Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

jon1981

I cycle the quays daily, I don't have a problem with taxis at all, just be mindful that they need to pull in and out.

The tour buses as someone mentioned are the worst, they hog the curb and park up along a good section of Batchelors walk.

Seaswimmer

What are the hours of the new bus lanes. 7 to 7 Monday to Saturday???

Spanish Eyes

Tour buses and private bus operators should have their stops on Eden Quay. But maybe there is a reason this is not happening.

Avada

magicbastarder wrote: »

is there any legal or by law construct to make one of the two bus lanes strictly for buses and bikes only? i.e. to deny access to taxis.

Yes, thats the case with the bus lane on Stephens Green

wait4me

daheff wrote: »

Concerned citizen. You dont need to a car user to understand the knock on implications -or be concerned about it.

One of those implications is when there are events on in Dublin city (either in the evenings or weekends) such as concerts in the 3Arena or indeed games or concerts in Croke Park or the Aviva. Anybody coming from the south and west of Dublin or indeed Ireland (NOT commuters) has no real or viable option other than driving. Car traffic at those times (not commuting times!) will have to funnel into one lane on the North Quays to get where they need to get

wait4me

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Tour buses and private bus operators should have their stops on Eden Quay. But maybe there is a reason this is not happening.

Tour buses picking up at hotels

LollipopJimmy

thomasj wrote: »

You've got to be kidding me!

Manys a time I've been on a bus and it's taken 5 or so minutes to get from the lights to the bus stop, it's ridicilous how bad that stretch gets in the morning and evening peak.

I'm not disputing the fact that the Quay is a mess. But IMO widening the bus lane is like dropping a nuclear warhead on your back garden to take care of an ant's nest.
Dealing with the illegal parking and kamikaze taxis would have been a much cheaper solution.

magicbastarder

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

daheff

magicbastarder wrote: »

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

But only if there is a corresponding increase in bus services. You now have capacity for 8K+600+600 vs 8K+8k+600 (7200 increase). And only on this spot of the commute.

So to my mind all that has happened is you have gone from 9200 to 8600 as there (more than likely) wont be increased buses to take up the additional 7200 potential capacity. But car usage wont change, and are now taking up less space with same number of cars.


If DB were to increase services to make better use of the additional capacity on the quays is there sufficient space on other parts of the routes to use this increase capacity on the quays (a small part of the journey-distance wise at least, but probably not time wise)?

wait4me

daheff wrote: »

(a small part of the journey-distance wise at least, )?

700 - 750 metres (approximately) according to the old reliable, google maps.

AndrewJRenko

wait4me wrote: »

One of those implications is when there are events on in Dublin city (either in the evenings or weekends) such as concerts in the 3Arena or indeed games or concerts in Croke Park or the Aviva. Anybody coming from the south and west of Dublin or indeed Ireland (NOT commuters) has no real or viable option other than driving. Car traffic at those times (not commuting times!) will have to funnel into one lane on the North Quays to get where they need to get

Unless they chose to use the Luas Red Line to the Point, with extensive park and ride options on both Red and Green line incoming, or the train/Dart to Landsdowne, or the train to Drumcondra or bus to Croker either on Drumcondra Road or Amiens St - if they can't or won't use any of those options then they definitely have no viable option other than driving.

Podge_irl

daheff wrote: »

No, not everybody who drives a car needs to. But I would hazard a guess that a lot do. Probably due to inadequate or unsuitable (or none at all) public transport from their home/ back home.

I would hazard a guess in the complete opposite direction.

Nonetheless, buses not getting caught up on the quays will contribute greatly to a more efficient public transport set-up. You can't wait until the public transport is better to bring in these changes because they are necessary to make the public transport better. A bus system that actually runs on time would increase its attractiveness as an option.

markpb

daheff wrote: »

So to my mind all that has happened is you have gone from 9200 to 8600 as there (more than likely) wont be increased buses to take up the additional 7200 potential capacity. But car usage wont change, and are now taking up less space with same number of cars.

International experience has shown that removing car capacity from roads does make the traffic go away. Some people will take alternative routes, others will take alternative modes and others will stop traveling.

Improving bus lane reliability will make the bus network more attractive because journeys will be faster, not just for Dublin Bus but also for the large numbers of intercity operators using that route.

You're also making the incorrect assumption that a road should be at full capacity all the time. Roads perform better for everyone when they're between 50% and 60% full. DB don't need to provide double the capacity in order for the extra bus lane to be worthwhile.

LollipopJimmy

magicbastarder wrote: »

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

It's also made it far more dangerous to cycle given the behavior of taxis and buses that I have witnessed in the last few days.

Pretty much every one of my cycles features a stop at the Rolling Donut :pac:

hmmm

My experience is that the Pearse street double bus line has been fantastic for buses. The biggest problem is it clogged up at times with taxis.

It's plainly obvious that with the LUAS coming across the bridge, something had to give - and in a choice between cars versus bus, the loser would be car traffic.

The same as every major city in the world, if you are visiting the city centre for a trip you will have to spend 5 minutes on the Internet researching public transport options or deal with bad traffic.

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

There is still a lane for normal traffic.

Your issue should be with people unnecessarily driving into the city centre.

jon1981

Deleted User wrote: »

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

Been trying to get hold of our plumber for 3 weeks now ... never known him to be in a hurry :pac::pac::pac:

LXFlyer

The point of the double bus lane is that there is going to be a vast increase in the number of buses using both Quays due to the need to divert routes from College Green.

The double bus lane facilitates buses overtaking other buses that are stopped at bus stops - something that has been ignored heretofore in road design.

It is also a recognition that Bachelor's Walk suffers the biggest delays of any location on the DB network and that action was needed to deal with that.

The bottom line is that the introduction of the trams through the city centre changes the whole dynamic of the traffic and that public transport priority has to come over facilitating private cars (especially those using the city centre as a through route).

Birdie Num Num

Peregrine wrote: »

It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.


It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

I wouldn't be so sure if that. I sat on a bus that took almost half an hour to get from one end of O'Connell Street to the other. It was a regular mid week morning and there was only buses and taxis using the street. The sooner we have a more expansive and efficient rail and light rail system the better.

dunleakelleher

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

ye still allow private cars in the city centre, wow how very retro.
but I suppose fits in with the hipster's fad of 2014, that's cute.

cython

magicbastarder wrote: »

is there any legal or by law construct to make one of the two bus lanes strictly for buses and bikes only? i.e. to deny access to taxis.

Avada wrote: »

Yes, thats the case with the bus lane on Stephens Green

While that is indeed the case on SSG, unfortunately there is no legal construct to make the lane in question here bus/bicycle only. The reason this is managed on SSG is that it is a contra-flow bus lane, and taxis are not permitted in contra-flow bus lanes. By contrast both of these lanes are with-flow, so both are accessible to taxis, and this would require a change to the road traffic legislation since there is no real way to make either contra-flow without somehow introducing westbound traffic on the same stretch of road.

LXFlyer

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure if that. I sat on a bus that took almost half an hour to get from one end of O'Connell Street to the other. It was a regular mid week morning and there was only buses and taxis using the street. The sooner we have a more expansive and efficient rail and light rail system the better.

And when was this?

The city centre has been a massive construction site where journey times have been completely unpredictable.

strandroad

LXFlyer wrote: »

And when was this?

The city centre has been a massive construction site where journey times have been completely unpredictable.

I was on the bus in the city centre recently when the unloading/loading of passengers alone took the duration of two songs on my player. I'm well conditioned not to expect efficiency from DB but it still surprised me when the song changed twice. That's 6-8 minutes for a single stop.

Birdie Num Num

LXFlyer wrote: »

And when was this?

The city centre has been a massive construction site where journey times have been completely unpredictable.

Sometime between 2005 and 2007. Had to travel cross city, North to Donnybrook and used all forms of transport, car, bus and train. The bus was always an issue on O'Connell St. and throwing in an extra 15 - 30 minute to travel half a kilometre of an already long journey was a nightmare. As soon as it got to the Parnell monument it got snarled up in taxis and buses pulling in and out or parked up.

trellheim

It is worth noting that up till very recently there would have been NO private traffic allowed on Bachelors walk when these changes were to be introduced, private traffic would have been diverted essentially from Jervis St backwards.

Only some car park operators got it changed to allow a forward lane to Eden quay.

I might also add that

1) There will be NO RIGHT TURN to O'Connell Bridge (for private traffic ) when this kicks in

2) It is highly likely when the trams kick in that the timings just don't work , and since they have chosen to use new, longer trams that won't fit on the bridges they have no options with the planned setup except to remove that Eden-quay bound lane, as that is probably the only option they have to avoid destroying timetables ( the other is to shorten the trams back to the standard length so that they fit on the bridge for a light sequence ) .


As pointed out above this will become very clear in the next months when the trams testing commences

Riskymove

trellheim wrote: »

the other is to shorten the trams back to the standard length so that they fit on the bridge for a light sequence .

why cant they stop the tram at Westmoreland street rather than on the bridge?

Riskymove

trellheim wrote: »

1) There will be NO RIGHT TURN to O'Connell Bridge (for private traffic ) when this kicks in

2) It is highly likely when the trams kick in that the timings just don't work , and since they have chosen to use new, longer trams that won't fit on the bridges they have no options with the planned setup except to remove that Eden-quay bound lane,

they cannot end the turn or direct lanes for buses without causing complete mayhem to public transport so I doubt they will have to close it for traffic

with the rmeoval of the left turn a significant (imo majority) amount of the traffic will be removed from bachelor quay anyway

LXFlyer

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Sometime between 2005 and 2007. Had to travel cross city, North to Donnybrook and used all forms of transport, car, bus and train. The bus was always an issue on O'Connell St. and throwing in an extra 15 - 30 minute to travel half a kilometre of an already long journey was a nightmare. As soon as it got to the Parnell monument it got snarled up in taxis and buses pulling in and out or parked up.

That sounds like it was before the introduction of the College Green bus gate.

It dramatically changed the flow of traffic along O'Connell Street at peak times and more specifically bus speeds through the city centre.

LXFlyer

Riskymove wrote: »

why cant they stop the tram at Westmoreland street rather than on the bridge?

Trams need a clear run from Westmoreland St to the OCS stop - before lights can change again. There will be a tram every 3 minutes in each direction at peak times.