What would you do?

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

It'll also make a big difference if you want a place in turn-key condition. People pay huge premiums for it.g If you're willing to do a bit DIY you can save a few quid, if lucky.

Yeah, I've no problem putting in a bit of work to it, I most likely wouldn't buy somewhere that needs a complete demolition / interior build though.

Plastering / painting flooring etc would be no problem. Be nice to be kept busy and feel like i do something productive

madethisup2017

messy tessy wrote: »

Just curious - have you considered making the move now down to your gf's place / land where you will see yourself living long term, rather than waiting 5 years? Ye have a sizeable deposit saved and even if your salary took a hit with the new jobs I imagine the banks would see you as strong candidates.

If it was me in your situation I'd probably get out of Dublin now.

You make a good point but I'm not ready to leave Dublin yet, I'm still involved with sports club up here and I like living here. I'm not ready for village life just yet, but it might be 3 years or it might be 5 or more. I just know I'm not ready to commit to that now.

Not necessarily the sensible answer but it's the only one I have

audi5

madethisup2017 wrote: »

when in doubt, go to the strangers on th internet for advice. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A LONG POST.

Currently my girlfriend and I are paying approx €19,000 a year in rent, we have been for a year or so and it looks like we will for at least another 5-6, though it could be more if the rental market gets worse.

We have about €70k in savings, no loans /credit cards / debts of any sort. We have a combined gross income of about €110k per year. We have no kids and they aren't in our plans...ever.

While we would both ideally love to live in Dublin for the rest of our lives, we can't see this happening due to the price of housing right now. The current plan is to buy / build down the country in about 5-6 years.

Should we stay in Dublin another 5 -6 years and continue paying the current rental price we will spend more than 100k in rent (net of our salary too).

I wouldn't mind looking into purchasing a property (apartment) for about €200k, this could most likely get us a 2 bed in the northside close enough to the dart (where we live). If we took out a 30 year mortgage for 130k we could be paying back less than €600 a month (using 3.3% interest rate from pepper money website). Which would be €7,200 per year, add in another €4,000 (estimate figure) for insurance, appliance breakdowns, service charges etc we would still be able to cut our costs by 8k a year. I would save the money we are not spending on rent and use this to overpay the mortgage after the fixed rate term is up.

We would also have the choice of renting a room to someone and getting up to 14k per year tax free. Even charging €500 per month would net us €6k per year to add to our savings.

We would obviously have the option of taking a 10-15 year term out but going 25-30 allows us to save and overpay when we can rather than still pay the large amount per month.

There is also the chance that the art,ent price will drop out of the sky in a number of years, but if it's in a decent area, close to commuting options, there's not much it could fall by, and I would also look at property registry over the last 10 years for the cost of houses / part,ends in the area.

So, strangers of boards.ie would you continue renting or would you purchase an apartment?

I am not going to comment on the areas you are considering, but given that you see yourself living in dublin for next 5-6 years, and by the sound of it at least one of you have a reasonably secure employment, here is what I would consider doing:

I would buy a 2-bed apartment for 250K, pay 50K deposit and get 80% LTV mortgage on it of 200K for possibly 5 years fixed. You will need another 5K for stamp duty, other fees etc so keep 15K as emergency cash.

Lets say house price and rents go no where in next 5 years i.e. stay static (conservative in my opinion and likely to go up but no one can forecast these things a year or two out).

Your net interest cost will be roughly 6K a year (taking into account all cash back etc on offer these days), and say another 4K for management fees, maintenance etc. Thats total cost of 10K in total. Then I would rent out second room and get say 500 per month tax free (using your number or say 400 if another recession hits, and there a job losses and rent drops), or 6K a year. This will bring your total cost to 4K a year. Note that I am not counting capital portion of your repayment as that is building equity in your apartment i.e. basically savings - you can pick your loan term based on your comfort levels.

You are paying 19K in rent, so you will end up saving 15K a year or 75K over 5 years.

You apartment price will have to drop 30% in 5 years (possible but unlikely) for you to lose out. BUT, you have to keep in mind that even with price drop, you next house will (hopefully) be at least 30% cheaper (rural prices should drop more than dublin if you look at last crash's history).

So just looking at raw numbers it should be an easy decision. But if both of you work in an area where you could both lose jobs then its not an easy decision and I would worry about price dropping only if you plan to sell and leave Ireland. So main thing for you is to pick a good area where you see yourself living happily for next 5 years and able to find tenants for second room.

ps. if you can get additional 12.5K from the government (HTB) while doing it then its icing on the cake

madethisup2017

audi5 wrote: »

I am not going to comment on the areas you are considering, but given that you see yourself living in dublin for next 5-6 years, and by the sound of it at least one of you have a reasonably secure employment, here is what I would consider doing:

I would buy a 2-bed apartment for 250K, pay 50K deposit and get 80% LTV mortgage on it of 200K for possibly 5 years fixed. You will need another 5K for stamp duty, other fees etc so keep 15K as emergency cash.

Lets say house price and rents go no where in next 5 years i.e. stay static (conservative in my opinion and likely to go up but no one can forecast these things a year or two out).

Your net interest cost will be roughly 6K a year (taking into account all cash back etc on offer these days), and say another 4K for management fees, maintenance etc. Thats total cost of 10K in total. Then I would rent out second room and get say 500 per month tax free (using your number or say 400 if another recession hits, and there a job losses and rent drops), or 6K a year. This will bring your total cost to 4K a year. Note that I am not counting capital portion of your repayment as that is building equity in your apartment i.e. basically savings - you can pick your loan term based on your comfort levels.

You are paying 19K in rent, so you will end up saving 15K a year or 75K over 5 years.

You apartment price will have to drop 30% in 5 years (possible but unlikely) for you to lose out. BUT, you have to keep in mind that even with price drop, you next house will (hopefully) be at least 30% cheaper (rural prices should drop more than dublin if you look at last crash's history).

So just looking at raw numbers it should be an easy decision. But if both of you work in an area where you could both lose jobs then its not an easy decision and I would worry about price dropping only if you plan to sell and leave Ireland. So main thing for you is to pick a good area where you see yourself living happily for next 5 years and able to find tenants for second room.

ps. if you can get additional 12.5K from the government (HTB) while doing it then its icing on the cake

Some very good points which is why I started this thread. Both of us are in secure employment, I hope, I just think negatively for a worst case scenario.

The way I look at it is if one of us loses our job while paying the rent we are currently paying, we will be in a much worse position than we would be if we were paying much less for a mortgage. I know in a rental we'd always have the opportunity to leave the apartment and lose only the deposit, but taking out a longer term mortgage gives us flexibility to pay less per month should anything happen (while also allowing us to overpay and cut the interest and loan amount every few years).

If we were to purchase somewhere in 9-12 months using 65-70k as a deposit I think we would still have around 15-20k or so in an emergency fund. This could then be bulked up at a rate of about 3k per month with the savings on rent and what we currently set aside (more should we rent out the spare room)

Cyrus

Ok i have a lot of questions, feel free to ignore some or all but they may be food for thought.

The first thing that strikes me is that ideally you want to stay in Dublin. As a young couple not looking to start a family i can see why. So the plan is to move down the country near your girlfriends family (does she have a big family, are they very close?).

Im assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that neither of you have a tonne of friends down there? (going by own experience of going away to college and then settling in Dublin, most people are either somewhere else or in Dublin, very few left at home). So what makes it so desirable a move economic factors aside? If you are taking about a 30-45 minute commute i presume thats a 30-40 mile drive rather than a dublin 30-45 minute commute, they aren't the same thing.

I see that you want to be mortgage free and thats great, but what kind of life are you contemplating down where you plan on moving? being mortgage free with not much to do with a 30 mile drive to work every day isnt an ideal scenario either.

You both seem to be doing ok, you say she has a qualification that will get her a job anywhere. i am going to guess its something like an accountant or solicitor. on that basis, there is a real possibility that her earnings (and yours) will increase materially over the next 5 years. Will you be prepared to give that up?

Given that you dont want to have kids (are you 100% on this, is your girlfriend younger or older than you? if younger there is always the change that her thinking may change..) there should be properties of interest to you that people with families in mind wont want , duplexes, houses with steep gardens etc. you should use that to your advantage.

anyway for what its worth, if i was you i would spend what you can comfortably afford to live in a place you like in a location you like NOW. 5-6 years is a long time, you are both young, doing well etc etc. You can reassess in 5 years where you are, what you want to do. Barring a disaster an apartment in a decent part of time wont have devalued in 5 years one way or the other (although i would look at other property types also). If you work everything around this move down the country (which would need to have more going for it than just economics) you risk putting your life on hold for the next 5-10 years. You are young and have no kids, get out there and enjoy it :P

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Im assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that neither of you have a tonne of friends down there? (going by own experience of going away to college and then settling in Dublin, most people are either somewhere else or in Dublin, very few left at home). So what makes it so desirable a move economic factors aside? If you are taking about a 30-45 minute commute i presume thats a 30-40 mile drive rather than a dublin 30-45 minute commute, they aren't the same thing.

The 30-40 miles drive is a far far nicer commute than the 45 mins of soul destroying traffic in Dublin covering only a few miles. Chances are it's also a guarenteed commute time every morning to about +/- 5 mins as no traffic issues. Hop in the car, radio on an drive away to work with no stop/start etc. Probably the ideal work commute.

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

Ok i have a lot of questions, feel free to ignore some or all but they may be food for thought.

The first thing that strikes me is that ideally you want to stay in Dublin. As a young couple not looking to start a family i can see why. So the plan is to move down the country near your girlfriends family (does she have a big family, are they very close?).

We both have very small families. I don't want to live where I'm from and we both like where she is from. It's a nice area, close enough to some large towns and cities too.

Yes, in an ideal world we would love to live in a nice suburban area in Dublin, pay back a small mortgage every month and have little to no debt in our mid fifties but that's not feasible wth the price of housing in Dublin and I'm not prepared to buy a house I don't like, in an area I don't like, for twice the amount I would have to pay for a home I would enjoy living in down where she is from.

Im assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that neither of you have a tonne of friends down there? (going by own experience of going away to college and then settling in Dublin, most people are either somewhere else or in Dublin, very few left at home). So what makes it so desirable a move economic factors aside? If you are taking about a 30-45 minute commute i presume thats a 30-40 mile drive rather than a dublin 30-45 minute commute, they aren't the same thing.

My girlfriend would have a good few friends still around, with more moving back of late as they start to settle down. I like the idea of a peaceful life, not having loads of people around me, being able to chill out, garden, travel at weekends etc. I'd get this down there. I'm not big into arranging meet ups with people every weekend, I have a good few friends that I made in Dublin but I generally socialise with them at matches and training, I don't make plans to spend nights out with them during the off season.....yeah, I'm not a people person.

I see that you want to be mortgage free and thats great, but what kind of life are you contemplating down where you plan on moving? being mortgage free with not much to do with a 30 mile drive to work every day isnt an ideal scenario either.

You both seem to be doing ok, you say she has a qualification that will get her a job anywhere. i am going to guess its something like an accountant or solicitor. on that basis, there is a real possibility that her earnings (and yours) will increase materially over the next 5 years. Will you be prepared to give that up?

There's a good amount of things we could do, I like running which will be fine to do there. We can also help out with the family business at weekends if they need any assistance, it would be good to give her family a break every now and then.

Our earnings should continue to increase in Dublin, but factoring in the cost of living up here against that I don't think we'd lose much on relocating. I'd also gladly drive 30-45 mins on open road everyday than have my 20 minute commute on the m50 take me an hour and a half to two hours. The certainty of knowing your commute makes life easier.

Given that you dont want to have kids (are you 100% on this, is your girlfriend younger or older than you? if younger there is always the change that her thinking may change..) there should be properties of interest to you that people with families in mind wont want , duplexes, houses with steep gardens etc. you should use that to your advantage.

We are both certain on the kids issue, I don't want them and she doesn't want them, we have been in agreement on that for years. Seeing our own nephews and nieces and our friends have kids etc hasn't changed our minds, it's only reaffirmed them......we love mid day naps and doing whatever we want, you can't have that selfish lifestyle with kids involved.

She is younger than me so obviously that may change with her but we are planning our life for not having them.

anyway for what its worth, if i was you i would spend what you can comfortably afford to live in a place you like in a location you like NOW. 5-6 years is a long time, you are both young, doing well etc etc. You can reassess in 5 years where you are, what you want to do. Barring a disaster an apartment in a decent part of time wont have devalued in 5 years one way or the other (although i would look at other property types also). If you work everything around this move down the country (which would need to have more going for it than just economics) you risk putting your life on hold for the next 5-10 years. You are young and have no kids, get out there and enjoy it :P

We know we could afford a mortgage if 200k -250k at the minute which would get us a house / apartment worth that plus 70-80k in savings, however we don't want to spend more than 200-225k, on the property (mortgage of 130-150k).

We would like to get somewhere in the northside because we both love living here, you get more for your money, there's really nice areas, lovely parks, a good bus / dart system and we also have the clubs we are involved with.

I could easily see myself living in an apartment or house here for another 10 years if I needed to, I just don't want that to be a house or apartment I'm paying 18-20k a year to rent, which is a hell of a lot of money I could have put into my own property as a savings alternative.

madethisup2017

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

The 30-40 miles drive is a far far nicer commute than the 45 mins of soul destroying traffic in Dublin covering only a few miles. Chances are it's also a guarenteed commute time every morning to about +/- 5 mins as no traffic issues. Hop in the car, radio on an drive away to work with no stop/start etc. Probably the ideal work commute.

Exactly, to not have to worry about crashes on the m50, darts not running on time, dealing with sitting next to some guy who doesn't feel the need to shower in the morning etc is a heavenly thought.

Cyrus

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

The 30-40 miles drive is a far far nicer commute than the 45 mins of soul destroying traffic in Dublin covering only a few miles. Chances are it's also a guarenteed commute time every morning to about +/- 5 mins as no traffic issues. Hop in the car, radio on an drive away to work with no stop/start etc. Probably the ideal work commute.

Respectfully disagree I'd much rather a trip on the dart than a 30 mile drive both ways

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

We both have very small families. I don't want to live where I'm from and we both like where she is from. It's a nice area, close enough to some large towns and cities too.

Yes, in an ideal world we would love to live in a nice suburban area in Dublin, pay back a small mortgage every month and have little to no debt in our mid fifties but that's not feasible wth the price of housing in Dublin and I'm not prepared to buy a house I don't like, in an area I don't like, for twice the amount I would have to pay for a home I would enjoy living in down where she is from.





My girlfriend would have a good few friends still around, with more moving back of late as they start to settle down. I like the idea of a peaceful life, not having loads of people around me, being able to chill out, garden, travel at weekends etc. I'd get this down there. I'm not big into arranging meet ups with people every weekend, I have a good few friends that I made in Dublin but I generally socialise with them at matches and training, I don't make plans to spend nights out with them during the off season.....yeah, I'm not a people person.



There's a good amount of things we could do, I like running which will be fine to do there. We can also help out with the family business at weekends if they need any assistance, it would be good to give her family a break every now and then.

Our earnings should continue to increase in Dublin, but factoring in the cost of living up here against that I don't think we'd lose much on relocating. I'd also gladly drive 30-45 mins on open road everyday than have my 20 minute commute on the m50 take me an hour and a half to two hours. The certainty of knowing your commute makes life easier.



We are both certain on the kids issue, I don't want them and she doesn't want them, we have been in agreement on that for years. Seeing our own nephews and nieces and our friends have kids etc hasn't changed our minds, it's only reaffirmed them......we love mid day naps and doing whatever we want, you can't have that selfish lifestyle with kids involved.

She is younger than me so obviously that may change with her but we are planning our life for not having them.



We know we could afford a mortgage if 200k -250k at the minute which would get us a house / apartment worth that plus 70-80k in savings, however we don't want to spend more than 200-225k, on the property (mortgage of 130-150k).

We would like to get somewhere in the northside because we both love living here, you get more for your money, there's really nice areas, lovely parks, a good bus / dart system and we also have the clubs we are involved with.

I could easily see myself living in an apartment or house here for another 10 years if I needed to, I just don't want that to be a house or apartment I'm paying 18-20k a year to rent, which is a hell of a lot of money I could have put into my own property as a savings alternative.

Fair enough

Why are you limiting yourself to 250k are you really going to get something in an area you want for that ?

Also are you really going to rent a room to a stranger ? Assume ye are living just the two of you at the moment

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

Fair enough

Why are you limiting yourself to 250k are you really going to get something in an area you want for that ?

Also are you really going to rent a room to a stranger ? Assume ye are living just the two of you at the moment

we don't need a huge apartment/ house it doesn't need to be a 2 minute walk to the dart, it doesn't need sea views etc. We think we can get something that would be suitable that we could happily live in for 5-10 years within that price range that, heopefully, wouldn't lose loads of value in the time we have it.

Renting a room is not a guarantee, it might be something we do for a year leading up to an overpayment to give an extra lump of cash but honestly I'd be budgeting that we live there on our own with now income from a tenant.

John_Rambo

I'd go full on. Buy where you like and get a large mortgage in a good area that you like close to the DART line to alleviate the commute.

I know you don't want to, but we're not in the same situation as we were during the tiger. And that tiger hangover has a lot of people threading carefully.

- We don't have hysterical, grabby situation with people on regular wages buying second, third and fourth properties.

- There is a shortage of housing in Dublin that's not going to be sorted any time soon.

- You're in a fantastic, enviable financial position. You're both obviously rock steady with no debts or loans.

- There's a huge chance you're familial plans will change. (realistically)

- You're not party animals and don't seem to spend on booze and social frivolities, betting, gambling or bling ego spends.

- You seem to be involved locally in community sports.

I'm speaking from experience. Three times I was told I was nuts/overstretching myself to buy where I wanted to live. Three times it worked out very well. The people that told me I was nuts were reluctant to stretch and are stuck in limbo in places they don't really want to live.

Best of luck with your decision.

Cyrus

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd go full on. Buy where you like and get a large mortgage in a good area that you like close to the DART line to alleviate the commute.

I know you don't want to, but we're not in the same situation as we were during the tiger. And that tiger hangover has a lot of people threading carefully.

- We don't have hysterical, grabby situation with people on regular wages buying second, third and fourth properties.

- There is a shortage of housing in Dublin that's not going to be sorted any time soon.

- You're in a fantastic, enviable financial position. You're both obviously rock steady with no debts or loans.

- There's a huge chance you're familial plans will change. (realistically)

- You're not party animals and don't seem to spend on booze and social frivolities, betting, gambling or bling ego spends.

- You seem to be involved locally in community sports.

I'm speaking from experience. Three times I was told I was nuts/overstretching myself to buy where I wanted to live. Three times it worked out very well. The people that told me I was nuts were reluctant to stretch and are stuck in limbo in places they don't really want to live.

Best of luck with your decision.

I'd agree with this

madethisup2017

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd go full on. Buy where you like and get a large mortgage in a good area that you like close to the DART line to alleviate the commute.

I know you don't want to, but we're not in the same situation as we were during the tiger. And that tiger hangover has a lot of people threading carefully.

- We don't have hysterical, grabby situation with people on regular wages buying second, third and fourth properties.

- There is a shortage of housing in Dublin that's not going to be sorted any time soon.

- You're in a fantastic, enviable financial position. You're both obviously rock steady with no debts or loans.

- There's a huge chance you're familial plans will change. (realistically)

- You're not party animals and don't seem to spend on booze and social frivolities, betting, gambling or bling ego spends.

- You seem to be involved locally in community sports.

I'm speaking from experience. Three times I was told I was nuts/overstretching myself to buy where I wanted to live. Three times it worked out very well. The people that told me I was nuts were reluctant to stretch and are stuck in limbo in places they don't really want to live.

Best of luck with your decision.

You make some good points and pretty much everything about us that you mentioned is correct, with the exception of our family situation, I can't stress how much I don't want kids of my own.

With our budget we couldn't get a home we would want in an area we'd like to spend the rest of our lives in here in Dublin (if we wanted to spend the rest of our lives here) so we would have to make a sacrifice and it would most likely have to be location.with our current salaries we could get a mortgage of about 350-380k so would have about 450-470k to spend on a house...all in, before you look at trying to improve it.

For the areas we would like to live in here in Dublin that doesn't get us anything close, that's why I'm looking to spend half that, be in an area close to where we like, be in much less debt, have more disposable income to splurge on extravagances like Avonmore low fat super milk instead of Tesco low fat milk. Then when we are ready we can build a house we both are happy to spend the rest of our lives in, close by her family and friends, with a nice community and some great tourism attractions and all sorts of activities right on our doorstep.

John_Rambo

Ok, fair enough, sorry for second guessing your family planning but happy accidents happen and it's very very common for people to change their minds!! I only know one couple of many that said they'd never have kids that didn't have kids, so It's fair to put it out there.

I had to do some creative accounting to live where I wanted to live. It's risky, but it was worth it for me. Three times and I'd do it again. It's harder to do that now with all the checks and testing now. It's still doable.

Your mortgage supplier may change their minds if you tell them where you're buying.

Have you both approached your employers? If you're looking to buy, pay rises, temporary or permanent can make a big difference and they might be willing to pay you more to keep you or your partner working in your present jobs.

LirW

Have you actually already a figure in mind of how much your own house that you're planning to build is going to cost you? How big do you want it and have you figured in all the costs that come with it like connection to water etc?
How likely is it that this isn't going to leave you in a huge mortgage? Sorry, don't wanna sound challenging, genuinely interested.

EDIT: Just did a bit of research and realized the sqm price you currently pay for new builds. You mentioned that you want to build on your GFs familiy land? Will there be a site gifted? In this case, and solely in this case your plan can actually really pay off.
If you have a good relationship to the family then I see no problem with it. Can you imagine living very close to your in-laws for the rest of your life? Please do consider this carefully because for many families your plan turned out to be a real mess because suddenly boundaries disappeared. For some people there is definitely a "living too close" to family and I think it's important to keep this in mind.

the_syco

madethisup2017 wrote: »

Ideally we would want to build there and it would be on my girlfriends land

Unless you plan to be married, get things in writing.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'd go full on. Buy where you like and get a large mortgage in a good area that you like close to the DART line to alleviate the commute.

I know you don't want to, but we're not in the same situation as we were during the tiger. And that tiger hangover has a lot of people threading carefully.

- We don't have hysterical, grabby situation with people on regular wages buying second, third and fourth properties.

- There is a shortage of housing in Dublin that's not going to be sorted any time soon.

- You're in a fantastic, enviable financial position. You're both obviously rock steady with no debts or loans.

- There's a huge chance you're familial plans will change. (realistically)

- You're not party animals and don't seem to spend on booze and social frivolities, betting, gambling or bling ego spends.

- You seem to be involved locally in community sports.

I'm speaking from experience. Three times I was told I was nuts/overstretching myself to buy where I wanted to live. Three times it worked out very well. The people that told me I was nuts were reluctant to stretch and are stuck in limbo in places they don't really want to live.

Best of luck with your decision.

I disagree, I'd advise anyone to get away from Dublin and build themselves a proper house near family with space, no strange neighbours, no traffic or noise and just a much more comfortable and relaxed life. A nice relaxing traffic free commute to work is another bonus.

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

You make some good points and pretty much everything about us that you mentioned is correct, with the exception of our family situation, I can't stress how much I don't want kids of my own.

With our budget we couldn't get a home we would want in an area we'd like to spend the rest of our lives in here in Dublin (if we wanted to spend the rest of our lives here) so we would have to make a sacrifice and it would most likely have to be location.with our current salaries we could get a mortgage of about 350-380k so would have about 450-470k to spend on a house...all in, before you look at trying to improve it.

For the areas we would like to live in here in Dublin that doesn't get us anything close, that's why I'm looking to spend half that, be in an area close to where we like, be in much less debt, have more disposable income to splurge on extravagances like Avonmore low fat super milk instead of Tesco low fat milk. Then when we are ready we can build a house we both are happy to spend the rest of our lives in, close by her family and friends, with a nice community and some great tourism attractions and all sorts of activities right on our doorstep.

If you definitely want to live down the country that's cool but in fairness very very few people can expect to buy a house they would want to stay in forever in a desirable part of Dublin at 33, it's something you will have to work up to. Another option is to buy a place that needs plenty of work and do it over the next 10 years and have your forever home by the time you are done.

PhoenixParker

I'd agree with John rambo and Cyrus.
You're being pennywise and pound foolish with the property you're thinking of buying.

You're well capable of getting something you'd genuinely like to live in long term in Dublin including not commuting the M50 and finishing your mortgage in your mid fifties while living a comfortable life.

Between the transactional costs and the decorating costs of buying a 5 year property you'll be wasting a lot of money to end up in your second choice location.

John_Rambo

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

I disagree, I'd advise anyone to get away from Dublin

The OP specifically says a few times that they want to live in Dublin. They live there already.

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

build themselves a proper house near family with space, no strange neighbours, no traffic or noise and just a much more comfortable and relaxed life. A nice relaxing traffic free commute to work is another bonus.

Houses are “proper” in Dublin, there’s plenty of space, the neighbours aren’t “strange” they’re neighbours. They’re very quiet areas, in fact where the OP is looking at has three designated quiet areas with excellent public transport. All this leads to a very comfortable and relaxed life with close by amenities.

I did say I was posting from experience buying in Dublin. Respectfully, although you give the impression that you have, I suspect you have no experience in buying property anywhere.

madethisup2017

Probably best to try and answer these all in one post.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ok, fair enough, sorry for second guessing your family planning but happy accidents happen and it's very very common for people to change their minds!! I only know one couple of many that said they'd never have kids that didn't have kids, so It's fair to put it out there.

Have you both approached your employers? If you're looking to buy, pay rises, temporary or permanent can make a big difference and they might be willing to pay you more to keep you or your partner working in your present jobs.

everyone speaks to us about wanting kids in the future, believe me, at 33 my mind is firmly made up. Yes, accidents do happen but we aren't going to plan for that, much like we aren't planning for one of us getting knocked down, which is probably more likely.....I'm sure she'd run me over if she got pregnant so we might get a 2 for 1 on that.

We haven't approached our employers, my girlfriend and I are of the believe that you receive promotions and salary increases based on your work ethic rather than outside factors such as lifestyle choices.

LirW wrote: »

Have you actually already a figure in mind of how much your own house that you're planning to build is going to cost you? How big do you want it and have you figured in all the costs that come with it like connection to water etc?
How likely is it that this isn't going to leave you in a huge mortgage? Sorry, don't wanna sound challenging, genuinely interested.

EDIT: Just did a bit of research and realized the sqm price you currently pay for new builds. You mentioned that you want to build on your GFs familiy land? Will there be a site gifted? In this case, and solely in this case your plan can actually really pay off.
If you have a good relationship to the family then I see no problem with it. Can you imagine living very close to your in-laws for the rest of your life? Please do consider this carefully because for many families your plan turned out to be a real mess because suddenly boundaries disappeared. For some people there is definitely a "living too close" to family and I think it's important to keep this in mind.

Yes, we have a figure and size in mind. We've used costs for builds made by our family members in the last year or two as a bar and added a % on to that for the inevitable increases. As we will be spending most of our time in that house we will design is / spec it out to make us happy to be there all the time.

The site is free, it has been set aside for my gf. We actually could choose a number of them. With regards to living close to family members, I'm not worried about it at all. Her own siblings live beside the home house and I don't think I her parents have been up to them more than two or three times in the last few years, they are very accommodating and respectful to the point that would have to drag them up and write them a letter stating that you don't mind them calling in.

the_syco wrote: »

Unless you plan to be married, get things in writing.

While this does seem like a negative approach, anything being built / financed will be in writing to protect both of us, not just one of us.

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

I disagree, I'd advise anyone to get away from Dublin and build themselves a proper house near family with space, no strange neighbours, no traffic or noise and just a much more comfortable and relaxed life. A nice relaxing traffic free commute to work is another bonus.

The idea of living down in the country is something I am looking forward to. I grew up in a small town and while I didn't appreciate it much at the time, looking back at the amount of freedom I had to walk through fields, go to lakes, fish, go exploring forests etc was unbelievable. Don't think I'm not going to do that as a 40 year old in a new environment.

Cyrus wrote: »

If you definitely want to live down the country that's cool but in fairness very very few people can expect to buy a house they would want to stay in forever in a desirable part of Dublin at 33, it's something you will have to work up to. Another option is to buy a place that needs plenty of work and do it over the next 10 years and have your forever home by the time you are done.

Yeah, I also can't afford my forever home down in the country now either (well, technically I could but not alongside paying rent in Dublin which I need to do to afford it). While I might be able to afford a 600-700k home in Dublin in 5 years it's not something I want.

I see no fun in life constantly having to pay back large amounts of money to live somewhere that won't make me any happier than living in the country. I've never been someone who has taken out large loans, or loans of any kind really for that matter. My credit card bills get paid in full every month to avoid internet charges, my bank account doesn't have any fees, I order spending money on travelling, eating out, relaxing, running gear I don't need, generally enjoying life with my girlfriend, not on sustaining a house that I don't need in an area of Dublin that, while I like it, I have no attachment to it.

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'd agree with John rambo and Cyrus.
You're being pennywise and pound foolish with the property you're thinking of buying.

You're well capable of getting something you'd genuinely like to live in long term in Dublin including not commuting the M50 and finishing your mortgage in your mid fifties while living a comfortable life.

Between the transactional costs and the decorating costs of buying a 5 year property you'll be wasting a lot of money to end up in your second choice location.

I may keep the apartment for more than 5 years and if I do it becomes more cost efficient. I honestly, as said above, do not want to pay 400k, let alone 600k for any house....anywhere.

Now, if I won the lotto that would change but I don't even play it so that's not going to happen.

John_Rambo wrote: »

The OP specifically says a few times that they want to live in Dublin. They live there already.



Houses are “proper” in Dublin, there’s plenty of space, the neighbours aren’t “strange” they’re neighbours. They’re very quiet areas, in fact where the OP is looking at has three designated quiet areas with excellent public transport. All this leads to a very comfortable and relaxed life with close by amenities.

I did say I was posting from experience buying in Dublin. Respectfully, although you give the impression that you have, I suspect you have no experience in buying property anywhere.

I think there are some lovely houses in Dublin, and if I could buy one of them for 250-300k then I would. But to be honest I would probably only keep it for 10 years and then build down at my girlfriends anyway.

The thought of not worrying about a mortgage, how much of a % my next salary increase is going to be, who my neighbours are etc is something I'm really looking forward to.

I've never been someone who has felt the need to keep up with the neighbours on what they are doing. If my rent was only €1,100 a month I wouldn't even bother considering a purchase, this purchase is only to keep me from throwing away €18-20k a year in rent. I reckon it could save me a minimum of 50k over the next 5 years, even if I took a hit of 10% of the purchase price. That's 50k that I can use to decrease the mortgage I need to build a home I want.



I understand to a lot of people that it seems like I am not being wise, because who the hell wants to actually live in a 2 bedroom apartment when they could buy a 3-4 bedroom house? I get that logic, but when you don't want to live in a 3-4 bedroom house in Dublin for the rest of your life anyway, and have been more than happy in a 2 bed apartment for the last 8 years then it's a logical decision for me to spend much less money, keep my same standard of housing, have more disposable income should I need it, and also save money for a home I do want to live in when I get that little bit older.

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

I've never been someone who has felt the need to keep up with the neighbours on what they are doing. If my rent was only €1,100 a month I wouldn't even bother considering a purchase, this purchase is only to keep me from throwing away €18-20k a year in rent. I reckon it could save me a minimum of 50k over the next 5 years, even if I took a hit of 10% of the purchase price. That's 50k that I can use to decrease the mortgage I need to build a home I want.



I understand to a lot of people that it seems like I am not being wise, because who the hell wants to actually live in a 2 bedroom apartment when they could buy a 3-4 bedroom house? I get that logic, but when you don't want to live in a 3-4 bedroom house in Dublin for the rest of your life anyway, and have been more than happy in a 2 bed apartment for the last 8 years then it's a logical decision for me to spend much less money, keep my same standard of housing, have more disposable income should I need it, and also save money for a home I do want to live in when I get that little bit older.

the bit i am struggling with a little is why do you not want a 3-4 bedroom house in Dublin but you do want one (and im sure a much larger one in the country) ?

You dont need a big house, but id suggest as a young couple who dont want to have kids amenities are far more important.

Also, it seems the plan is to try be mortgage free down the country? is that right? or have a small mortgage?

Because unless i am mistaken building say a 2000 sq foot house on a greenfield site with an architect / project manager and fitting it out to a nice standard wont leave much from 400k imo

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Because unless i am mistaken building say a 2000 sq foot house on a greenfield site with an architect / project manager and fitting it out to a nice standard wont leave much from 400k imo

I know people who have built over 3000sq ft for not much more than half that. Direct labour, self project managed is the way to go. The op's gf's family are from the area and will no doubt know block layers, plumbers, carpenters etc who can all be contracted individually often for "cash" prices.

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

the bit i am struggling with a little is why do you not want a 3-4 bedroom house in Dublin but you do want one (and im sure a much larger one in the country) ?

You dont need a big house, but id suggest as a young couple who dont want to have kids amenities are far more important.

Also, it seems the plan is to try be mortgage free down the country? is that right? or have a small mortgage?

Because unless i am mistaken building say a 2000 sq foot house on a greenfield site with an architect / project manager and fitting it out to a nice standard wont leave much from 400k imo

We don't want a larger than 3-4 bed house down the country.

I don't want a 3-4 bed house in Dublin because it's cost prohibitive to live somewhere I would like to spend the next 30 years if I was to live in Dublin. Neither of us are from Dublin so we don't really have an attachment to it. We both just came here to work, my girlfriend pretty much after college and me a bit later than that because of working abroad / travelling etc.

A 3-4 bed house costing 400k in Dublin would be a semi detached, in an area we don't want to live and wouldn't be laid out as we would like.

We could build a house on the site for less than 300k, budgeting at 250k knowing that we would most likely go over, (we won't have dermot bannon to pick our windows so hopefully we'll not go much over the 250k) but even at 300k we would have the house we wanted, in an area we like, with neighbours we know, and have a nice garden with family close by. We would be getting the site for free and having water, sewage, electricity set up won't be an issue due to the location of houses either side of the site.

madethisup2017

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

I know people who have built over 3000sq ft for not much more than half that. Direct labour, self project managed is the way to go. The op's gf's family are from the area and will no doubt know block layers, plumbers, carpenters etc who can all be contracted individually often for "cash" prices.

I can say that my brother has recently built a 4 bed house, to a builders finish (kitchen, windows, plastered etc) for £115k, it's 5 mins over the border hence the sterling price.

His house has two reception rooms and a 'sun room' which is ironic, because Ireland. Now fiitting it out with furniture, decorating it etc would probably be about another 20k but all in you are looking at €150k or so.

I'm budgeting more than 100k more than that so I'd like to think we can get it done within budget.

As you said, there are still lads back home who build a house from start to finish and manage the project for you who are more than happy to do it for a rate reasonable to them and to us.

We would both also know carpenters / plasterers/ electricians / builders etc who could do the work for us but I'm not inclined to pay under the going rate to get a friend to do the work, if I want someone to do it I will pay them their going rate and feel happy in the knowledge that if it's not up to standard or they are taking too long I can tell them I'm not happy as I won't feel like they are doing me a favour.

Cyrus

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

I know people who have built over 3000sq ft for not much more than half that. Direct labour, self project managed is the way to go. The op's gf's family are from the area and will no doubt know block layers, plumbers, carpenters etc who can all be contracted individually often for "cash" prices.

Maybe built, they couldn't have floored and furnished it for that, if you want to do that properly , decent kitchen etc it'll add up

Although you can do all that cheap and have a cheap for out same way you can self manage and pay local lads cash if you are they way inclined

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

I can say that my brother has recently built a 4 bed house, to a builders finish (kitchen, windows, plastered etc) for £115k, it's 5 mins over the border hence the sterling price.

His house has two reception rooms and a 'sun room' which is ironic, because Ireland. Now fiitting it out with furniture, decorating it etc would probably be about another 20k but all in you are looking at €150k or so.

I'm budgeting more than 100k more than that so I'd like to think we can get it done within budget.

As you said, there are still lads back home who build a house from start to finish and manage the project for you who are more than happy to do it for a rate reasonable to them and to us.

We would both also know carpenters / plasterers/ electricians / builders etc who could do the work for us but I'm not inclined to pay under the going rate to get a friend to do the work, if I want someone to do it I will pay them their going rate and feel happy in the knowledge that if it's not up to standard or they are taking too long I can tell them I'm not happy as I won't feel like they are doing me a favour.

I think you are under estimating the cost of furnishing etc, obviously depends on what you are into but 20k would hardly touch the sides.

You could spend that on a dining table and chairs and couches

Decent carpets and wooden floors are expensive , curtains are expensive , beds mattresses are expensive

Decent paint and decent painters are expensive

You can do all that cheap, get laminate floors etc etc but I personally don't see the point.

Anyway I think you have your mind made up so I won't try convince you otherwise any more

We went through the same thing, and nearly moved back home bit ulitmately for career opportunities and quality of life we decided against it

madethisup2017

I should probably also point out that while it might seem I am being dismissive of some of the points being made, I do understand where you are all coming from in this.

My replies are based only on my own situation and it's great to see the thinking from other people, even if we have competition different views. John_rambo and Cyrus have made some great points which, if someone is reading this and wants to live in Dublin and aren't as conservative with their outlay as I am, would definitely benefit from.

I also like that this thread hasn't turned into an argument between two people, it's just some good back and forth conversation from people with experience of this in the past and people like me, with none whatsoever,

LirW

I think the reason why people are not really getting the point of your idea is that 200-220k is only going to buy you some mediocre apartment in the locations you like, this is why I said go and view everything you can because it's a good reality check. Buying something is a big commitment and will be differently approached than renting a place.
Also there is a number of posters here that did buy during the boom planning to do what you're doing and they burned themselves and are now stuck with properties that are more of a burden than anything else. Which is a fair point because if for some reason the market will go to sh1te in the next 5 years, you're stuck in a starter home and won't be able for a long time to move on. That's why people recommend to spend more on something that you actually like.

Honestly OP, I'd probably look into building sooner rather than later. The process itself will take a while and you're about to commit financially to a mortgage after all. If anything goes wrong you're fkd. You know what you want, you seem smart enough for that but you're not done in Dublin yet. I think compromises need to be made there and honestly a mortgage that somewhat ties you to Dublin is the worst one. You want to be mortgage-free ASAP, then don't go for a compromise like this but look into what you really want. You don't want to commit to country life yet, and you don't want to commit to a huge mortgage but are willing to commit to a property that can be a possible predicament for you? This is the point that doesn't make any sense to a lot of posters here.
Also for a larger mortgage you'll need a larger deposit which is 20% from then on. Can you save that much over the time in an apartment?

Seriously, weigh up the pros and cons and build your dream house, you have so much more from it really and you are in an excellent financial position to do so.