Damage to washing machine/ curtains who's liability

737max

That's how it works in Germany and I don't hear people complaining whereas in Ireland you'll hear people complaining about the grotty furniture and equipment in the property they are renting.

Sam Kade

mikemac2 wrote: »

There are YouTube videos that will show how to drain the machine

I was clueless for many years but once I found a good video it was all I needed.

You could ask your tenants to have a go before the handyman gets called. I'm guessing the pump is blocked. If so, not a big deal and a new machine will not be needed

Yeah let them make sh1te of the machine with the owners permission.

wally79

737max wrote: »

That's how it works in Germany and I don't hear people complaining whereas in Ireland you'll hear people complaining about the grotty furniture and equipment in the property they are renting.

Oh that's how it works in Germany. Well then you win

737max

No, the renter wins. Rents are much lower.

wally79

737max wrote: »

No, the renter wins. Rents are much lower.

Yeah that's the reason

_Brian

I saw in a local FaceBook group my tenant was looking for advice on how to taken down and clean a roller blind.

Some of the suggestions were manic and she was taking them all on board.

It was unprofessional but I just posted.

"That's my roller blind, please don't do this"

I got a text as apology within minutes and no problems since.

737max

wally79 wrote: »

Yeah that's the reason

Yes, it is. professional landlords have a product they can market at a more lower price as they have fewer inputs and for tenants buying or moving furniture at the start of the tenancy is a natural part of tenancy process.
The product is returned to white-wall condition at the end of a longer lease period to the benefit of both renter and landlord.

Do you have any experience of the German rental model? You haven't disclosed anything that suggests that you do. If not it might come as a shock to you to know that most German rental apartments don't even have an EBK.

wally79

737max wrote: »

Yes, it is. professional landlords have a product they can market at a more lower price as they have fewer inputs and for tenants buying or moving furniture at the start of the tenancy is a natural part of tenancy process.
The product is returned to white-wall condition at the end of a longer lease period to the benefit of both renter and landlord.

Do you have any experience of the German rental model? You haven't disclosed anything that suggests that you do. If not it might come as a shock to you to know that most German rental apartments don't even have an EBK.

I didnt realise second hand white goods were so expensive

737max

You are not a good debater.

Dogcatcher

Next time rent your property to Adults who are house trained

wally79

737max wrote: »

You are not a good debater.

Sorry for not referencing German property law.

Your opening point was that the inability to give fully unfurnished apartments was the reason rental prices here were so much higher

I questioned whether the presence of some second hand white goods really made that much difference or was it other less simplistic factors

737max

I live in a very wealthy German City with greater geographic and planning constraints on supply side than Dublin but somehow rents are considerably cheaper despite high demand for property.
The onerous obligations of landlords to their tenants without equal weighted obligations of tenants to their landlords and unfair taxation on the activity(not profit) and are among the reasons why I have chosen not to invest in Irish residential rental property.

737max

wally79 wrote: »

other less simplistic factors

Is that your attempt at a rebuttal? other undefined factors which you can't make tangible so you leave it opaque and hope that those who aren't overly familiar with the Irish property market but have certain prejudices confirm their own prejudices in the absence of proof.

wally79

737max wrote: »

Is that your attempt at a rebuttal? other undefined factors which you can't make tangible so you leave it opaque and hope that those who aren't overly familiar with the Irish property market but have certain prejudices confirm their own prejudices in the absence of proof.

Yes you've got me

Guy Sajer

mikemac2 wrote: »

There are YouTube videos that will show how to drain the machine

I was clueless for many years but once I found a good video it was all I needed.

You could ask your tenants to have a go before the handyman gets called. I'm guessing the pump is blocked. If so, not a big deal and a new machine will not be needed

Why would they do that when there is perfect opportunity to claim some of the deposit to repair or get a new machine?

The_Conductor

mikeybrennan wrote: »

It's a blocked filter or pump

Not strictly damage

I've had to replace a few washing machines- and have the Samsung local engineer for Dublin and Galway on speed-dial. It might be a blocked filter- or pump- however, it also might be any of a long and meandering list of other possible issues, not least of which would be the belt- esp. if the machine was overloaded.

The OP has stated its a small capacity 7kg machine- and the tenant put 3 sets of heavy curtains in it. It beggars belief that it wasn't seriously overloaded. An overloaded machine is no more or less likely to have a blocked filter- than an underloaded machine. The information given- references a seriously overloaded machine- it doesn't give any inherent reason that there would be a blockage.

Modern machines do not autodrain- if they stop mid cycle.

The person who posted the link to Youtube- showing how to drain a machine stuck mid-cycle- is to be commended- its the obvious first step. There-after, figure how to unlock the door- without breaking it- and run a few tests with something small (perhaps a towel or a pair of jeans).

The bigger issue here- is its a small 7kg machine- and the tenants somehow managed to squeeze large heavy curtains into it- probably using brute force.

I know 7kg machines were standard sized machines, once upon a time- but they're not anymore.

Baby01032012

Thanks for all responses.

To give an update. I was there Thursday evening. Spent 2 hours with them. Showed them how to drain and unblock filter. They finished draining and were to try that night with small items. And let me know Friday so I could service agent if still not working. No word from them Friday. I went there Saturday as new furniture was arriving as agreed. Washing machine still not working. They had drained it and tried to wash curtains again. They suggested must be something wrong with machine before they came.

New boiler and pump making noise every hour at night. I rang my plumber. Could be leak or faulty ball cock meaning tank refilling all the time. He was away for weekend he agreed to call Tuesday or Wednesday. Today they ring me that trip switch for pump keeps tripping. I told them I'd pass on the info. And try and get him there tomorrow. Now they want him before they go to work between 6.30 and 8am. Tradesmen don't work those hours. I've asked if they can access the apartment during the day in the interest of getting this fixed. No as they want their privacy respected.

I know there are issues but am I'm trying to get them sorted, am I being unreasonable in terms of access.

They put in curtains, which shouldn't be in a washing machine anyway (like who in the name of god puts curtains in a washing machine) and break the machine. They then put them in again!!!!

I'd be thinking of getting rid of them to be honeat and getting in tenants capable of looking after a house and ones who aren't just down right awkward and demanding.

punisher5112

They can't refuse entry if emergency or remedial work is needed.

They can agree a time that suits but the hours you state is a no go for sure unless you could get someone but highly doubt it.

Tell them if they need jobs done you need access.

I would recommend in writing by text, via email and or a letter.

Leave it to them so they can't say you wouldn't do it.

The_Conductor

Baby01032012 wrote: »

New tenants just moved in.

Decided to wash living room curtains in the washing machine. These are large heavy long curtains for 3 windows. They ring to let me know. Curtains are stuck mid cycle with drum full of water. Can't switch off or restart or drain. I'm getting make so I can find out manufacturer and agent. If machine is broken and curtains damaged who's liability? Washing machine is relatively new.

These people have just moved in.
They are still within their first 6 months.
They are behaving inappropriately and in an unreasonable manner.
Give them their notice and terminate the tenancy.
Sorry- they put the curtains back in the washing machine?
Really?
Any now they're complaining about the heating system- but refusing reasonable access to the unit to have it assessed and repaired.

Whatever about getting confused over the washing machine- to deliberately continue trying to break the machine- and to refuse reasonable repair work- honestly- it sounds like they are trying to thrash the place- and blame you for it at the same time- perhaps to take a case with the RTB.

Do absolutely everything by the book- but if it is possible to terminate the tenancy- do it- these people sound like nightmares.

If you cannot or will not terminate the tenancy- offer them a Saturday appointment for the heating- be fair and reasonable- but do the whole lot in writing- you may very well need a paper trail down the road.

jamesthepeach

Another vote here for handing them their notice.
If they are on your ass like this already and acting like they are, then imagine what they'll be like when you can't get rid of them. Which is not too far away.
Act now.

TheChizler

Have you figured out the dry weight of the curtains yet? Does the label say they're not machine washable? Have they successfully used the machine for anything else yet or is it possible the machine is broken since the last tenant?

Ms Doubtfire1

agree with handing them their notice.They are completely unreasonable and by all means, if you have a problem with a laundry / washing machine the first time round, you're not going to do the exact same thing again and expect different results?? That is - as per Einstein (me thinks) the definition of insanity. You don't want insane tenants!!!

Baby01032012

Update

On Saturday they told me about water pump issue where starting up every 10 minutes. Spoke to plumber who was away for long weekend. Would try to get there Tuesday or Wednesday. Sunday/Monday it got worse. Pump leaked tripped the circuit switch and stopped working then short circuited while switch board yesterday so no water or sockets.
I could only reach plumber this afternoon trying to arrange for plumber and electrician to go there this evening. I'll go as well.
Had tenant on numerous times today as to when it will be sorted. I appreciate its huge inconvenience but I'm trying to get plumber asap.

punisher5112

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Update

On Saturday they told me about water pump issue where starting up every 10 minutes. Spoke to plumber who was away for long weekend. Would try to get there Tuesday or Wednesday. Sunday/Monday it got worse. Pump leaked tripped the circuit switch and stopped working then short circuited while switch board yesterday so no water or sockets.
I could only reach plumber this afternoon trying to arrange for plumber and electrician to go there this evening. I'll go as well.
Had tenant on numerous times today as to when it will be sorted. I appreciate its huge inconvenience but I'm trying to get plumber asap.

So how you get on??

REXER

_Brian wrote: »

I saw in a local FaceBook group my tenant was looking for advice on how to taken down and clean a roller blind.

Some of the suggestions were manic and she was taking them all on board.

It was unprofessional but I just posted.

"That's my roller blind, please don't do this"

I got a text as apology within minutes and no problems since.

Sounds very much like stalking!:eek:

robp

As someone who has lived in Germany for years I can say the German model has a lot going for it. Household appliances are cheap. It is not a hassle.

737max wrote: »

wally79 wrote: »

Yeah that's the reason

Yes, it is.  professional landlords have a product they can market at a more lower price as they have fewer inputs and for tenants buying or moving furniture at the start of the tenancy is a natural part of tenancy process.  
The product is returned to white-wall condition at the end of a longer lease period to the benefit of both renter and landlord.

Do you have any experience of the German rental model?  You haven't disclosed anything that suggests that you do.  If not it might come as a shock to you to know that most German rental apartments don't even have an EBK.

tay

Baby01032012

Update

Had plumber and electrician working for last 2 days to replace faulty new pump and faulty new Emerson and fuse board which had burnt it self out...none of the tenants fault I may ad.

The washing machine....Tuesday it wouldn't start at all. Service centre told me it was low water pressure so down to the faulty pump. Plumber rang me at 8..everything fixed, washer back up and running. Shortly after tenant texts to say it's stopping before draining again.

I couldn't leave them with no washing machine for another night. Went out at 9 bought new machine. Brought it there plumbed it in and took old machine away. Put on small wash and new machine stops at same point as old one.

I'll be calling plumber this morning to find out what the hell is going on. Has to be plumbing not machine and not tenant.

TheChizler

Good on ya for being so responsive to the situation.

punisher5112

Water pressure could well be an issue.

Excellent result for tenants getting all that work done.

Everywhere I got they wouldn't even clean the property before we would move in.. If anything broke they wouldn't even get back.