Dublin's "stonehenge" - controversy over metal maintenance boxes along new LUAS route

hatrickpatrick

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/anger-over-appalling-cabinets-named-dublin-s-mini-stonehenge-1.3173839

Groups of metal cabinets, described by some as appearing like a “mini-Stonehenge” or a “collection of milk cartons” have been springing up across Dublin city along the route of the new Luas Cross City line.
The boxes, which house electrical cabling and other equipment associated with the new tram line due to start operating at the end of this year, are causing consternation among city heritage and environmental groups.
Particular concern has been raised over the collection of cabinets at College Green where Dublin City Council plans to build a €10 million “world class” pedestrian and cycle plaza.
The five cabinets, which vary in height from 2ft to 5ft, have replaced bicycle parking on the southern corner of College Green opposite Trinity College and do not appear in the designs for the new traffic-free civic plaza submitted to An Bord Pleanála last May.

Full article includes comments from DCC and from the LUAS company.

First off, I'm somewhat reserving judgment on this until I've had a chance to see that area myself in the light of day - I haven't been down that way recently except at night, and I'm well aware of how photographs can paint a very distorted picture of reality in terms of scale, angles, etc (particularly when taken by journalists trying to validate a story).

Has anyone seen these clusters, and are they really as bad as the article makes them out to be? If the photo is accurate, it does seem a bit mad to have them organised in the manner that they are, with the seemingly random size differentials and lack of symmetry with how they're placed. I also wonder is it really necessary to have so many separate ones instead of a few bigger ones?

Beyond that, the article does raise a good point. Why don't we put any effort into making things look half way decent anymore? I mean hell, any colour would be better than that awful grimy-grey they've used, and you just know it's going to look a lot worse once muppets start sticking gum and labels all over it. Could they not go for green, or even paint them in alternating colours of the Irish flag or something? Or have / let someone design something and paint it over the box? Will the engineers be too dumbfounded by anything other than bland grey to be able to open the box and get to work in the event of an incident?

It strikes me that there are a thousand different ways you could house cabling etc other than a simple monochrome rectangular box. I just punched in "street electrical box design" (no quotes) on Google Images and got these, for example:



Is there any reason we can't do something similar here? It strikes me that this is yet another example of a total failure on the part of planners, councils and public architects in Ireland to take aesthetic into account in any way whatsoever. I mean we can cite numerous examples of this - the concrete storm surge barriers which caused so much consternation in Clontarf a year or two ago, the horrendous overcast colouring of Grafton St since the red brick was removed, the bland and billboard-ridden green spiked fences surrounding disused council-owned sites around the city, etc - at what point will they start to actually care about designing things that aren't total eyesores?

odyssey06

They are a monstrosity. They are needlessly spread out. They are not aligned symmetrically.
They would be acceptable at the back of a building, not in an area of historic importance such as College Green.

To care about "designing things that aren't total eyesores" you have to care about the city and feel some connection to the people who inhabit it. I don't get that from DCC whatsoever. The vibe I get is what the people who inhabit it are a complication to DCC and they feel their lives would be a lot easier if we all just stopped complaining and disappeared.

I have seen them and they do look terrible. One you would easily ignore, but it looks like theyve all been added as an after thought to each other. Like they installed one, then realised they needed another, then realised they needed another smaller one. So they got added, one after the other higgledy piggledy.

It strikes me that this is yet another example of a total failure on the part of planners, councils and public architects

Its definitely a failing. Whose, Im not sure, Transdev I think. Of course they need somewhere to join up wiring, and connect everything, but I don't think having 7 boxes that look like wheelie bins with no wheels would have been approved were they on the original plans, and as I said above, they look like they were added as an after thought.

Considering you need planning permission to erect a headstone in a cemetary, it seems a bit off the wall that you can erect not one but seven unsightly boxes of varying colours next to Trinity right in the city centre.

Edit: You have to love the two traffic cones beside them in the picture above. Left there permanently in a city where its never windy and where they won't get nicked.

humberklog

There'd be little point in painting them before work in the area is finished. I don't think there's a box unpainted in the city (it was a good idea and is working well).

The cluster at college green would have been difficult to make more aesthetically pleasing, more uniform and less conspicuous​ but it could and should have been executed better.

However it'll now be hugely difficult to correct as the ducting feeding each box, preexisting service ducting and drainage would be a nightmare to go back into. The time to do it right was when they had the cut open.

It's an unsightly balls up that'll take some imagination to rectify.

Dyr

humberklog wrote: »

There'd be little point in painting them before work in the area is finished. I don't think there's a box unpainted in the city (it was a good idea and is working well).
.

I thought it was a good idea at the time but some of the dross that was painted on them makes me wonder now

tricky D

They could have put the whole lot into something like the street kiosks you get in Paris.

humberklog

tricky D wrote: »

They could have put the whole lot into something like the street kiosks you get in Paris.

I thought that too however apparently most of the boxes require visual to their allocated service. For e.g a traffic light service engineer needs to be able to see from the service box to the relevant set of lights with ease of physical access between pole and box.
I only found this out recently when someone was explaining the reason for having them on street.

amtc

I had reason to do some research into legalties of planning for such things recently. It is an absolute nightmare

LionelNashe

I think that they should lay them flat as part of the redevelopment of the plaza, and cover them in a wooden casing, so that they function as a number of benches/seats for people.

tricky D

humberklog wrote: »

I thought that too however apparently most of the boxes require visual to their allocated service. For e.g a traffic light service engineer needs to be able to see from the service box to the relevant set of lights with ease of physical access between pole and box.
I only found this out recently when someone was explaining the reason for having them on street.

That could possibly be solved with some thinking outside the box.

Yeah, I know, apols.

Cookie_Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

Its definitely a failing. Whose, Im not sure, Transdev I think. Of course they need somewhere to join up wiring, and connect everything, but I don't think having 7 boxes that look like wheelie bins with no wheels would have been approved were they on the original plans, and as I said above, they look like they were added as an after thought. .

transdev only operate the service and have nothing to do with the infrastructure.
surely a single larger cabinet or flush with the ground opening would have been possible with a bit of thought actually put into it.

Separate to all the the article notes they weren't in the original drawings for planning permission anyway, so they shouldn't be allowed remain regardless. THe Luas construction team need to come up with something that matches the original planning application and scope.

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

transdev only operate the service and have nothing to do with the infrastructure.
surely a single larger cabinet or flush with the ground opening would have been possible with a bit of thought actually put into it.

Separate to all the the article notes they weren't in the original drawings for planning permission anyway, so they shouldn't be allowed remain regardless. THe Luas construction team need to come up with something that matches the original planning application and scope.

I assumed Transdev were running the Luas construction/integration. My bad.

Take the coffee kiosk on Leeson Street. A small building surrounded by larger buildings. Build something like that, put all your cabinets inside it, voila! Don't, obviously make it out of unpainted breezeblocks so it looks like a soviet era bomb shelter, but as another poster said, a little bit of thought and this would be a non-issue.

However, a spokeswoman for the Luas Cross City project said all of the cabinets were necessary and could not be relocated or housed underground.

If the spokeswoman for the Luas Cross City project had any sense she would have said "Don't judge until the project is complete", which would have given the project time to camouflage the boxes at the very least. Clearly, the plan is, if there is a plan, is to leave them as they are, uncamouflaged and wave the banner of "They are necessary".

cameramonkey

Does anyone know were they in the original planning application?

HONKEY TONK

That looks like a very Irish thing to do lol.


Who ever was involved in that just didn't give a sh!t.

hmmm

I find it a pretty hostile city for pedestrians. Pavements aren't wide enough, paving itself is a mess, traffic light sequences are too short, lots of clutter, tables and other shop stuff everywhere.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

I find it a pretty hostile city for pedestrians. Pavements aren't wide enough, paving itself is a mess, traffic light sequences are too short, lots of clutter, tables and other shop stuff everywhere.

Don't go to Naples(Napoli).

crushproof

Back in Dublin for a few days and while I was happy to see the works almost completed I was pretty disappointed with the finished look.

Does anyone in this country know anything about public realm design? Those boxes could easily be situated in a more hidden place and/or covered with some sort of information booth. Heck I wouldn't even mind if they were covered with an attractive advertising board. 
Also what were they thinking with the wiring and associated poles. Why couldn't the wires be attached to existing buildings similar to most European cities. The motorway style poles have been plonked down almost in the middle of the path along Bank of Ireland (of course the surrounding infilled with tarmac and the heritage paving stone taken away). Fair enough in the suburbs or other parts of the inner city but on College Green it's a joke. It's just more street clutter, which Dublin seems to love.
Honestly I despair at the state of the city. It could be so much f**ing better looking if some effort was put in but it feels so pointless complaining.

Gloomtastic!

Borrowed from YLYL thread.....

Victor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Jack_ngton/status/893078539402178560

Red Alert

People are talking like these boxes are just here for the craic...

There are a few different systems involved: the traffic controllers, the LUAS's AVLS for tram location, tram-stop equipment cabinet and the cabinets associated with the overhead supply. All of this stuff is actually necessary for the tramway to function.

Firstly, burying the equipment inside them underground makes it vulnerable to water ingress and makes it hard to service or repair. Putting them inside buildings or in private spaces leads to access issues in an emergency. Next, the low voltage stuff like the AVLS (that powers the Real-Time displays and announcements) and the high-voltage stuff for the overhead supply need to be in separate cabinets from a safety point-of-view. The AVLS boxes then need to be adjacent to the city council's boxes for the traffic lights as they need to be able to communicate. Then the tram stops themselves have a largish cabinet that contains the equipment to drive the screens, network hubs for the ticket machines, amplifiers and interface for the trackside public address, CCTV equipment.

odyssey06

Red Alert wrote: »

People are talking like these boxes are just here for the craic...
There are a few different systems involved: the traffic controllers, the LUAS's AVLS for tram location, tram-stop equipment cabinet and the cabinets associated with the overhead supply. All of this stuff is actually necessary for the tramway to function.

Do you really think they've done the best job they can with the layout and presentation of these cabinets?
Have you seen them deployed in a more discreet manner in other tram systems?

My car has lots of components actualy necessary for its function... yet most of the time I don't see the exhaust or engine parts and the bonnet blends in with the rest of the car.

HeidiHeidi

That picture in the OP is the most depressing thing I've seen in quite a while.

Is that really and truly the best design solution they could come up with for the slap-bang-in-the-middle-of-town, high-profile, tourist-(and native-)filled area of Dublin that they hope to make into a showpiece plaza?

Really???

:mad:

(A small bit of me hopes that they were just thrown up in an effort to get the whole Luas line up and running, but a large bit of me knows that they'll never, ever be changed - once they're there something else will become a priority and they'll never be looked at again. I really hope I'm wrong.)

strandroad

Who is responsible for them in terms of institutions?
And for the shocking tarmac work around them?

Dr Crayfish

Found moar on Dawson st today

fly_agaric

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Found moar on Dawson st today

Is that in front of a pedestrian crossing? At least it will keep blind people on their toes, maybe that's the idea.
You can never have too much random sh** growing out of Dublin city centre footpaths (illegal cafe/pub furniture and signs, "ghost" poles with nothing on them etc!). One of the features of the city so good to see its been carried on with new infrastructure.

hatrickpatrick

What's this whole business of having a neat row of them and then having a random separate one away at some angle from the rest?

tampopo

Money was diverted from cycling budget and given to building the luas cross city. Then they removed cycle parking in College Green. Marvelous, just marvelous.

Dr Crayfish

tampopo wrote: »

Money was diverted from cycling budget and given to building the luas cross city. Then they removed cycle parking in College Green. Marvelous, just marvelous.

The parking for bikes is gone from pearse st Garda station too. I think thieves used to stay away from that spot many times I left a bike there for a few days unharmed.

The_B_Man

Sorry in advance for picking apart your post. I don't mean any offence. Just trying to get a discussion going.

Red Alert wrote: »

Firstly, burying the equipment inside them underground makes it vulnerable to water ingress and makes it hard to service or repair.

Water, fair enough. Although you'd think in 2017 there'd be a way to get around that, especially in Ireland!
In terms of being hard to service and repair, sure its people's job to do this. Sometimes your job is easy, sometimes its hard. It's what you get paid for. I'd rather some lad having an extra bit of hassle serving this particular LUAS stop (or a few city ones), than have Dublin look bad to tourists.

Red Alert wrote: »

Putting them inside buildings or in private spaces leads to access issues in an emergency.

It was more about putting them flush with a building, rather than in the middle of a walkway.

Red Alert wrote: »

Next, the low voltage stuff like the AVLS (that powers the Real-Time displays and announcements) and the high-voltage stuff for the overhead supply need to be in separate cabinets from a safety point-of-view.
The AVLS boxes then need to be adjacent to the city council's boxes for the traffic lights as they need to be able to communicate.

So thats 3 cabinets. All about 5 foot tall. What sort of 1980's technology are they using that it takes up that much room? Unless they're mostly empty space, in which case they'd be much better served as 3 boxes about 1foot tall, side by side, with a bit of wood on top and made into a bench.

Red Alert wrote: »

Then the tram stops themselves have a largish cabinet that contains the equipment to drive the screens, network hubs for the ticket machines, amplifiers and interface for the trackside public address, CCTV equipment.

Would the screen need much power? Its a low res monochrome LED screen.
The network hub might use a bit more power, but everyone has seen racks of them just plugged into wall sockets (via UPS) so wiring up a plug would do that.
The ticket machines are large, but thats mostly for security, so they can be run off a small computer.
The sound system would be the same. Just needs a plug and a bit of wiring.
The CCTV cameras might be powered over ethernet.
So with a bit of cable management, they could be manageable in a much smaller size. I think that extra work should definitely be done for the city stops. The suburban ones beside me have the boxes away from the stop if there's any extra land behind, which is grand. But they're also not walkways so that doesn't really matter.

Another thing that strikes me is all the boxes are different shapes and colours. If they were all a uniform size, shape and colour, with "Luas Control Boxes" stencilled on the side, they would still be an eye sore, but they'd be a uniform eye sore. If they were part of the original plan, you'd expect there to be a warehouse somewhere with a load of cabinets of the same size and colour for this purpose. Instead it looks like someone was sent down to the "Big Metal Cabinet" shop, and told to buy whatever was on special offer.

hmmm

fly_agaric wrote: »

At least it will keep blind people on their toes, maybe that's the idea.

It appears to be some form of barricade. I like the one at knee height, just perfect to fall over if you're blind.

TallGlass

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's this whole business of having a neat row of them and then having a random separate one away at some angle from the rest?

Maybe a legacy cabinet, maybe interference from the others, maybe just not giving a ****é (I would say this one).

Do you not have to get planning from DCC for these things? Surely you can't just wack a load of steel boxes as you please around the place? Therefore someone in DCC approved this.

Also, can they not building them into something or place them inside a building, you know like mobile phone masts, they have equipment nice and tidied away for the most part.