What would you do?

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

I think you are under estimating the cost of furnishing etc, obviously depends on what you are into but 20k would hardly touch the sides.

You could spend that on a dining table and chairs and couches

Decent carpets and wooden floors are expensive , curtains are expensive , beds mattresses are expensive

Decent paint and decent painters are expensive

You can do all that cheap, get laminate floors etc etc but I personally don't see the point.

Anyway I think you have your mind made up so I won't try convince you otherwise any more

We went through the same thing, and nearly moved back home bit ulitmately for career opportunities and quality of life we decided against it

He is only fitting out a few of the rooms and doing the rest over time. We will help him with the painting and decorating so that's just cost of materials for him. He won't even need brushes etc as we have them due to my dad working in that sector.

I would be looking to go with a higher finish than him, (appliances and furniture) which is why I have budgeted more but I have more disposable income, don't have kids etc so I understand where he is coming from (he's pretty much not arsed spending a fortune on great furniture that his kids will ruin, he's looking more at something sturdy and easy to clean).

We would probably not finish the entire house from the outset as I think you can get caught up in one set design / trend. I would probably do up certain sections as something to keep me ticking over at the weekends and I like having little projects to plan and do.

awec

There are only two of you, I am not sure why you are bothered about the size of the place?

The only options I would personally consider would be to either buy a property in Dublin right now that you'd be happy to live in for a relatively long time if you had to, or move down the country right now to a house you'd be happy to live in forever.

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

I think the reason why people are not really getting the point of your idea is that 200-220k is only going to buy you some mediocre apartment in the locations you like, this is why I said go and view everything you can because it's a good reality check. Buying something is a big commitment and will be differently approached than renting a place.
Also there is a number of posters here that did buy during the boom planning to do what you're doing and they burned themselves and are now stuck with properties that are more of a burden than anything else. Which is a fair point because if for some reason the market will go to sh1te in the next 5 years, you're stuck in a starter home and won't be able for a long time to move on. That's why people recommend to spend more on something that you actually like.

Honestly OP, I'd probably look into building sooner rather than later. The process itself will take a while and you're about to commit financially to a mortgage after all. If anything goes wrong you're fkd. You know what you want, you seem smart enough for that but you're not done in Dublin yet. I think compromises need to be made there and honestly a mortgage that somewhat ties you to Dublin is the worst one. You want to be mortgage-free ASAP, then don't go for a compromise like this but look into what you really want. You don't want to commit to country life yet, and you don't want to commit to a huge mortgage but are willing to commit to a property that can be a possible predicament for you? This is the point that doesn't make any sense to a lot of posters here.
Also for a larger mortgage you'll need a larger deposit which is 20% from then on. Can you save that much over the time in an apartment?

Seriously, weigh up the pros and cons and build your dream house, you have so much more from it really and you are in an excellent financial position to do so.

The reason I'm looking at a 2 bed apartment within an easy commute to the city centre is for the reason you pointed out, if the market does go to **** I won't mind living in it. I also won't mind renting it out if I have to. The mortgage itself won't be large and if I'm spending 200-225k on an apartment / house even if it dropped in value by 20-30% it's not a massive amount and would still be more cost efficient than spending 100k on renting here.

I'm not looking to buy this property with the view that it will increase in value and then I can use that increase to buy a bigger place. It's merely so that I don't spend 100-150k on rent in the next 5-7 years. This is a guaranteed hit of that money no matter what way I look at it.

The 20% needed for a future deposit is something I am not worried about having. We have more than that in cash at the moment and unless the property that we purchased tanked in value by 60% or more we'd still have it.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Maybe built, they couldn't have floored and furnished it for that, if you want to do that properly , decent kitchen etc it'll add up

Although you can do all that cheap and have a cheap for out same way you can self manage and pay local lads cash if you are they way inclined

Well one was maybe not totally finished as in only 3 out of 5 bedrooms furnished for now, only one of two sitting rooms furnished, office not fitted out etc but complete kitchen (to very high standards), two ensuite bedrooms fully fished with large walk in wardrobes, all flooring wooden flooring/carpets done etc etc. Basically fully finished in the required rooms and the rest being done gradually in the coming years.

Another two completely furnished downstairs (which included two out of 4 bedrooms) but left upstairs to be done gradually with just a builders finish for now.

fartyarse

OK this is EERILY similar to the situation myself and my partner are in.

Have you gone looking at houses yet? Like actively viewing and bidding? It's a f*cking minefield. I've loved 3 houses now, put in bids, gotten involved in bidding wars, only for the houses to sell for 80-100k more than the asking price (and 50k more than we are willing to pay). I'd be lying if I said many tears have been shed.

Same boat also re not wanting to spend crazy money on a house in dublin, just because it's dublin.

I'm not contributing much really here but just a word of caution that being a wannabe-buyer in Dublin right now is MINUS ELEVEN craic.

PhoenixParker

I'm not sure why you keep talking about €400K tp €600k and making dire predictions about penury.

A mortgage of €250k paid back at €1250 a month will have you mortgage free by your mid fifties, be considerably cheaper then your current rent and combined with your savings get you somewhere you could happily live forever in.

madethisup2017

awec wrote: »

There are only two of you, I am not sure why you are bothered about the size of the place?

The only options I would personally consider would be to either buy a property in Dublin right now that you'd be happy to live in for a relatively long time if you had to, or move down the country right now to a house you'd be happy to live in forever.

Yeah, we are in a 2 bed right now and it's more than enough space for us. That's why I'm not considering a one bed property. I like having a bit extra room and it's nice when we are burdened blessed to have visitors.

I could probably spend the rest of my life in an apartment for the sheer convenience of it, but the draw of quietness and an easy life in the country is hard to turn down.

So if the $hit did hit the fan and we needed to stay in Dublin for another 10 years I would be making sure this was somewhere I'd be comfortable staying in.

madethisup2017

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

Well one was maybe not totally finished as in only 3 out of 5 bedrooms furnished for now, only one of two sitting rooms furnished, office not fitted out etc but complete kitchen (to very high standards), two ensuite bedrooms fully fished with large walk in wardrobes, all flooring wooden flooring/carpets done etc etc. Basically fully finished in the required rooms and the rest being done gradually in the coming years.

Another two completely furnished downstairs (which included two out of 4 bedrooms) but left upstairs to be done gradually with just a builders finish for now.

Bit off topic, but how do you like the second en suite? This is something we are looking at for when we build. It seems to make sense as it will allow guests to feel more comfortable. Did you put a shower in there? What's heating it if you did,


All the questions!!

awec

madethisup2017 wrote: »

Bit off topic, but how do you like the second en suite? This is something we are looking at for when we build. It seems to make sense as it will allow guests to feel more comfortable. Did you put a shower in there? What's heating it if you did,


All the questions!!

I know you didn't ask me, but IMO it would be a complete waste of money to put a second en-suite in a house inhabited 95% of the time by 2 people.

LirW

Morgan free

:pac:


Anyway, as a poster above said, the market is a minefield, the chances are high you'll find yourself frustrated because the prices are bojangles and go so much higher. As for houses in Dublin sitting on the market for some time, they usually do when something is seriously wrong with them, like messed up titles, fire safety issues etc.
Also everything priced at your preferred range is so mediocre that I personally wouldn't bother committing to it really. It's huge money for something that can be so unsatisfying. In the end you don't know if you can hear your neighbors water pump in the middle of the night because walls are thinner than you thought.

madethisup2017

fartyarse wrote: »

OK this is EERILY similar to the situation myself and my partner are in.

Have you gone looking at houses yet? Like actively viewing and bidding? It's a f*cking minefield. I've loved 3 houses now, put in bids, gotten involved in bidding wars, only for the houses to sell for 80-100k more than the asking price (and 50k more than we are willing to pay). I'd be lying if I said many tears have been shed.

Same boat also re not wanting to spend crazy money on a house in dublin, just because it's dublin.

I'm not contributing much really here but just a word of caution that being a wannabe-buyer in Dublin right now is MINUS ELEVEN craic.

No, we've not looked yet, we actually just spent a week looking for a new rented property as we are leaving our current one. It went smoother than I thought despite being an hour or so too late on a preferred one.

We have been chatting to friends who are viewing and have bought in loads of different places (Clontarf, raheny, skerries, killester etc) one of them is actually looking at apartments for himself so I need to chat to him on his hunt.

We are probably going to start viewing in the next month or so but it will just be to get an idea of what's out there. It will be early next year before we start the stress of actually scouting places, with the tears for my gf to last the next 6-8 months after that.

I don't get emotionally involved in people (yeah, she's a lucky woman), let alone properties so I won't be drawn into a tug of war on pricing for somewhere. If it falls outside of the cost benefit of renting for the next few years then I will not get involved in bidding crazy prices.

madethisup2017

awec wrote: »

I know you didn't ask me, but IMO it would be a complete waste of money to put a second en-suite in a house inhabited 95% of the time by 2 people.

You have ruan as your profile pic so I will take your feelings on board no matter what you say

Cyrus

one last question,

have you looked at what you think your salaries will be if you move versus the mortgage you will have and what your disposable income will be compared to if you stayed in dublin and paid 600k for a place and had 'dublin' salaries

leave the oh no we have a massive mortgage out of it,

maybe its night and day but id be interested to see the numbers

Cyrus

Aspen Obnoxious Dollar wrote: »

Well one was maybe not totally finished as in only 3 out of 5 bedrooms furnished for now, only one of two sitting rooms furnished, office not fitted out etc but complete kitchen (to very high standards), two ensuite bedrooms fully fished with large walk in wardrobes, all flooring wooden flooring/carpets done etc etc. Basically fully finished in the required rooms and the rest being done gradually in the coming years.

Another two completely furnished downstairs (which included two out of 4 bedrooms) but left upstairs to be done gradually with just a builders finish for now.

so a 3000 sq ft house for a little over 200k with a very high spec kitchen, with about 60% of the house furnished.

sorry i cant see how thats possible but maybe our definitions of a quality finish are different or something

awec

madethisup2017 wrote: »

You have ruan as your profile pic so I will take your feelings on board no matter what you say

If it were me, and I knew with certainty (like you do) that kids were not on the horizon, I would buy or build the nicest 3 bed house I could afford in the best area I could. Realistically what do you need 4 bedrooms for? It's just more of a house to clean, heat and maintain.

A good sized master bedroom with an en-suite, a spare room and then a room left over as an office, man-cave, home gym or whatever.

Don't be sucked in by size. Nicer fixtures and fittings, nicer floors, better kitchen and better furniture trumps unused bedrooms or double garages any day.

Cyrus

awec wrote: »

If it were me, and I knew with certainty (like you do) that kids were not on the horizon, I would buy or build the nicest 3 bed house I could afford in the best area I could. Realistically what do you need 4 bedrooms for? It's just more of a house to clean, heat and maintain.

A good sized master bedroom with an en-suite, a spare room and then a room left over as an office, man-cave, home gym or whatever.

Don't be sucked in by size. Nicer fixtures and fittings, nicer floors, better kitchen and better furniture trumps unused bedrooms or double garages any day.

indeed

if we didnt have our little one my wife and i could have happily stayed in the 2 bed apartment we have previously, granted it was 1100 sq feet so relatively large, but it was perfect

madethisup2017

awec wrote: »

If it were me, and I knew with certainty (like you do) that kids were not on the horizon, I would buy or build the nicest 3 bed house I could afford in the best area I could. Realistically what do you need 4 bedrooms for? It's just more of a house to clean, heat and maintain.

A good sized master bedroom with an en-suite, a spare room and then a room left over as an office, man-cave, home gym or whatever.

Don't be sucked in by size. Nicer fixtures and fittings, nicer floors, better kitchen and better furniture trumps unused bedrooms or double garages any day.

Nail on the head.

I'm more focused on the kitchen / living room area and a large bedroom with ensuite, walk in wardrobe, etc. If it was a dormer bungalow it would be half - 3/4 the size of the upstairs space.

I don't need a house with loads of rooms, I would prefer less bedrooms with larger amounts of space, realistically my family would only visit a couple of times a year and her family would never stay over as they live beside us.

I would like to have a small snug sized living room / getaway area from the main living room (man cave if you will) to watch sport and Netflix etc on. To be honest she watches as much sport as I do so it's not that I'd get away from her in there anyway. It would be handy to have it for when her friends call over and are talking about whatever it is women talk about...chocolate, men, pippa O'connor and insanely priced handbags.

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

one last question,

have you looked at what you think your salaries will be if you move versus the mortgage you will have and what your disposable income will be compared to if you stayed in dublin and paid 600k for a place and had 'dublin' salaries

leave the oh no we have a massive mortgage out of it,

maybe its night and day but id be interested to see the numbers

We aren't on massive salaries (110k combined) at the minute in Dublin, we both, with a few more years experience, do have the chance to grow our salaries by a good amount with the right career moves.

Salaries away from here depend on where you go, etc but at a minimum you'd be looking at similar levels (-10%) to what we earn now for both of us, based on our current experience and qualifications. In other words we aren't currently earning our current salaries because we are Dublin based but we have more chances to arm the same level of salary / more than this in Dublin as there are more jobs. Similar jobs elsewhere in the country would pay the same amount.

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

We aren't on massive salaries (110k combined) at the minute in Dublin, we both, with a few more years experience, do have the chance to grow our salaries by a good amount with the right career moves.

Salaries away from here depend on where you go, etc but at a minimum you'd be looking at similar levels (-10%) to what we earn now for both of us, based on our current experience and qualifications. In other words we aren't currently earning our current salaries because we are Dublin based but we have more chances to arm the same level of salary / more than this in Dublin as there are more jobs. Similar jobs elsewhere in the country would pay the same amount.

fair enough, you should both be aiming to earn 100k plus in the next 5 - 7 years given where you are now.

The number of 100k jobs outside dublin are pretty small so i would think its a reasonably safe bet that you should expect a 30% haircut on your earning potential. The question is does that haircut still make you better off?

The point im trying to make is dont focus on the headline numbers (ie the massive mortgage). focus on the financial result.

LirW

The more you talk about your own house and how much of an idea you have how it should be the less I understand why you'd bother buying for a few years in Dublin with all the risks involved. Rent for another year, then go, plan and build your house. Wouldn't wanna risk the FTB status and potential negative equity (if you're in it and can't cover the difference to write a 0 you won't find a buyer).

Cyrus

LirW wrote: »

The more you talk about your own house and how much of an idea you have how it should be the less I understand why you'd bother buying for a few years in Dublin with all the risks involved. Rent for another year, then go, plan and build your house. Wouldn't wanna risk the FTB status and potential negative equity (if you're in it and can't cover the difference to write a 0 you won't find a buyer).

you make it sound like moving down the country to build a new build house on a greenfield site that probably wont be worth the build and finishing cost when its done is a risk free proposition

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

The more you talk about your own house and how much of an idea you have how it should be the less I understand why you'd bother buying for a few years in Dublin with all the risks involved. Rent for another year, then go, plan and build your house. Wouldn't wanna risk the FTB status and potential negative equity (if you're in it and can't cover the difference to write a 0 you won't find a buyer).

I need to stay in Dublin for the next 5 - 7 years for reasons I can't discuss here. It is possible that after 4-5 years I could work remotely...come up and down a few times per week but in the mean time I need to have a presence in Dublin.

madethisup2017

Cyrus wrote: »

you make it sound like moving down the country to build a new build house on a greenfield site that probably wont be worth the build and finishing cost when its done is a risk free proposition

My view on this....It's not risk free and it may not be worth the value of the fit out and build that we put into it should we sell it, but I would not be selling it, it's a home I will be building to live in forever, so it would be worth it to me.

LirW

Cyrus wrote: »

you make it sound like moving down the country to build a new build house on a greenfield site that probably wont be worth the build and finishing cost when its done is a risk free proposition

I'm more implying that the OP wants a somewhat decent apartment in Dublin for a very small and almost unrealistic budget for anything that's not more than mediocre and putting himself in risk of being stuck and won't be able to get ahead with the initial plan. It's a step in between that sounds so incredibly boom-like. With a market volatile like this and such detailed plans the OP already has I'm having a hard time understanding this.
Every property purchase has risks involved, at least he can skip a whole lot of risks if he goes on with the 'forever home' plan.


EDIT: just read OPs post that he actually is tied for a while to Dublin. Dublin is an expensive corner to live in, if you up the budget to around 300k you'd get yourself something so much nicer, yes the repayment is higher but it's a more realistic Dublin budget. If you can justify it or not is one thing, but Dublin is expensive unless you really wanna put yourself in some dodgy corner. The one you set yourself is really ambitious and please don't be disappointed if you realize what it can buy you in reality.
Check all the areas you are interested in the property price register. That usually helps to get a better picture.

Cyrus

madethisup2017 wrote: »

My view on this....It's not risk free and it may not be worth the value of the fit out and build that we put into it should we sell it, but I would not be selling it, it's a home I will be building to live in forever, so it would be worth it to me.

absolutely and thats important,

i was responding to the point about a doomsday scenario which would also apply to this house if you had to sell it

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

I'm more implying that the OP wants a somewhat decent apartment in Dublin for a very small and almost unrealistic budget for anything that's not more than mediocre and putting himself in risk of being stuck and won't be able to get ahead with the initial plan. It's a step in between that sounds so incredibly boom-like. With a market volatile like this and such detailed plans the OP already has I'm having a hard time understanding this.
Every property purchase has risks involved, at least he can skip a whole lot of risks if he goes on with the 'forever home' plan.


EDIT: just read OPs post that he actually is tied for a while to Dublin. Dublin is an expensive corner to live in, if you up the budget to around 300k you'd get yourself something so much nicer, yes the repayment is higher but it's a more realistic Dublin budget. If you can justify it or not is one thing, but Dublin is expensive unless you really wanna put yourself in some dodgy corner. The one you set yourself is really ambitious and please don't be disappointed if you realize what it can buy you in reality.
Check all the areas you are interested in the property price register. That usually helps to get a better picture.

I may end up having to go to €250k for an apartment which I would be fine with having to do, I think.

I again must stress I'm not buying this property with the hope that it increases in value. It's more that if it doesn't decrease by more than 100k if I sell it after 5 -7 years then I will have been in a better position than renting. i.e. I'd be sure that my rent wouldn't increase, that the landlord isn't going to sell the place and I'll have to move, I can paint it and decorate it etc.

Yes, there are costs associated with owning a place but from my last 8 years of renting in Dublin I think the landlord has put in less money in the upkeep of the place than I have (I paint it myself to keep it updated). So with some luck I shouldn't have to spend more than 10-15k throughout the duration of owning it on maintaining the property itself.

I have been checking the property register to see what places were being sold for during 2009-2014 to see if the $hit hit the fan what they'd be. As I said before, I'm not purchasing a property with the intention of selling it for a profit at the end, I am factoring in that it may decrease in value. I would also be buying somewhere I could live in / rent easily for a long period should it decrease significantly enough that selling it is not a viable option.

LirW

Honestly, I don't think (but can't predict of course) that you will make a loss. But the possibility and threat of negative equity is real. If you get caught in it you literally can't move on, if your property does have negative equity the bank won't let you sell because you can't clear the mortgage if you sell. And if you can you might end up not having a deposit for anything else.
This is what I'd consider carefully, just these what if-situation. From this point of view it is treated a bit like an investment.

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think (but can't predict of course) that you will make a loss. But the possibility and threat of negative equity is real. If you get caught in it you literally can't move on, if your property does have negative equity the bank won't let you sell because you can't clear the mortgage if you sell. And if you can you might end up not having a deposit for anything else.
This is what I'd consider carefully, just these what if-situation. From this point of view it is treated a bit like an investment.

This is a reason I'm going for a lower priced property, one that will still allow me to rent it out or live in but also one that even if it lost 50% of its value I would be able to hold on to because my LTV rate from the outset would be about 60-70% and I'd be overpaying the mortgage as I go.

If the property wasn't sellable in 6 years I would still have been able to save about €100k in that time in a separate savings account while still paying down the mortgage.

I know it comes with certain degrees of risks but I also know if I continue to rent at current market rate I will be paying out 100-140k over the next 5-7 years here in Dublin. That's money I'm definitely never getting back one way or another. If I was single and paying 600 a month in rent I wouldn't be having this conversation as it would make mor sense to rent and have the p ability to move to a new place or emigrate if I wanted but as a couple we are paying out a large sum and we are happy living in ireland.

LirW

You really seem to have all of your ducks in a row then. I think you can go and start looking as this will take time anyway. I hope you're going to find what you're looking for.

madethisup2017

LirW wrote: »

You really seem to have all of your ducks in a row then. I think you can go and start looking as this will take time anyway. I hope you're going to find what you're looking for.

If it all goes tit$ up we can look back at this and have a right old laugh.......as I finish off the end of the cyanide.