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Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭brokenarms


    Just watching the right turn onto o Connell bridge. Lots of cars completely ignoring the new rule. Even blocking the the yellow box. Not a Garda in sight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    brokenarms wrote: »
    Just watching the right turn onto o Connell bridge. Lots of cars completely ignoring the new rule. Even blocking the the yellow box. Not a Garda in sight.

    Seen a garda on a push bike watching from the junction of O'Connell bridge but forgot to look at all the cars/vans also turning onto eden quay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    brokenarms wrote: »
    Just watching the right turn onto o Connell bridge. Lots of cars completely ignoring the new rule. Even blocking the the yellow box. Not a Garda in sight.
    It'll help make the argument for a ban on private cars entirely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,378 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Cars will be gone from the North Quays soon. This change has already been brilliant, and the LUAS starting across the bridge will be the final nail in their coffin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,737 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    I might give the 39a from clonsilla to city centre tomorrow a go, it's a dreadful service and journey so I wouldn't expect a double bus lane for the last couple of meters to improve it much.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    bk wrote: »
    First of all there are many buses and coaches operating 24/7 in the city. Aircoach is the most visible of these, but many others exist too, including Dublin Bus night link services.

    Aircoach on a one hour frequency is hardly many buses. Neither is the Nitelink running Fridays and Saturdays at long intervals. I am not familiar with all Aircoach routes but doubt it is more than 20 buses between midnight and 6am. The city is pretty dead between those hours, a dedicated bus lane is simply not needed and only serves to create problems for motorists where there need not be any. As I mentioned before I am all for quicker bus lanes/journeys etc but only so far as it does not go overboard. 24/7 bus lanes without a 24/7 proper service to the suburbs is overboard IMO.
    The second reason is consistency. You simply don't want people getting confused about the time of operation of a bus lane. Much easier on everyone if it is simply 24/7 and specially if their is physical infrastructure in place controlling it (traffic lights, bollards separating lanes, etc.).

    Thing is we have consistency right now- the vast majority of bus lanes are 7am-7pm. The outliers of consistency are the likes of the 24 hour bus lanes in Finglas and Blanch where there is no actual 24 hour bus service (and in the case of the lane outside Ikea no bus service at all, yet it is marked as a 24 hour bus lane)
    Thirdly, you simply don't want people speeding through the city center at any time of the day or night, it ends up endangering the lives of the pedestrians around and it causes a disturbance to those who live in the city. A single lane of traffic helps calm traffic

    Agreed on the speeding point but a 24 hour bus lane will not stop taxis speeding in the bus lane. They already do and will continue to do so more, especially if they know the lane is all for themselves past midnight hours
    BTW it is only a matter of time until we also get 24/7 city buses. It has been long rumoured.

    I would gladly settle for Dublin Buses running to 1am but even that seems a long way off right now given the stance of the unions. 24/7 Dublin Buses are even further away. No point at all creating 24/7 bus lanes until we actually have a 24/7 bus service. Doing so is only going to create a private lane for taxis. Sundays are the worst because the bus service is so poor, if cars couldnt use bus lanes on a Sunday you would actually see city centre traffic jams, the only thing that prevents it right now imo is that they are open to cars.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I'd imagine they are 24h so motorists will get the message not to drive in the bus lane at any time.

    So as said you feel it it is okay for a stack of cars to be in a queue but a sole taxi gets priority over them, at 3 or 4am? Hardly fair now is it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Aircoach on a one hour frequency is hardly many buses. Neither is the Nitelink running Fridays and Saturdays at long intervals. I am not familiar with all Aircoach routes but doubt it is more than 20 buses between midnight and 6am. The city is pretty dead between those hours, a dedicated bus lane is simply not needed and only serves to create problems for motorists where there need not be any. As I mentioned before I am all for quicker bus lanes/journeys etc but only so far as it does not go overboard. 24/7 bus lanes without a 24/7 proper service to the suburbs is overboard IMO.

    I can't believe you are having this argument if the city centre if there is so few traffic between those hours what difference does it make?

    Also there are a number of DB routes whose first journey of the day begins before 6am and who's last journey finishes after midnight.
    Thing is we have consistency right now- the vast majority of bus lanes are 7am-7pm. The outliers of consistency are the likes of the 24 hour bus lanes in Finglas and Blanch where there is no actual 24 hour bus service (and in the case of the lane outside Ikea no bus service at all, yet it is marked as a 24 hour bus lane)

    Ile agree with you there. Bus lanes with no buses are a case of poor planning there obivously was an intention to run a bus service there at some point mind you. Perhaps we'll buses use them in years to come.
    I would gladly settle for Dublin Buses running to 1am but even that seems a long way off right now given the stance of the unions. 24/7 Dublin Buses are even further away. No point at all creating 24/7 bus lanes until we actually have a 24/7 bus service. Doing so is only going to create a private lane for taxis. Sundays are the worst because the bus service is so poor, if cars couldnt use bus lanes on a Sunday you would actually see city centre traffic jams, the only thing that prevents it right now imo is that they are open to cars.

    BE have recently introduced 24h to parts of Meath with no objection by unions. Unions are not against extra recruitment meaning more subs or more overtime for exisiting drivers. If they were there would be no Nitelink.

    If there was a properly enforced blanket ban on cars in the cc there wouldn't be any potential Sunday traffic jams.
    So as said you feel it it is okay for a stack of cars to be in a queue but a sole taxi gets priority over them, at 3 or 4am? Hardly fair now is it?

    There wouldn't be a stack of cars at 3 or 4am as you said the city is pretty dead in during these so it wouldn't be much of an issue. Your just knitpicking at a very minor 'issue'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Cars will be gone from the North Quays soon. This change has already been brilliant, and the LUAS starting across the bridge will be the final nail in their coffin.

    I doubt that will be the case. If you remove cars completely from the quays it will just move the issue somewhere else, and maybe make it a lot worse. I said before that there is a group of people who will never give up using their car for any number of reasons. This traffic needs to be managed in such a way that it does not cause a mess somewhere else. Leave the one lane of traffic on the Quays for private cars and keep it out of the way of public transport, which in my opinion does not include taxi's, so the buses can move quickly. For it's first week this new layout has worked but it was done this time of year for a reason. A lot of people are still on holidays, the weather is not too bad, schools are not back and the Luas is not running yet. Let's see what this is like in the middle of January before declaring it a success. It has to improve things but don't forget that the bus will have to give way to the luas crossing the bridge every 90 seconds as well. We might just end up with a queue of buses at the bridge when it starts.

    I have seen a good few people making the right turn onto the bridge and I am only there for 5 minutes in the morning. There is never a guard there and there never will be. A camera needs to be put there that will catch every private car making the turn. It would not be hard to distinguish between cars that are coming from O'Connell street onto the bridge from ones making the illegal turn.

    I think there is going to be an accident at the new lights on the quays with a cyclist as well. From what I can see a lot of them are going through the red light lane for buses and this brings them into the line of private cars moving into the left lane. The bike lane is not big enough for them and should have been made bigger and some better protection for the bike lane in place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,129 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I run a shower repair service. As of this week we are no longer covering parts or the inner city. Just yesterday I turned down a job in Temple Bar. With traffic restrictions on the Quays, not being able to use coll green, difficulties get parking close to jobs it's just not worth it anymore.
    I believe people living in the city centre are going to have to pay more for tradesmen
    I don't believe the city fathers are seeing the big picture


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I run a shower repair service. As of this week we are no longer covering parts or the inner city. Just yesterday I turned down a job in Temple Bar. With traffic restrictions on the Quays, not being able to use coll green, difficulties get parking close to jobs it's just not worth it anymore.
    I believe people living in the city centre are going to have to pay more for tradesmen
    I don't believe the city fathers are seeing the big picture
    But sure why don't you do your call out on a push bike?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,836 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I run a shower repair service. As of this week we are no longer covering parts or the inner city. Just yesterday I turned down a job in Temple Bar. With traffic restrictions on the Quays, not being able to use coll green, difficulties get parking close to jobs it's just not worth it anymore.
    I believe people living in the city centre are going to have to pay more for tradesmen
    I don't believe the city fathers are seeing the big picture

    While I hear your pain - again I will pose the question - how do you think that the status quo can be maintained with the addition of trams up to every 3 minutes in each direction crossing each of O'Connell Bridge and Rosie Hackett Bridge and through College Green?

    It's just not physically possible any more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,129 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    While I hear your pain - again I will pose the question - how do you think that the status quo can be maintained with the addition of trams up to every 3 minutes in each direction crossing each of O'Connell Bridge and Rosie Hackett Bridge and through College Green?

    It's just not physically possible any more.

    What about commercial vehicles using the extra bus lane between 11 & 3pm. It's a simple idea and might work. Some traffic has to use the quays. There's no point telling a tradesman he has to start at 6am in an apartment & gone by 8am. By law we can't even turn on the drill till 8am.
    My main point is the people living right in the city (or their landlords) will be paying a lot more for tradesmen. The job in Temple Bar yesterday, I rang every plumber I knew & not one was interested in going in


  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Marlay


    Following on from the DCC tweet about bus journey times on the north quay reducing by 40% is there any indication of what the journey times for routes not using the quays have been like since the changes? Particularly anything around the Kevin St area. Given the time of year the journey times I've been hearing for that area (admittedly for cars) are not looking good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Got the 25B at 8.22 from Griffeen and I got off at Merrion Row at 9.10.

    It's frankly unbelievable Jeff.

    If I got the bus at 8.22 in June I would be looking at getting off the bus at the Four ?Courts around 9 and having to walk over to Pembroke St getting in to the office somewhere around 940.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I run a shower repair service. As of this week we are no longer covering parts or the inner city. Just yesterday I turned down a job in Temple Bar. With traffic restrictions on the Quays, not being able to use coll green, difficulties get parking close to jobs it's just not worth it anymore.
    I believe people living in the city centre are going to have to pay more for tradesmen
    I don't believe the city fathers are seeing the big picture


    I am sure there are tradesmen living in the city centre. They should see a big increase in business so??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭markpb


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Why turn it down though, you could have offered them a weekend call out or even a late evening? Explain that due to traffic restrictions we cant work in the city centre during peak hours.

    A handful of people are going to take the hump about this on principle. They will feel as if "their" road has been taken away from them and get annoyed even if it doesn't actually affect them much or if there are suitable alternatives for them. This will die down in a few weeks.

    Even with the reduction in private vehicle capacity along the quays, it'll still be far better than the severly congested cities around the world. The plumbers of those cities somehow manage to get to their customers and I'm sure, in due course, Dublin's fine plumbers will do the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    Dunno if it was a knock-on effect or completely unrelated but on my way home yesterday the traffic on High St/Bridge St/Fr. Matthew Bridge/Church Street was as bad as I've seen it, all the way up to Constitution Hill and into Phibsboro.

    Ditto for Clontarf/Fairview/East Link/East Wall/Ballybough/North Strand absolutely chokka out of the blue the last couple of mornings/evenings.

    I drove along the North Quays two days ago, the movement in the single car lane actually wasn't any slower than the quays usually were, but I made a legal left turn onto Jervis Street and had to transverse across the two bus lanes on the left to do it - this can only cause a severe bottleneck when the traffic gets heavier in the autumn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I doubt that will be the case. If you remove cars completely from the quays it will just move the issue somewhere else, and maybe make it a lot worse. I said before that there is a group of people who will never give up using their car for any number of reasons.
    If car drivers block the yellow boxes on O'Connell Street (which they will, and are), which in turn blocks the LUAS, cars will be banned. It's a very simple equation.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    If you remove cars completely from the quays it will just move the issue somewhere else, and maybe make it a lot worse.
    Isn't this a canard that's been thoroughly laid to rest at this stage? See here, for example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Ditto for Clontarf/Fairview/East Link/East Wall/Ballybough/North Strand absolutely chokka out of the blue the last couple of mornings/evenings.

    I drove along the North Quays two days ago, the movement in the single car lane actually wasn't any slower than the quays usually were, but I made a legal left turn onto Jervis Street and had to transverse across the two bus lanes on the left to do it - this can only cause a severe bottleneck when the traffic gets heavier in the autumn.

    There has always been an issue with that left turn to Jervis. My fear is that as long as it exists there is potential for cars turning left to cause havoc.

    Is it a "No left turn" between 7 and 10am per chance?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,836 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Ditto for Clontarf/Fairview/East Link/East Wall/Ballybough/North Strand absolutely chokka out of the blue the last couple of mornings/evenings.

    I drove along the North Quays two days ago, the movement in the single car lane actually wasn't any slower than the quays usually were, but I made a legal left turn onto Jervis Street and had to transverse across the two bus lanes on the left to do it - this can only cause a severe bottleneck when the traffic gets heavier in the autumn.

    To turn into Jervis St you do not cross the double bus lane.

    You cross over the single bus lane (which moves to the centre of the road) before Capel Street Bridge where the yellow box is located to the inside lane.

    Now I think that there should be a signalled bus gate at that point to avoid cars and buses getting into conflict - not putting one in was a serious mistake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,836 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There has always been an issue with that left turn to Jervis. My fear is that as long as it exists there is potential for cars turning left to cause havoc.

    Is it a "No left turn" between 7 and 10am per chance?

    As per my post above - cars heading for Jervis Street move across the bus lane at the yellow box before Capel Street Bridge (as per the road markings).

    No restrictions are in place in terms of when cars can make that turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,795 ✭✭✭sweetie


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    As per my post above - cars heading for Jervis Street move across the bus lane at the yellow box before Capel Street Bridge (as per the road markings).

    No restrictions are in place in terms of when cars can make that turn.

    Many a time I've been nearly knocked off my bike by a car at that turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,213 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I run a shower repair service. As of this week we are no longer covering parts or the inner city. Just yesterday I turned down a job in Temple Bar. With traffic restrictions on the Quays, not being able to use coll green, difficulties get parking close to jobs it's just not worth it anymore.
    I believe people living in the city centre are going to have to pay more for tradesmen
    I don't believe the city fathers are seeing the big picture

    Wouldn't it be great if tradesmen in general built their parking requirements into their planning for the job, instead of just parking on the nearest path or bike lane or double-yellow, knowing well that they will probably get away with it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,129 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Deedsie wrote:
    Why turn it down though, you could have offered them a weekend call out or even a late evening? Explain that due to traffic restrictions we cant work in the city centre during peak hours.


    We turn it down because come September it will take up the time of two call outs. We are booked up 6 days per week so we will loose a call out fee if we take these jobs. It's no skin off my nose as I wear are all busy but we have a thread on the effects of the double bus lanes so I thought I'd throw it in the conversion.
    The restrictions in the city will have good & negative effects. This is one of the negative effects


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    We turn it down because come September it will take up the time of two call outs. We are booked up 6 days per week so we will loose a call out fee if we take these jobs. It's no skin off my nose as I wear are all busy but we have a thread on the effects of the double bus lanes so I thought I'd throw it in the conversion.
    The restrictions in the city will have good & negative effects. This is one of the negative effects

    Like any change, adjustments will be needed and their will be some people who lose out and others who will gain.

    I assume you are based outside the city and come into the city to do the odd job?

    I'd imagine that city based trades people will just gain more business if out of town trades people like you turn down jobs.

    Other cities in Europe have far more restrictive traffic arrangements, yet they all still manage to get trade work done.

    PS glad to hear you are very busy anyway and that it won't over-ally effect your business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,129 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wouldn't it be great if tradesmen in general built their parking requirements into their planning for the job, instead of just parking on the nearest path or bike lane or double-yellow, knowing well that they will probably get away with it?


    You are mixing up delivery guys and tradesmen. Tradesmen have 1000s of euro worth of tools. Generally tradesmen won't abandone their vans like delivery drivers. Also getting clamped costs us too much money. It's costs whatever the clamp fee is, I've never been clamped so don't know what the fee is, & it also cost us at least one call out due to time lost.
    Paying for parking isn't an issue. The issue is trying to get parking close to the job. Tools are heavy and we want to stay close to our tools. There are a handful of loading bays in the city. These are exclusively for commercial vehicles but unfortunately private vehicles take these spaces from us


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭brokenarms


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You are mixing up delivery guys and tradesmen. Tradesmen have 1000s of euro worth of tools. Generally tradesmen won't abandone their vans like delivery drivers. Also getting clamped costs us too much money. It's costs whatever the clamp fee is, I've never been clamped so don't know what the fee is, & it also cost us at least one call out due to time lost.
    Paying for parking isn't an issue. The issue is trying to get parking close to the job. Tools are heavy and we want to stay close to our tools. There are a handful of loading bays in the city. These are exclusively for commercial vehicles but unfortunately private vehicles take these spaces from us

    Just park in the loading bay and leave a few planks of wood up against the van.

    Friend does it frequently. Clampers never bothered him. As he needs to come in and out frequently to get bits and bobs, he just moves the planks around each time.
    Or you could leave it empty for a private car to park in all day with their hazards on and pay park.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You are mixing up delivery guys and tradesmen. Tradesmen have 1000s of euro worth of tools. Generally tradesmen won't abandone their vans like delivery drivers. Also getting clamped costs us too much money. It's costs whatever the clamp fee is, I've never been clamped so don't know what the fee is, & it also cost us at least one call out due to time lost.
    Paying for parking isn't an issue. The issue is trying to get parking close to the job. Tools are heavy and we want to stay close to our tools. There are a handful of loading bays in the city. These are exclusively for commercial vehicles but unfortunately private vehicles take these spaces from us

    If the issue is getting parking close to the job, then how do the recent changes make things worse? I don't think there's been any changes to loading bays, but I'm open to correction on that.

    And if there haven't been changes, the new layout has the potential to make things better, not worse. If fewer private motorists are using the quays, then presumably the odds of loading bays being used by private motorists also decreases.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    BeerNut wrote: »
    Isn't this a canard that's been thoroughly laid to rest at this stage? See here, for example.

    Not sure if I would put much faith on a report that was written in 2002 by a cycling advocacy group referencing data that's almost 17 years old from London. Traffic there is worse than ever and that's with a congestion charge, £11.50, lots of cycle lanes and a very extensive and relatively cheap to use underground system that links in with other transport services.

    I work in the city center by the quays and get the bus every day, but I am lucky that I can do that but Not everyone can. I know people who could do the same easily but choose to drive and nothing will convince them to use any other way to get in. Banning things is not the answer. That just gives people a reason to go on the march. Give cars a lower priority to public transport and make using a car a much less desirable way to get into the city. That way the bus and bikes can move quickly and safely and private car drivers can suffer in silence.


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