Very intelligent 5 year old starting school and some concerns

_Kaiser_

Hey all,

So my 5 year old son is starting junior infants this September, but thinking about it tonight with his mother, we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him

Don't get me wrong, it's not that we thinks he's a Mensa genius, but when he was seen at age 3 by the public health nurse, she also commented on how advanced he was for age.

Since then:

- He can already count to 100 and beyond (the maths book, which he went through entirely tonight, he referred to as "easy-peasy")

- He can add, subtract, count backwards and is starting to work out simple multiplication. He also aware of the cost of things and can work things out like how much change he should get

- He has an excellent memory

- He's starting to ask how to spell things, reading along in books, and writing simple things like "hi" without prompting

- Comparing him to a friend's child who's 9 months younger shows a massive difference between them. Our little fella prefers to play with his older sister (10) and older kids in general

- He's interested in things like countries and where they are

- He has a very defined personality, sense of humor, confidence. Forever asks questions about everything

- Even in other things he seems ahead - his playschool report mentions how he has a very developed sense of fairness, humour and one-liners, witty, clever and caring

etc..

So the concern is that if the standard of Junior Infants is things like being able to count to 5 (from talking to the teacher) that he will very quickly become bored and frustrated, and given that the whole concept of things like having to sit down and pay attention in a classroom setting will be new to him as well, it's quite likely that this boredom and frustration will be misinterpreted by a busy teacher trying to keep 25 other kids in-line, and result in further problems as they go through the year.

So what do we do? Should we talk to the teacher in advance, maybe the principal, or should we be looking to get his intelligence assessed to try and work out how we and the school can best support him? I've had a look online but most of the sites are US/UK and there doesn't seem to be much for this in Ireland (a link I found to the Department site leads to a page that no longer exists)

Any advice, suggestions or experience would be much appreciated!

NapoleonInRags

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hey all,

So my 5 year old son is starting junior infants this September, but thinking about it tonight with his mother, we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him

Don't get me wrong, it's not that we thinks he's a Mensa genius, but when he was seen at age 3 by the public health nurse, she also commented on how advanced he was for age.

Since then:

- He can already count to 100 and beyond (the maths book, which he went through entirely tonight, he referred to as "easy-peasy")

- He can add, subtract, count backwards and is starting to work out simple multiplication

- He has an excellent memory

- He's starting to ask how to spell things, reading along in books, and writing simple things like "hi" without prompting

- Comparing him to a friend's child who's 9 months younger shows a massive difference between them. Out little fella prefers to play with his older sister (10) and older kids in general

- He's interested in things like countries and where they are

- He has a very defined personality, sense of humor, confidence. Forever asks questions about everything

- Even in other things he seems ahead - his playschool report mentions how he has a very developed sense of fairness, humour and one-liners, witty, clever and caring

etc..

So the concern is that if the standard of Junior Infants is things like being able to count to 5 (from talking to the teacher) that he will very quickly become bored and frustrated, and given that the whole concept of things like having to sit down and pay attention in a classroom setting will be new to him as well, it's quite likely that this boredom and frustration will be misinterpreted by a busy teacher trying to keep 25 other kids in-line, and result in further problems as they go through the year.

So what do we do? Should we talk to the teacher in advance, maybe the principal, or should we be looking to get his intelligence assessed to try and work out how we and the school can best support him? I've had a look online but most of the sites are US/UK and there doesn't seem to be much for this in Ireland (a link I found to the Department site leads to a page that no longer exists)

Any advice, suggestions or experience would be much appreciated!

To be honest I think he sounds normal enough for a bright five year old. I wouldn't worry - any boredom he feels academically at school will be compensated for by the social aspect of school or by extra activities at home.

tedpan

He's very special

Senna

Come on, what do you think other 5 years olds are like, banging rocks together and barking at the moon??

_Kaiser_

Senna wrote: »

Come on, what do you think other 5 years olds are like, banging rocks together and barking at the moon??

Well I know that it might sound like "proud Daddy syndrome" but as I say, if the expectation in school is things like being able to count to 5, then I can just see him getting bored and frustrated.

It's hard to describe on a message board but watching him playing with other kids of similar age, he just seems further ahead in many ways. The fact that this has been mentioned previously by others too is why I'm thinking about whether or not we should be doing more to support him and encourage these skills.

pah

Who told you junior infants was counting to 5?

SCOOP 64

I don't know, but im impressed.

_Kaiser_

pah wrote: »

Who told you junior infants was counting to 5?

The teacher. If they can do that great she said, but they'll be learning that stuff through songs and such anyway. Similarly other things like learning the alphabet and associating letters with sound and thus other words etc.

Again I'm not saying he's a Mensa genius, just that in some respects, he seems noticeably further ahead.

Guffy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well I know that it might sound like "proud Daddy syndrome" but as I say, if the expectation in school is things like being able to count to 5, then I can just see him getting bored and frustrated.

It's hard to describe on a message board but watching him playing with other kids of similar age, he just seems further ahead in many ways. The fact that this has been mentioned previously by others too is why I'm thinking about whether or not we should be doing more to support him and encourage these skills.

Junior infants is far more than counting to five tbf.

There is also the social element to it. Your child needs to be able to interact with children his own age. If he doesnt learn it now, it will be more difficult when he's older.

My own son would have been at your childs level ability wise (bar the multiplication tbf) but he loved every day of school. He gets to show off his smarts to the teacher and he gets to play football about friends.

Senna

Nearly all kids go to play school now with the free year, they are taught so much more than you assume, a 3 yr old can count to 5, hell my 3 year old can count to 20 without a problem, they are taught writing (simple stuff) and although to me she's the smartest child since Einstein, I don't actually think she's more advanced, yes she might be ahead of some kids, but maybe she's behind in other areas?
But if this is all you have to worry about, suppose you're very lucky, your kid sounds smart and I'm sure he'll love school.

Dial Hard

If he's particularly advanced, his teachers will pick up on it an act accordingly if it's warranted. My niece was just turning four starting school because her playschool teacher recognised that she was going to be wasted there, spoke to her local school and arranged for her to start school a year early.

On the flip side of the coin, her principal in secondary thought that 15 was going to be far too young to be going into 6th year so really, really pushed transition year on them, even though she didn't want to do it. And he was right.

Pinkycharm

Teachers are trained to teach kids like him in a mixed ability classroom so don't worry, if he is a gifted learner the teacher will see this straight away and give him work to do at his level while others are doing their work. Even extra homework or harder homework and you can ask her for that. I would calm down with the learning at home at this stage though because you don't want him bored the whole way up. Try get him into extra curricular If you can to relax his mind off the academic side. He must have done loads in pre school, sometimes they can over prepare them. My fella has just gone four and can write his name and do most of the other letters and numbers and it pissed me off that they had started it as early because of being bored later. Definitely don't go forward with books, my advice is let the teacher figure it out, it's their job Grow his social side.

Tom Mann Centuria

Just let him get his feet under the desk first op. Micro management of all the ifs, buts, and maybes a 5 year old may encounter, is the path to madness and helicopter parenting.

gitzy16v

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well I know that it might sound like "proud Daddy syndrome" but as I say, if the expectation in school is things like being able to count to 5, then I can just see him getting bored and frustrated.

It's hard to describe on a message board but watching him playing with other kids of similar age, he just seems further ahead in many ways. The fact that this has been mentioned previously by others too is why I'm thinking about whether or not we should be doing more to support him and encourage these skills.

Yes definitely support and encourage these skills more.
I have my 7 yr old reading books that are beyond his years and he loves it...He's heading into 1st class soon and they got to see the classroom and he came and told me that there is only 1 Roald Dahl book in the classroom,he asked his teacher is there anymore and she said that all there is....he proudly named out another 7!!!books and the teacher said he's too young for some of them.
Fcuk that!!!....he's well ahead of his peers at reading...stuff like storytelling not just monotone reading off a page....and why...its because of learning at home...let school do its stuff...yourself and his mam make up the shortfall.

You both seem to have done a good job already if the kids as advanced as you say...good job pal:)

Vince135792003

All teachers will endeavour to give children extension work that challenge them. For example I had a boy in my 4th class who was completing 6th class maths. While of course literacy and numeracy is vital, your child is going to be exposed to that and more in their early years. Learning through play, Aistear, working cooperatively with other children, drama, art, PE, music are just a small sample of what's in store. The experiences he will have will be filled with learning.

_Kaiser_

Thanks for all the feedback already folks.. much appreciated! Also impressed at how many people are online here at 1am on a Friday night

gitzy16v

Pinkycharm wrote: »

Teachers are trained to teach kids like him in a mixed ability classroom so don't worry, if he is a gifted learner the teacher will see this straight away and give him work to do at his level while others are doing their work. Even extra homework or harder homework and you can ask her for that. I would calm down with the learning at home at this stage though because you don't want him bored the whole way up. Try get him into extra curricular If you can to relax his mind off the academic side. He must have done loads in pre school, sometimes they can over prepare them. My fella has just gone four and can write his name and do most of the other letters and numbers and it pissed me off that they had started it as early because of being bored later. Definitely don't go forward with books, my advice is let the teacher figure it out, it's their job Grow his social side.

Cool...Thanks for your input...I went mad on the books because his reading was so good....but in fairness his social skills are excellent,im a separated dad,the boy has 2 sets of friends and no issues making and keeping friends so ive kinda encouraged what he was excelling at.

LionelNashe

He sounds like a very bright kid, but there's no point in worrying about a problem when there may be no problem. It's best to cross that bridge if you come to it. BTW, mensa level intelligence is not out-of-this-world intelligence. 1 person in 50 would qualify. So he may well be the brightest kid in his class, but with a bit of luck there will be 1 or 2 others to give him a bit of competition as he gets older.

Vince135792003

LionelNashe wrote: »

there's no point in worrying about a problem when there may be no problem.

Absolutely. He has at a minimum of 13 years of schooling ahead of him. Its a long journey. Enjoy the start. It's a special time for him and yee. There are definitely still flaws in the system today and certainly having a large class at a junior level with a myriad of needs and abilities is a big challenge for even the most skilled teacher. However, the subjects, experiences and activities children get exposed to today throughout their primary schooling are on a different level to when we were in school.

anais

As a teacher with more than 20 years experience, we spot both ends of the intelligence spectrum and differentiate accordingly. It's our job! As an aside my very intelligent 5 year old girl just finished junior infants. She can read fluently and her numbers skills are at a 1st class level. However, she has learned many many social skills like turn taking etc which as a 3rd child she has found difficult. As a friend of mine said , there are few kids who leave school not being able to read/write, let them enjoy it. Just encourage them to read LOTS at home😆

jlm29

The teacher will figure it out, and put her own plan in place. My 5 year old is very good in school, at the more academic stuff, but he has other areas that need work (his balance and coordination wouldn't be hectic). he now spends a bit of time several times a week with the resource teacher doing activities that help with coordination, etc, and probably misses out on some of the "counting to five".
Just let them at it! If there's any issues they'll be flagged to you at parent teacher meetings.

noble00

I wouldn't worry too much my son was the very same , met with the teacher at parents meeting and she asked would it be ok to give him extra stuff to do in class I had no problem with that, he is now 14 and not a bother on me as someone already said the teacher will pick up on it and give extra work if needed

Delphinium

My first son was reading and understanding from age 2. He just had an amazing ability with speech and reading. I noticed it first when he read the road signs before he was two. I just let him get on with it and supplied books. But we did lots of other activities as well. He also has a great imagination and was a great story teller. His sister was two years older and actually learnt to read from him and improved her vocabulary from listening to him chatter. His younger brother was also ahead with speech and reading but not to the same degree.

My brother also spoke very early and was an early reader. He was a good student all the way through but actually chose to work in an area where academic ability is not as important as creativity and patience.

Many children have these abilities and it is good to challenge them with lots of variety and maybe another language or a chess club or computer coding.
Teachers will do as much as they can but remember they have so many children, and such a range of abilities that it is difficult.
Don't treat him as "special". He should not feel superior to his peers. Encourage him to help others when they have a problem learning.

You sound like you have a very rounded child who will enjoy life and bring you great pleasure.

Unfortunately my son developed cancer and died before his eight birthday, so I don't know how he might have progressed. His understanding of the disease and it's consequences made it difficult to bear. He fully understood at the end that he was going to die and discussed it with his siblings.

They have grown into loving caring adults who remember him with love.

I now notice that my little grandson also has an extensive vocabulary for age 3 and picks up words easily. He can also describe events in great detail and repeat what he has heard. Makes for careful conversation in his presence!

One common factor in all the family is that books were always part of life and reading to children was routine. The newest generation have television and screen time rationed to age appropriate time but they do benefit from both.

_Kaiser_

Morning all,

Thanks again everyone for all your advice - it is genuinely much appreciated and some very good points made

Thanks especially as well to Delphinium above. I'm so sorry to hear about your own son but I appreciate you sharing your/his experiences.

shesty

When you say he can count to five do you mean he can count 1 to 5....or he can pick out 1,2,3,4,5 items from a box?

There's so much more to JI than what you think.Social skills.Independence....open your own lunch box, tie up your own coat, learn to sit and listen to others (a oft missed skill in today's society), learn to take an order (so to speak).Balance, coordination, ability to throw and catch, fine motor skills for writing (its why they thread beads on strings and the like).....everything is done with a very deliberate reason.Rhymes to improve language, clapping to improve rhythm and language... it all has a reason..Aside from anything else, he's not even there yet, so just see how it goes and deal with issues as they come up.

My own three year old is an avid reader (as was I) amd has a vocabulary of a five year old.I have no illusions about her though, we'll keep on the reading but there's a lot they have to learn as they grow.

Big Bag of Chips

Pinkycharm wrote: »

I would calm down with the learning at home at this stage though because you don't want him bored the whole way up. Try get him into extra curricular If you can to relax his mind off the academic side.

You see, I don't get this. Some children love soccer, or Lego or dancing etc. Some children love learning! If my child had a talent for soccer I'd be encouraged to encourage him. Whereas if a child has a talent for academics you're advised to "calm down with the learning"? Why?

My fella would have been like your fella, OP. He has thought himself to read before starting school from playing the Alphablocks game on the CBeebies website. He could add, subtract, multiply and divide. My mother told me exactly what this poster has said, about not teaching him too much because he'd be bored in school. He questioned things deeper than the average child would question things. We never taught him anything, but we did talk to him and answered any questions he asked us. If he asked us a question we didn't fob him off. Learning was his 'thing' the same way as sport, or music, or art is another child's thing.

I'm always amused at how people try to discourage an academic child and insist on getting them into extra curricular things, like sports. My child has no interest in sports! Her be miserable if I forced him into a soccer team! Same way as a child who hasn't a keen interest in learning would hate the idea of extra learning during the holidays!

OP, if your child is like mine, then he'll be fine in school. My lad loved learning, so even though he knew everything he was being taught in school, in school he was learning it in a different way to how he had taught himself. He has been lucky with (most of) his teachers in that they understood him and encouraged him to do things his own way.

At the moment my fella is 11 and is teaching himself maths concepts. My husband is a maths teacher and only last night said that he thinks he is a maths genius. He is asking questions and discussing concepts that are on the leaving cert curriculum, and he understands them.

Be thankful your child has the ability. School will never be a problem for him. Encourage him to read. Everything. It's where my fella learns everything. School is about more than just reading and writing though, so I don't think he'll be bored. It might always be easy for him, but better that than a child who is really struggling.

I get the impression you are leaning towards having him start at into an older class to suit his ability? I wouldn't advise that, at this age anyway. The social side of school and the rough and tumble of the yard is as much part of the experience as learning is. He might be a great lad now, but moving him up a few years he might struggle socially.

codrulz

In my opinion, he doesn't sound much different to the vast majority of five year olds. The majority of children start junior infants at the age of four, as your child has had an extra year to develop, I would expect him to at the level you describe. I acknowledge the fact that you said you don't think he's a Mensa genius, as by your description of him, he really isn't. I would recommend that you just go ahead and allow him to start in junior infants but if you think this in impeding his growth or too easy for him after a few weeks, you can always skip the Junior infants and do extra tuition at home. Just my two cents!

bee06

codrulz wrote: »

In my opinion, he doesn't sound much different to the vast majority of five year olds. The majority of children start junior infants at the age of four

Do they? I thought 5 was much more common now?

dar100

JI is more about life skills and socialising!! Taking jackets off, self care, mixing with others etc. Let your child be a child and stop projecting your desires onto him

NutmegGirl

Don't know where you're based geographically OP but if you're in/close to Dublin have a look at CTYI based in DCU
Think there might be one based in UCC in Cork too. It's the Centre for Talented Youth Ireland, deals with academically gifted kids. My daughter did the summer courses which are for teenagers but I know she told me that they also have programmes for younger kids at weekends during the year and over the summer. I don't know what age they start at though. Might be worth contacting them and chatting to them. I know they are of the opinion that being academically gifted can be as much a challenge as being at the other end of the spectrum and it's not as well dealt with funding wise as learning support would be, which isn't even anywhere near the level it should be.
I would agree with what most others have said here. Reading is def v important and there's nothing stopping you giving books for older kids, just to be aware they may be able to read the words but not understand what's going on due to age.
Also with regards to j infants, its prob the other things they do that are more important, depending on how many siblings etc they have, and how used they are to mixing. My daughter def did less in J infants than she had done in Montessori but learning to share/teamwork etc is important esp as v bright kids can be driven and possibly used to domineering siblings or other kids. Also they learn other things, e.g. my daughter would be v quick finishing work in school, being competitive wanting to be first, but as a result her handwriting was poor and also through speed would have maybe missed a section, even though the teacher would have known she knew it. So it's all these things that they learn in school, and if they were skipped ahead in a class, they could find themselves out of their depth v quickly socially. Teachers will def pick up though if kids need extra work.

Tigger

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback already folks.. much appreciated! Also impressed at how many people are online here at 1am on a Friday night

It's Saturday morning