Working life

Ubbquittious

Django99 wrote: »

The amount of hours we work is steadily declining already. It would be a big jump to go from 5 days to 4 days. There would be a lot of lost productivity in a very short space of time. If for example, we dropped Friday from the working week, then Thursday afternoons would become a period when people zone out as you say.

100 years ago people worked far more hours than they do now. In 100 years people will work less. Unfortunately you were born whenever you were born, and you live at a time when 9-5 5 days a week is the norm. In your lifetime that may decrease even further, but there's not a whole lot you can do about it either way.

Depends on where you lived and what you did. Some people worked far less and not just elite white horse riding types

scudzilla

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

I'm a college student but this is something that has really been bothering me over the last year or so.

When I graduate it'll probably be in some kind of office job (if I get a job) where I'll probably be working for some manager who I quite dislike but I'll probably become similar to over the next 40 years. Anyway, work your life away while the founder becomes rich and you earn a wage which is sufficient for survival but not really sufficient for growth and self actualisation.

Perhaps this is just me being slightly anti capitalist as it seems to be the done thing. I view it as working your life away and I would imagine it could become my greatest regret.

I'm still in college though, studying to gain one of these jobs so I do feel very hypocritical at times.

Entrepreneurship is honestly the only viable solution that I can see as I don't see a life on social welfare as particularly fulfilling either.

You're lucky that you've twigged this while you're still young and have no ties, i'd love to drop hours but have a family to support

timthumbni

Smurfette principle wrote: »

lol not everyone who is good at their job does it to be a lickarse, as hard as it might be for you to understand a lot of people work hard because they enjoy what they do, Personally I think you are the silly ****er because you are on here bitching about a job you obviously hate but haven't got the balls to quit so would rather complain and put everyone else down just because they are happier in their job than you are. If all you want to do in your job is bare minimum than that's fair enough, it's no one else's business, but don't criticize others just because just because you can't be arsed to take your finger out of your hole and try improve your situation.

I'm talking about working practises in general in the uk/Ireland as first world countries. Though you do sound like one of those brown nosing "silly ****ers" to coin your own delightful phrase.

eeguy

timthumbni wrote: »

Aye the dole certainly isn't good. However I often think that the lower working class (which I would really probably fall under myself ) really gets shafted. If you take into account housing benefit (I'm from ni so not sure what you call it down south) and the costs associated with working (travel etc) then I probably have little more than someone on welfare. That is very depressing for me tbh.

Its a funny paradigm that people feel the need to get a good job to pay for a mortgage on a house they only need to be close to their good job.

Friends of mine are breaking their balls working to pay for a mortgage on a house in London and have no disposable income to speak of.
This will continue for at least 20 years.
They could just as easy buy a cheap house in the country, get less well paid jobs and have more disposable income as a result.

I had a chat with a coworker recently. I work just outside Dublin. My coworker bought a house for 300k in the city. I'm looking at ones for 200k well outside the city.
We'd have a similar commute. He thought I was mad. Sure you can't go out in Dublin, you're away from the nightlife, the gigs, the convenience etc. My reply was that he's essentially paying 100k plus interest for that convenience. an extra 10 years of mortgage payments. Personally its not worth it.

Django99

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Depends on where you lived and what you did. Some people worked far less and not just elite white horse riding types

True, but the exact same can be said for today, and probably to a larger degree. But if we talk about the working class, or the majority, working hours are down.

Danonino.

timthumbni wrote: »

Aye the dole certainly isn't good. However I often think that the lower working class (which I would really probably fall under myself ) really gets shafted. If you take into account housing benefit (I'm from ni so not sure what you call it down south) and the costs associated with working (travel etc) then I probably have little more than someone on welfare. That is very depressing for me tbh.

Dole works out at under 10k a year. You are 10000% better off with a job and definitely have far more than someone on welfare besides a little spending money (like a purpose to get up and seize a day )

The dole is a pit, it's doable for a year maybe two tops, then you're week to week, no car, no luxuries, no freedom and very hard to crawl back out and onto your feet. Like the average wage is around 30k if I remember correctly.

Then again, like everything there are plenty of stories both ways.


Speaking of houses and mortgages, that is a topic that depresses me. Im old enough to have seen prices go from approx 70k to 200k+ and dont see a way of ever affording my own outside of crippling tortuous debt or inheritance. That's sad.

I could have grabbed a mortgage in 2003, my bank practically hounded me, part of me is absolutely delighted I didnt, I'm early 30s and completely debt free, outside of €40 I haven't paid on the esb ha ha ha. Another part is thinking I'm a fool for not being part of the problem. The amount of rent I've paid the last 15 years gives me nightmares.

B.A._Baracus

timthumbni wrote: »

Does anyone else think that working is one of the biggest cons ever pulled?

Working 5/6 days a week in the year 2017 seems absurd to me.

Also the fact that those on welfare seem to be better or as well off than those of us who actually are working makes no sense at all.

We are here for a short time. I understand the need for money to live etc but do we really need to work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 etc?

Sorry to have a go at you op
But if being on the dole is better off then why aren't you on it? I mean this better life style.... all the perks.

or could it just be that you know being on the dole isn't as great as you make it and you are talking through your a$s :pac:

As for working a shorter week and making the same if not more money? that's why people chance their arm and work for themselves.
Like, working in Tesco 9am to 5pm well that's it. You get paid by the hour. But what about working for yourself? It comes with a mountain of it's own issues. But you get to charge what you think is best. You can take a friday off. You can do whatever you want. You are your own boss.

Wheeliebin30

OP you should try Venezuela.

They have all anti capitalist beliefs and I believe the country is thriving and people are delighted with like altogether.

pickarooney

Patww79 wrote: »

I'd actually have nothing I'd want to do if I didn't work (hence I do zero at the weekends), so at least work breaks the monotony.

Full time job, no hobbies and too poor to pay for the bins. That's a fierce way to be.

pickarooney

SwD wrote: »

As my grandmother used to say:

Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.

Find a job that gives you purpose.

So should we all become prostitutes, Father?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Actually nearly died there.

Finally fell asleep but flat down on the back. My cat climbed up on me and went to sleep on my face. I began puking while in a dream, It was like I was drowning.

Finally managed to wake and turn on my side. My bitch of a cat then freaked out and extended her claws into my face.

ToddyDoody

I'm not do sure about this one.

Statistics show that lottery winners who don't have to work are, in the long run, more likely to commit suicide than people who have lost a close family member.

Having it easy with no conflicts at all is terrible for psychic health, believe it or not. It's a bit like letting a battery go out of date and die of its own accord where you're better off putting it in a circuit and letting the charge jump hoops through the system to make it work.

Ulysses Gaze

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I'm not do sure about this one.

Statistics show that lottery winners who don't have to work are, in the long run, more likely to commit suicide than people who have lost a close family member.

Having it easy with no conflicts at all is terrible for psychic health, believe it or not. It's a bit like letting a battery go out of date and die of its own accord where you're better off putting it in a circuit and letting the charge jump hoops through the system to make it work.

Saw a programme that showed similar.

No harm going from full time work to part time work and study.

Or full time study for a masters or PhD

Permabear

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donegaLroad

timthumbni wrote: »

Does anyone else think that working is one of the biggest cons ever pulled?

Working 5/6 days a week in the year 2017 seems absurd to me.

Also the fact that those on welfare seem to be better or as well off than those of us who actually are working makes no sense at all.

We are here for a short time. I understand the need for money to live etc but do we really need to work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 etc?

I read somewhere that 85% of all files, will remain filed... so all those Excel spreadsheets, Word documents and database files that everyone has been so busy typing up, (doing over-time, queuing in traffic, panicking because they are running late, arguing with their co-workers, hating their 'job', family life suffering because of work load, premature aging etc).... will all have been for nothing, and as they lie there on their death bed, they will be overcome by a sudden dawn of realisation... that they will have wasted the one life that they have been given.

There have been many people found dead at work, slumped across their office desk.. their belongs are all put away and the office tidied up. Three weeks later, there is not one word about them, and all their files will remain filed.

OldMrBrennan83

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Pwindedd

I like my 9-5 office "drudgery". It gives me a purpose. The work stimulates my brain on a daily basis. In exchange I get money to feed, clothe and entertain myself in my free time. Time off from work is treasured and anticipated with delight of course, but if left to my own devices for too long with no purpose I slowly start to become unhinged. Maybe I'm just lucky in that the 9-5 life suits me, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

donegaLroad

Patww79 wrote: »

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ok, so you get paid to come in every morning, build a wall, and at the end of the day knock it down again. Do this for 20 years and your employer will give you some money so you can change the car, go for a holiday once a year to get away from your meaningless job, and to be able to afford to pay for (or rent) your over-valued property which you spend little time in anyway because you are at work during the day. And this is not wasting your life?

OldMrBrennan83

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Allinall

donegaLroad wrote: »

ok, so you get paid to come in every morning, build a wall, and at the end of the day knock it down again. Do this for 20 years and your employer will give you some money so you can change the car, go for a holiday once a year to get away from your meaningless job, and to be able to afford to pay for (or rent) your over-valued property which you spend little time in anyway because you are at work during the day. And this is not wasting your life?

Every life is wasted in that case.

Everyone dies in the end, so what's the point of anything ?

Cubik

donegaLroad wrote: »

ok, so you get paid to come in every morning, build a wall, and at the end of the day knock it down again. Do this for 20 years and your employer will give you some money so you can change the car, go for a holiday once a year to get away from your meaningless job, and to be able to afford to pay for (or rent) your over-valued property which you spend little time in anyway because you are at work during the day. And this is not wasting your life?

But how is it wasting your life to make an income? And what makes a job meaningless? Money is not given out for nothing!

This is what I don't get when people criticise the life of drudgery of the worker - it's as if there's an alternative that doesn't involve earning an income but you can still have all you need. It's crap sometimes having to go to work, but it's even more crap having no money or not enough to get by.

donegaLroad

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

what did people do before the 9 - 5?

Life did exist back then you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc

mojesius

Going on maternity leave soon then thinking of jacking the current office job in soon afterwards. I've been slowly burning out the last few years and really it's not what I want to stay in long term. I'm a hard worker and wont put my name to ****e work and that inevitably has led to some climbing up the ladder and the stresses that brings. However I'm not ambitious in the career sense, ie the thought of reaching a senior management level in my company sends shivers down my spine.

Really I'd love to have my own little business, nothing too big, just enough to have a happy stable living, and a better quality of life.

Cubik

donegaLroad wrote: »

what did people do before the 9 - 5?

Life did exist back then you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khOaAHK7efc

People always had to work for an income.

During the Industrial Revolution, workers were treated appallingly - extremely long hours, only one day off a week, abuse on the job, and pitiful payment.

The guy on that video says "Don't worry about the money" which is both irresponsible and easy for him to say. He says becoming a master at what you love means you can eventually charge a fee for it - all very certain. No entrepreneurial tips from him though.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should do what they love - and try to get a job in it (I think most people do try that) or set up their own business (extremely hard work needed, and no stability but you'd be your own boss). However, doing what you love can still have drudgery aspects. You need an income though - nothing will change that.

donegaLroad

Cubik wrote: »

People always had to work for an income.

During the Industrial Revolution, workers were treated appallingly - extremely long hours, only one day off a week, abuse on the job, and pitiful payment.

The guy on that video says "Don't worry about the money" which is both irresponsible and easy for him to say. He says becoming a master at what you love means you can eventually charge a fee for it - all very certain. No entrepreneurial tips from him though.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should do what they love - and try to get a job in it (I think most people do try that) or set up their own business. But doing what you love can still have drudgery aspects. You need an income though - nothing will change that.

Do the 9 - 5 until you have start up capital, and an idea which you are passionate about.. ironically, there is more support in this country, for people who are on the dole and want to start a business.. than there is for people who have a regular job.

To a certain degree, the guy in the video (Alan Watts) is describing the perfect world. For you business, or your area of work to succeed, you would need steady customers / a source of income. This source of income would be partially dependent on money which would come from people with the 9 - 5.

WhiteMemento9

Cubik wrote: »

But how is it wasting your life to make an income? And what makes a job meaningless? Money is not given out for nothing!

This is what I don't get when people criticise the life of drudgery of the worker - it's as if there's an alternative that doesn't involve earning an income but you can still have all you need. It's crap sometimes having to go to work, but it's even more crap having no money or not enough to get by.

I think people intuitively know they are getting ****ed is the problem. If I thought that I had an adequate work/life balance with enough monetary compensation to enjoy free time it wouldn't be an issue. For the majority of working people this isn't the case. The distributional of wealth is unequal.

We should have long since been able to move to a 4 day week. If my boss gives me a job to do and say that job took 4 hours to do by the previous person in my job. Say I write a program that helps me do that job in one hour. Do you think my boss says, well done you can have the other 3 hours off? No he says well done and here is some more work. On a larger scale this has been happening throughout all industry. Technology is helping us to produce more than ever yet wages have stagnated. If you look at rise in production versus wages the trends are staggering over the last 15-20 years.

I don't think most people have a problem with the idea that you need to work to earn a living. I think most people just are more aware than ever that something seems off with the amount we have to work to earn that living and how unfairly the profits of all we are creating are distributed.

Add into all that the fact that this generation lived through the banking collapse watching working people for generations to come get raped to steady the ship while the sections of society largely to blame went untouched. It seems like party central is back in many of those quarters.

We got to work and do our job because it is what we need to do to survive. That doesn't mean I can stop my brain screaming constantly that something isn't quite right. We all know this deep down.

A lot of it depends on factors out side the job or career, individuals need to develop an inner life books, music, sport or interesting and absorbing hobbies, an intimate relationship, friends, family life.

This amount of introspection about having to work seem odd up the very recently there was very little choice it was work or starve and the ideas of having careers is very recent as well.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Critique_of_Western_civilization

Cubik

I don't think every job can be done in three days instead of five. In my job, five days sometimes isn't enough time! But it's a newish place so there aren't the resources to take on more. It involves lots of creativity though, and getting to share your own ideas, which is great. Still has drudgery aspects though.

I don't agree with that "Find a job you love and you'll never work again" stuff. A job is a job. If anything, it being a job can take some of the good out of it.

However, it's still got great aspects to it, and is of course better than doing something you don't love.

Widdershins

D Trent wrote: »

Not necessarily

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/

I knew it was going to be the film about the overprivileged and ungrateful brat who burned money before embarking on a ridiculous experiment and ultimately killing himself through his own ignorance (but not before going hungry and miserable for some time).

I think there is a lot to be said for moving to a 4 day or even a 3 day working week, even if it means working longer hours on the working days (12 - 14hrs) to make up the the hours. Two days off per week just isn't enough especially if you want to use some for sleeping in after nights out etc. Also it's very handy to have a day off on a weekday for getting things done.

I also know someone who works 7 x12 hours shifts in a row and then 7 days off. While it's tough when you are on it's a week off every second week.

Permabear

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seachto7

I often think of jobs that, if they didn't exist, nobody would miss them, and jobs, that if they didn't exist, lots of things would grinf to a halt. e.g. farmers, nurses, doctors, binmen, teachers. If they all went on strike in the morning, what would happen?

Graphic designers, ad planners, influencers. If they went on strike in the morning, would it be much of an issue?

Bit of a black and white analysis I suppose, but there you go. I see people in the industry I work in, work long hours. Call me unambitious, but I have no interest in that.

WhiteMemento9

Permabear wrote: »

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It this caused by unemployment or a lack of financial well being?

If I was unemployed without money I am looked down on by society, a lack of self worth kicks in, unable to enjoy life, crime to get money may become a possibility etc. If I had enough money in the bank to fall back on for life I could easily be unemployed for life and be a much, much happier person.

Is it the work that gives people purpose which enables them to be happier or the money they earn which enables them to live a better more fulfilled life. In some cases they overlap but for the vast majority of people they are working for the money and not so they have direction and purpose.

Given free time, money and people all around you in similar circumstances life is pretty ****ing awesome.

Permabear

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eeguy

People have to work. End of. If nobody worked then what would you do?

Go traveling? Who's going to fly you? Who's going to feed you when you get there? Who's going to build the car or the shoes you need?

You'd have to do this all yourself and spend more time and effort than if you just worked your dead end 9-5.

Cubik

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Given free time, money and people all around you in similar circumstances life is pretty ****ing awesome.

Well of course, but seeing as most people don't have that option, the only alternative is to earn the money you need.

And if I won the lottery, sure, I would spend as long as I could travelling and relaxing, but I know I would eventually want focus and I'd either set up my own business or go back to college.

I have been unemployed briefly and it starts off grand - great even, but then the isolation kicks in (not much fun doing everything on your own while everyone else is at work) and the days just merge into an indistinguishable blur. The weekend is the same as any day.

Cubik

eeguy wrote: »

People have to work. End of. If nobody worked then what would you do?

Go traveling? Who's going to fly you? Who's going to feed you when you get there? Who's going to build the car or the shoes you need?

You'd have to do this all yourself and spend more time and effort than if you just worked your dead end 9-5.

Yeah I don't get why there seems to be an implication that there's an alternative. Well there is, but it's not much, and it involves being a sponge.

WhiteMemento9

Permabear wrote: »

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Why are you twisting this into asking me something completely irrelevant? The point is that it isn't unemployment itself that causes all its associated problems but they are mainly a by product of being poor. You are painting a picture that if we lived in a society without a need for money that we would all still be better off working. All I am saying is that we should be working less. I am under no illusions that work is still needed to survive. You seem to be arguing though that if I did have the money in the bank that I would still be better off working because the work is what is giving my life purpose which is ridiculous.

WhiteMemento9

It is typical capitalist thinking to be about the individual and I am alright jack I got my four day week. I can guarantee you life and free time are far more enjoyable when you have people around you in similar circumstances. A society in which we all work less would be the far more beneficial to both the individual and the collective.

Pwindedd

Ive often thought that 8-6 Mon-Thurs would be an agreeable alternative. But in an office with lots of interdepartmental interaction you'd need everyone on board . My job unfortunately doesn't exist in a vacuum . Nor that of my colleagues. Shame. Could work quite well.

Danonino.

I does work and can work but a lot of employers aren't open to the idea or with having an extra staff member to cover hours.

One staff member Mon - Thu
Another Tues - Fri

Things like that.
Many people enjoy the Mon-Fri and the pay/security/routine that comes with that. Personally, 4 days would be exactly what I would like. I'd happily take the hit in wage for the reduced working hours. Many wouldn't, I have the freedom where the hit wouldn't affect me (I'd be very happy to sacrifice the extra disposable for the time to spend on my inexpensive hobbies), I'm sure there are folk who would find the difference not worth the free time trade off. 48 days a year is a lot of hours unpaid, could make a fairly big change to a lot of people's disposable income and how they spend that which is understandable. Different strokes different folk.

Permabear

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Danonino.

Warren Buffett needs to buy himself a Nintendo switch and start playing some mario kart for himself :pac:

WhiteMemento9

Permabear wrote: »

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tbh, I don't know. I actually watched the recent HBO documentary on Buffet only last week. I found it all very sad. His wife left him, he pulls up to McDonalds in the morning with the exact change to buy his McDonalds breakfast to the exact penny, I kid you not. He had intended to give loads of money to charity. He has been putting it off for years and years under the guise of wanting to give a bigger pot when the times comes but if you listen it is because money is his score card. He seems to derive most of his self worth from it. I guess in some attempt to instill the same work ethic in his children he did things like buying a house for one of them and then charging him full rent on it. I found it all incredibly sad and ending up feeling a little sorry for him in the end.

My only guess is an ingrained societal thing that people find it hard to break from or have a fear of what else would they do. I can tell you I still wouldn't have enough hours in the day if I didn't need to work and had a full bank account.

Joshua J

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

tbh, I don't know. I actually watched the recent HBO documentary on Buffet only last week. I found it all very sad. His wife left him, he pulls up to McDonalds in the morning with the exact change to buy his McDonalds breakfast to the exact penny, I kid you not. He had intended to give loads of money to charity. He has been putting it off for years and years under the guise of wanting to give a bigger pot when the times comes but if you listen it is because money is his score card. He seems to derive most of his self worth from it. I guess in some attempt to instill the same work ethic in his children he did things like buying a house for one of them and then charging him full rent on it. I found it all incredibly sad and ending up feeling a little sorry for him in the end.

My only guess is an ingrained societal thing that people find it hard to break from or have a fear of what else would they do. I can tell you I still wouldn't have enough hours in the day if I didn't need to work and had a full bank account.

It's ingrained in us from a young age, the normality of excess labour. How can people fathom another way to live?. Kids don't stand a chance.

Optimalprimerib

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Oh look another "those on welfare have two mercs in the driveway, go on two holidays a year and eat caviar for breakfast" thread. Who'd have thought it?

Oh look another "oh look another" post. How original

eeguy

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

tbh, I don't know. I actually watched the recent HBO documentary on Buffet only last week. I found it all very sad. His wife left him, he pulls up to McDonalds in the morning with the exact change to buy his McDonalds breakfast to the exact penny, I kid you not. He had intended to give loads of money to charity. He has been putting it off for years and years under the guise of wanting to give a bigger pot when the times comes but if you listen it is because money is his score card. He seems to derive most of his self worth from it. I guess in some attempt to instill the same work ethic in his children he did things like buying a house for one of them and then charging him full rent on it. I found it all incredibly sad and ending up feeling a little sorry for him in the end.

My only guess is an ingrained societal thing that people find it hard to break from or have a fear of what else would they do. I can tell you I still wouldn't have enough hours in the day if I didn't need to work and had a full bank account.

Priorities man, that's what he wants in life. Same as you want more time with family at the expense of more money, he wants more money at the expense of family.

He'd probably thinks you're sad for wanting more family time.

Sam Kade

timthumbni wrote: »

Does anyone else think that working is one of the biggest cons ever pulled?

Working 5/6 days a week in the year 2017 seems absurd to me.

Also the fact that those on welfare seem to be better or as well off than those of us who actually are working makes no sense at all.

We are here for a short time. I understand the need for money to live etc but do we really need to work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 etc?

Either work half the week for half pay or else become a hunted gratherer, come back and tell us how you got on.

Danonino.

eeguy wrote: »

Priorities man, that's what he wants in life. Same as you want more time with family at the expense of more money, he wants more money at the expense of family.

He'd probably thinks you're sad for wanting more family time.

"Ah remember your man who worked all the time and didn't spend anything?"

"I do yeah, he was some craic"

jacksie66

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