Estate agent tactics

starmc14

First time, single buyer, just out bid on house #3.
Live in a town in the West of Ireland and one particular estate agent franchise has the monopoly on the market so cannot be avoided.

Was bidding on a house up to today. As of Monday it was me and one other person bidding. The other person increased their bid by €500. Agent rings me to ask what I want to do. I go €1k more. Agent says he is calling the vendor and is recommending closing out and that he will call me tomorrow (Tuesday).
Low and behold no phonecall.

Call the office today and he was out. Calls me back 20mins later. Apparently the person I was bidding against couldn't match my offer but a 3rd party has stepped in and put an offer of €2k more than my final offer yesterday. I asked why wasn't I contacted to be told that he called me about 6 times yesterday and left voicemails for me to contact him. I have no missed calls or messages and told him this. He said impossible as his office were trying to get me all day.

He goes if I bid another €2k it should seal the deal. I refuse to as I genuinely am at my upper limit. I get the impression it was a rouse to get more for the seller. Am I kidding myself in that the new bidder is possibly a ghost and it is a tactic to make a minimum price for the vendor? My last bid was €11k over the original asking price.

So disheartened by the whole process. Impossible as a sole purchaser.

LirW

Hold tight and see what happens. Could easily be that he just tries getting more out of you, wouldn't be surprised if you get a call asking if you're still interested because said 3rd party withdrew the offer. 
Can also be that it's genuine, then there's nothing you can do but keep looking.

eeguy

Is there any way to contact the seller directly and cut out the middle man?

Singer73

Would be interesting if you get a call and then you roll back 1k and see what happens

starmc14

eeguy wrote:

Is there any way to contact the seller directly and cut out the middle man?

Tried this on another house with the same agent and it didn't end well. Agent refused to deal with me for a month 😞

mloc123

starmc14 wrote: »

Tried this on another house with the same agent and it didn't end well. Agent refused to deal with me for a month 😞

In reality the agent hardly cares about 1-2k difference. That is equal to about 10-30e in commission. The seller on the other hand probably cares much more about every thousand extra on sale price.

davindub

Unfortunately you don't know. You will get a sense of the different agents and if they can be trusted when they say things like that.

First the sake of 2k you might be able to close or the EA has no intention of closing. But you know you may not have to pay immediately? The closing can drag on a bit so time to raise the 2k.

That being said turn up at other viewings where the agent will be there...

starmc14

davindub wrote:

First the sake of 2k you might be able to close or the EA has no intention of closing. But you know you may not have to pay immediately? The closing can drag on a bit so time to raise the 2k.

I did think of this but after being told on Monday evening that he was ringing the vendor to close out and then today suddenly needing 4k more than my last bid to close out, I am reluctant to trust the EA and put myself in further debt to raise the extra €€.

Askthe EA

starmc14 wrote: »

I did think of this but after being told on Monday evening that he was ringing the vendor to close out and then today suddenly needing 4k more than my last bid to close out, I am reluctant to trust the EA and put myself in further debt to raise the extra €€.

So don't offer an extra 4k. Only offer what your willing to pay.

I was the EA in this exact situation. Received an offer which I told the bidder was likely acceptable but that I had to get the vendors go ahead. It took me best part of a day to reach my client. He wanted to think about it. Fine.

Another bid 5k higher came in. Original bidder pissed off. Probably thinks I'm dishonest but contracts are being signed today.

These kind of things do happen.

davo10

I could never understand why EA's get the blame when a bid isn't accepted, it's not in their gift to accept it, only the vendor can do that. And, when the op comes to sell a property and the shoe is on the other foot, I am not sure the op will be inclined to accept any offer below the maximum that can be achieved.

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

So don't offer an extra 4k. Only offer what your willing to pay.

I was the EA in this exact situation. Received an offer which I told the bidder was likely acceptable but that I had to get the vendors go ahead. It took me best part of a day to reach my client. He wanted to think about it. Fine.

Another bid 5k higher came in. Original bidder pissed off. Probably thinks I'm dishonest but contracts are being signed today.

These kind of things do happen.

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

1641

irishgeo wrote: »

.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

Probably does happen occasionally but not as often as it is alleged to be. How many threads have you seen here where a bidder is getting priced out and wonders, or is prompted here to wonder, about a phantom bid ? If it was half as widespread as alleged evidence would surely emerge.

My tuppence worth is that phantom bids, when they occasionally happen, are more likely to be the work of the vendor (via a "friend"). A vendor's motivation and advantage is much greater than the Estate Agent's.

Wheeliebin30

I thought they have to have bids submitted by email now as to show their not bluffing as many were caught doing this year's ago?

davo10

irishgeo wrote: »

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

Askthe EA

davo10 wrote: »

irishgeo wrote: »

It's the lack of transparency that's the problem.

Some Agents do invent bids to get a higher price.

I think the bids should be made public on the website of the house for sale and perhaps the initials of bidder.

Kinda like eBay where you can see the price history of the bids.

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?/quote]

Absolutely agree. Very few agents will risk their license and livelihood for the sake of a few euro. And that's all it really is. 5000 is worth about 75 to the office and less again to the agent. And that's before tax.

Seth Brundle

davo10 wrote: »

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

Presumably EAs won't put them on the advert page because it will highlight their absurd asking prices.

Askthe EA

kbannon wrote: »

[quote="davo10;

Presumably EAs won't put them on the advert page because it will highlight their absurd asking prices.[/quote]

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

Seth Brundle

Askthe EA wrote: »

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

But they aren't shown against the bids.
Houses are usually advertised well below the expected sale price to lure people in.

Askthe EA

kbannon wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

I don't understand? Asking prices are on the ad?

But they aren't shown against the bids.
Houses are usually advertised well below the expected sale price to lure people in.

I'm sorry. I still don't understand your point. The final sale price goes on the register anyway?

Seth Brundle

EAs frequently undervalue properties for sale. By putting either the current bid, or indeed, the bid history, on the advert it would introduce transparency that shows the EAs low initial valuations

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

I'm sorry. I still don't understand your point. The final sale price goes on the register anyway?

It's advertised cheaper to get the bids up.

The sale doesn't appear for months on the register.

irishgeo

davo10 wrote: »

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

If phaeton bids doesn't exist then why is it that some houses a person is bidding on suddenly gets a 2k bid above your bid and the months later the house is still unsold.


Not all agents are squeaky clean.

mugsymugsy

OP bid what you value the house for and what you can afford and are happy to pay. Remember the estate agent is working for the vendor and it's the vendor that is likely to be the one that wants to ensure they get their extra 5k etc. You will only ever find out what the final price is up on the property price register.

I would suggest that you email the estate agent this evening do it out of office hours so you have a record of the date and bid in writing. State you are mortgage approved and in a position to move on the property etc (if this is the case)

On a slightly seperate note does anyone know if any estate agents work on a sliding scale. Say 1.5% for up to 200k but anything additional they get X%. As the estate agent who posts here (thanks for posting!) Says if it's a flat % you would think simply isn't worth risking their livelihood for an extra 100 euro.

Askthe EA

irishgeo wrote: »

davo10 wrote: »

Have you proof that some agents invent bids? This is an accusation often bandied about but it tends to be anacdotal rather than substantiated. What is your proof for making that statement?

What's to stop an EA, or indeed the vendor from putting bids up on a website?

If I was bidding on a property, I certainly would not want the public to be able to view it, all that would happen in that case would be fictitious names/letters would be used, or as sometimes happens, bids are made through solicitors.

If phaeton bids doesn't exist then why is it that some houses a person is bidding on suddenly gets a 2k bid above your bid and the months later the house is still unsold.


Not all agents are squeaky clean.

Failed engineer's report? Bidder changed their mind?

For sure not all agents are honest but more often than not, they are.

starmc14

OP here. My bid was what I thought the house in it's current condition was worth. Based in conjunction with what other properties in the same estate sold for previously. I totally understand that the agent is working for the vendor to get the best price. Guess I am just disappointed. Lesson learned not to get emotionally involved. On to the next! Thanks all for your input.

Gruffalo22

mugsymugsy wrote: »

OP bid what you value the house for and what you can afford and are happy to pay. Remember the estate agent is working for the vendor and it's the vendor that is likely to be the one that wants to ensure they get their extra 5k etc. You will only ever find out what the final price is up on the property price register.

I would suggest that you email the estate agent this evening do it out of office hours so you have a record of the date and bid in writing. State you are mortgage approved and in a position to move on the property etc (if this is the case)

On a slightly seperate note does anyone know if any estate agents work on a sliding scale. Say 1.5% for up to 200k but anything additional they get X%. As the estate agent who posts here (thanks for posting!) Says if it's a flat % you would think simply isn't worth risking their livelihood for an extra 100 euro.

If EA gets high price for property then they have done a 'great job' and will be recommended to others for their next 5k

Askthe EA

Gruffalo22 wrote: »

If EA gets high price for property then they have done a 'great job' and will be recommended to others for their next 5k

This is true, but if they get 50k above, they got their valuation wrong and the market did all the work!!!!!

Graham

starmc14 wrote: »

OP here. My bid was what I thought the house in it's current condition was worth. Based in conjunction with what other properties in the same estate sold for previously. I totally understand that the agent is working for the vendor to get the best price. Guess I am just disappointed. Lesson learned not to get emotionally involved. On to the next! Thanks all for your input.

It's worth remembering that the property price register is at best several months behind the current market so doesn't reflect recent sale agreed figures. If you're basing offers on matching previous sales prices in a rising market, you're likely to keep getting disappointed.

Think of it this way; if your offer had been accepted now it would probably be Oct/Nov/Dec before the sale actually went through. Depending on the speed of your solicitor and the price register, the price you paid might not appear until early next year. During that time, prices could have risen another 5% - 10%.

Gruffalo22

Askthe EA wrote: »

This is true, but if they get 50k above, they got their valuation wrong and the market did all the work!!!!!

I know of 2 houses on same road for sale recently. 1st which was beautiful sold for 100k over asking with loads of bidders 415k vs 515k.

Similar but smaller house on same road valued at 450k. On the market for a few months and price has been reduced recently as no offers

The same auctioneer got it wrong both times but every house is different!

dinneenp

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

Graham

dinneenp wrote: »

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

I thought that's exactly what is meant to happen? Must go digging.....