Estate agent tactics

Askthe EA

dinneenp wrote: »

Ideal situation would be that there is a record of every offer kept. If a potential buyer thinks there's a fake offer they contact the regulator who has the power to check the records.
Sounds simple but I presume will never happen here.

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

irishgeo

Askthe EA wrote: »

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

Who can request to see that info?

daheff

davo10 wrote: »

I could never understand why EA's get the blame when a bid isn't accepted, it's not in their gift to accept it, only the vendor can do that.

Its because agents give buyers the impression that their bid will seal the deal....leading to buyers getting ecstatic over the prospect. Then when the seller doesnt accept or gets a better offer, the buyers blame the agent for misinforming them.

EA shouldnt promise what it cant deliver. Accept bid and pass it on.

Askthe EA

irishgeo wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

Yup. We must keep a log of every offer received, who made it, their contact details, when it was made and clients decision.

Who can request to see that info?

The PSRA. Contact them if you have concerns.

fg1406

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

Bellview

Askthe EA wrote:

The PSRA. Contact them if you have concerns.

If going to prsa you will need evidence of bids etc . I had a dealing with an ea where a hoyse we were bidding on was sold for 30k less than my bid when I viewed house on property register. I considered going to prsa but since all dealing over the phone it would turn into a he said she said conversation and I don't have time for that.
On the plus side we actually found a better house within 3 months so in some ways we feel lucky that we were messed about..but that ea is a lowlife in my opinion and it's interesting that he was OK to sell for 30k lower than another bid...folks like this guy give ea a bad name

Graham

Do you know if the eventual purchaser discovered defects in the property after a survey that may have warranted a €30k+ drop in asking price?

jimmycrackcorm

Bellview wrote:

I considered going to prsa but since all dealing over the phone it would turn into a he said she said conversation and I don't have time for that.
....
but that ea is a lowlife in my opinion and it's interesting that he was OK to sell for 30k lower than another bid...folks like this guy give ea a bad name

If it were me I'd make an effort to try find the previous owner to let them know, especially if any bids were in sent emails. At some point you may want to sell your own house and you wouldn't be to happy if the EA undersold at a preference to someone he knew.

Of course there may be a legitimate reason, but I don't doubt that it sites happen simply because there are no examples publicised.

Askthe EA

fg1406 wrote: »

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

A week for no contact is poor form. Mind you, bad time of year.

fg1406

Thanks. I wasn't sure whether waiting this long was the norm or not. It's left us feeling in limbo.

eeguy

fg1406 wrote: »

How long does it normally take EA to revert once you've made a bid? We are the over-bidders in this case. We've made counter bids on the underbidder twice but have heard nothing in over a week. I don't want tobrung and sound eager to them. Is this normal? (Sorry FTB here!)

What dies revert mean?

fg1406

eeguy wrote: »

What dies revert mean?

Come back to you to let you know if your offer has been countered by another bidder/ accepted or rejected by vendor.

looksee

On a slightly different angle of ea honesty, I have been trawling daft and have discovered that with a few clear exceptions the size of the site is over stated in pretty much every case. A 'good acre' is .8 of an acre. An acre can be pretty much anything - but never over. Usually it is around .75 of an acre. The worst example was one I saw today, '2 acres' so I checked Landdirect and there it is - .6 of an acre. I phoned and asked was there any more land than was shown on Landdirect, as it was such a big difference, but no, it was a 'typo'. I have twice informed EAs about misinformation on their ads and in both cases, weeks later, the wrong size is still there.

It is kind of noticeable that the EAs who put in exact hectares (and sometimes acres as well) get it right.

mikeybrennan

mloc123 wrote: »

In reality the agent hardly cares about 1-2k difference. That is equal to about 10-30e in commission. The seller on the other hand probably cares much more about every thousand extra on sale price.

The agent may be on a higher rate of commision for the last few thousand
So it may be worth his while

BigAl81

Was in an estate agents in Galway today enquiring about a house that was "price on asking". Her answer was "what's the most you can afford"!!

Askthe EA

BigAl81 wrote: »

Was in an estate agents in Galway today enquiring about a house that was "price on asking". Her answer was "what's the most you can afford"!!

Straight and to the point. Lol. That's shocking.

Askthe EA

mikeybrennan wrote: »

The agent may be on a higher rate of commision for the last few thousand
So it may be worth his while

It isn't. They get a percentage of a percentage. Even at 2% 5,000 is only worth €100 to the office and less again to the agent.

Askthe EA

fg1406 wrote: »

Thanks. I wasn't sure whether waiting this long was the norm or not. It's left us feeling in limbo.

Call him after the weekend. Say your sick of waiting. If he thinks he might lose you it will focus him. I suspect however, your offer isn't acceptable to his client and they are hoping another person comes in.

fg1406

Askthe EA wrote: »

Call him after the weekend. Say your sick of waiting. If he thinks he might lose you it will focus him. I suspect however, your offer isn't acceptable to his client and they are hoping another person comes in.

I appreciate your advice. I did in fact call this afternoon and told them I had found another house and I needed to know where I stood (as to not sound eager) and they said they'd call me back. It's 8:30pm and I don't think I'm getting that call this weekend. There was an offer of €210 on the house and we bid €2.5k over it. They countered with another bid of €216 and we've gone to €219. We aren't in Dublin so the property market here regularly achieves 8% either side of asking and asking price is €220. But houses in this estate rarely go over €220.

If the vendor isn't willing to accept €219 we would at least like to know. As I said, we are just left in limbo.

dinneenp

Friend was viewing a house, the house next door had sold. Estate agent said it sold for €350k . my friend said "no, it sold for €360k".

Estate agent asked where did you hear that, friend "my colleague is friends with the person who bought."

Estate agent - "you can't say anything in this town." (Galway)

So either person who bought didn't want to tell people she paid €380k or Estate Agent wanted to pretend house sold for more which could lead to mf friend offering higher for house he was viewing.......

mikeybrennan

Askthe EA wrote: »

It isn't. They get a percentage of a percentage. Even at 2% 5,000 is only worth €100 to the office and less again to the agent.

it is if they're getting 20% of the extra 5000

Graham

mikeybrennan wrote: »

it is if they're getting 20% of the extra 5000

You'd have to be a fairly dumb vendor to agree to pay an agent 20% commission for getting what's arguably the market rate if someone is prepared to pay more.

mikeybrennan

Graham wrote: »

You'd have to be a fairly dumb vendor to agree to pay an agent 20% commission for getting what's arguably the market rate if someone is prepared to pay more.

the agent is incentivised to squeeze the last few thousand out of a sale

i've heard its happening

laotg

Back in 2012 when I was a ftb I found a house with asking price of 240k. Offered 210k, ea said no, he said a cash buyer had come forward. We ended up outbidding each other by 2 to 3 k until we got to 231k offered by me. EA accepted. So I was ready to put a deposit down the next day when it occurred to me that the ea had been feeding me a pack of lies. I rang him the next day to say I was no longer interested. He lost the plot. I told him its not the end of the world "sure the cash buyer offered 229k". EA wasnt happy at all. I said seeya. Anyway, 7 months later the house sold (according to property price register) for 219k. Enough proof for me to never trust a word an estate agents says.

Graham

I'm not sure what it is particularly about property but there's something about house buying that causes a lot of us to temporarily suspend logic.

That's not aimed at anyone in particular (on this thread or otherwise) it's just a general observation.

It's probably the combination of being the biggest purchase any of us will ever make combined with the exuberance of potentially securing a first/next home for us and our families.

If we don't get the property we hoped for there's quite naturally a feeling of disappointment particularly after the emotional turmoil of excitement/worry/hope/excitement in the run up to the disappointment

Even though we all know there's a shortage of supply which means we're usually competing against 2/3/4/5/10 other potential buyers on any given property, we prefer to believe it's us against a nefarious estate agent. That there's some secret bidding tactic we haven't been told. That there's something underhand happening. For some reason we convince ourselves any of those options are a much better explanation than simple probability. The probability that we only have a 1 in 2/3/4/5/10 chance of winning the property against the other 'competitors'.

Maybe it helps ease the disappointment if we have someone to blame.

I'd wager that in 99% of cases, there's a much more logical explanation that we didn't get the house. I can think of two that probably cover most missed purchases:

1) we were outbid
2) there were stronger buyers than us. Cash buyers maybe, or buyers with no chain.

Even if we do eventually accept those explanations, we're delighted to discover 6 months later that 'the one that got away' eventually sold for less than we were told was the final winning offer. Woohoo, that's conclusive proof that we were bidding against dark forces, that we were cheated out of what should rightfully have been ours. That someone else knew the secret tactic to bidding or had the secret handshake.

We much prefer that explanation than the far more logical ones like

1) defects were discovered in the survey
2) the 'winners' realised they'd got carried away and pulled out of the purchase
3) the bank valuation was below the final offer price

TLDR:

It's all the estate agents fault

1641

Graham wrote: »

I'm not sure what it is particularly about property but there's something about house buying that causes a lot of us to temporarily suspend logic.

That's not aimed at anyone in particular (on this thread or otherwise) it's just a general observation.

It's probably the combination of being the biggest purchase any of us will ever make combined with the exuberance of potentially securing a first/next home for us and our families.

If we don't get the property we hoped for there's quite naturally a feeling of disappointment particularly after the emotional turmoil of excitement/worry/hope/excitement in the run up to the disappointment

Even though we all know there's a shortage of supply which means we're usually competing against 2/3/4/5/10 other potential buyers on any given property, we prefer to believe it's us against a nefarious estate agent. That there's some secret bidding tactic we haven't been told. That there's something underhand happening. For some reason we convince ourselves any of those options are a much better explanation than simple probability. The probability that we only have a 1 in 2/3/4/5/10 chance of winning the property against the other 'competitors'.

Maybe it helps ease the disappointment if we have someone to blame.

I'd wager that in 99% of cases, there's a much more logical explanation that we didn't get the house. I can think of two that probably cover most missed purchases:

1) we were outbid
2) there were stronger buyers than us. Cash buyers maybe, or buyers with no chain.

Even if we do eventually accept those explanations, we're delighted to discover 6 months later that 'the one that got away' eventually sold for less than we were told was the final winning offer. Woohoo, that's conclusive proof that we were bidding against dark forces, that we were cheated out of what should rightfully have been ours. That someone else knew the secret tactic to bidding or had the secret handshake.

We much prefer that explanation than the far more logical ones like

1) defects were discovered in the survey
2) the 'winners' realised they'd got carried away and pulled out of the purchase
3) the bank valuation was below the final offer price

TLDR:

It's all the estate agents fault

Great post, Graham. But I suspect you may have been wasting your breath for those who are convinced that the sinister explanation, however convoluted, is always correct. We live in the age of the conspiracy theory.At another time of course it would have been witches, the fairies, outsiders, etc. Pick your eras favourite scapegoat.

starmc14

My issue isn't with the fact I lost the house. It's not the first one I have lost and have no doubt it won't be the last.
I take offense to the blatant lying.
On Monday calling me to say he was calling the vendor to recommend closing out to me and will call me Tuesday.
Then no call Tuesday. When I finally hold of him Wednesday he spins me bullsh*t of how he was calling me and leaving me voicemails all day Tuesday.
Nothing but a blatant lie as I had no missed calls or voicemails from him or his office.

Paddytheman

dinneenp wrote: »

Friend was viewing a house, the house next door had sold. Estate agent said it sold for €350k . my friend said "no, it sold for €360k".

Estate agent asked where did you hear that, friend "my colleague is friends with the person who bought."

Estate agent - "you can't say anything in this town." (Galway)

So either person who bought didn't want to tell people she paid €380k or Estate Agent wanted to pretend house sold for more which could lead to mf friend offering higher for house he was viewing.......

Sorry so Estate Agent said it went for €350 or €380?

theboringfox

Some great posts here. I was the same with the conspiracy theories when buying. In almost all cases when I followed up months later on ppr ot showed Agent was correct.

The one area I find most fascinating in the house selling world is setting the asking price. People mention setting low asking price to get interest but then if set too low you could have bidders who pull out because they think they are 'over paying' too much vis a viz the asking price. You then have issue of setting price too high that noone turns up.

My understanding is Agents differ in approach but general rule of thumb seems to be to price low if its nice house and area as you want ppl to turn up and fall in love with place and then that leads to bidding war. And then if house is lets say run down looking such that photos on daft lool poor you might pitch asking higher at exactly what you want so the Agent is trying to signal to buyers it is worth this amount. Im the first scenario it would be truer to call it a minimum or guide price and for second approach asking is accurate.

1641

theboringfox wrote: »

My understanding is Agents differ in approach

There are certainly some who who have a rep for pitching low and going for a bidding frenzy. And some are to known to pitch high because in order to get the contract in the first place they have valued the property higher than their competitors. I am not sure if if either is a good long term strategy.

But I am also amazed by the number of prospective purchasers who let themselves be seduced into the idea that the Agent is in some way on their side. The Estate Agent should always be courteous, some may be charming, some be be friendly but he/she is never your friend, or on your side. This does not mean he/she is against you either. If you think the EA is on your side you will proably end up disappointed or angry.

If acting professionally the EA is always acting for the vendor and seeking the highest price and/or the cleanest sale (not always the same thing).