Where to start?

Shefwedfan

Ok, my wife has decided we should invest in something and I have no idea where to start. She is impressed with a motor home but I talked to friend and he said I should go with caravan

So looking for recommendation. Current family size is 2 parents and 3 kids, age range from 4 down. Long term we might have 4 kids but at the moment 3 is loads We love to cycle as well. With 3 kids the ability to fly is going to be limited so this will be bought for holidays.

Probably a lot of mini trips in Ireland plus at least 1 major per year to UK/France.

So where do I start? Budget is at 10k at the moment simply because I have no idea what budget I should have. Do I look at motor home or is Caravan a better choice?

Thanks for advice

Alkers

You could rent each for a comparison before deciding?

I'm a fan of small motorhomes for the ease of moving around while still being comfortable but with your family size you're going to want a decent size van.

When you start looking at larger vans, my personal preference is for a caravan instead as you can setup a very comfortable camp and then still have your tow vehicle to get around. With the large vans some people even tow a car behind them, at which point the caravan seems a no brainer.

Maybe a compromise of a van sized camper and a caravan?!

kadman

Dont forget to check your license before buying any big camper.

You dont want to be stuck with a camper, you cant legally drive.

Shefwedfan

kadman wrote: »

Dont forget to check your license before buying any big camper.

You dont want to be stuck with a camper, you cant legally drive.

Excellent point. What do I need on my license to drive one? I have AM/B/W on my current which looks to be no good.

Is it D1? Do I need to do test in camper van? I guess I need the same for caravan? BE?

They are codes on my licenses, I have new license card thing

Alkers

B is fine up to a vgw of 3,500kg - doesn't make a difference if it's a car, van or camper.
For the caravan, the combined max allowable weight of the tow vehicle and caravan can't exceed 3,500kg on the b license. If you need bigger you need the be license

Shefwedfan

Simona1986 wrote: »

B is fine up to a vgw of 3,500kg - doesn't make a difference if it's a car, van or camper.
For the caravan, the combined max allowable weight of the tow vehicle and caravan can't exceed 3,500kg on the b license. If you need bigger you need the be license

Thanks, I probably need to look into that and just get it anyway....well that is if I buy one

Pending

I had the same dilemma 3 years ago. I ended up buying a cheap van already converted "just for the summer" to see how we liked the lifestyle. We were hooked immediately and said van has been over as far as Venice, and down to Spain. 3 of us (and a large dog) did 2 months in Europe in it 2 summers ago, and I've also used it over winter in the alps for skiing trips! And used it to move house twice.

It was the best thing we ever got and I'm sadly looking for a new home for it now 3 years later.

SeamusG97

It's very difficult to give helpful advice about whether a caravan or motorhome is best as it is an individual preference in each case.
It really depends on what you like to do, whether you prefer the comfort of a caravan/campsite or the relative freedom of a van. You will get people advising you either way but only you will know what's best for you in the end.
We have friends with a Caravan and they love to set up camp with full awning somewhere nice and travel around the local area by car and bike.
We have always been hit and run who spend a night here and there and move on as the mood takes us.
With small kids you might prefer campsites (Caravan) or if they don't mind travelling as ours did then the open road (Motorhome).

For abroad either is good. The south of France is typically full of Dutch caravans at this time or year.

The advice to rent or try out each given by Simona1986 is good if you can afford to do so.

Regarding cost you would get a decent caravan for €10k but you would need to be spending double that to get a reasonable van.

Shefwedfan

SeamusG97 wrote: »

It's very difficult to give helpful advice about whether a caravan or motorhome is best as it is an individual preference in each case.
It really depends on what you like to do, whether you prefer the comfort of a caravan/campsite or the relative freedom of a van. You will get people advising you either way but only you will know what's best for you in the end.
We have friends with a Caravan and they love to set up camp with full awning somewhere nice and travel around the local area by car and bike.
We have always been hit and run who spend a night here and there and move on as the mood takes us.
With small kids you might prefer campsites (Caravan) or if they don't mind travelling as ours did then the open road (Motorhome).

For abroad either is good. The south of France is typically full of Dutch caravans at this time or year.

The advice to rent or try out each given by Simona1986 is good if you can afford to do so.

Regarding cost you would get a decent caravan for €10k but you would need to be spending double that to get a reasonable van.

Thank you, after discussing I think the motor home is the option we should look at. We love to just travel around....

Any tips on what to look at? what is good/bad? We need to look at something big enough for 6 people....2 adults & 4 kids

650Ginge

Ok. I have had both Motorhome and caravan.

We had great times all over Europe, UK and Ireland.

I think it is very important that a new buyer understands just how expensive it is to own a motorhome, even a cheaper one.

I'll give you a run down on the costs we had and you decide....

First it's important to figure out how many nights on average you will spend in the van because anything else you do for holidays will likely be a nightly rate. Say 3 weeks in Europe 3 weekends in ireland 2 weekends in the UK. Total 40 nights. You might do more, you might do less come up with your own number here if you wish.

Remember will need a car too, so the standing costs on that are going to be there anyway.

We bought in germany for €18500. That was 2007. Vrt was €3700. So €22000.

We owned it for 8.5 years and covered 123000kms, @ 12.1ltrs per 100kms. We paid between €1.72 and €1.09 per litre of diesel in that time. Total fuel cost €20661.

We had repairs and servicing/tyres/wear and tear of approx €1000 per year. I did all the work myself so you can probably double that to €17,000.

Ferries charge a bit more for motorhome than cars. We always used tesco vouchers and went off peak season. But a motorhome to France with likely two cabins in your case might be 700-1000+. Lets take €700.

Two trips to uk will be €400 each.

Now let's sat you manage to average camping per night to €20 a night, no chance in the uk or here on campsites. But lets assume you get a few free night on Aires or stellplatz. For 40 nights it's €800.

We sold our van 8.5 years later for 10k...I think we let it go to cheap so lets say 12k...

Ok

Depreciation €10500
Fuel €20661
Maintenance €17000
Ferries €1500
Insurances €1700
Camping fees €6400
Total €57761

Or over 8 years €180 a night at 40 nights per year

Or over 8 years €240 a night at 30 nights a years.

A lot more if you borrow the money.

Hell of a lot more if you understand the concept of 'future money'.

Don't listen to anyone that says they get 30mpg from a motorhome big enough for 5. They can never backed it up with evidence. Newer vans might be better but any over 80kph kills fuels economy.

You will use it less nights after the new fangledness wears off....

Shefwedfan

Excellent post 650Ginge....

I am just wondering if using it on multiple weekends for trips in Ireland would skew the numbers?

What types/models should I look out for?

650Ginge

I agree, we had the best holidays in the van. Somethings you just can't put a price on. First night we got it we stayed in a carpark in a town called Lich....next night in a parking spot on in a small village on the Rhine. We spent a night in the middle of Derry too, on the carpark beside the Guildhall that is now the bus station, slept in, charges us to get out of the carpark, I think is was 60p.

We spent 100's of nights free, a friends wedding in Cabra Castle, we stayed in the carpark, relations parties in middle of nowhere Galway, we had home with us. A 3 night stint at a carpark in Verbania. Week on a stellplatz in Kappelrodeck, Black Forest. Various GOT locations in NI. It is a long list....

Not to mention being able to stand up to get changed after mountain biking and having a hot shower right there.

Ah here stop, you are going to make me want another one. Well I am going to get another one just had tried to put it off for another 2 years.

SeamusG97

650Ginge wrote: »

I agree, we had the best holidays in the van. Somethings you just can't put a price on. First night we got it we stayed in a carpark in a town called Lich....next night in a parking spot on in a small village on the Rhine. We spent a night in the middle of Derry too, on the carpark beside the Guildhall that is now the bus station, slept in, charges us to get out of the carpark, I think is was 60p.

We spent 100's of nights free, a friends wedding in Cabra Castle, we stayed in the carpark, relations parties in middle of nowhere Galway, we had home with us. A 3 night stint at a carpark in Verbania. Week on a stellplatz in Kappelrodeck, Black Forest. Various GOT locations in NI. It is a long list....

Not to mention being able to stand up to get changed after mountain biking and having a hot shower right there.

Ah here stop, you are going to make me want another one. Well I am going to get another one just had tried to put it off for another 2 years.

There's a van for sale here on another thread...:D.

Moomat

650Ginge wrote: »

Ok. I have had both Motorhome and caravan.

We had great times all over Europe, UK and Ireland.

I think it is very important that a new buyer understands just how expensive it is to own a motorhome, even a cheaper one.

I'll give you a run down on the costs we had and you decide....

First it's important to figure out how many nights on average you will spend in the van because anything else you do for holidays will likely be a nightly rate. Say 3 weeks in Europe 3 weekends in ireland 2 weekends in the UK. Total 40 nights. You might do more, you might do less come up with your own number here if you wish.

Remember will need a car too, so the standing costs on that are going to be there anyway.

We bought in germany for €18500. That was 2007. Vrt was €3700. So €22000.

We owned it for 8.5 years and covered 123000kms, @ 12.1ltrs per 100kms. We paid between €1.72 and €1.09 per litre of diesel in that time. Total fuel cost €20661.

We had repairs and servicing/tyres/wear and tear of approx €1000 per year. I did all the work myself so you can probably double that to €17,000.

Ferries charge a bit more for motorhome than cars. We always used tesco vouchers and went off peak season. But a motorhome to France with likely two cabins in your case might be 700-1000+. Lets take €700.

Two trips to uk will be €400 each.

Now let's sat you manage to average camping per night to €20 a night, no chance in the uk or here on campsites. But lets assume you get a few free night on Aires or stellplatz. For 40 nights it's €800.

We sold our van 8.5 years later for 10k...I think we let it go to cheap so lets say 12k...

Ok

Depreciation €10500
Fuel €20661
Maintenance €17000
Ferries €1500
Insurances €1700
Camping fees €6400
Total €57761

Or over 8 years €180 a night at 40 nights per year

Or over 8 years €240 a night at 30 nights a years.

A lot more if you borrow the money.

Hell of a lot more if you understand the concept of 'future money'.

Don't listen to anyone that says they get 30mpg from a motorhome big enough for 5. They can never backed it up with evidence. Newer vans might be better but any over 80kph kills fuels economy.

You will use it less nights after the new fangledness wears off....

Pets, motorhomes and children - for your own peace of mind, never ever work out how much they cost!

SeamusG97

SeamusG97 wrote: »

There's a van for sale here on another thread...:D.

..moved to for sale thread.
Had to put the mod hat on.

I've spent €40 on campsites all the time I've had my motor. Of course my electrical system has run a coupla €k now..then again that's an asset not a memory.
Can't understand the point of a tethered free to roam installation.

SeamusG97

650Ginge wrote: »

Ok. I have had both Motorhome and caravan.

We had great times all over Europe, UK and Ireland.

I think it is very important that a new buyer understands just how expensive it is to own a motorhome, even a cheaper one.

I'll give you a run down on the costs we had and you decide....

First it's important to figure out how many nights on average you will spend in the van because anything else you do for holidays will likely be a nightly rate. Say 3 weeks in Europe 3 weekends in ireland 2 weekends in the UK. Total 40 nights. You might do more, you might do less come up with your own number here if you wish.

Remember will need a car too, so the standing costs on that are going to be there anyway.

We bought in germany for €18500. That was 2007. Vrt was €3700. So €22000.

We owned it for 8.5 years and covered 123000kms, @ 12.1ltrs per 100kms. We paid between €1.72 and €1.09 per litre of diesel in that time. Total fuel cost €20661.

We had repairs and servicing/tyres/wear and tear of approx €1000 per year. I did all the work myself so you can probably double that to €17,000.

Ferries charge a bit more for motorhome than cars. We always used tesco vouchers and went off peak season. But a motorhome to France with likely two cabins in your case might be 700-1000+. Lets take €700.

Two trips to uk will be €400 each.

Now let's sat you manage to average camping per night to €20 a night, no chance in the uk or here on campsites. But lets assume you get a few free night on Aires or stellplatz. For 40 nights it's €800.

We sold our van 8.5 years later for 10k...I think we let it go to cheap so lets say 12k...

Ok

Depreciation €10500
Fuel €20661
Maintenance €17000
Ferries €1500
Insurances €1700
Camping fees €6400
Total €57761

Or over 8 years €180 a night at 40 nights per year

Or over 8 years €240 a night at 30 nights a years.

A lot more if you borrow the money.

Hell of a lot more if you understand the concept of 'future money'.

Don't listen to anyone that says they get 30mpg from a motorhome big enough for 5. They can never backed it up with evidence. Newer vans might be better but any over 80kph kills fuels economy.

You will use it less nights after the new fangledness wears off....

That is a fairly accurate estimate of the cost of owning a motorhome. I ran the same figures for our own van ( new in 2009 and depreciated by 30k in the meantime, 60000km on the clock most of those in Europe) based on five to six weeks abroad per year using Aires and with similar maintenance, ferry and fuel costs and it comes to €94 per night. Not counting the trips away at home which tend to be the fuel only as I have an aversion to paying campsites for what is already in the van. So it's not cheap.

On the plus side, there is no value I could put on taking my children to see otherwise difficult to get to places like Oradour sur Glane or Verdun in France or driving over the Pyrenees or the Alps or cycling around the Italian lakes or swimming in the Rhone or walking in the foothills of Mont Blanc or hiking in the woods in the Black Forest. We're just back from walking part of the Camino de Santiago de Compostella in northern Spain based from our van.
Next weekend we're off to Clare to do some walking around Fanore with the dogs minus the kids.
I guess you could do most of these things in either a motorhome or caravan but it isn't always about money. 650Ginge makes a good point. - Whatever you choose, you need to make good use of it to get value for your outlay.

Edit: Here's the post that should have been between #11 and #12 above. I had deleted it as on reading back it sounded a bit Hyacinth Bucket but #12 makes more sense if it is there. Seems I've hanged someone in the meantime with the reference to the for sale thing - oops :o:o

SeamusG97

SeamusG97 wrote: »

Seems I've hanged someone in the meantime with the reference to the for sale thing - oops :o:o

Not at all, I moved them before I saw your post Seamus or more specifically removed them from main and left them in for sale.
We're privileged enough to have a for sale thread, it's not common or condoned on boards in general. My spam sense was tingling.

spaceHopper

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

..moved to for sale thread.
Had to put the mod hat on.

I've spent €40 on campsites all the time I've had my motor. Of course my electrical system has run a coupla €k now..then again that's an asset not a memory.
Can't understand the point of a tethered free to roam installation.

Yea but you enjoy building it and are mad in the head too

I've had shed load of fun on mine. I mostly wild camp. I reckon it about a grand a year but the freedom is priceless. If you two a caravan you will eat diesel too and put extra wear on the car too.

With all the AIRS in France I'd go Motor home

Heavens to Betsy Space I've no idea where you got that impression from.





Yeah I reckon ~€2k a year (insurance, tax, bangernomics (excluding ferries, fuel, diesel deappreciation etc..)) but I haven't paid a cent of rent in the last 6 years.

There's nothing stealth about a caravan.

Benbecul97

OP: After your initial outlay on a motorhome, your key annual costs are tax €102, insurance €340, maintenance €500 (this is a generous amount). Some of the figures mentioned above are off the charts!

Buy it, use it (including day trips to beach/park etc - you don't have to stay overnight to include it under usage), look after it, don't over analyse it, if its's not working out sell it on, you won't lose too much on it. Enjoy it!

spaceHopper

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Heavens to Betsy Space I've no idea where you got that impression from.

If you were parked next to a burning building, would you move the van before or after you called the fire brigade?

Benbecul97

Benbecul97 wrote: »

maintenance €500 (this is a generous amount). Some of the figures mentioned above are off the charts!

Well few points on that; mine's a daily and a live aboard so higher than yer average wear and tear. I also spent naff all on it (€1.5k) to begin with. So my upkeep is above average and I do my own servicing so I don't cut corners or use after-market mission critical parts.
The thing about bangernomics is a good campervan is gonna cost you at least €6k, If you don't want to pay that upfront expect to pay it later in replaceable parts. Mine's a 23 year old and worth the bother because it's built like a brick dunny, has no stoopid computer with stoopid features like limp home mode or annoying beeping wossits, EGR valves to clog etc..
I've never once been stuck on the side of the road with a problem I couldn't fix with basic tools.

Last year I replaced the clutch kit, fuel sender unit, fuel gauge, disc brakes, pads and lines, number plate lights, hab. lighting amongst other rolling repairs.

I reckon I've renewed 60% of the running gear since I've had her. Mine's getting better with age.

spaceHopper wrote: »

If you were parked next to a burning building, would you move the van before or after you called the fire brigade?

Before if not at the same time! What's yer point?

Although being the accommodating sortov chap I am I'd assess if the building was either occupied or worth more than a fire brigade call-out charge before calling them...cos sometimes folks round my parts don't thank you for so called favours like that.

Wally Runs

Hi OP, lots of good advice here and as pointed out, some may be (understandably) tempered by one's one choices. We have just joined the caravan section after a similar process. We have three boys 12,10 & 7, so older than yours. However, like you we were very unsure what to buy and how much to spend. We bought the books (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Make-Most-Caravan/dp/1473600006/ref=dp_ob_image_bk) and looked at the websites and decided to dip our toes in the water first with a budget caravan with awning and annex and spent the summer traveling the north west. Having done that we are now looking for something bigger.

My point is that what we ended up liking about the experience was not always the what we expected it to be. For example, we thought that our boys would be out all the time doing stuff, but over the holiday they want to be near you just as much, so the awning was indispensable, I expect with younger kids it will apply more to you.

We did not bring a loo or shower and as we stayed in caravan parks this was not an issue. You may even look forward to having a few minutes to yourself every now and again in the shower block!

I would think that your areas to think about are how you will use it, so do you want to be making beds up every night, how much cold space will you need, I can see you preparing a lot home meals, so cooking area and space might be important.

I guess what I am saying as advised, maybe hire a motorhome or caravan and see. Our plan was to buy cheap, have a go and see how it would suit us, if it did not sell on (taking a small hit) or trade up.

It think from the sound of your family you will have a good 10+ years of caravanning and your need will change over that time too (bigger beds, bike carriers, surfboards etc).

best of luck

CelticRambler

650Ginge wrote: »

You will use it less nights after the new fangledness wears off....

Will you?

Myself and SonNo.1 have just finished a 3500km, 3-week tour around France's neighbours, to include visiting one opera festival (Austria) and one trad music festival (Italy). SonNo.2 opted out of a family-and-friends festival holiday in July to go it alone AirBnB-ing in Dublin ... and said afterwards he wished he'd come with us instead. DaughterNo.2 has just asked me where I'll be working over the next few months so that she can plan a father-and-daughter expedition ...

We bought a MH in 2003, as a family of two adults and four children, and the 'van has been in constant use ever since.

It does, though, very much depend on the kind of holidays you take. I read on the boards Travel forum so many people asking about "great campsites" for their holiday in France, where everything's laid on for children and adults. If that's your thing, get a caravan.

My children have been traipsing up mountains and down dark urban alleys all their life, and would go mental if they were confined to a campsite ... but maybe that's because of how they've been reared! This time last week, we were parked on a bare bit of tarmac with "no facilities" 2500m up in the Swiss Alps, setting out on foot to go higher (surrounded by plenty of parents with school and crèche-aged children)

As for the costs, we have a huge advantage in starting from a continental base, so no ferry fares to consider. The trip we've just done came in at just over 800€ for two for three weeks. Zero campsite fees, 15€/100km (so about 500€) for fuel, the rest was spent on food and fun.

So far, it's been great a great run. The dark cloud on the horizon is the spreading plague of pollution control measures. Many of the cities we've previously visited are now closed to us, unless we buy a daily pollution pass or stay outside the city limits and take our chances with public transport.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

The dark cloud on the horizon is the spreading plague of pollution control measures.

I think it's a good thing and I'm a diesel infernal combustion engine owner & abider so no bias in my camp. I'd be more concerned about the spreading plague of CO², climate change and ocean acidification.

Diesel's dead...

Sooner people realise that the sooner I can get a cheapy on the used market...

jace_da_face

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Last year I replaced the clutch kit, fuel sender unit, fuel gauge, disc brakes, pads and lines, number plate lights, hab. lighting amongst other rolling repairs.

I reckon I've renewed 60% of the running gear since I've had her. Mine's getting better with age

Sounds like Trigger's broom

Macy0161

Well we have quite an old van (at this stage), for the last 5 years it's only averaging close to €1000 a year on maintenance, servicing when you include tax and insurance. So far at least (fingers crossed and all that). That's doing zero of the work myself.

You'll have increased fuel costs towing a caravan, potentially a need to upgrade your car based on towing capacities (which you'd then have to drive every day). Definite campsites rather than wild camping (being realistic) in a caravan, the same increased ferry costs with a caravan (it's the overall length that does the damage). It's not all costs either, as actually in the last year or so it's probably been used as much for an overnight "wild camp" where we might otherwise have had to pay a night or two in a hotel or b&b (and still had to drive there, so it's extra fuel rather than the total fuel bill).

We have considered selling or trading in for a caravan, but a similar specced caravan along with a new car to tow it, that was actually more money. The credit union loan is paid off now.

I think either option has potential hidden costs, but if you have a vehicle with a decent towing capacity, it's hard to argue against a caravan if you plan to mainly stay on sites.

autumnalcore

I do all repairs and servicing on our camper. Annual costs including insurance, tax, servicing, tyres, repairs is about €700 p.a. I fully expect to have to do some welding in the next 5 years though which will push it over €1000 p.a.

Outside of holidays we use ours for weddings, stags, birthdays, family occasions etc. where otherwise we would be paying for hotels, guest houses and daytrips where you would otherwise end up eating out so it pays for itself really.

CelticRambler

Those of you including tyres in your per annum service costs, are you averaging that over several years? My set of winter tyres will cost me 400€, and that's with a 25% discount (and not including fitting).

autumnalcore

CelticRambler wrote: »

Those of you including tyres in your per annum service costs, are you averaging that over several years? My set of winter tyres will cost me 400€, and that's with a 25% discount (and not including fitting).

Yes, its not an annual cost for most people. Rotated my tyres have done 35-50k miles (35 for softer all season tyres) or approx 3-4 years, a lot of the motorhome owners we've met do so few miles they end up replacing the tyres for age rather than wear.

CelticRambler

That sounds pretty similar to my rate of wear - the higher end (I get through windscreens faster than tyres! :pac: ) and my usage would be very much like yours rather than just a few long weekends a year as many motorhome "dreamers" end up doing.

I think it's worth pointing out, though, that even if you can nominally spread the cost over several years, you can be faced with fairly hefty one-off payments (especially when things go wrong while you're on the road, away from your usual tools and suppliers).