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Deputy Principal Position

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  • 04-08-2017 1:57pm
    #1
    Werty00
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    Hi All,

    Long-term lurker, new poster! A DP position has been advertised in a school not far from me. Just wondering what the application rate is for DP posts; I know a few years ago it was hard to fill them, but have things changed? Is there a lot of competition? Also, I'm young and not sure would this go against me, although I have good and varied experience. Wondering really is it worth my while applying? Thanks!


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    #2
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Werty00 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Long-term lurker, new poster! A DP position has been advertised in a school not far from me. Just wondering what the application rate is for DP posts; I know a few years ago it was hard to fill them, but have things changed? Is there a lot of competition? Also, I'm young and not sure would this go against me, although I have good and varied experience. Wondering really is it worth my while applying? Thanks!

    Do you have a master's in school leadership? You need this for most positions and especially if you are young.


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    #3
    Werty00
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Werty00


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Do you have a master's in school leadership? You need this for most positions and especially if you are young.

    I do have both an M. Ed and a Postgrad Dip in Leadership, but I've never had a post of responsibility (mainly due to the fact that these posts were not advertised during my time spent in school). Thanks!


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    #4
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Werty00 wrote: »
    I do have both an M. Ed and a Postgrad Dip in Leadership, but I've never had a post of responsibility (mainly due to the fact that these posts were not advertised during my time spent in school). Thanks!

    Check out lay of land, you could end up in a dp position with an impotent principal and you doing the job of 2.


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    #5
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    You don't need to be in a post and the MEd is only a recommendation but not a requirement. Always check out the politics of the school and also if its financially worth getting it. Get help from someone already through the interview process, you'd be surprised how complex it is and practice will get you through it well.


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    #6
    Werty00
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Werty00


    TheDriver wrote: »
    You don't need to be in a post and the MEd is only a recommendation but not a requirement. Always check out the politics of the school and also if its financially worth getting it. Get help from someone already through the interview process, you'd be surprised how complex it is and practice will get you through it well.

    Thanks to all for the advice so far. Financially for me, it would be worth it, not by a huge amount but still significant. If I do get called for interview, I plan on getting some interview coaching but am not sure if it would be better to go through a professional careers service or to try and contact former principals and ask them?


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    #7
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    The latter. Anyone I know who did the former was not as well prepared and cost quite a bit


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    #8
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Recently a school had a DP job going and the short listing process required a Masters to be called for interview.


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    #9
    mengele
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭mengele


    TheDriver wrote: »
    You don't need to be in a post and the MEd is only a recommendation but not a requirement. Always check out the politics of the school and also if its financially worth getting it. Get help from someone already through the interview process, you'd be surprised how complex it is and practice will get you through it well.

    In the long term is it better to do a Master's in School Leadership or a Masters of Education when going for deputy roles?


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    #10
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    mengele wrote: »
    In the long term is it better to do a Master's in School Leadership or a Masters of Education when going for deputy roles?

    Yes but its the first time I have seen it as a requirement. Obviously majority of candidates had it. For DP and P roles, I wouldn't be shortlisting on these things but prefer to meet everyone to get a good idea of who would suit the role best. A Masters might mean the best person for the job long term is excluded.


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    #11
    mengele
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭mengele


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Yes but its the first time I have seen it as a requirement. Obviously majority of candidates had it. For DP and P roles, I wouldn't be shortlisting on these things but prefer to meet everyone to get a good idea of who would suit the role best. A Masters might mean the best person for the job long term is excluded.

    Sorry I meant to ask which of those Masters would be seen as the better one to have if going for that role?


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    #12
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Oh a masters in school leadership as an MEd will be standard Dip soon and could also involve any area of expertise.


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    #13
    fall
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭fall


    I know someone who recently got a deputy principal position with no management course and they only had an A post six months. It wasn't even in their own school and they are mid thirties so apply anyway, it can't do any harm. I don't think it matters if it's a masters or diploma once it's in educational leadership or management. I got my position and I had completed the Toraiocht course which is a diploma.


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    #14
    mengele
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭mengele


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Oh a masters in school leadership as an MEd will be standard Dip soon and could also involve any area of expertise.

    Thanks. So what do people who do Masters of Education hope to do after they have it? To go work for the department/College?

    Obviously they could still stay teaching but what other avenues would it open up?


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    #15
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Every new "dip" is an MEd. For elective MEd, most do it forinterest and looks good on cv for promotional posts or roles in other areas such as ncca or sec


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    #16
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I personally don't have any interest in, or experience of, applying for DP but many of my colleagues are applying over the past year or so (several have been successful) and there is constant talk about it in work. They see the "winning combination" in our own ETB as being MEd as well as a leadership qualification, whether diploma or masters. They report a strong emphasis on leading the learning and therefore MEd research qualifications. Those we know with only leadership qualifications have not been successful. There are no DPs or principals in any of our schools without a masters though.


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    #17
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    The constant stream of people doing masters in leadership which involve them doing initiatives in staffrooms is driving me a little nuts


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    #18
    mengele
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭mengele


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Every new "dip" is an MEd. For elective MEd, most do it forinterest and looks good on cv for promotional posts or roles in other areas such as ncca or sec

    I was under the impression that every new dip was PME Professional Masters in Education and that the MEd is a Masters of Education or are they really just both the same thing with different names?


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    #19
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ethical


    Surely a "hyped -up 2 yr dip " is no where near Masters level!


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    #20
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ethical


    I would agree that there are quite a few teachers part taking in Masters studies,remember there is no extra money for this since we sold out to the Bankers!

    Some Etbs (especially) are hell bent on "giving" P and DP posts to younger and younger candidates who may have the studies done but have NIL experience of dealing with students and parents in the real world and I know of quite a few instances where schools are faring badly,infact ,anarchy and breakdown in some cases.........."everyone wants the job but no one wants to do the work"!


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    #21
    thefasteriwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭thefasteriwalk


    Santos Future Wolverine wrote: »
    I personally don't have any interest in, or experience of, applying for DP but many of my colleagues are applying over the past year or so (several have been successful) and there is constant talk about it in work. They see the "winning combination" in our own ETB as being MEd as well as a leadership qualification, whether diploma or masters. They report a strong emphasis on leading the learning and therefore MEd research qualifications. Those we know with only leadership qualifications have not been successful. There are no DPs or principals in any of our schools without a masters though.

    That's interesting. I think ours is going the same way. My colleague has just been appointed as DP without a post or any leadership qualifications, but she's moving from ETB to voluntary.


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    #22
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    ethical wrote: »
    I would agree that there are quite a few teachers part taking in Masters studies,remember there is no extra money for this since we sold out to the Bankers!

    Some Etbs (especially) are hell bent on "giving" P and DP posts to younger and younger candidates who may have the studies done but have NIL experience of dealing with students and parents in the real world and I know of quite a few instances where schools are faring badly,infact ,anarchy and breakdown in some cases.........."everyone wants the job but no one wants to do the work"!

    This is more to do with pull than them having qualifications.


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    #23
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    mengele wrote: »
    I was under the impression that every new dip was PME Professional Masters in Education and that the MEd is a Masters of Education or are they really just both the same thing with different names?

    They're different... by a few thousand words and the type of research which can be undertaken for the dissertation/thesis.


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    #24
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    I would consider the MEd to be a more advanced qualification than the PME. Not saying it's the exact same level as the PGDE\Hdip as it has a research component. But it is still under the MEd.


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    #25
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    I wonder will the MEd die out due to lack of demand.
    The only post PME level 9 qualification left will be MEd in Leadership and Management. Maybe there'll be other specialised ones for people staying within 3Rd level academia.


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    #26
    chases0102
    Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭chases0102


    For anyone aspiring to a DP or P role in future, the paucity of A Posts becoming available in some schools will damage their credentials - is there a way of getting around this? Would any informal 'initiative leading' be of any use to them when applying?


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    #27
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    A way around this is to ensure you have plenty of "leading" in other areas e.g. GAA club chairperson, youth leader in scouts etc etc


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    #28
    pandoraj09
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭pandoraj09


    TheDriver wrote: »
    A way around this is to ensure you have plenty of "leading" in other areas e.g. GAA club chairperson, youth leader in scouts etc etc

    Yes but what do you put on the part of the Application Form that asks you to list the extra qualifications you have in leadership...? I've a degree and a Dip and 30 years experience. I was Captain of a big sports club and I have other non-academic leadership experience...But I'd have to leave that part of the Application form blank and that obviously looks terrible...


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    #29
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    chases0102 wrote: »
    For anyone aspiring to a DP or P role in future, the paucity of A Posts becoming available in some schools will damage their credentials - is there a way of getting around this? Would any informal 'initiative leading' be of any use to them when applying?

    I think 11 of my colleagues have become DPs over the past 18 months or so. Only two had posts - one an A post and one a B post. All were/had been year heads though, and most had done other leadership roles such as TY coordinator, DEIS coordinator. The people getting the jobs have done the work for free.


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    #30
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ethical


    I say SHAME ON THEM!,DOING THE WORK FOR NOTHING,Thats why the teaching profession has gone the way it has!! Arse-licking and mé féinism!! It saddens me to look around the many classrooms and see"wet sheets of paper,because thats all they are with no personality and damn all else but "Yes people"..................the profession is getting what it deserves and we will be soon like the UK!


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    #31
    Notorious
    Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    Santos Future Wolverine wrote: »
    ...The people getting the jobs have done the work for free.

    The union are calling for members to blow whistles on any of this happening. I get that people are happy to do the work for free to gain experience or promotion opportunities. Though with the supposed reintroduction of A posts to schools, this might not be an issue for much longer.


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