Windows 10 'Creators' edition is nothing short of malware

Impetus

Win 10 Creators edition was pushed on to one my Dell workstations over the weekend - it self downloaded, and behaved like a Windows Update.

1). It deletes the system restore points, and switches off system restore - leaving the victim to turn it on again. Result you can't restore your pc to the last known good working condition - ie before 'creators edition' has foisted itself on one.

2) The workstation can't connect to any network - wireless or wired ethernet after this Microsoft malware attacked my system.

3) A Google search revals thousands of people who seem to have the same problems - or worse.

4) Dell business support have so far been unable to provide a fix - they are responsible for this OEM installation of Windows.

Microsoft has left an appalling mess, and made things worse by removing system restore points.

The European Union needs to make software developers financially liable to customers (either direct or via OEM) for problems like these. While no software is perfect - removing restoration points, changing restore settings, is product vandalism and MS should be liable for unlimited damages as a result of their rolling defective software out over their update system. Better still punative damages.

I have three ISP feeds, several other computers, and backups of data. But my main workstation has been rendered useless. Dell share the liability, because they should have tested the system (bought in the last year) with this version of windows - otherwise issued an email and a link to software to block the forced update, until it was tested and proven to work.

ItHurtsWhenIP

If you don't have images of your workstation, then you are being foolish relying on system restore to roll back OS updates.

If you suffered a malware attack or failed hard drives, system restore won't cut it.

Yes - it's terrible that M$FT have infected you - but proper backups are YOUR problem.

Impetus

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

If you don't have images of your workstation, then you are being foolish relying on system restore to roll back OS updates.

If you suffered a malware attack or failed hard drives, system restore won't cut it.

Yes - it's terrible that M$FT have infected you - but proper backups are YOUR problem.

I am calling Win 10 Creators malware, because it deletes restore points and switches off system restore. And in my case broke wifi and wired Ethernet connections on one machine. The only way I can get internet access is via USB mobile data, which even with 4.5G is slow and expensive for large volumes of data.

I have backups for my data x 4+ going back for many years. Drivers appear to have been released over the past few days to fix this issue - but in my case the 'fixes' do not fix the problem. I don't back up Windows or drivers - one shouldn't have to. Microsoft should not have deleted the pre update system restore point I set. Microsoft should have in fact set a system restore point. It seems to me that Microsoft is more concerned forcing the world into a one size fits all Windows to reduce their costs.

I have no problem with that, provided they do not stop one from going back to yesterday in terms of the software platform. The data is my responsibility - which I take care of. If they warned me that system restores were being dumped in the installation process, do you want to continue? - I would live with that. This is not a software bug. It is a deliberate decision by Microsoft.

One does not know if a total system image would be the answer either. Assuming one was able to restore from the image, the Windows Update would come into play and install creators edition again on the 'restored' system. Who knows there may even be 'root kit' type features installed in the new Windows to even prevent one doing that?

There is another issue I came across while investigating the problem. It seems to me that Creators Edition attempts to update the network drivers, (according to the log in the driver window), but did not succeed in my case becase I do not run systems as admin, and the update was done without admin sign-in. I was not asked to provide my admin password at any stage during the update. Microsoft is breaking its own authentication system. Which it does not run as securely as say Apple's equivalent does.

Microsoft update often instals stuff secretly - they don't even show on the Windows update log AFAICS. Nor do they require admin passwords.

Microsoft is a back door software developer - which puts it in the malware developer category in my books.

Dell do not seem to have the correct drivers on their system - even though some of the drivers have recent dates in some cases.

Appalling American incompetence, Messers Nadella and Dell.

Impetus

I think I found a solution to the problem this morning. I un-installed a Windows Update - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4032188/windows-10-update-kb4032188

Both WiFi and wired Ethernet now seem to work - after a re-boot. Touch wood.

One of the things this update purports to do is “Addressed issue where device drivers are not loading.”. I suspect this is the most likely cause?

The machine also had new drivers for Ethernet and WiFi and Airplane mode also installed yesterday - but they did not fix the issue.

Impetus

ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »

If you don't have images of your workstation, then you are being foolish relying on system restore to roll back OS updates.

If you suffered a malware attack or failed hard drives, system restore won't cut it.

Yes - it's terrible that M$FT have infected you - but proper backups are YOUR problem.

A further though occurred to me in relation to the legal risks of imaging an entire system, including software. The software on most systems is subject to dozens if not hundreds of license agreements, some of which restrict or prevent copying of the product in question.

Some software is copy-protected, so if you image that copy protected software, you may well be in breach of the DMCA, a US law put on the statute books there via industry lobbying (read corruption – ie law written in exchange for political donations etc). Eg in the DMCA case, you may be accused of using imaging to ‘get around’ copy protection during a recovery from disk image process.

So if you take a laptop into the US, and it is seized at the border (which is a not an infrequent occurrence in that part of the world – along with some other tyrannically run states), some expert they employ (or system) can determine that the hard drive(s) or silicon equivalent have been imaged.

The Irish Government needs to pass a five line act which states something along the lines of “Making back-up copies and/or system images for data security and recoverability purposes shall not be deemed to be a breach of any copyright law, or licence agreement purporting to restrict the system’s owner or authorized user from making copies or images of data or software installed on systems, even where copy protection systems are employed on such systems” Not that an Irish law would get you out of gaol in the US for imaging a laptop – but it would legalise system imaging and other forms of backup in data centres and similar.

Impetus

Apparently Microsoft yanked this patch from the system and issued a new one. http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-re-releases-windows-10-cumulative-update-kb4032188-517249.shtml

I tried it at 08h00 UTC 2017.08.02, and the patch disconnected my network access again. Had to uninstall it again.

Someone else pointed out to me that I have no control over windows updates, so the machine might self-install a defective 'patch' again.

As I have said, the EU needs to make Microsoft financially liable for software defects - especially this type of matter.

LoLth

the issue of licensing and copies has been settled for years. Backups are legal copies of any and all software and data that you are licensed to use/own/install . I believe this was extended to cover music being copied for private backup and gave rise to the joke about having an "off site backup" facility in a friend's house. of course this doesn't apply for streaming media or services that provide a legitimate backup solution as part of the media or application such as Play music or kindle.

if that were not the case every business would be in breach of their copyright agreements.

good job finding the defective patch.

testicles

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Impetus

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This route says it will uninstall your applications, and does not specify that it will take you back to the Windows that was on the machine before Creative Update.

I don't propose to waste my time with this route. I see the https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4032188/windows-10-update-kb4032188 has re-installed as expected. Yet it does not now appear on the uninstall an update list. So you (MS) have locked me out of the internet on that machine.

Please fix immediately......MS

testicles

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Impetus

LoLth wrote: »

the issue of licensing and copies has been settled for years. Backups are legal copies of any and all software and data that you are licensed to use/own/install . I believe this was extended to cover music being copied for private backup and gave rise to the joke about having an "off site backup" facility in a friend's house. of course this doesn't apply for streaming media or services that provide a legitimate backup solution as part of the media or application such as Play music or kindle.

if that were not the case every business would be in breach of their copyright agreements.

good job finding the defective patch.

You are obviously not a lawyer. The settlement of issues relating to copyright relate to individual jurisdictions. And yes, I am suggesting that many businesses who image systems may be in breach of some software licenses - unless each individual license agreement permits the company/user to make a backup copy/image and the software, and the software company holds the software copier harmless, ideally giving them an indemnity, for any breach of copy protection, which is enshrined in the DMCA. Do you have this type of agreement on file for each software system you make an image of? I suspect not. Many software companies (ie non key) would probably make more money sueing a company for imaging than they do in licensing payments. It is a nasty world out there.

Impetus

I can see this case turning into another Apple -v- EU case - in this case Dell is in a far weaker position in relation to sales in Ireland (than Apple on sales in the EU). Nobody is paying me any fees to expose thie entire issue. So fix it Dell, while the going is good. I just want a working computer that I paid about 5k for less than two years ago. And I have paid a 3 year fee for support from your company. I have received almost zero support so far. I have no longing for 'creators update' or anything else - just turn the clock back for me to less than a week ago when the 5k€ machine worked.

I have no malice against Dell and have used their machines since the 1980s. But they all worked properly over their life cycle up to now.

If I started making electric cars, a la Tesla, and there was a problem caused by software from company xyz - I would expect Tesla to fix it. I have no contract with xyz - any more than I have a contract with a spark-plug manufacturer in an old fashioned car or the software developer who designed the intelligenct cruise control in my German car. And I have no contract with Microsoft in this case. Dell allowed MS to mess with my system, to my detriment - making it useless for Wifi or wired Ethernet internet access.

Impetus

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Please see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104265971&postcount=12

LoLth

Nope, not a lawyer. So possibly wrong in my assumption that DMCA covered the deliberate act of bypassing DRM or encryption for the purposes of illegally copying software or media - backup for system security purposes does not in any way impact DRM, its still intact and encrypted is still encrypted.

Its also not an illegal copy under section 117 of the US copyright act and under Copyright Act of 2000 in Ireland which has a stipulation in section 80 for backup of computer programs for archival and system restore purposes.

not a lawyer but familiar enough through experience to know that these measures exist.

as for your assertion that no-one is paying you any fees to bring this issue to our attention is a bit strange...do you think you should be paid or we should offer to pay you?

Impetus

LoLth wrote: »

as for your assertion that no-one is paying you any fees to bring this issue to our attention is a bit strange...do you think you should be paid or we should offer to pay you?

I am merely stating that I am an innocent victim, and declaring that nobody is paying me for dealing with these legal or computer security matters. et I am not giving advice for consideration.

Impetus

I arrived in Nice this evening, with two Dell PCs - one the problem PC 7510, and another PC that is older but up to new worked without a problem.

When I booted up the older system, it had apparently been a re-boot after a patch I did not ask for this morning, which attempted to disconnect me for any internet access. It also changed system settings - eg from European date/time to American date/time.

Anyway after restoring, I am back able to connect. I am getting to a point of thinking that there is a conspiracy of incompetence or otherwise in Microsoft, rolling out these 'patches'.

I have Apple and Linux machines at my destination, and shall not hesitate to devote the necessary resources - financial and otherwise, to get Microsoft to fix the computer which cost me about EUR 5'000 less than two years ago.