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tenants working as a beauty therapist in house

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  • 03-08-2017 9:17am
    #1
    Bridget1996
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭


    Hi


    Firstly I have no probs with my tenant, they are great, keep house clean and pay rent on time, but they txted asking could we replace carpets, we said we would get them cleaned for her, then I see up on face book that she is working offering waxes and stuff,

    Just to state I know it is in the house as I txted asking for an appointment, she doesnt know me, deals with my husband, and she told me to come to house for appointment.

    Is this allowed,
    What are my rights/ there rights

    Im abit annoyed as she said she wanted new carpets as she was worried bout her kid crawling on them, then I see this ad, is it for her clients more so

    Opinions please


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    #2
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Bridget1996 wrote: »
    Hi


    Firstly I have no probs with my tenant, they are great, keep house clean and pay rent on time, but they txted asking could we replace carpets, we said we would get them cleaned for her, then I see up on face book that she is working offering waxes and stuff,

    Just to state I know it is in the house as I txted asking for an appointment, she doesnt know me, deals with my husband, and she told me to come to house for appointment.

    Is this allowed,
    What are my rights/ there rights

    Im abit annoyed as she said she wanted new carpets as she was worried bout her kid crawling on them, then I see this ad, is it for her clients more so

    Opinions please

    Absolutely not!!!! If a person is running a business out of your property, it could have an effect on your house insurance. Secondly, they should be paying rates which I guarantee you they are not. Thirdly, they are bringing a ton of extra wear and tear into the house.

    Id nip that in the bud asap. Its bound to contravene the terms of the lease.


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    #3
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Live and let live if she's paying the rent. Flag (unofficially) it with her and tell her given people are traipsing in and out she'll need to meet the cost of having the carpets cleaned.

    Ask her if she has the proper insurance - speak to a professional about the upshot of relying on an affirmative answer to that.


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,416 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Is there planning permission for this?


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    #5
    Melendez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


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    #6
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Melendez wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Possibly, so draw your own conclusion from that and that I'd be very slow to stop anything that was a revenue stream for the renter, given how easy it is to stay put for 18+ months and pay feck all.


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    #7
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    given how easy it is to stay put for 18+ months and pay feck all.

    And here in lies the biggest issue for LLs in the current market.


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    #8
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    It doesn't matter is she has appropriate insurance for her business, as someone mentioned earlier, you would be in breech of the terms and conditions of your own policy and it could be voided


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    #9
    Bridget1996
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Bridget1996


    Im still raging, my husband is happy enough to say nothing, but my fear is what if something happens for example some trips down the stairs who is responible for that........for now I will get the carpet cleaned.......


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    #10
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Bridget1996 wrote: »
    Im still raging, my husband is happy enough to say nothing, but my fear is what if something happens for example some trips down the stairs who is responible for that........for now I will get the carpet cleaned.......

    I would highly advise not turning a blind eye.


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    #11
    Miaireland
    Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭Miaireland


    You need to find out how this impacts on your insurance. If something happens it could end up costing you.


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    #12
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,839 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Is there any official definition of what constitutes business use?

    Like if someone rents an apartment and works from home as a freelance IT person, does this constitute business use? I am pretty sure it doesn't, but wondering if there's something official here.


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    #13
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,997 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Bridget1996 wrote: »
    Im still raging, my husband is happy enough to say nothing, but my fear is what if something happens for example some trips down the stairs who is responible for that........for now I will get the carpet cleaned.......

    I'm baffled as to why you'd get the carpet cleaned, if the oven is dirty would you clean that also? It's the responsibility of the tennent to ensure that they clean any mess they make beyond reasonable wear and tear. As far as I'm concerned if you make a mess you clean up your own mess, it's beyond cheeky to demand a landlord clean carpets when the tennent is the one tracking dirt into them. If the carpets were in good condition when the tenent moved in then I'd inform them you'll be inspecting the apartment to assess the state of them.


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    #14
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,839 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    conorhal wrote: »
    I'm baffled as to why you'd get the carpet cleaned, if the oven is dirty would you clean that also? It's the responsibility of the tennent to ensure that they clean any mess they make beyond reasonable wear and tear. As far as I'm concerned if you make a mess you clean up your own mess, it's beyond cheeky to demand a landlord clean carpets when the tennent is the one tracking dirt into them. If the carpets were in good condition when the tenent moved in then I'd inform them you'll be inspecting the apartment to assess the state of them.

    The tenant asked for them to be replaced, not cleaned, which suggests they may be well worn.

    The fact the landlord isn't pushing back on this too much and offered to clean them would also suggest that the carpets are a good age. Carpets starting to show their age is normal wear and tear and it's up to the landlord to sort that. No matter if the tenant hoovers every day the carpets will still degrade over time. So long as it's all normal wear and tear that's fair enough, if they are spilling wax and all sorts of gunk all over them that's a different story.

    Same as the walls really, you would hardly expect a tenant to paint the walls if they are starting to show their age.


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    #15
    neonsofa
    Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    awec wrote: »

    Same as the walls really, you would hardly expect a tenant to paint the walls if they are starting to show their age.

    As a tenant, I've painted many a wall, with landlords permission obviously. Bought the paint myself too. It may not be my responsibility/obligation or what have you, but I wouldn't think it's weird to expect a tenant might keep them fresh if remaining in the property long term. Especially if it's her business premises :pac:


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    #16
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,839 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    neonsofa wrote: »
    As a tenant, I've painted many a wall, with landlords permission obviously. Bought the paint myself too. It may not be my responsibility/obligation or what have you, but I wouldn't think it's weird to expect a tenant might keep them fresh if remaining in the property long term. Especially if it's her business premises :pac:

    It's pretty weird to expect it (and unreasonable).

    If the tenant offers to do it fair play, but it's not their responsibility at all. Landlord should always pay for the paint though, tenant is just screwing themselves if they pay for it themselves.


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    #17
    neonsofa
    Registered Users Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    awec wrote: »
    It's pretty weird to expect it (and unreasonable).

    If the tenant offers to do it fair play, but it's not their responsibility at all. Landlord should always pay for the paint though, tenant is just screwing themselves if they pay for it themselves.

    That's why I said "expect that they might". Not expects them to actually do it.

    Nah a tenant who treats the place as their home and has a good relationship with the landlord who doesn't take the piss, isn't screwing themselves by choosing to buy a bit of paint for what is currently their home. There are plenty other things that I would insist on landlords paying for but it's choosing your battles tbh and if I consider somewhere my home I treat it as such and buying a bit of paint is no big deal like.


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    #18
    Bredabe
    Registered Users Posts: 4,110 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    When I was renting, I told the LL I worked from home and I did the odd freelance too, the nature of the work meant the postal address of the house, maybe used as part of the companies paper work. My job checked with their insurance and it was ok with them. LL never said anything one way or the other. So I assume that small businesses are ok under rental insurances.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



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    #19
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Straight up it would be an unbelievably d1ck move to do anything to prevent this small side buisness.

    You'd be within your rights to of course. Yes, there are possible insurance things and all of that. You'd be in the right. But just cos you're right, doenst make it the right thing to do.

    If you did this and the tenant stopped paying rent that would, IMHO, simply be Karma biting you for your own actions.


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    #20
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    Straight up it would be an unbelievably d1ck move to do anything to prevent this small side buisness.

    You'd be within your rights to of course. Yes, there are possible insurance things and all of that. You'd be in the right. But just cos you're right, doenst make it the right thing to do.

    If you did this and the tenant stopped paying rent that would, IMHO, simply be Karma biting you for your own actions.

    Absolute rubbish in my opinion. If the tenant brings in a client and they fall, who are they going to sue??


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    #21
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I very clearly said that I agree with you on all that. Everything else is just my opnion.


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    #22
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    Straight up it would be an unbelievably d1ck move to do anything to prevent this small side buisness.

    Can you guarantee that the tenant running the business in the house won't effect the landlord in anyway? No. So how can you say it would be a dick move.

    It is against planning laws, it will result in more wear and tear on the house, it would potentially null and void the op house insurance (what if there was a fire caused by the business)

    I understand the point that tenants have to much power in terms of overholding which may happen if you put and end to the business but you need to fully weigh up the financial risks to yourself.

    Edit to add Op you may be able to anonymously report them to planning authority in which case you don't have to directly say anything to them


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    #23
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Actually, a more realistic risk, let's say some of the beauticians equipment catches fire, house burns down. Insurance won't pay up. What then? Put it down to karma?


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    #24
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    I very clearly said that I agree with you on all that. Everything else is just my opnion.

    How can stopping something that could actually cause the ll to lose the house be considered a 'dick move' then??


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    #25
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭seagull


    There could also be issues with revenue if they decide that this is now a business premises. At the very least, find out all the potential implications for you and explain them to your tenant.


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    #26
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    How can stopping something that could actually cause the ll to lose the house be considered a 'dick move' then??

    Because tenants = good and landlords = bad.


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    #27
    beechwood55
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭beechwood55


    Also does the tenant have proper insurance in place for her own business? What happens if a client sustains injury through being burnt with hot wax??


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    #28
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    beechwood55 wrote: »
    Also does the tenant have proper insurance in place for her own business? What happens if a client sustains injury through being burnt with hot wax??

    I believe that's extra.


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    #29
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Wabbit Ears wrote:
    Straight up it would be an unbelievably d1ck move to do anything to prevent this small side buisness.

    There is nothing stopping the tenant from going to their clients houses instead of using the rented house.


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    #30
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Bredabe wrote: »
    When I was renting, I told the LL I worked from home and I did the odd freelance too, the nature of the work meant the postal address of the house, maybe used as part of the companies paper work. My job checked with their insurance and it was ok with them. LL never said anything one way or the other. So I assume that small businesses are ok under rental insurances.

    They are, though that generally doesn't apply if members of the public are visiting the property as part of the business. Not sure where "by prearranged appointment only" falls on that spectrum.

    In general here everyone is massively over reacting on the basis of extraordinarily little information and massive assumptions.

    OP needs to stop taking this as some personal affront. Asking for updates to fixtures and fittings is not some personal insult and this tenant is otherwise a good tenant.

    From the sound of it this is a single individual with no employees performing the occasional beauty treatment. Wear and tear wise that's going to be close to or within normal bounds in spite of the fear mongering here. Maybe the Facebook page suggests differently?

    OP should ring her house insurance and ask how much the additional cost for allowing such a business would be. She should also ring the local planning department and see what the story is. The property remains primarily a residence and the additional traffic generated is minimal so it's likely they have no interest.

    Then op could try asking for a house inspection to see if there's any cause for concern wrt wear and tear. They can also then ask the tenant about the tenants own insurance and for the additional part of the house insurance if there's an additional cost there.


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    #31
    karenalot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 196 ✭✭karenalot


    Bredabe wrote: »
    When I was renting, I told the LL I worked from home and I did the odd freelance too, the nature of the work meant the postal address of the house, maybe used as part of the companies paper work. My job checked with their insurance and it was ok with them. LL never said anything one way or the other. So I assume that small businesses are ok under rental insurances.

    Depends on the nature of the job. There's a big difference between working from home on a laptop and bringing in several clients a day to use equipment on them. Most businesses would need public liability insurance in place for the second instance.


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