Near Misses Thread Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

5uspect

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611551#Comment_119611551

The Rules of the Road say otherwise:

Signalling does not give you the right of way.

Page 53

When turning left, all drivers, especially drivers of heavy goods vehicles, must watch out for cyclists and motorcyclists going ahead or turning.

On left turns, watch out for cyclists and mopeds close to the kerb in front of you or coming up on your left. Do not overtake a cyclist as you approach a junction if you are turning left, as the cyclist might be continuing straight ahead.

seanino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611506#Comment_119611506

You were in the right in IMO . If that car was turning right and another car was approaching on the right lane, they would not turn as the approaching car would more than likely crash into them and do damage. Just because you're on a bike and he can mow you down doesn't mean he should turn left. Looks like you were clipping along nicely too so why should you have to stop because he is impatient. You have right of way and you're at his car when he is turning. He should wait to turn into your lane when its safe to do so.

5uspect

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611711#Comment_119611711

I was not overtaking, I continued straight in my lane, they are the one making a manoeuvre to leave their lane and pulled on on me. Once we both stopped I continued in my lane.

5uspect

I was in control of my speed at all times. I came to a stop easily when they started to come in on me. The driver must take care in this situation and they simply didn’t look.

5uspect

But I'm not tailgating— I'm in a segregated cycle lane right up to the junction so that makes absolutely no sense.

I have right of way to continue in my lane and I intend do so while keeping an eye on the car (and the UPS van parked illegally ahead). The driver, which came past me at the previous junction (so should know I'm there) is responsible for watching out when they turn. I am in control of my bike and do not need to slam on the brakes. This is a classic left hook by a driver that is clearly not paying attention.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612484#Comment_119612484

You're not in a traffic lane, you're on a cycle track. The driver shouldn't have turned across you, but you don't have the right to overtake on the left if someone:

"has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle," (https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057136579/irish-cycling-legislation/p10)

I've been on the lookout anywhere where a cycle track is defined as a lane in legislation, but I have yet to find one.

Dr_Colossus

There was no expectation of the driver completing the movement to the left (never mind a reasonable expectation) before the cyclist. They were of similar speed so driver should have waited a few seconds.

Good question with regards a cycle track being defined as a lane in terms of legislation. They are more commonly known as cycle lanes with a track to me being more something off road or on a greenway. I don't know an answer but if not then they should just close all cycle lanes since they offer no legal protection to cyclists and thus make them a danger as in the video above.

Had no cycle lane existed then the cyclist would have been in the driving lane and have flexibility to overtake on the right once the driver started to indicate and veer left.

seanino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612733#Comment_119612733

The driver has not an expectation of turning before the cyclist has overtaken the vehicle. Cyclist is practically at the vehicle which means the car will hit the cyclist if they turn. If the cycle lane segregation was not there that lad driving would have been in the cycle lane before the left turn. If Im turning left in a car unless Im well ahead of the cyclist I wait for them to go past otherwise you risk hitting them.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119615886#Comment_119615886

I don't know why any of that is relevant?

Imagine you're driving behind someone, and you move out - still behind them - to overtake them (on the right). They put on the right hand indicator - do you proceed with the overtake?

The onus is on the overtaker - whether on the left or right - to ensure they do so safely and legally. The overtaken should of course be wary about not causing an accident particularly to a more vulnerable road user, but the primary responsibility lies with the person overtaking. Read the law I linked, it's very clear that the cyclist should not have overtaken on the left in this situation.

I'm of the belief that the law is an ass in this situation, but that's what it says.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612913#Comment_119612913

The law doesn't say anything about 'completing' a movement to the left, it says 'executing'. To me, that's the start of the turn, not the end.

seanino

They are not driving behind them, they are cycling to the left in a separate cycle lane. Maybe if no segregated cycle lane there you could possibly argue that point.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617700#Comment_119617700

Show me the law that says that cycle track is a separate traffic lane. As I said above, I've looked and I can't find it. It's not a traffic lane in the eyes of the law as far as I can see.

seanino

Im sure there is none otherwise you would have found it but its irrelevant to the original point of whether the cyclist could drive on left of car before it overtook. Read the highlighted part below, that car could not move to the left before the bike overtook it unless its ok to drive into cyclists 😂

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

• Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it
• Is stationary for the purpose of allowing a passenger to alight or board the vehicle
• Is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading

seanino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618693#Comment_119618693

Well said

DoraDelite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119621111#Comment_119621111

Talking about blind spots annoys me as it's an excuse for inattentive driving that gets thrown around too often. There's no such thing as a blind spot if you're looking, it's the responsibility of the driver to pay attention, use mirrors, shoulder check when changing lanes etc. If that driver was actually paying attention, they would have clocked the cyclist further back and noted they may be in the lane beside them (and subsequently paid extra attention when making the left turn). Driving isn't about just paying attention at the point of potential conflict it's about assessing everything at all times to reduce any risk of a poor decision that can lead to a collision.

For example, if I am driving and taking the left filter at the criminal courts (coming from Islandbridge), I've already observed if there are likely to be any cyclists before I've even passed the lights at the bus garage, then I spend any time sitting in traffic checking my mirrors for any cyclists that may have come out from Phoenix Park. Then mirror, shoulder check, mirror and turn. No blind spot exists.

buffalo

I posted in the legislation thread about why you shouldn't expect a driver to yield to you while you're on a cycle track: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624396/#Comment_119624396

seanino

The blind spot argument is absolutely nonsensical. Imagine using that as an excuse for crossing into another lane and crashing into other motorist, cyclist, etc.

Driver: "They were in my blind spot your honour"

Judge: "Case dismissed"

😂

Also that L driver would fail his driving test if they did that. Check mirror, signal and move when clear. He did the signal part - that was it.

seanino

This is more turning rather than forwards or backwards, not sure what you mean there. Id use all mirrors and look around if possible also or keep looking in the mirrors if unsure as if you glance quickly and then move you can miss things - no blind spots then.

Agreed cyclist did slow down or was ready to, which is what I'd try and do myself - be ready for it. Drivers underestimate how fast cyclists can go. A road bike can go as fast if not faster then a car in a built up area like ranelagh.

seanino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625042#Comment_119625042

Sounds like you're missing the point completely yourself. See my last reply where I stated that the cyclist was in control - ready to slow as he anticipated the driver might left hook him. That said - blind spot is a nonsensical argument whether its a motorist or cyclist. Most of the discussion so far is about who's to blame - were you asleep.

seanino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625090#Comment_119625090

Your'e not assigning blame but then do with the cyclist 😁 Ok anyway we'll agree to disagree as you dont sound like backing down from your blind spot in cycle lane "theory"...

DoraDelite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625517#Comment_119625517

You can talk about no blame all you like (for what it's worth I think the cyclist had enough awareness to avoid the collision) but the reality of it is the driver's complete inattention to the situation - being in an urban area crossing a cycling lane where there is a high possibility of cycle traffic - is the one that can get someone else injured or killed. If there had been a cyclist further along side the car and not in a position to see an indicator, they would have wiped them out.

Also only the driver of this car knows where their supposed blind spot is, we can only guess as we're not the ones sitting in it and not looking. The higher degree of responsibility is with the driver in this instance and if they can't handle that then they shouldn't be driving, too much acceptance on the road of this type of driving.

seanino

You can see how you like and leaving the patronising tone aside - your blind spot opinion is incorrect as has been pointed out by several people already. Do a quick google on blind spots driving tests etc. It's the drivers responsibility... Not difficult to find out.

DoraDelite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626823#Comment_119626823

Even worse then that the fully licenced driver/instructor with them didn't check either...

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638819#Comment_119638819

No, there are plenty of specific laws about cycle lanes and when you can drive in them or park in them, but drivers do not have to yield to a cyclist behind them, as far as I could tell (I'm not a lawyer!).

However, I saw this post by @GM228 and they sound like they know what they're talking about more than I do: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636056/#Comment_119636056

But the area to concentrate on is yielding right of way to traffic in another lane, it is true that a "traffic lane" for the purposes of traffic offences is very narrowly construed due to the way they are defined under the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 (and also in the Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997).

However, under common law S8 (8) of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997 has a far broader application, this common law position dates back to the Ex parte Lewis (1888) 21 Q.B.D. 191 case (and even further to time immemorial) and the legal principles of pass and repass on a public highway (which for those who do not know is the common law basis for the right of use and enjoyment of public roads), the legal description of pass and repass was determined in 1888 and held to be a "right for all Her Majesty's subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance" - in other words without limit or interference, since time immemorial use of the roads has been an equal right of way for all road users subject to not limiting or interfering with someone who is lawfully on the road, or in such a circumstance where lawfully already present in a lane (not a "traffic lane" as defined in regulations, but a lane in the ordinary sense).

Once you are lawfully in a lane (the courts will hold this to mean any lane including bus lanes and cycle tracks) other traffic must yield right of way to you when merging into your or crossing through your lane as otherwise they go against the very right of use of the road under common law and the principles of pass and repass of a public road.

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638960#Comment_119638960

Had the same on the quays from a taxi driver, who made contact with the rear of my bike when I moved slightly rightwards to go around a pothole. I had video footage from a rear camera. Garda in Pearse Street said because the actual point of contact was off-camera (below the frame), there wasn't anything he could really do. 🤷

DoraDelite

What's as bad is some of the comments under that video. Some of those people are also "sharing" the road with people on bikes and have the attitude that they should get out of the way and how dare they be there stopping someone in a hurry from going somewhere in their car. A dangerous mix and is the reason there's some many incidents like this on a daily basis. I don't run a camera but I would have the same experience at least once every second or third trip.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119640983#Comment_119640983

Is this it?

https://twitter.com/majorvonwaldron/status/1572182633903267842?t=e1HcnGJOvWstafFAOIj62g&s=19

Seth Brundle

He does seem to get more than an average number of close passes

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119647610#Comment_119647610

He seems to attract the 2-3 weekly ones every day though. As weepsie says though, he does contribute towards some of them (that said his road position or anything else does not justify dangerous driving)

Seth Brundle

Fu*ks sake! Another incident between a truck driver and a cyclist, this time in Celbridge @ 8am this morning ...

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1572913267894280198?s=20&t=YOnHHZ7PuvrPWt3YreE5kw

Seth Brundle

^^ I'd be curious to see the video of that one

Seth Brundle

Thankfully the young fella seems to be ok...

https://twitter.com/revoltingbikers/status/1574414183021613056

Skrynesaver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654986#Comment_119654986

Just an honest lad wanting to do his turn in the wind ;)

Dr_Colossus

Good video showing the stupidity and impatience on the roads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUON6Al-sqg

Dr_Colossus

Same as below from a few weeks ago, hardly same car, 141 silver prius? Rang TrafficWatch and reported the driver at the time and also called Bridewell station a few times but was unable to get past the operator so email the station also but still haven't heard anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679837#Comment_119679837

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558282#Comment_119558282

Idleater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682783#Comment_119682783

That happened to me years ago. I was filtering along St. John's road back when it was two driving lanes. Some junkie popped out from between two cars right in front of me and we both ended up on the road. Though he was the one who got up and was looking over me saying "asreye aaaaalllriiiiiih buuuuud?"

Anyway, we were both fine, bike was minded by someone from Heuston station until I collected it later that day.

hesker

Deleted

RobertFoster

something in the air about stupid overtakes

Seems to be. Not a near miss I suppose, but I had an aggressive driver try to bully me off the road on Saturday.

I had pulled up centre lane behind a taxi and another car to wait for these lights in Finglas to turn green. A driver came up behind me and started beeping for some reason. I didn't even bother turning around to see what was beeping.

Lights go green and I move off, beeping continues. This blue jeepy thing overtakes me (more beeping) and then cuts back into the bus lane in front of me making some hand gestures only he could understand.

He'd managed to get around me within 100 metres of the junction so I wasn't delaying him. Plus it was ~11 am, the bus lane was in operation.

Shows how a "perfectly good" cycle lane (which is over 12 years old at this stage 🤯) can cause problems even if you're not using it.

connundrum

Right, thats it, I've done it. I've bought a helmet camera because it is now at the stage where I'm in the middle of 2/3 near misses and 'light hits' a week.

I commute between UCD and DCU daily, through the city centre and it seems inevitable in the area between the 5 Lamps (northside) and the RDS (southside) that I'll be driven into the footpath, side swiped, near-missed or roared at. I'm tired of it, but will not go back to car/moped travel.

Is there someone we are lobbying to have a reporting facility available for incidents? I'm kind of late to the cycling commuting community, but can see myself becoming very active.

Today's incident was quite amazing. On Portland Row there was a car parked (in the bike lane) and as I approached it a taxi pulled in ahead of me and stopped adjacent to the car, literally hemming me in. I knocked on the window and shouted/gestured to the driver to move forward/backward to let me go. He refused, saying that his pickup was in the house we were sitting outside. A few more choice words ensued, and he was insisting that I could get out past him despite the fact that my handlebars would've taken his and the adjacent car's wing mirrors off. More shouting and then I eventually got off the bike and lifted it over the top of both cars. What the actual F like. I, admittedly came in a bit hot, but his first move was to pen me in and not look anywhere around him?!

Anyway.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701682#Comment_119701682

Do you have Netflix? That new series Dahmer is pretty good, and I'm sure it'd be a damn sight more entertaining than what you're at here

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701732#Comment_119701732

How far back does traffic have to be behind you before you're allowed indicate and move lanes?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702091#Comment_119702091

A garda and a judge would disagree with you.

You're new here but your posts tonight do see quite misinformed.

buffalo

I went over the Wicklow Gap today, playing leapfrog with a lovely vintage car and accompanying large white van providing mechanical assistance. I don't know what was wrong, but they kept pulling in every couple of kilometres to tinker with the engine.

I hadn't seen them in a while as I approached a blind summit in the road. The roof of an oncoming car appears as I hear an engine behind me - the vintage car overtakes with very little room to spare. "oof, a bit tight", I think. I had stronger thoughts as the mechanic's van barrelled through straight afterwards, forcing the oncoming driver to come to a complete stop.

The icing on the cake was the pair of them pulling in once again about 200 metres up the road. 🙄 

Seth Brundle

^^^ registration required

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722679#Comment_119722679

Video seems to be set to private so can't view

5uspect

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722613#Comment_119722613

https://old.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/xzqx2o/scum_knocking_down_cyclist/

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119731356#Comment_119731356

That verdict is one of the worst I've seen in a long time. Reduced to basically nothing presumably because of the mitigating circumstances mentioned, although what they are is anyone's guess based on the news article I read: basically his father (a 51+ year old's father) died shortly after the incident...so **** what. It's not often I get annoyed about things like this but this is a big one, because something similar happened me before in Blanch years ago.

eclipsechaser

https://gfycat.com/secondhandkeyeel

With sound for full effect. Glad I didn't have the little one on the back.

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733961#Comment_119733961

Some clatter, impressed to managed to stay upright. Were there much "afters", not sure I've have held the cool in that situation and would have waited or looped back.

eclipsechaser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734010#Comment_119734010

Yeah, I was lucky to stay up. No afters. I stopped a few metres further up just to compose myself as my legs had gone a bit wobbly from the fright. The very kind cyclist behind stopped to check I was okay. No interaction from the driver. I did wait, expecting them to check on me but my back video shows they took an immediate right turn instead. I presume they dropped the passenger on the other side of the road (where there's a luas stop) and then drove off. I did hear the driver scream at the passenger not to open the door as it happened but it was too late. It wasn't malicious but obviously wreckless. Hopefully a lesson learned for them although they really should have checked rather than driving away.

I had a terrible experience on that road last month, which prompted me to put the cameras back on the bike. A driver did a close pass laying on the horn and then a deliberate closer pass further up the road in wet conditions. That one was terrifying. Again, I'm just glad my kid wasn't on the back.