Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

prinzeugen

Deedsie wrote: »

You are a member of the public and it's shared space. Our elected officials decide whats best for the majority of the public.

So any space should shared right? That means ALL users.

Our elected officials don't care about the majority. Take two DDC council members that have never replied to god knows how many letters, emails etc send by many of the residents in my area about a local issue, yet have oodles of time to go on social media 24/7 promoting cycling.

Phil.x

papu wrote: »

Well

"Children are at risk of dangerous levels of air pollution in cars because exposure to toxic air is often far higher inside than outside vehicles, a former government chief scientific adviser has warned."

It applies to children it applies to you.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

" A range of experiments, some as far back as 2001, have shown that drivers inside vehicles are exposed to far higher levels of air pollution than those walking or cycling along the same urban routes."

Don't think so buddy. Do proper research

Stephen15

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Moderately sized European cities, like Dublin, have transport systems far beyond what we can even dream of.

Decades of underinvestment have led to what we've got now: A European city with a creaking infrastrusture where large parts of the suburbs and sourrounding counties are left with poor transport links. A city with no rail link to its airport which nearly 30m use a year.

If the government are serious bout people using public transport, then why have they cut subventions (and not restored them) by as much as 40% to Dublin Bus and others?

No instead, they privatised some routes. . . Probably signed another shoddy contract where they'll pay up on our behalf even if passenger numbers fall.

Put in place a proper transport system, fund it properly & subsidise people who use buses & bicycles and guess what?. . . People will leave their cars at home.

But No the reverse is done in IRL.

They might as well ban cars from the city centre from the phoenix park (apart from those that live in the city centre)

Not one Dublin Bus route is being privatised its fake news. I assume you're talking about the routes being tendered out which is not 40% but rather 10% all of which don't even go into the cc so that point its pretty irrelevant. Anyway the NTA is planning to grow bus routes in Dublin over the next couple of years. Bus Connects is on its way. Already the 30 additional buses are being added to the fleet.

I reckon that the way people like yourself go on about how awful Dublins public transport are exaggerating. While its by no means perfect it has improved in recent years with the introduction of Leap cards, RTPI, newer buses being introduced and on bus info as well as Luas extensions and the big one which is Luas CC. I struggle to think of any major area in Dublin that dosen't have access to some sort of semi decent public transport service to the cc whether that be a frequent bus, a QBC, a railway line, the Dart, a Luas line and some cases two or more of these.

As for the direct rail link to the airport. I reckon that due to geography a direct rail link may end up taking longer than the Airlink or Aircoach that is currently. A train or a metro would likely make multiple stop en route while the bus gies through the Port Tunnel.

Cycling and using public transport is already subsidized through The Cycle to Work and The Taxsaver schemes.

I reccomend for future reference doing a little bit of research before making such generalisation posts.

Peter Flynt

prinzeugen wrote: »

So any space should shared right? That means ALL users.

Our elected officials don't care about the majority. Take two DDC council members that have never replied to god knows how many letters, emails etc send by many of the residents in my area about a local issue, yet have oodles of time to go on social media 24/7 promoting cycling.

Most of the elected "officials" are parish pump dumb politicians who know as much about traffic calming as quantum mechanics.

As ever this is all drawn up by the unelected city managers.

This is why Dublin needs a directly elected mayor so that someone is held directly responsible.

Again I'm all in favour of bus/cycle lanes but don't ask me to support slabs of paint on the ground with no proper public transport investment.

These lanes are designed for one reason only. . . If they don't want to use bicycles all the way from Wicklow . . .f**k em . . . We'll make their lives so uncomfortable to use a car that they'll have to use our crammed and underfunded public transport system.

Phil.x

Stephen15 wrote: »

Not one Dublin Bus route is being privatised its fake news. I assume you're talking about the routes being tendered out which is not 40% but rather 10% all of which don't even go into the cc so that point its pretty irrelevant. Anyway the NTA is planning to grow bus routes in Dublin over the next couple of years. Bus Connects is on its way. Already the 30 additional buses are being added to the fleet.

I reckon that the way people like yourself go on about how awful Dublins public transport are exaggerating. While its by no means perfect it has improved in recent years with the introduction of Leap cards, RTPI, newer buses being introduced and on bus info as well as Luas extensions and the big one which is Luas CC. I struggle to think of any major area in Dublin that dosen't have access to some sort of semi decent public transport service to the cc whether that be a frequent bus, a QBC, a railway line, the Dart, a Luas line and some cases two or more of these.

As for the direct rail link to the airport. I reckon that due to geography a direct rail link may end up taking longer than the Airlink or Aircoach that is currently. A train or a metro would likely make multiple stop en route while the bus gies through the Port Tunnel.

Cycling and using public transport is already subsidized through The Cycle to Work and The Taxsaver schemes.

I reccomend for future reference doing a little bit of research before making such generalisation posts.

I recommend a little research in the difference of subventions and tendering out.

papu

Phil.x wrote: »

Don't think so buddy. Do proper research

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971400713X

Can send you the article if you want to broaden you mind mate, I get access, I'm a researcher with peer reviewed publications.. what's your scientific background?

randylonghorn

Phil.x wrote: »

Don't think so buddy. Do proper research

papu wrote: »

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896971400713X

Can send you the article if you want to broaden you mind mate, I get access, I'm a researcher with peer reviewed publications.. what's your scientific background?

And can you please link to the scientific research you're basing your own opinion on, Phil?

Peter Flynt

Stephen15 wrote: »

Not one Dublin Bus route is being privatised its fake news. I assume you're talking about the routes being tendered out which is not 40% but rather 10% all of which don't even go into the cc so that point its pretty irrelevant. Anyway the NTA is planning to grow bus routes in Dublin over the next couple of years. Bus Connects is on its way. Already the 30 additional buses are being added to the fleet.

I reckon that the way people like yourself go on about how awful Dublins public transport are exaggerating. While its by no means perfect it has improved in recent years with the introduction of Leap cards, RTPI, newer buses being introduced and on bus info as well as Luas extensions and the big one which is Luas CC. I struggle to think of any major area in Dublin that dosen't have access to some sort of semi decent public transport service to the cc whether that be a frequent bus, a QBC, a railway line, the Dart, a Luas line and some cases two or more of these.

As for the direct rail link to the airport. I reckon that due to geography a direct rail link may end up taking longer than the Airlink or Aircoach that is currently. A train or a metro would likely make multiple stop en route while the bus gies through the Port Tunnel.

Cycling and using public transport is already subsidized through The Cycle to Work and The Taxsaver schemes.

I reccomend for future reference doing a little bit of research before making such generalisation posts.

Go to a place like Frankfurt - a city of 700,000 with a surburban area of around 4m. A place destroyed in the second world war.

Then cmpare its transport infrastructure to Dublin.

No comparison.

Peter Flynt

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Go to a place like Frankfurt - a city of 700,000 with a surburban area of around 4m. A place destroyed in the second world war.

Then cmpare its transport infrastructure to Dublin.

No comparison.

You literally said this

papu

Phil.x wrote: »

Very weak generalisation and not worth the kilobits it's written in.

You have no idea what you're talking about, this is from the methods section, it is extremely comprehensive. Maybe go to bed and stop embarrassing yourself

Peter Flynt

Deleted User wrote: »

You literally said this

Why?

Was I wrong to compare?

My favourite public transport route is the D rail

Peter Flynt

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Why?

Was I wrong to compare?

Yes

Yes you were.

Unless you think razing a city to the ground in order to eliminate pretty much every existing impediment to large scale infrastructural planning is a clever idea then it would seem a particularly inapt comparison.

Phil.x

randylonghorn wrote: »

And can you please link to the scientific research you're basing your own opinion on, Phil?

It's obvious.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/air-pollution-triggers-cyclists-heart-risks/

Peter Flynt

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes

Yes you were.

Unless you think razing a city to the ground in order to eliminate pretty much every existing impediment to large scale infrastructural planning is a clever idea then it would seem a particularly inapt comparison.

The old infrastructure of the city was still there.

An underground was added post WW2 (Ya Wha' says Paddy) and remarkably evrything just. . . works.

Meanwhile we're still using Butt Bridge, which can only take one train in either direction.

randylonghorn

Phil.x wrote: »

It's obvious.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/air-pollution-triggers-cyclists-heart-risks/

Except ... that doesn't contradict the article Papu quoted.

In fact ... did you actually read it?!

the article you linked wrote:

The study does not suggest that bikers would be better off driving, experts say. Rather, the findings intensify the scrutiny on cyclists' pollution exposure, and point to simple solutions for a cleaner ride, such as avoiding busy roads like 8th Avenue whenever possible.

...

The new study of Canadian cyclists does not mean that people should lock up their bikes and hop back into the driver's seat, said Brauer. Another study has shown that drivers have higher respiratory problems than cyclists because of their higher exposure to volatile organic chemicals in vehicle exhaust.

"In stop-and-go traffic, [drivers] have more exposure than a cyclist who stays 15 feet or more from the tailpipes," said Rebecca Serna, executive director of the Atlanta Bicycle Coalition, a cycling advocacy group.

The health benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks from air pollution and traffic collisions relative to car driving, according to one estimate by researchers in the Netherlands, where cycling is king. Taking cars off the road also helps reduce greenhouse gas emissions and traffic accidents.

"In general, you're better off cycling than not," Brauer said. "The physical activity benefits outweigh negative impacts. But you'd like there to be no impacts."

Stephen15

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Go to a place like Frankfurt - a city of 700,000 with a surburban area of around 4m. A place destroyed in the second world war.

Then cmpare its transport infrastructure to Dublin.

No comparison.

No comparision in both history, geography and size either.

Stephen15

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The old infrastructure of the city was still there.

An underground was added post WW2 (Ya Wha' says Paddy) and remarkably evrything just. . . works.

Meanwhile we're still using Butt Bridge, which can only take one train in either direction.

Since when did Butt Bridge take rail traffic.

Dublins public transport system is more comparable with a number of UK cities than with Frankfurt. I would say that Dublin has a better public transport than most UK cities no pacers or bus wars here but that is the least we expect from a capital city.

Phil.x

randylonghorn wrote: »

Except ... that doesn't contradict the article Papu quoted.

In fact ... did you actually read it?!

A 2010 study of cyclists in the Netherlands showed that hard-pedaling, deep-breathing cyclists on busy roads inhale more of this dirty air. In many cases, they also spend more time exposed to it compared to someone driving the same distance.

Peter Flynt

Stephen15 wrote: »

Since when did Butt Bridge take rail traffic.

Butt bridge only takes rail traffic.

papu

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Butt bridge only takes rail traffic.

The Butt Bridge is a road bridge in Dublin, Ireland which spans the River Liffey and joins Georges Quay to Beresford Place and the north quays at Liberty Hall.

You're confusing it with Loopline bridge.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

Nobody is forcing people out of their cars yet but that's the road we're headed down.

Another step towards people getting their daily nutrition in pill form and a daily uniform for everyone. When life gets to that stage then is it really worth living?

I think you're looking for the conspiracy theory forum

AndrewJRenko

Patww79 wrote: »

Hate seeing stuff like this happen. Forcing people onto buses.

Taking choices from supposedly free people is a dangerous path.

Muahahaha

Great point Jimmy. Would love to see them sort out the pinch point at McDonalds inn Phibsboro and be able to run a bus Lane right through the village. That would easily knock 10 minutes off the commute for thousands of passengers.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub

Patww79 wrote: »

What does that say, Ivory?

Yup to demonstrate your ivory tower that or it says irony :rolleyes:

randylonghorn

Phil.x wrote: »

A 2010 study of cyclists in the Netherlands showed that hard-pedaling, deep-breathing cyclists on busy roads inhale more of this dirty air. In many cases, they also spend more time exposed to it compared to someone driving the same distance.

Try reading the full article for the overall conclusion, Phil!

After all, it's the article you posted.

PaddyRussell

Spare a thought for those of us who have no choice but to travel the quays by car daily.
I live in North Dock and Work in Kildare.  I travel the South Quays between 645-715am and it moves fast, no problems so far.  Coming home is another story.  Could get to Heuston anytime between 1700 and 1800 so I just get in line and wait.
Yes I could paid the M50 toll and the tunnel toll but I have the M7 toll too.  All adds up.

John_Rambo

Phil.x wrote: »

Fumes, dirty bus and car diesel fumes, that's why I stopped cycling to work.

Phil.x wrote: »

A 2010 study of cyclists in the Netherlands showed that hard-pedaling, deep-breathing cyclists on busy roads inhale more of this dirty air.

Valid point here in fairness Phil.x, don't know why you're being ignored.

The buses aren't that bad (considering the amount of people on board), but hundreds of single occupant petrol/diesel cars in the city centre is fairly noxious.

A push for electric only buses and E-cars only in the city centre with a ban on petrol and diesel for mainstream drivers might encourage cleaner air fans like you to get back on the bike.

The whole stop-start nature of bus journeying would suit an E-bus.

Your points are food for thought regarding a complete city center ban on diesel and petrol. This would be good for our architectural heritage in the city too, less cleaning and maintenance. The results would also leave a lot of room for more cycle friendly/public transport infrastructure.

(this coming from a motorist and a cyclist, much like yourself) I think you could be on to something here Phil.

hmmm

PaddyRussell wrote: »

Spare a thought for those of us who have no choice but to travel the quays by car daily.

You have lots of choice - it's your choice to live in the city centre while working well outside it, and it's your choice to drive down the quays rather than taking the tunnel.

slavetothegrind

hmmm wrote: »

You have lots of choice - it's your choice to live in the city centre while working well outside it, and it's your choice to drive down the quays rather than taking the tunnel.

the sheer arrogance of that statement. You have no idea of that persons situation.

Everyone is a jockey with as long ladder....

aliveandkicking

PaddyRussell wrote: »

Spare a thought for those of us who have no choice but to travel the quays by car daily.
I live in North Dock and Work in Kildare.  I travel the South Quays between 645-715am and it moves fast, no problems so far.  Coming home is another story.  Could get to Heuston anytime between 1700 and 1800 so I just get in line and wait.
Yes I could paid the M50 toll and the tunnel toll but I have the M7 toll too.  All adds up.

North Quays or M50/Tunnel are not your only options. If you are coming in from the N7 why not turn right at Blackhorse and drive all along the canal and then Macken St and over Beckett Bridge? At the time you are coming in at most of the traffic on the canal is heading westbound so eastbound the traffic won't be as bad.

Another option if you are in as far as Heuston is Infirmary Rd - North Circular Road - Seville Palce.

If you insist on partially travelling on the north quays you could also turn left at Church St and then travel along Dorset St taking a right at NCR.

That's 3 different routes without tolls and there's also the tolled East Link route too. Honestly don't understand why you think you have no choice but to drive all the way along the north quays? Try the other routes and time the one that works best for you.

PuppyMcPupFace

Not everyone can use public transport though.

I do at the moment but I have arthritis and worry about managing the walk from the station when it worsens. Cycling would never be an option because of this.

I believe in saving the planet but we have to remember every commuter is a person with a story.

AndrewJRenko

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

Not everyone can use public transport though.

I do at the moment but I have arthritis and worry about managing the walk from the station when it worsens. Cycling would never be an option because of this.

eBikes are opening up cycling again for lots of people with disabilities and various medical conditions. It provides the extra power and stamina that some people need. It's not for everyone, but it is a solution for some.

hmmm

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

I believe in saving the planet but we have to remember every commuter is a person with a story.

I sympathise for your plight, but the point of this statement is what? Do you expect the traffic system for Dublin to be built to cope with every individual's circumstances and desires?

PuppyMcPupFace

Really ? That would be great, I would definitely cycle if there were electronic bikes to take some of the strain. Thanks!

Ben D Bus

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

Not everyone can use public transport though.

I do at the moment but I have arthritis and worry about managing the walk from the station when it worsens. Cycling would never be an option because of this.

I believe in saving the planet but we have to remember every commuter is a person with a story.

The general traffic lanes should be for those who genuinely need to use them, whether for business or mobility issues or whatever.

The problem isn't additional public transport lanes, it's people in general traffic who don't need to be there. Many make excuses as to why they need to drive, some don't even check if they have an alternative. But more PT lanes means more people can be transported. Simple as that. Freedom to drive remains but the greater good is given greater priority, but not forced on anyone.

Peregrine

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

Not everyone can use public transport though.

I do at the moment but I have arthritis and worry about managing the walk from the station when it worsens. Cycling would never be an option because of this.

I believe in saving the planet but we have to remember every commuter is a person with a story.

If general traffic lanes weren't full of people who refuse to look at different routes or people who think public transport is beneath them then people who genuinely have no other options wouldn't find it so difficult to get around the city.

Giving the necessary space to the majority of users who use it cleanly and efficiently is not the problem, the problem is the minority who don't need to be there but take up majority of the space.

donvito99

You'd think general-traffic lanes had been removed altogether....

magicbastarder

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

I do at the moment but I have arthritis and worry about managing the walk from the station when it worsens. Cycling would never be an option because of this.

obviously, this is not a comment on your particular situation, but i've met a few cyclists whose arthritis has been helped by cycling.

PuppyMcPupFace

Guys, appreciate the advice - walking is painful BUT once pain meds kick in at the start of the day walking does improve the feeling.

I would like to cycle but you hear some horror stories about how cyclists are treated and that's the good ones - me wobbling everywhere would terrify me!

But you never know the future. Thanks for the info.

AndrewJRenko

PuppyMcPupFace wrote: »

Guys, appreciate the advice - walking is painful BUT once pain meds kick in at the start of the day walking does improve the feeling.

I would like to cycle but you hear some horror stories about how cyclists are treated and that's the good ones - me wobbling everywhere would terrify me!

But you never know the future. Thanks for the info.

A cargo bike or other form of tricycle might be less wobbly - they're not cheap though.

Sierra Oscar

The Garda Traffic Corps were out ticketing drivers in the bus lane today, looks like they've really stepped up enforcement.

bobbyss

slavetothegrind wrote:

the sheer arrogance of that statement. You have no idea of that persons situation.

slavetothegrind wrote:

Everyone is a jockey with as long ladder....

100% agree.
Life isn't as simple as ' Oh, I've got a job in Stillorgan . Better up sticks and live in Stillorgan . I've got a six month contract in Dundalk. Better up sticks and live in Dundalk.'

That is not a reasonable position to hold. It's a simplistic, lazy catchcall.

amcalester

bobbyss wrote: »

100% agree.
Life isn't as simple as ' Oh, I've got a job in Stillorgan . Better up sticks and live in Stillorgan . I've got a six month contract in Dundalk. Better up sticks and live in Dundalk.'

That is not a reasonable position to hold. It's a simplistic, lazy catchcall.

Well don't take the job in Dundalk and complain about the traffic on the M1.

Works both ways.

07Lapierre

Now that there is only one car lane along the quays, I suspect that car traffic will actually move quicker due to less "lane swapping". Time will tell I suppose.

bobbyss

amcalester wrote:

Well don't take the job in Dundalk and complain about the traffic on the M1.

amcalester wrote:

Works both ways.

Again, all too simplistic way of looking at things I think. By that standard we should all stop complaining about traffic because it presents issues in getting to work.

amcalester

bobbyss wrote: »

Again, all too simplistic way of looking at things I think. By that standard we should all stop complaining about traffic because it presents issues in getting to work.

I agree, individuals should stop complaining about traffic unless they themselves are taking steps to reduce traffic volumes, whether that is by taking public transport, walking, cycling, moving to be closer to work, changing jobs etc. depends on the person, because otherwise these people are part of the problem not the solution.

BonnieSituation

Peter Flynt wrote: »

One last point: Public transport in Ireland is very expensive. The price of a Dublin Bus ticket from the suburbs into the city centre would far exceed the cost of petrol, tax, insurance etc. . for a similar car journey. Similar for trains.

2.60 on a leap card?

L1011

Peter Flynt wrote: »

One last point: Public transport in Ireland is very expensive. The price of a Dublin Bus ticket from the suburbs into the city centre would far exceed the cost of petrol, tax, insurance etc. . for a similar car journey. Similar for trains.

For a single occupant? Not a hope. 5.20 a day (max return leap fare) is going to be similar to the tax+insurance costs on their own, before fuel and depreciation are taken in to account.

For a car with multiple users you may, just about, be on to something. Its entirely reliant on free parking, though. Very few non-exec grade staff get free city centre parking.