Sacking an employee

Red Alert

Bandara wrote: »

Nonsense.
So 'good' employees will only do a good job if they get free breakfast and lunches ?

Good employees will do a good job, but when things they are used to are withdrawn prepare for them to not do things they're not required to. Things like not covering shifts at short notice, not being available to stay a little late if needed, etc. These are often worth more in practice on the day you need them that the perk you withdraw.

RUDOLF289

Hello Clara B,

You really need professional help.

One headline in this article is that employers loose 80% (eighty percent!) Of all unfair dismissal claims.

Have a look at these links ;

http://employmentrightsireland.com/how-to-carry-out-a-disciplinary-procedure-in-the-irish-workplace-online-course/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrC4R3fRA0E&feature=share

http://employmentrightsireland.com/the-zen-guide-to-unfair-dismissal-claims/

The person you wish to let go, that is with you less than 2 months, just ask her to leave. Be as nice as you want to be about it, just say it is not working out, I pay you 1 week in lieu of notice. There is no obligation within the 1st six months to explain or give a reason.

I don't know the solictor referred to in the links, but he has some good free advice. It may be an idea to reach out to him and get information first hand as to how to deal with the issues you are faced with.

Best of luck

Cheers,
Rudolf289

davindub

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

Hello Clara B,

You really need professional help.

One headline in this article is that employers loose 80% (eighty percent!) Of all unfair dismissal claims.

Have a look at these links ;

http://employmentrightsireland.com/how-to-carry-out-a-disciplinary-procedure-in-the-irish-workplace-online-course/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrC4R3fRA0E&feature=share

http://employmentrightsireland.com/the-zen-guide-to-unfair-dismissal-claims/

The person you wish to let go, that is with you less than 2 months, just ask her to leave. Be as nice as you want to be about it, just say it is not working out, I pay you 1 week in lieu of notice. There is no obligation within the 1st six months to explain or give a reason.

I don't know the solictor referred to in the links, but he has some good free advice. It may be an idea to reach out to him and get information first hand as to how to deal with the issues you are faced with.

Best of luck

Cheers,
Rudolf289

There is also wrongful dismissal (note not unfair) which can be brought with less than 12 months service. You can't just ask them to leave with no reason given.

Victor

Clara B wrote: »

Stock left at end of shift that cannot be sold the next day (pastries that are only good for 1 day etc) are given to staff.

Stop this, as it encourages over-ordering of stock and, like you have seen, hoarding of desirable stock, that could be sold. Explain this to all staff.

We also provide breakfast and lunch.

This might be covered by the registered employment agreement - however, it is likely capped at a cash limit - apply this limit.

She removed 8 items before lunch and kept them to one side for herself and her sister(who also works for us).

If possible, make sure the two sisters don't work in the same place or same days / times. Make sure staff don't serve family and friends.

That is stealing- no other word for it

It may indeed be a theft-type offence, but it isn't stealing as such if eaten on the premises. Be careful in the accusation.

She is also giving her sister, who only works a 4 hour shift,a half hour lunch break and not declaring it-we pay a 15 minute break,but not the 30 minute break.

Is there a roster for breaks?

I have heard she uses the staffs tips to balance the till when there are issues.

That's stealing from staff and concealing till issues. Are tills regularly checked by you?

Cocobongo

Easy breezy as long as you have documented the first meeting. If you haven't it might be better to go through a performance review and fail after or then make sure you go through the processes properly and have good evidence for a gross misconduct. Also if the other person is only with you for two months - do you not sign off contract with some sort of probation time at start?

Mongfinder General

If you need to shift somebody and you don't want to risk a trip to EAT then you'll have to get inventive. A favourite trick of mine used to be sending employees cv's (somewhat embellished) to agencies and other employers if I wanted shot of them. It yielded results and worked quite a few times. However if the employee is bone idle then this is much more difficult to get shot of.

lifeandtimes

Mongfinder General wrote: »

If you need to shift somebody and you don't want to risk a trip to EAT then you'll have to get inventive. A favourite trick of mine used to be sending employees cv's (somewhat embellished) to agencies and other employers if I wanted shot of them. It yielded results and worked quite a few times. However if the employee is bone idle then this is much more difficult to get shot of.

That is also a breach of data protection and you will get fined extensively by the data commissioner and the employee can then take a case against you for multitude of offenses,bullying,harassment etc

Op do NOT do this

Mongfinder General

lifeandtimes wrote: »

That is also a breach of data protection and you will get fined extensively by the data commissioner and the employee can then take a case against you for multitude of offenses,bullying,harassment etc

Op do NOT do this

We'll I'm sure the OP is smart enough to craft a resume that won't lead back to him/her. The employee is usually too flattered and intrigued to even think that their current employer is the progenitor of the interest from a third party and as for proving the source of the info well good luck with that. Almost everybody I know has forwarded their cv to an agency at some point. Don't worry about it OP, do what you need to do.

lifeandtimes

Mongfinder General wrote: »

We'll I'm sure the OP is smart enough to craft a resume that won't lead back to him/her. The employee is usually too flattered and intrigued to even think that their current employer is the progenitor of the interest from a third party and as for proving the source of the info well good luck with that. Almost everybody I know has forwarded their cv to an agency at some point. Don't worry about it OP, do what you need to do.

Op I would thread carefully with this advice.

This looks very suspicious and could open a whole door of legal complications for you. As an employer you have legal obligation to obide by data protection laws and if this employee did not give consent for their information to be passed to 3rd parties (askewed or not) you would be in lots of trouble. Get legal advice before doing this

Bandara

Mongfinder General wrote: »

If you need to shift somebody and you don't want to risk a trip to EAT then you'll have to get inventive. A favourite trick of mine used to be sending employees cv's (somewhat embellished) to agencies and other employers if I wanted shot of them. It yielded results and worked quite a few times. However if the employee is bone idle then this is much more difficult to get shot of.

Or alternately the employer could just be an adult and professional and set expectations with staff and deal with issues and with problem staff as they arise.

This is embarrassing behaviour by an employer, we are not in the schoolyard anymore. It's your company, you not supposed to be afraid of running it correctly and dealing with staff correctly.

Mongfinder General

Bandara wrote: »

Or alternately the employer could just be an adult and professional and set expectations with staff and deal with issues and with problem staff as they arise.

This is embarrassing behaviour by an employer, we are not in the schoolyard anymore. It's your company, you not supposed to be afraid of running it correctly and dealing with staff correctly.

Tell that to the EAT. I've tried playing it by the book but you're on a loser in this country unless you've got every angle covered.

boardsuser1

A bit off topic here, but the E.A.T are very bloody slow, i'm waiting over 2 years for my hearing and have sent emails to the relevant department and nothing.

But yes, from what you have alleged you would have grounds to dismiss.

Avatar MIA

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Tell that to the EAT. I've tried playing it by the book but you're on a loser in this country unless you've got every angle covered.

There are a number of poor employees out there that the EAT require you show a level of expertise and competence in legal matters to exit that is far greater than the expertise and competence shown by the poor employee carrying out their jobs.

That some employee's rely on the complexity to win EAT cases doesn't help.

lifeandtimes

Bandara wrote: »

Or alternately the employer could just be an adult and professional and set expectations with staff and deal with issues and with problem staff as they arise.

This is embarrassing behaviour by an employer, we are not in the schoolyard anymore. It's your company, you not supposed to be afraid of running it correctly and dealing with staff correctly.

Exactly,Makes me wonder what kind of business mongfinder general is in

Cocobongo

Bandara wrote: »

Or alternately the employer could just be an adult and professional and set expectations with staff and deal with issues and with problem staff as they arise.

This is embarrassing behaviour by an employer, we are not in the schoolyard anymore. It's your company, you not supposed to be afraid of running it correctly and dealing with staff correctly.

An adult? And why exactly would you keep someone in the business who steals from you? Stealing doesn't nescessary mean taking money either, this could be food, etc. What's there to talk?

j4vier

Bandara wrote: »

Nonsense.

So 'good' employees will only do a good job if they get free breakfast and lunches ?

Employees are good because they work well and are good at their jobs, they are good because that is their work ethic. They don't stop being good and purposely be 'bad' because their employer explains that they cannot feed them for free any longer as the company cannot sustain it.

'Good' employees will understand and work with the Employer once they are treated in the correct manner.

The problem is not about being a good or bad employee. They are humans and their attitudes change depending on the environment around them.

The problem is that a benefit which was previously present is now being removed, and that might not be perceived well by remaining staff.

They might remain to be good employees, but their motivation will probably take a hit. They are in customer facing roles and as a customer, you can easily see when staff is not happy in their jobs. I'm also assuming that because of the business, their wages might not be particularly high so they might value their job not just based on remuneration but also perks.

OP is you remove the perk, you need to be very alert on how the rest of the staff start behaving.

Bandara

Cocobongo wrote: »

An adult? And why exactly would you keep someone in the business who steals from you? Stealing doesn't nescessary mean taking money either, this could be food, etc. What's there to talk?

Where on earth did I suggest keeping someone in the business ?

Obviously you terminate their employment as soon as is possible. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Cocobongo

Bandara wrote: »

Where on earth did I suggest keeping someone in the business ?

Obviously you terminate their employment as soon as is possible. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

My bad - misread your post. Sorry

RUDOLF289

Hi Guys,

I am sure some of you would have seen this article ;

http://www.thejournal.ie/dhl-court-case-3540088-Aug2017/

On the face of it you would think the company (who I am sure has the benefit of an HR department and proper legal advice) had grounds to dismiss the driver in question. However, they came unstuck by referring to issues that should not have been brought to bear on his dismissal.

Just goes to show how carefully you need to thread and to obtain legal advice before taking any action to dismiss an employee.

Cheers,
Rudolf289