Do I need to disclose the exact illness for sick leave?

LegacyUser

Hi,

I'm going through a tough time at the moment have been diagnosed with depression. I never thought it would happen to me, but I guess the nights spent crying myself to sleep just got more and more frequent, and here I am.

I know it's not something to be embarrassed about and something we should be able to talk about openly - but I can't help but feel a bit embarrassed. I know I'm setting mental health campaigns back 5/10 years by saying that, but I can't help it. But I certainly don't want anyone at work knowing what's wrong with me.

The problem is my manager (and head of our department) is a loudmouth. He has no sense of what is private and confidential, and what isn't. Once he knows something, he has to tell someone to keep up his appearance of being the guy that's always in-the-know. I've heard him discuss illnesses, colleague's salaries etc. before and I do not want this man to know what I've been diagnosed with.

I was signed off with stress earlier this year, and my GP just wrote down "Unfit to work" but in my return to work interview, I had to fill out a form giving the exact reason and my manager had to sign it.

I'm not aware of what rights (if any) I have here. Do I have to disclose the nature of the illness?

Thanks.

narwhal

Hi there,

In short, no you do not need to disclose the nature of an illness to your employer.

Under data protection, the nature of an illness is regarded as sensitive information. Your employer only needs to know for how long you will be out of work and if you are capable of doing the work. An employer will need your consent to hold sensitive information, i.e. the nature of your illness.

If your employer asked you to attend an occupational health physician, they would still need your consent to know the nature of your illness.

If you have to get a certificate from a doctor, just ask them not to state your illness.

Thanks,

narwhal

LegacyUser

narwhal wrote: »

Hi there,

In short, no you do not need to disclose the nature of an illness to your employer.

Under data protection, the nature of an illness is regarded as sensitive information. Your employer only needs to know for how long you will be out of work and if you are capable of doing the work. An employer will need your consent to hold sensitive information, i.e. the nature of your illness.

If your employer asked you to attend an occupational health physician, they would still need your consent to know the nature of your illness.

If you have to get a certificate from a doctor, just ask them not to state your illness.

Thanks,

narwhal

I disagree with this, purely because there are supports in Health and Safety legislation available to you and your employer must support this. I think it's important to inform HR of your situation so you can be reasonably supported and not alone throughout. There will be confidentiality associated with this.

narwhal

Purty wrote: »

narwhal wrote: »

Hi there,

In short, no you do not need to disclose the nature of an illness to your employer.

Under data protection, the nature of an illness is regarded as sensitive information. Your employer only needs to know for how long you will be out of work and if you are capable of doing the work. An employer will need your consent to hold sensitive information, i.e. the nature of your illness.

If your employer asked you to attend an occupational health physician, they would still need your consent to know the nature of your illness.

If you have to get a certificate from a doctor, just ask them not to state your illness.

Thanks,

narwhal

I disagree with this, purely because there are supports in Health and Safety legislation available to you and your employer must support this. I think it's important to inform HR of your situation so you can be reasonably supported and not alone throughout. There will be confidentiality associated with this.

This person is asking if he/she must disclose his/her illness. In this case, there is no requirement.

It can be a good idea to let HR know if you're confident it will be kept confidential. This person doesn't seem to think their manager will keep it confidential, and there hasn't been a mention of a HR department.

narwhal

Purty wrote: »

narwhal wrote: »

Hi there,

In short, no you do not need to disclose the nature of an illness to your employer.

Under data protection, the nature of an illness is regarded as sensitive information. Your employer only needs to know for how long you will be out of work and if you are capable of doing the work. An employer will need your consent to hold sensitive information, i.e. the nature of your illness.

If your employer asked you to attend an occupational health physician, they would still need your consent to know the nature of your illness.

If you have to get a certificate from a doctor, just ask them not to state your illness.

Thanks,

narwhal

I disagree with this, purely because there are supports in Health and Safety legislation available to you and your employer must support this. I think it's important to inform HR of your situation so you can be reasonably supported and not alone throughout. There will be confidentiality associated with this.

This person is asking if he/she must disclose his/her illness. In this case, there is no requirement.

It can be a good idea to let HR know if you're confident it will be kept confidential. This person doesn't seem to think their manager will keep it confidential, and there hasn't been a mention of a HR department.

Wanderer2010

No OP, you do NOT have to state the exact reason and if your manager asks you tell him you are not going to do that and if he presses tell him firmly to let it go. I would be having a word to your HR rep if you have one about this guy, its very very unprofessional to be gossiping about your workers and talking about their illnesses.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the responses.

I had a look at our sick leave policy and it states this:

"Managers will complete a Return to Work Interview for each employee folloring each period of absence, regardless of the time period or whether they are paid or unpaid. It is at this meeting that the manager will establish:

1. The medical reason for the absence."

I knew there was wording similar to this the first time I was signed off, and I was told in my interview I had to disclose why I was absent because the cert just said "Medical Illness". Does that mean the above requirement is illegal (or false, or whatever the correct term is?)....?

Is there any act or statute I can refer to when I am pressure to disclose what my medical issue was when I return?

Peanut2011

Op, this is what I was able to find out:

"According to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, there is no specific legislation relating to mental health, however the area is covered by the Employment Equality Act 1998, under the subject of disability. This act covers all relevant areas from access to employment, through to working conditions, training and promotion.

No obligation to disclose"

banie01

Does the medical reason for absence need to be disclosed to any Doctor which the employer sends an employee to?
e.g if out on a cert and the company requests review with an occupational health service would you need to disclose? Or is it sufficient to refer the reviewing Doctor to your G.P/Specialist?

Jim2007

banie01 wrote: »

Does the medical reason for absence need to be disclosed to any Doctor which the employer sends an employee to?
e.g if out on a cert and the company requests review with an occupational health service would you need to disclose? Or is it sufficient to refer the reviewing Doctor to your G.P/Specialist?

Well if you are required to attend a doctor selected by the company and refuse to cooperate with him, then you run the risk of being certified fit for work... The doctor will not disclose your discussions with him to the company, so I don't see where this is going.

amtc

I wouldn't necessarily agree. I worked for a large semi state and was required to attend a doctor by the company to assess fitness to return after a back injury. I subsequently took voluntary severance (Not related) and requested my HR file. there were a number of medical reports in file addressed to my boss (who was on the Board) detailing exact elements of my back issue, medication I was on, and even a photograph of me walking down a street taken by the company doctor. I got what I wanted so didn't pursue it by a company doctor in this case was more company than doctor.

I have a friend who had to go to rehab but didn't want his employer to know about it. He had a good relationship with his gp so they agreed to put down colitis as the reason for him being off for six weeks. Sufficiently yucky that his boss never asked and the company doctor sent him to a dietician. To this day he has to remember that he has it!

davo10

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you are required to attend a doctor selected by the company and refuse to cooperate with him, then you run the risk of being certified fit for work... The doctor will not disclose your discussions with him to the company, so I don't see where this is going.

This is correct. Patient confidentiality is sacrosanct and cannot under any circumstances be over ridden for contract of employment/company policy.

You may be required to attend an independent/company GP to confirm your inability to attend for work, you can instruct the GP not to disclose the nature of your illness to your employer, he/she must abide by this, completely or risk a visit to the Medical Council. The Company GP will just confirm that X is unable to attend for work due to illness.

amtc

I saw my own file. The company doctor disclosed everything.

davo10

amtc wrote: »

I saw my own file. The company doctor disclosed everything.

Naughty Doctor, but he was assessing your ability to return to work so there may have been H&S allowances to be made, the company can only do this if they are aware of the nature of your illness. E.g. Back problems/no lifting/ less time standing, stress/reduce work load etc.

Sue Pa Key Pa

OP, I don't have the answer to your specific question, but I just want to say I've been there and done that. It gets better. In fact, when I told my boss, it got around the office in no time (as these things do) but that gave me an enormous sense of relief and made me realise others do understand. Good luck

banie01

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you are required to attend a doctor selected by the company and refuse to cooperate with him, then you run the risk of being certified fit for work... The doctor will not disclose your discussions with him to the company, so I don't see where this is going.

As another poster here hss mentioned unfortunately privacy is not always certain in such instances.
I too am aware of instances where a report of the nature of illness was forwrded in cases such as this.
To my mind the company nominated doctor has no clinical relationship with the employee and is generating a report for a 3rd party.
In an instance where a diagnosis has been made by the employees's clinician over a period of time, surely it would be more appropriate for contact/confirmation regardingbthe likely period of absence to be made with the treating doctor?

Medical records and data are private and access to the information by a 3rd party can sometimes be distressing and where a person wishes to keep the nature of their infirmity private, surely they have a right to?
Barring of course in the circumstances of standard notifiable illness in which case a report is made to the HSE by the diagnosing practitioner.

I don't have a dog in this fight, more that I am curious as to the balance between the right to a patients privacy and the employer's right to further detail.

o1s1n

Worried_Sick wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.

I had a look at our sick leave policy and it states this:

"Managers will complete a Return to Work Interview for each employee folloring each period of absence, regardless of the time period or whether they are paid or unpaid. It is at this meeting that the manager will establish:

1. The medical reason for the absence."

I knew there was wording similar to this the first time I was signed off, and I was told in my interview I had to disclose why I was absent because the cert just said "Medical Illness". Does that mean the above requirement is illegal (or false, or whatever the correct term is?)....?

Is there any act or statute I can refer to when I am pressure to disclose what my medical issue was when I return?

I used to work for a large multi national and they brought in a new return to work interview and form process similar to the above. (new HR manager started and wanted to review the process, as they do!)

As I was a manager and would be conducting these interviews, I contacted HR and told them that I was not comfortable asking people this question (and that legally they did not have to disclose anything related to their illness)

The decision which came down was to keep the question on the form, but make it optional for the employee - so I would just tell all my own reporting agents that we would be writing 'does not wish to disclose'.

statto25

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

when I told my boss, it got around the office in no time (as these things do)

Were you OK with the boss spreading that around? I would be seriously pissed off if I told my boss something in confidence and it was spread around a company.

Needs Must

Tell them nothing, just respond with its personal, and let them take out of that what they want.
However most rational people will understand what you mean and leave it at that.

LegacyUser

Hi, OP here. Just to provide an update and hopefully get some more advice as things have played out exactly as I feared.

Just to clarify, I was diagnosed with depression which my doctor and therapist believe is heavily linked to the massive pressure I was under at work. I have been off work since mid-August.

I have been handing in a medical cert every 2 weeks stating I am unfit to work. This is fine as it does not state the reason for my absence - it just says "Medically unfit to work".

However, every week I also have to submit a social welfare form so that my employer can claim my sick leave benefits and continue to pay me my normal wage. I have to hand this form in to my manager as per company policy (and I assume he passes it on to HR). This form has to state the exact reason I'm absent (it was returned to me by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection when it only said "Medical Illness" with a note requesting I give the exact reason) so I hand in this form every week saying "Stress due to work".

My manager is the ONLY person in the office that knows I am absent due to stress, and the only reason he knows is because it's on the social welfare forms I submit to him weekly.

It's now got back to me that multiple people on other teams who my manager regularly talks to/has lunch with are aware of the specific reason I'm out. One of them approached a friend of mine and said "I hear X is out on stress leave...." while another person was overhead at his desk telling another member of staff that I was on stress leave.

The worst part is that these people aren't on my team, they're from another department entirely that we just happen to work closely with.

I'm absolutely furious and so upset about this. Do I have any course of action to take here?

amtc

davo10 wrote: »

Naughty Doctor, but he was assessing your ability to return to work so there may have been H&S allowances to be made, the company can only do this if they are aware of the nature of your illness. E.g. Back problems/no lifting/ less time standing, stress/reduce work load etc.

A desk job at senior management level and a photo taken of me walking down Henry St. Without my knowledge. Doctor was known as company hatchet man. So glad I left.

In my previous job when my back issue started they did full ergonomic assessment and that was fine

amtc

What don't you claim illness benefit and get your salary reduced? That way the company don't have to claim and your top up of salary etc.reduces your tax or so and usc liability.

On what people think don't worry about it. You can't change what they think. Personally if you are out I would not be in touch with anyone in work. You need a break for a reason. Keeping semi in touch doesn't assist

mrslancaster

Worried_Sick wrote: »

Hi, OP here. Just to provide an update and hopefully get some more advice as things have played out exactly as I feared.

However, every week I also have to submit a social welfare form so that my employer can claim my sick leave benefits and continue to pay me my normal wage. I have to hand this form in to my manager as per company policy (and I assume he passes it on to HR). This form has to state the exact reason I'm absent (it was returned to me by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection when it only said "Medical Illness" with a note requesting I give the exact reason) so I hand in this form every week saying "Stress due to work".

OP do you mean the MC2 form that the doctor signs every week? AFAIK you sign that and send it directly to DSP. Why does your employer need it if you give them a doctors note?

Illness Benefit is taxable. Some companies pay employees while they are out sick & reduce pay by the amount of illness benefit and adjust tax, prsi etc. DSP notify employer of the amount you are entitled to.