What to provide tenants for a new letting?

rounders

So I am nearly finished refurbishing a property and will be letting it out. I am wondering to what extent should I kit it out? for example, providing washing machines, plates, kettles, pots and plates etc.?

dudara

Under legislation, you have to provide the following

Regulation 7 requires private landlords to provide access to:

A washing machine
A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard

They must also provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, to include the following:
4-ring hob with oven and grill
Cooker hood or extractor fan
Fridge and freezer, or a fridge-freezer
Microwave oven
Kitchen cupboards that are suitable and adequate for storing food
Sink with mains water supply, hot water and draining area

So yes to the washing machine, and white goods.

Kitchenware, delph and cutlery - I think a lot of tenants would have those anyway, I personally wouldn't provide them for as (a) they will get broken or lost anyway and (b) it's more sanitary for tenants to bring their own.

rounders

dudara wrote: »

Under legislation, you have to provide the following



So yes to the washing machine, and white goods.

Kitchenware, delph and cutlery - I think a lot of tenants would have those anyway, I personally wouldn't provide them for as (a) they will get broken or lost anyway and (b) it's more sanitary for tenants to bring their own.

Perfect thanks. I have a fridge freezer cooker oven and dishwasher. Just didn't know to what extent I needed to provide. Thanks!

I always expected cutlery, pots and pans, plates etc to be provided (and they always were. I also have a friend who moved into a newly refurbished property recently and they were very annoyed to discover they have to go out and buy all this type of stuff as they expected it to be provided as it always had before.

Victor

rounders wrote: »

plates, kettles, pots and plates etc.?

If providing these, realise that they break under normal wear and tear. Don't expect them back.

For beds, provide a mattress protector each (and maybe some spare), but nothing else. Wardrobes and chests of drawers desired, but not required.

Provide cleanable, robust furniture, but not table lamps, wall decorations, etc.

Do not provide TVs or other electronic goods.

For carpets, go with mid-colour patterns. Light colours are impossible to keep clean.

Provide a shower curtain, medicine cabinet and toilet brush.

For short-to-medium term premium lets, review the above.

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

I always expected cutlery, pots and pans, plates etc to be provided (and they always were. I also have a friend who moved into a newly refurbished property recently and they were very annoyed to discover they have to go out and buy all this type of stuff as they expected it to be provided as it always had before.

Were these items in the inventory? Fair enough in a holiday letting, but not in a long-term letting.

Mrs OBumble

dudara wrote: »

Kitchenware, delph and cutlery - .... (b) it's more sanitary for tenants to bring their own.

Sanitary? Surely most people know to wash their dishes .

If the rental is let as furnished, i would expect a minimum amount of these to be provided say one cup, plate, bowl, knife, fork and spoon for each bed space. Plus a couple of saucepans, a frypan, a microwave bowl and a few kitchen implements, a couple of kitchen knives and a chopping board. And a kettle and toaster.

None of these if it's let unfurnished.

James 007

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sanitary? Surely most people know to wash their dishes .

If the rental is let as furnished, i would expect a minimum amount of these to be provided say one cup, plate, bowl, knife, fork and spoon for each bed space. Plus a couple of saucepans, a frypan, a microwave bowl and a few kitchen implements, a couple of kitchen knives and a chopping board. And a kettle and toaster.

None of these if it's let unfurnished.

Not required under legislation. I usually provide everything including these, TV, blankets, sheets, dryer, extra seats for the garden only if I can achieve a rental gain, it only makes sense this way.

PhoenixParker

As a former tenant please for the love of God provide the minimum. For many reasons from preferring the quality and decor of the stuff I'll buy myself to the fact that every landlord considers a different set of appliances and delph "necessary".

Landlord 1 provides great saucepans but no frying pan or toaster. Two years later landlord 2 provides two crappy saucepans but a great frying pan . . . It's simpler and less wasteful from a tenant pov to just buy what you want and need yourself.

It's a nuisance on move out trying to sort out wear and tear and who owns what as well.

From a landlords point of view this makes the most sense too. You're liable for repair and maintenance on anything provided and small stuff is hassle for no gain.

Do everyone a favour and leave the cupboards bare.

jamesthepeach

Anything over and above the minimum will cost you more money in the long run. You can only increase the rent 4% a year. This may change to 2% or 1% if they feel like it next year and you will be stuck.

If I were you I would provide the minimum and no more. Not even a bed or a chair or a cup. People say they want unfurnished. Test that. and then if you get no takers put in the furniture, but spend as little as possible on it because you will not be allowed to make it back.

Think about it. Unfurnished and you have no wear and tear, no replacing of kettles, mattresses, sofas, curtains etc. Tenant will never complain about the furniture or ask you to store it etc.

The_Conductor

Concur with the others here- the bare minimum makes most sense- and under no circumstances should sheets/blankets etc be provided.

If its an option at all- I'd let unfurnished- and let the tenant get their own furniture/delf/softgoods- less chance of anything going wrong- and less wear and tear.

Graham

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

i would expect a minimum amount of these to be provided say one cup, plate, bowl, knife, fork and spoon for each bed space. Plus a couple of saucepans, a frypan, a microwave bowl and a few kitchen implements, a couple of kitchen knives and a chopping board. And a kettle and toaster.

It probably depends what market your particular rental unit is targeting. For anything above the starter-rental or short-term sector I suspect most tenants would rather you didn't leave a heap of assorted kitchen junk that they have to box up and store until the end of the tenancy.

rounders

Thanks for all the responses. So would everyone be in ageement about leaving it unfurnished? Already have most of the kitchen white goods but aside from that the house is unfurnished. Its a house about 15 minutes from Cork city centre. IT could get €1200 a month but was aiming for a €1000 (easier to manage expectations of the tenant if you dont charge them to highest you can get)

My question is, would I have to adjust my price for unfurnished?

Graham

I wouldn't adjust the price for unfurnished to be honest, advertise and see how you get on.

You may find the market you're targeting prefers furnished accommodation, maybe advertise as available furnished or unfurnished and see what the responses are like.

I also would look for the full market rent, RPZ rules may restrict you rebalancing at some point in the future.

Samuel T. Cogley

It's not easier to manage by charging under market value. What you can do though if you're feeling generous is give the tenants an Xmas bonus fir no claims during the year. Some people on this forum have given significant amounts for a 'no call' year. If you're in a RPZ you could significantly reduce the value of your property by locking in a lower rent.

1874

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sanitary? Surely most people know to wash their dishes .

If the rental is let as furnished, i would expect a minimum amount of these to be provided say one cup, plate, bowl, knife, fork and spoon for each bed space. Plus a couple of saucepans, a frypan, a microwave bowl and a few kitchen implements, a couple of kitchen knives and a chopping board. And a kettle and toaster.

None of these if it's let unfurnished.

People complain on one hand about the quality of furnishings but then dont want to provide them themselves!? There is no expectations to provide anything outside the legislation, cant be had both ways.
Thankfully Im outside of this all now, but I laugh/roll my eyes when I see such a list, a microwave bowl??? wtf is that? certainly not a kettle and toaster. When I was renting, I did provide delf, utensils, but they either ended up missing or inexplicably damaged beyond what I was capable of myself. Kettles, toasters I did too, but in the end realised it wasn't worth it. I blame unrealistic expectations based on the whole set up being lob-sided and backed by legislation.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

As a former tenant please for the love of God provide the minimum. For many reasons from preferring the quality and decor of the stuff I'll buy myself to the fact that every landlord considers a different set of appliances and delph "necessary".

Landlord 1 provides great saucepans but no frying pan or toaster. Two years later landlord 2 provides two crappy saucepans but a great frying pan . . . It's simpler and less wasteful from a tenant pov to just buy what you want and need yourself.

It's a nuisance on move out trying to sort out wear and tear and who owns what as well.

From a landlords point of view this makes the most sense too. You're liable for repair and maintenance on anything provided and small stuff is hassle for no gain.

Do everyone a favour and leave the cupboards bare.

It would make more sense from everyones point of view, but this is Ireland. A property should be allowed to be bare, always talk of why we should be like Europe when it comes to paying extra, but nothing when it comes to availing of any of the benefits and to top it have ridiculous legislation about minimum equipment. MiThere should have always been 3 standards of furnishings, 1. Unfurnished 2. partial 3. fully furnished, each should have had a list of what is required in that, Id expand on that further but it isnt something that exists so no point, but it could really suit longterm renting for people not only to have their own stuff, but to take it with them, If anything it would do away with poor quality provided furniture, wear & tear arguments, the majority of deposit retention complaints. A good example of how cackhanded the legislation is, a bedsit type/sized place that doesnt have a 4 ring hob is illegal, WHY would a bedsit require a 4 ring hob?? a 2 ring would suffice. People should be able to provide their own white goods, there'd be no wear and tear issues or complaints about quality.

I never thought about not providing a bed or mattress, but in hindsight no tenant I ever came across ever wanted to provide their own, but they would ask for a new mattress, a reasonable bed is cheap enough but a good mattress is less so, and they would not be willing to provide such a thing themselves.

Victor

What to provide tenants for a new letting?

Is this a completely new property / formerly owner occupied property? If not, is it a genuine new letting?

jamesthepeach

Try unfurnished for the max you can get. Remember if you choose a lower rent than the max you are locked into that low level as your base forever.

Advertise it unfurnished for 1200. If you get no takers then reconsider.

But always be going for the max price with the least maintenance. It's necessary with the interference in the property market. Look at all the landlords who were giving below market rate to good tenants and how they all got fcuked over by the government.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

Were these items in the inventory? Fair enough in a holiday letting, but not in a long-term letting.

Not sure if there was any inventory, the person only realised the day they moved in that cutlery, plates, glasses, pots and pans etc were not provided and had to go out buying them something they had never experienced before in a long term rental in Ireland (of which they have had many). They were not in the least but happy as they had no interest in buying this stuff themselves.

I also have rented in a number of places and know a lot of others who have too in many different places and don't think a single person I know or myself had to provide these things. As an example another friend rented a new apartment first letting a few months back and every single kitchen utensil, piece of cutlery, glassware etc were provided (and high quality ones too).

1874

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

Not sure if there was any inventory, the person only realised the day they moved in that cutlery, plates, glasses, pots and pans etc were not provided and had to go out buying them something they had never experienced before in a long term rental in Ireland (of which they have had many).

I also have rented in a number of places and know a lot of others who have too in many different places and don't think a single person I know or myself had to provide these things. As an example another friend rented a new apartment first letting a few months back and every single kitchen utensil, piece of cutlery, glassware etc were provided (and high quality ones too).

I'll hazard a guess that most places did provide stuff like this before, but now maybe only higher end places will provided these (but dont have to). Thank the legislation, people realise they will get no benefit for providing or doing anything extra. For anyone that thinks vulture funds will do a better/different job, have a look at a recent example of residents are being told to vacate an apartment block in weeks!! after they tried to increase rents already last year, or where another tried to charge extra for hot water!!!

The_Conductor

rounders wrote: »

My question is, would I have to adjust my price for unfurnished?

Recent rentals in Cork and Galway- would suggest that you can actually charge a premium- rather than give a discount, for renting an unfurnished unit. There is significant demand- particularly from expats, for non-furnished units, which enable them to use their own furniture. There have been a couple of threads in this forum over the last month (from memory- all were Americans proposing to move here- with their own furniture)- where posters were very interested in unfurnished units.

_Dara_

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

I always expected cutlery, pots and pans, plates etc to be provided (and they always were. I also have a friend who moved into a newly refurbished property recently and they were very annoyed to discover they have to go out and buy all this type of stuff as they expected it to be provided as it always had before.

All that stuff that was in your various rentals was more than likely just detritus left behind by former housemates. A lot of people leave everything behind. In my experience, very rarely would a landlord provide cutlery, crockery and kitchenwares. And I was never annoyed at having to buy that stuff as you can bring it with you when you move. It's pretty much a one-off expense, with the occasional need to replace the odd item. Expecting a landlord to buy that stuff is just wanting to be babied. Your friend's experience of those things not being provide would be the norm. Why would a landlord provide that stuff that everyone should have themselves anyway?

_Dara_

Totally agree with PhoenixParker too, I much prefer to buy my own stuff as it's to my taste and exactly what I want.

rounders

rounders wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. So would everyone be in ageement about leaving it unfurnished? Already have most of the kitchen white goods but aside from that the house is unfurnished. Its a house about 15 minutes from Cork city centre. IT could get €1200 a month but was aiming for a €1000 (easier to manage expectations of the tenant if you dont charge them to highest you can get)

My question is, would I have to adjust my price for unfurnished?

What ever you do, under no circumstances rent it for any less than the absolute max you can get. It's extremely poor business to do otherwise especially as you will be stuck on low rent with limited rent increases.

Remember you are running a business and your aim should be to maxamise profits.

rounders

rounders wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. So would everyone be in ageement about leaving it unfurnished? Already have most of the kitchen white goods but aside from that the house is unfurnished. Its a house about 15 minutes from Cork city centre. IT could get €1200 a month but was aiming for a €1000 (easier to manage expectations of the tenant if you dont charge them to highest you can get)

My question is, would I have to adjust my price for unfurnished?

What ever you do, under no circumstances rent it for any less than the absolute max you can get. It's extremely poor business management to do otherwise especially as you will be stuck on low rent with limited rent increases.

Remember you are running a business and your aim should be to maxamise profits.

_Dara_ wrote: »

Your friend's experience of those things not being provide would be the norm. Why would a landlord provide that stuff that everyone should have themselves anyway?

It is without doubt the norm to provide these things, as I said I've never come across them not being provided and that's across a lot of people in a lot of different rentals. Even that friend alone has rented in about 5 different places over the last few years with this stuff provided in all.

mikeybrennan

Leave them a fire blanket near cooker whether it's mandatory or not-i'm not sure if it is

jamesthepeach

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

It is without doubt the norm to provide these things, as I said I've never come across them not being provided and that's across a lot of people in a lot of different rentals.

It's Simon's new world we live in now and.hes planted the seeds of change. And not for the better

Michael D Not Higgins

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Leave them a fire blanket near cooker whether it's mandatory or not-i'm not sure if it is

A fire blanket is mandatory, as well as carbon monoxide detectors if applicable. These were added in the last version of the minimum standards which came into effect last month.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

_Dara_

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

It is without doubt the norm to provide these things, as I said I've never come across them not being provided and that's across a lot of people in a lot of different rentals.

It isn't. In houseshares I've been in, all the crockery and kitchenware was just a mix of stuff people had left behind. In apartment lets, if you're lucky, there might be the bare bones of stuff but usually there isn't. I've lived in eleven different places and this was how it was everywhere. And it's the same for everyone I know. The landlord has no obligation to provide this stuff and why would they? As I said, it's a one-off big expense. €150 will get you most of what you need. Hardly much money in the grand scheme of things. I had this expense as a student at age 19. But the stuff is portable. What is in it for the landlord to provide things that people can easily bring with them from their last rental? I can't believe your friend was shocked that he might have to go out and buy some pots and pans and crockery. Great adulting there. I'm in my 30s and going out to the first big homewares shop is in mists of time for me, it's so long ago.

Graham

Pablo Millions Windbag wrote: »

It is without doubt the norm to provide these things, as I said I've never come across them not being provided and that's across a lot of people in a lot of different rentals. Even that friend alone has rented in about 5 different places over the last few years with this stuff provided in all.

I'd agree, it's fairly normal for such items to be provided.

I don't know why, habit maybe.

In my experience it's completely unnecessary as one of the first things a tenant does is take the inevitably mismatched rag-tag bunch of fairly depressing chipped crockery, bent forks, burnt saucepans, tesco value glassware and associated detritus and put it in a box somewhere never to see the light of day until moving out day when the landlord will pay an agent to come and count it for the inventory!

Bass Reeves

I think more and more rentals will be unfurnished in the future. It may well go as that only thinks provided will the statutory minimum. Less hassle for landlord and may be easier to get a secure tenant. With the change in legislation landords will now have to maximize rental increases. When statutory rental reviews happen landlords will not have to increase rent as over time if they fail they may well be tied to lower rents longterm. There is no gaurantee that the recent change in legislation to gauranteed minimum 6 year leases could be changed to 10 or even higher over the next 3-4 years.

Landlords have to now think like professional landlords and make sure that increases are carried out at statutory reviews to protect there investments.

rounders

Victor wrote: »

Is this a completely new property / formerly owner occupied property? If not, is it a genuine new letting?

Bought the house in a bad state. Completely gutted it and refurbished it. Put in full heating system etc.