Very intelligent 5 year old starting school and some concerns

Sam Kade

Tigger wrote: »

It's Saturday morning

Oh dear, no top marks for daddy then

_Kaiser_

Tigger wrote: »

It's Saturday morning

Sam Kade wrote: »

Oh dear, no top marks for daddy then

Tomayto, tomahto Besides, I freely admit he gets his brains from his mother!

languagenerd

NutmegGirl wrote: »

Don't know where you're based geographically OP but if you're in/close to Dublin have a look at CTYI based in DCU
Think there might be one based in UCC in Cork too. It's the Centre for Talented Youth Ireland, deals with academically gifted kids. My daughter did the summer courses which are for teenagers but I know she told me that they also have programmes for younger kids at weekends during the year and over the summer. I don't know what age they start at though.

It's 6 or 7. I was in them myself, started at 9 as my school had never heard of it til my mum broached the subject. They have entrance tests three times a year, but when I was in it (15 years ago now) your school had to put you forward for them.

Well worth looking into in a couple years - they were great for me.

freedominacup

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hey all,

So my 5 year old son is starting junior infants this September, but thinking about it tonight with his mother, we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him

Don't get me wrong, it's not that we thinks he's a Mensa genius, but when he was seen at age 3 by the public health nurse, she also commented on how advanced he was for age.

Since then:

- He can already count to 100 and beyond (the maths book, which he went through entirely tonight, he referred to as "easy-peasy")

- He can add, subtract, count backwards and is starting to work out simple multiplication. He also aware of the cost of things and can work things out like how much change he should get

- He has an excellent memory

- He's starting to ask how to spell things, reading along in books, and writing simple things like "hi" without prompting

- Comparing him to a friend's child who's 9 months younger shows a massive difference between them. Our little fella prefers to play with his older sister (10) and older kids in general

- He's interested in things like countries and where they are

- He has a very defined personality, sense of humor, confidence. Forever asks questions about everything

- Even in other things he seems ahead - his playschool report mentions how he has a very developed sense of fairness, humour and one-liners, witty, clever and caring

etc..

So the concern is that if the standard of Junior Infants is things like being able to count to 5 (from talking to the teacher) that he will very quickly become bored and frustrated, and given that the whole concept of things like having to sit down and pay attention in a classroom setting will be new to him as well, it's quite likely that this boredom and frustration will be misinterpreted by a busy teacher trying to keep 25 other kids in-line, and result in further problems as they go through the year.

So what do we do? Should we talk to the teacher in advance, maybe the principal, or should we be looking to get his intelligence assessed to try and work out how we and the school can best support him? I've had a look online but most of the sites are US/UK and there doesn't seem to be much for this in Ireland (a link I found to the Department site leads to a page that no longer exists)

Any advice, suggestions or experience would be much appreciated!

For starters he's far too old for junior infants at five in common with the vast majority of children in this country. Put him straight into senior infants where he should be. My daughter who turned 12 yesterday is starting first year at the end of the month. Her brother who was 14 on the 30th of June is starting third year at the same time. Their laggard brothers who were both born in December ended up being virtual geriatrics of 4yrs and 9mths starting primary school.

R.D. aka MR.D

My nephew is 4 going on 5 and will be 5 when he starts in September. He has done his free pre-school year and can do eveything your child can do. Many of the things you have mentioned, he was interested in/doing since 2 or so.

He learned loads of stuff in pre-school and regulary writes letters and wrote my husband a really cute one for his birthday a few months ago, without any adult help, prompting or otherwise.

No one in the family thinks he is a genius. All of his little pre-school friends can do the same. Most of them will be going into his baby infants class as well.

Did your child get his pre-school year? Maybe that is why you are so amazed, you don't realise that it's very different from when we were kids. They learn so much in that year.

It's great to encourage him but I wouldn't go projecting anything on to him that might down the line lead to disapointment when he isn't 'top of the class'.

I've taught little kids and you'd be surprised what many 3 year olds can do!

BrianBoru00

codrulz wrote: »

In my opinion, he doesn't sound much different to the vast majority of five year olds. The majority of children start junior infants at the age of four, as your child has had an extra year to develop, I would expect him to at the level you describe. I acknowledge the fact that you said you don't think he's a Mensa genius, as by your description of him, he really isn't. I would recommend that you just go ahead and allow him to start in junior infants but if you think this in impeding his growth or too easy for him after a few weeks, you can always skip the Junior infants and do extra tuition at home. Just my two cents!

This is not true. Please stop stating information as factual when it not as any primary teacher on here will confirm. The majority of children start primary school as five year olds. this makes them 13 when entering secondary school.

Gatling

I think you might be over thinking it ,most kids at 5 can easily count to 100 it's actually quite easy for them it's only counting to 10 just changing the words a bit ,
My two one is 8 and one is 5 now and they were both able to count to 100 in English and Irish and write their names ,
He might be mature for his age or learned to fit in with older kids alot of kids can do that too ,
Id be waiting for the first school reports and parent teacher meetings and see how he's progressing in a year or two before pushing him too much

eviltwin

My eldest was an above average child. It was never an issue in primary school but was an issue in secondary. She found school too easy and ended up doing additional subjects to challenge herself. We found there was a lot of encouragement and at times pressure, to get her to expand her learning as a child but tbh I wanted her to have her down time too so we didn't push her into anything. Anything additional she did as a teenager was her own choice. She also went to DCU, we didn't think it was worth the money.

Victor

Be careful not to push too hard - putting the child in a higher class could create its own difficulties socially.

pah wrote: »

Who told you junior infants was counting to 5?

Counting to 5 is the expected standard for children starting junior infants.

BrianBoru00

Victor wrote: »

Be careful not to push too hard - putting the child in a higher class could create its own difficulties socially.



Counting to 5 is the expected standard for children starting junior infants.

Again, NO ITS NOT. There is no expectation. As mentioned previously there is a big difference between counting to five and understanding what that means.
Counting to 100 is no different to reciting a nursery rhyme. its memory function.

Anne_cordelia

freedominacup wrote: »

For starters he's far too old for junior infants at five in common with the vast majority of children in this country. Put him straight into senior infants where he should be.

Not true. Most children are starting older and over 5. Things have moved on in the last seven years. There are now two free years of pre-school which has upped the starting age.

freedominacup

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

Not true. Most children are starting older and over 5. Things have moved on in the last seven years. There are now two free years of pre-school which has upped the starting age.

My youngest is 7. Things haven't changed that much. He went at 4 and 9 mths and is one of the oldest in his class.

bee06

freedominacup wrote: »

My youngest is 7. Things haven't changed that much. He went at 4 and 9 mths and is one of the oldest in his class.

My brother and sister were both 5 starting school and that was 20 years ago. My niece was also 5 when she started (and her father is a primary school teacher). It all depends on the month they were born more than their actual age.

Sleeper12

He's statically more likely to be autistic than genius. Regular school is the best place to start.

GalwayGrrrrrl

My lad was similar to yours age 5. We started him in school age 4 (June birthday) but that was before the two free preschool years.
He did the assessments for CTYI when he was 6 and attends their centre in Galway every Saturday. It's really helped him as he meets other kids like him and let's him learn things outside the school curriculum.
He has been disruptive in school at times due to boredom but his teachers give him extra work and let him bring his own books in. We keep him busy out of school with music classes, coder-dojo and sports.

Marz66

How is he socially at turn taking, playing games, eating his lunch, opening a banana etc?

Does his pre school teacher have any advice?

Now there is 2 years of preschool, primary teachers must be used to some kids knowing the stuff you mentioned. As someone else said, hopefully there will be even 1 or 2 other pupils to challenge him.

I would be worried about whether the teacher would bother too much with him or sit back and worry about the others. Not all teachers are good It would be worth talking to her I think.

Sounds like u have a lovely little boy - well done 😊

Tigger

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Tomayto, tomahto Besides, I freely admit he gets his brains from his mother!

I was only trying to lighten the mood
Too many people going on about social skill as if they are exclusive

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

freedominacup wrote: »

My youngest is 7. Things haven't changed that much. He went at 4 and 9 mths and is one of the oldest in his class.

Having several Primary School teachers in the immediate family, I'm assured the average age is 5. The age the teachers recommend is 5. Emotionally they are better at 5 too. 4 was the age when we had a three year infant programme . Pre school covers that hear now.

OP your child is good but by no means exceptional. Stop over thinking it and let him be for a year or two.

Cork Lass

I have 2 children now aged 22 and 17. When the 17 year old was 2 she used to go to bed with her sisters spelling book and Tables book and she actually taught herself to read well before starting school. She was and still is very bright and does well at school but so do lots of others. Sometimes we get blinded and think our kids are above average but who's to say what average really is. There are lots of bright kids out there but very few rocket scientists.

lawred2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hey all,

So my 5 year old son is starting junior infants this September, but thinking about it tonight with his mother, we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him

Don't get me wrong, it's not that we thinks he's a Mensa genius, but when he was seen at age 3 by the public health nurse, she also commented on how advanced he was for age.

Since then:

- He can already count to 100 and beyond (the maths book, which he went through entirely tonight, he referred to as "easy-peasy")

- He can add, subtract, count backwards and is starting to work out simple multiplication. He also aware of the cost of things and can work things out like how much change he should get

- He has an excellent memory

- He's starting to ask how to spell things, reading along in books, and writing simple things like "hi" without prompting

- Comparing him to a friend's child who's 9 months younger shows a massive difference between them. Our little fella prefers to play with his older sister (10) and older kids in general

- He's interested in things like countries and where they are

- He has a very defined personality, sense of humor, confidence. Forever asks questions about everything

- Even in other things he seems ahead - his playschool report mentions how he has a very developed sense of fairness, humour and one-liners, witty, clever and caring

etc..

So the concern is that if the standard of Junior Infants is things like being able to count to 5 (from talking to the teacher) that he will very quickly become bored and frustrated, and given that the whole concept of things like having to sit down and pay attention in a classroom setting will be new to him as well, it's quite likely that this boredom and frustration will be misinterpreted by a busy teacher trying to keep 25 other kids in-line, and result in further problems as they go through the year.

So what do we do? Should we talk to the teacher in advance, maybe the principal, or should we be looking to get his intelligence assessed to try and work out how we and the school can best support him? I've had a look online but most of the sites are US/UK and there doesn't seem to be much for this in Ireland (a link I found to the Department site leads to a page that no longer exists)

Any advice, suggestions or experience would be much appreciated!

Why are you making up stuff to worry about?

MelanieC

OP, I could've written your post word for word about my little boy! Also five and starting school in a few weeks,we are worried that he will be bored to tears learning ABC and counting to 5 as he has been reading,writing and doing sums for the last couple of years.

We are torn between encouraging his ability and trying to discourage it slightly so he doesn't know too much and end up frustrated or worse still,bullied. But he has his own mind and carries on regardless. He is constantly working on "projects" like writing his own stories (the spellings aren't always correct but he makes a fair attempt at them phonetically so you can understand them) and people are always fascinated when we are out and he reads full menus,advertisements etc no problem.

He watches Countdown every day and can easily make words out of the assembled letters and adds together all the math round numbers. Only the other day, he was working out if there's 60 seconds in a minute how many are there in 2 minutes etc......I stopped him when he got to 600 seconds in 10 minutes because I was getting genuinely worried and freaked out!

I know there's the social aspect to junior infants to think about too and that's important but people/posters tend to dismiss the problems overly bright kids may face whereas when its the opposite and kids need extra help or resources,concern and advice abounds. So I know exactly where you're coming from and your concerns are real,as are ours for our son. I'm just not sure there's all that much we can do at this juncture,as you said Ireland doesn't offer many resources for this. At least not until they're six or over anyway.

Any advice or recommendations you've found helpful I would also be interested in and keep us updated on how your little fella gets on once he starts.

CIARAN_BOYLE

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hey all,

So my 5 year old son is starting junior infants this September, but thinking about it tonight with his mother, we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him

Honestly he is 5 and you are concerned that school will be a little easy for him. Well you are probably right.

It's not that he is a genius it's that he is 5 and primary school is pitched at 4 year olds. Eventually it will even out. There's not a huge difference between an 18 year old and a 19 year old but there is between a 4 year old and a 5 year old.

The average age for starting school is 5 but the curriculum is pitched at a 4 year old.

Take advantage of the easy years and interest him in some sort of activity that he might like for the rest of his life.

Anne_cordelia

freedominacup wrote: »

My youngest is 7. Things haven't changed that much. He went at 4 and 9 mths and is one of the oldest in his class.

They actually have changed that much. Ask on any forum and more children are starting at 5 in the last year than 4 and ask any parents what they are planning for future years and most say 5+ particularly in urban areas. Rural may be more likely to send at 4 for numbers in schools.

meeeeh

My best friend was completely fluid at reading when we started school. He was always smart and above average in primary school but not exceptional. While he was the top of the class in first grade (I am not from Ireland) quite a few of us were probably preforming just as well or better by the end of primary school. Another school mate in primary school skipped 2nd year and started school a year earlier. He was 2 years younger than most of us when he joined in third class and I think that actually affected his progress. He was academically excellent but socially the age difference showed. I would be reluctant to push my child into a higher class. My partner is well in Mensa territory and yet he seriously underpreformed all through his education and he would probably benefit from a different approach. There is more than one way to deal with it.

I'd keep an eye but if child happy, well adjusted and progressing well then I'd leave it. Every child is different and you won't know until he starts the school. Because kids go to different high schools depending grades and academical ability where I come from we had quite a few very smart kids in my high school. (I wasn't one of them.) However we also had a few whose parents decided their kids are more capable than they were. They tended to have the hardest time. From my experience very few really smart kids were bullied, it was the ones that were trying too hard who had trouble fitting in.

Big Bag of Chips

Cork Lass wrote: »

Sometimes we get blinded and think our kids are above average but who's to say what average really is.

The standardised tests!

Scoring consistently 5-6 is average. Score above or below that and the child is above or below average.

Romantic Rose

I think a lot of parents think the sun shines out of their child's backsides. Blinded by love I suppose :P

Also, Junior Infants should be counting up to 10 but writing and combining number sets 0-5. You wouldn't believe the amount of children who still reverse write numbers 2 and 3 in particular, well up to 2nd class.

In all of my years of teaching, I can truly say I have come across one child who was an absolute all rounder. Popular, confident, sporty, cool, academically gifted, fantastic imagination etc etc.

Some children can be extremely academic but lack the social aspect of school. Some might be sporty but then struggle academically.

I would let your child start school and with teacher observation, I'm sure you will get feedback about where your child can be challenged and what areas your child needs to focus on. It's about the holistic development of your child.

Sometimes parents only focus on the academic side but forgot it's a small part of school and your child's development.

alroley

freedominacup wrote: »

For starters he's far too old for junior infants at five in common with the vast majority of children in this country. Put him straight into senior infants where he should be. My daughter who turned 12 yesterday is starting first year at the end of the month. Her brother who was 14 on the 30th of June is starting third year at the same time. Their laggard brothers who were both born in December ended up being virtual geriatrics of 4yrs and 9mths starting primary school.

That's really bad advice. I would say most children are 5/almost 5 when starting school now. My sister is a primary school teacher(teaching junior infants this year) and said that children that aren't five by the end of December should wait until the next year.

So many kids who start at barely 4 end up repeating junior infants.

Cork Lass

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

The standardised tests!

Scoring consistently 5-6 is average. Score above or below that and the child is above or below average.

But if a class is full of kids who score 8 or 9 then the average becomes 8.5. Like I said - who knows what average really is.

southstar

Just ask him

brillbelcli

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The teacher. If they can do that great she said, but they'll be learning that stuff through songs and such anyway. Similarly other things like learning the alphabet and associating letters with sound and thus other words etc.

Again I'm not saying he's a Mensa genius, just that in some respects, he seems noticeably further ahead.

With (all due) respect, I would be considering a different teacher / school.

On another note - many people have wild imaginations of how the childhood great geniuses or remarkable people play out. Believe me, its very different that what you describe.

With regards to your comment "we are a little concerned about whether it'll be too easy for him", what exactly do you believe would be too easy for him and who is measuring "it"?