Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

Sleeper12

Phil.x wrote:

12months time bus lanes will be gone.

I can't see that happening. I think they are a great idea. Like I said above I don't think too much thought went into them. I'm thinking maybe everyone should be able to use the second bus lane off peek.
Someone who telling me yesterday about the possibility of buses and cyclists using one side of the Quays going both ways and everyone else using the other side for two way traffic. I'm not sure if it would be better or worse. There would still be only one lane on the parts of the Quay

magicbastarder

Phil.x wrote: »

12months time bus lanes will be gone.

yep, they'll have rolled out turf and turned the quays into a long thin riverside park.

Marlay

beauf wrote: »

If you sitting in traffic use something that isn't. Electric bicycle or moped etc.

Both of those options cost a fairly significant initial outlay, which not everyone can afford. Also not everyone wants, or is capable of using them. I was pointing out that the journey time by bus is not necessarily any more attractive than that by car depending on where in the city your journey starts. As journey time is often the most important factor in choosing a mode of transport, that seemed relevant.

blanch152

Marlay wrote: »

Both of those options cost a fairly significant initial outlay, which not everyone can afford. Also not everyone wants, or is capable of using them. I was pointing out that the journey time by bus is not necessarily any more attractive than that by car depending on where in the city your journey starts. As journey time is often the most important factor in choosing a mode of transport, that seemed relevant.

You can get a new electric scooter for €1495.

https://www.bikeworld.ie/site/motorcycle/new-artisan-electric-scooter/

Costs of running it would be far cheaper than a car.

You must be driving some shoddy car if you couldn't sell it and buy a second-hand scooter, meaning that there is no initial outlay at all.

Marlay

blanch152 wrote: »

You can get a new electric scooter for €1495.

https://www.bikeworld.ie/site/motorcycle/new-artisan-electric-scooter/

Costs of running it would be far cheaper than a car.

You must be driving some shoddy car if you couldn't sell it and buy a second-hand scooter, meaning that there is no initial outlay at all.

I'm sorry at what point did I say I was driving? Also that was a general comment that not everyone (including people without cars) could afford those options, it was not about me. You know some people need cars for more than getting to work also.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

You can get a new electric scooter for €1495.

https://www.bikeworld.ie/site/motorcycle/new-artisan-electric-scooter/

Costs of running it would be far cheaper than a car.

You must be driving some shoddy car if you couldn't sell it and buy a second-hand scooter, meaning that there is no initial outlay at all.

I don't need a car to commute but I need a car.

beauf

Marlay wrote: »

Both of those options cost a fairly significant initial outlay, which not everyone can afford. Also not everyone wants, or is capable of using them. I was pointing out that the journey time by bus is not necessarily any more attractive than that by car depending on where in the city your journey starts. As journey time is often the most important factor in choosing a mode of transport, that seemed relevant.

Bus ticket tax saver per year €1,320...

I was making a simple point. That if your main issue is door to door time, and being stuck in traffic is a problem on your route. Then there are options to avoid that. Bus and car are not the only options which is what is being implied by some.

beauf

Natalia Scruffy Shortbread wrote: »

I don't need a car to commute but I need a car.

I assume this thread is only about commuting...

Dravokivich

blanch152 wrote: »

You can get a new electric scooter for €1495.

https://www.bikeworld.ie/site/motorcycle/new-artisan-electric-scooter/

Costs of running it would be far cheaper than a car.

You must be driving some shoddy car if you couldn't sell it and buy a second-hand scooter, meaning that there is no initial outlay at all.

That's just an electric motorbike you are showing us.

You could get a normal motorbike for that price and still have cheaper running costs than a car.

Someone will have to get licensed for a motorbike to operate that, and I don't think this would meet the criteria to use at a test to obtain a license for it.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here?

beauf

I assume he thought they would be cheaper than a petrol. I'm not sure that's true in the long run. I think I'd go petrol or electric bicycle.

bk

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There are good arguments for the likes of MN but from a cost and practical perspective, providing the ability to have buses travel as freely as possible is the most effective improvement for the lives of thousands upon thousands of people.

Even when we finally have both MN and DU in 20 years, we will still need these sorts of bus priority measures and likely a lot more of them before then.

Look at London, one of the best underground systems in the world, yet London Bus still carries more passengers then London Underground and London still has congestion charging and similar bus priority measures.

It is the same when you look at pretty much any major city. Even when you have high quality underground system, you still need high quality bus, cycling and walking infrastructure above ground.

Yes we need MN and DU, but we also need a top quality bus service and infrastructure above ground too. Specially now as it will be years until we get MN/DU and the city is already way too congested.

LuckyLloyd

Has there ever been a piece of investigative journalism on the owners of car parks in Dublin City Centre that looks into their links to lobby groups and politicians? They seem to wield a power over transport plans / management way above and beyond what's reasonable.

markpb

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has there ever been a piece of investigative journalism on the owners of car parks in Dublin City Centre that looks into their links to lobby groups and politicians? They seem to wield a power over transport plans / management way above and beyond what's reasonable.

Personally I don't believe there's any corruption or undue influence going on. A very long time ago, the courts ruled that constitutional property rights could extend to lots of things, not just property in the normal sense. If DCC make life too difficult to motorists to reach the private car parks in the city centre, the owners/operators could sue the council on the grounds that their property rights are being infringed. DCC have to walk a careful tightrope on this one. The fact that the government gave those car park owners a grant to build there probably makes it even harder for DCC.

beauf

They could argue its not dcc but traffic that's making it hard for them

Dravokivich

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has there ever been a piece of investigative journalism on the owners of car parks in Dublin City Centre that looks into their links to lobby groups and politicians? They seem to wield a power over transport plans / management way above and beyond what's reasonable.

I don't get the ire for multi-story car parks.

i think they should be spread a bit more around the city instead of so closely packed around Jervis and Dame St areas. But I feel they can present a very viable alternative to on-street parking, which can then open up the potential for greater pedestrian / cyclist usage.

LuckyLloyd

markpb wrote: »

Personally I don't believe there's any corruption or undue influence going on. A very long time ago, the courts ruled that constitutional property rights could extend to lots of things, not just property in the normal sense. If DCC make life too difficult to motorists to reach the private car parks in the city centre, the owners/operators could sue the council on the grounds that their property rights are being infringed. DCC have to walk a careful tightrope on this one. The fact that the government gave those car park owners a grant to build there probably makes it even harder for DCC.

So, what, we need legislation or planning permission changes to fundamentally transform the city centre? Or are you suggesting that, because these car parks are now there, we're stuck cowtowing to them indefinitely?

stop

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Only hopefully?

I thought they WOULD be gone. Hmmm... I think you need to think that through.

---

First time I've managed to be awake going down the quays this week.

It's working very well. Even the sequencing letting cars through seems to calm the whole thing. ie. Drivers know they'll be moving soon enough.

Garda car on eastside of OCB so I'm guessing there was a guard in the middle on the island. Couldn't see.over.

Hopefully that shared that eejit ahead of my bus who thought he was going to be turning right!

Yup cycled this morning around 9am, single Garda alternating between OCB and OCS, I'm guessing watching for cars sneaking through the bus gate as well as looking for right turns to OCB.

magicbastarder

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't get the ire for multi-story car parks.

brown thomas getting the planning permission (from DCC, one would assume) was one of the most idiotic planning decisions i can think of. a multi-storey car park with an entrance on clarendon street and an exit on south william street, preventing proper pedestrianisation on two of the most obviously pedestrianisable (is that a word?) streets in the city centre.

Phil.x

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, they'll have rolled out turf and turned the quays into a long thin riverside park.

Now wouldn't that be great, but then the cyclists would moan that the grass is too long and people are in their way.

markpb

magicbastarder wrote: »

brown thomas getting the planning permission (from DCC, one would assume) was one of the most idiotic planning decisions i can think of. a multi-storey car park with an entrance on clarendon street and an exit on south william street, preventing proper pedestrianisation on two of the most obviously pedestrianisable (is that a word?) streets in the city centre.

I assume permission was granted in the 70s or 80s when cars were king and pedestrianising streets was almost entirely unheard of.

Different things are considered important at different times. IIRC those car parks were built at a time when Dublin was suburbanising and the city centre was being abandoned. Car parks were seen as the best way to attract people into town.

magicbastarder

markpb wrote: »

I assume permission was granted in the 70s or 80s when cars were king and pedestrianising streets was almost entirely unheard of.

the car park was opened in 1997.

beauf

Phil.x wrote: »

Now wouldn't that be great, but then the cyclists would moan that the grass is too long and people are in their way.

...what are they smoking...

07Lapierre

Phil.x wrote: »

Have you ever seen a toolbox let alone carry one, never mind the lengths of copper piping.

Edit: here's a better example:



http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bremen-germany-21st-jan-2015-plumber-theodor-roehm-rides-with-his-78621975.html

ArmaniJeanss

Phil.x wrote: »

Now wouldn't that be great, but then the cyclists would moan that the grass is too long and people are in their way.

Weren't you a cyclist only a year or so ago, extolling the virtues of two wheel commuters and giving out about vans and trucks?

AndrewJRenko

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't get the ire for multi-story car parks.

i think they should be spread a bit more around the city instead of so closely packed around Jervis and Dame St areas. But I feel they can present a very viable alternative to on-street parking, which can then open up the potential for greater pedestrian / cyclist usage.

The ire isn't so much for the car parks themselves, but for the degree of influence they have over the city's transport policy. Much of the commentary from 'city centre businesses' is actually commentary from city centre car park operators.

Phil.x

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Weren't you a cyclist only a year or so ago, extolling the virtues of two wheel commuters and giving out about vans and trucks?

No

Phil.x

07Lapierre wrote: »

Edit: here's a better example:



http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-bremen-germany-21st-jan-2015-plumber-theodor-roehm-rides-with-his-78621975.html

Yes, the Germans rule, I really love Germany, I should of moved there when I was younger.

Phil.x

Deedsie wrote: »

These changes are to accommodate bus and luas users. The only one moaning nonsensically here is you.

Well somebody has to stick up for the motorists.

NB: I haven't driven into the city for work in years.

LeinsterDub

Phil.x wrote: »

No

Phil.x wrote: »

I blame the likes of George hook for being anti cyclist on national airwaves and subconsciously brainwashing motorists to hate cyclists.

Must of been someone else

Peter Flynt

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Get out of your car so

This.

It's all about forcing people to use public transport even if the areas in which they live either have poor or no public transport facilities.

Typically Irish.

magicbastarder

Peter Flynt wrote: »

It's all about forcing people to use public transport even if the areas in which they live either have poor or no public transport facilities.

Typically Irish.

we're talking about the very centre of dublin here. quite literally the very centre of the capital city, in the context of bus lane design being reorganised to reflect the fact that there's a tram line being built across one of the main pinch points.

what has people living in areas with poor public transport got to do with it? how many people living in these areas are the ones (of a grand total of 600 people per hour) being forced to drive into the city centre via the quays?

papu

Peter Flynt wrote: »

This.

It's all about forcing people to use public transport even if the areas in which they live either have poor or no public transport facilities.

Typically Irish.

People are just lazy, the majority have perfectly fine access but it means having to walk and sit in a peasant wagon.

Phil.x

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Must of been someone else

I was only speaking what I think when listening to hook, also he takes the bait.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Phil.x

Dusseldorf have their trams underground for a couple of stop when in the city centre, proper!

papu

Patww79 wrote: »

Hate seeing stuff like this happen. Forcing people onto buses.

Carshare, cycle, scooter, jog, walk etc. Loads of options.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

papu

Patww79 wrote: »

But the one that most people want is the one that is forced out. None of the above are options, only punishments.

Very entitled view of the world, you can't always get what you want.... Well in this case you can, you just have to sit in traffic choking of fumes for your privilege.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Peter Flynt

papu wrote: »

People are just lazy, the majority have perfectly fine access but it means having to walk and sit in a peasant wagon.

Moderately sized European cities, like Dublin, have transport systems far beyond what we can even dream of.

Decades of underinvestment have led to what we've got now: A European city with a creaking infrastrusture where large parts of the suburbs and surrounding counties are left with poor transport links. A city with no rail link to its airport which nearly 30m use a year.

If the government are serious about people using public transport, then why have they cut subventions (and not restored them) by as much as 40% to Dublin Bus and others?

No instead, they privatised some routes. . . Probably signed another shoddy contract where they'll pay up on our behalf even if passenger numbers fall.

Put in place a proper transport system, fund it properly & subsidise people who use buses & bicycles and guess what?. . . People will leave their cars at home.

But No the reverse is done in IRL.

They might as well ban cars from the city centre from the phoenix park (apart from those that live in the city centre)

papu

Patww79 wrote: »

I've windows. Surely the cyclists/walkers/joggers/cartwheelers/unicyclists/etc will be the one choking on the fumes.

I'll take it.

Good man, they'll see your sour face through the windows as they go by.

Cycled down the new double bus lane today, was a dream, they just need to make d'olier street a double bus lane now.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Peter Flynt

magicbastarder wrote: »

we're talking about the very centre of dublin here. quite literally the very centre of the capital city, in the context of bus lane design being reorganised to reflect the fact that there's a tram line being built across one of the main pinch points.

what has people living in areas with poor public transport got to do with it? how many people living in these areas are the ones (of a grand total of 600 people per hour) being forced to drive into the city centre via the quays?

The redesign of the road to accommodate two bus/cycle lanes may be quite small in area but the effect is such that it will escalate well back to the phoenix park and beyond during rush hour, which is always a mess anyway.

This will leave people with no option but to take public transport and/or cycle despite the fact that many will come from areas where there is a very poor and limited choice of public transport.

I really do not see the point of creating a single lane for traffic that everyone can use. That lane should really only be for people with cars who live in the city centre. Instead this is a half-arsed solution with no thought.

One last point: Public transport in Ireland is very expensive. The price of a Dublin Bus ticket from the suburbs into the city centre would far exceed the cost of petrol, tax, insurance etc. . for a similar car journey. Similar for trains.

Phil.x

Patww79 wrote: »

I've windows. Surely the cyclists/walkers/joggers/cartwheelers/unicyclists/etc will be the one choking on the fumes.

I'll take it.

Fumes, dirty bus and car diesel fumes, that's why I stopped cycling to work.

IngazZagni

Patww79 wrote: »

Hate seeing stuff like this happen. Forcing people onto buses.

Taking choices from supposedly free people is a dangerous path.

Nobody is forcing anyone. You can still drive. I myself drive to work the vast majority of the time due to shift work. No public transport during the night.

On occasion when I use the bus I use this route along the quays. It's gridlock most of the time and really sours the experience. I often get out and walk as it's too slow. An extra bus lane should speed up journey times which should encourage more to use the buses which in turn will hopefully lower the volume of vehicles.

Grand spin in on the bus the last few mornings.


Highly recommend it folks.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

TallGlass

Isn't it amazing how people get so worked up over a line of white paint on the ground.

papu

Phil.x wrote: »

Fumes, dirty bus and car diesel fumes, that's why I stopped cycling to work.

Well

"Children are at risk of dangerous levels of air pollution in cars because exposure to toxic air is often far higher inside than outside vehicles, a former government chief scientific adviser has warned."

It applies to children it applies to you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

" A range of experiments, some as far back as 2001, have shown that drivers inside vehicles are exposed to far higher levels of air pollution than those walking or cycling along the same urban routes."

Phil.x

Peter Flynt wrote: »

subsidise people who use buses & bicycles and guess what?. . . People will leave their cars at home.

Taxsaver bus and rail, and cycle to work tax scheme.

Your point being?