Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

lertsnim

Former Former wrote: »

My point is that people here only want it because they think we should have it. It's a point of principle.

No one actually wants the content (again, apart from sport).

So there are people that actually want its content even if it is only the sport. They have already received tax payers money to allow them to broadcast in HD yet that HD content is only available on foreign owned pay tv platforms. That is bull****.

JDxtra

Saorview have so few channels, they need to do what they can to persuade what they have to be at least the best quality they can provide. It's embarrassing to be burning off excess bandwidth while VM1/2/3 are in fuzzy vision and even RTE 1/2 are not full HD.

Sam Russell

JDxtra wrote: »

Saorview have so few channels, they need to do what they can to persuade what they have to be at least the best quality they can provide. It's embarrassing to be burning off excess bandwidth while VM1/2/3 are in fuzzy vision and even RTE 1/2 are not full HD.

RTE owns the infrastructure. They should move all their stuff onto mux1 and allow mux2 for the rest. That would mean RTE costs drop to €6 million per year and the rest share €6 million between them. That is - VM 1,2,3, TG4, OTV. If they choose to pay €1m for each channel then they would all want to go HD. Or they could leave, and RTE continue as is, but less costs.

Currently, if VM1 were to go HD under current charges, they would have to pay over €2 million - which is daft. They all need to go HD (or at least the major channels).

The charging regime needs rewriting.

Capt'n Midnight

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE owns the infrastructure. They should move all their stuff onto mux1 and allow mux2 for the rest. That would mean RTE costs drop to €6 million per year and the rest share €6 million between them. That is - VM 1,2,3, TG4, OTV. If they choose to pay €1m for each channel then they would all want to go HD. Or they could leave, and RTE continue as is, but less costs.

Currently, if VM1 were to go HD under current charges, they would have to pay over €2 million - which is daft. They all need to go HD (or at least the major channels).

The charging regime needs rewriting.

The BAI have deemed that channels only pay for the bandwidth they use.

So RTENL have to pay for the rest , even though the main cost is electricity and it's constant regardless of the bandwidth used.

Maybe the minister might change the rules on those sports events that must be FTA, that they should be available in HD ?

This would save RTE a few quid on the rights unless Virgin or TG4 can also offer them in HD.


Or the BAI restrict it's sound and vision scheme to HD only ?

And why can't TG4 go HD on Saorsat ?
Virgin aren't on it they have no reason to complain.


I have no problem with "me too" channels or +1 being in SD , but any channel that want's to tout for national channel privileges should be in HD

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The BAI have deemed that channels only pay for the bandwidth they use.

So RTENL have to pay for the rest , even though the main cost is electricity and it's constant regardless of the bandwidth used.

Maybe the minister might change the rules on those sports events that must be FTA, that they should be available in HD ?

This would save RTE a few quid on the rights unless Virgin or TG4 can also offer them in HD.


Or the BAI restrict it's sound and vision scheme to HD only ?

And why can't TG4 go HD on Saorsat ?
Virgin aren't on it they have no reason to complain.


I have no problem with "me too" channels or +1 being in SD , but any channel that want's to tout for national channel privileges should be in HD

Ther charges relate to the bandwidth used - unused bandwidth does not count. So if everyone used 20% more bandwidth then hey all pay the same.

RTENL, or 2RN as they are known as now, are paid costs plus for Sarview.

The Cush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The BAI have deemed that channels only pay for the bandwidth they use.

So RTENL have to pay for the rest , even though the main cost is electricity and it's constant regardless of the bandwidth used.

The DTT multiplex broadcast charges are based on the regulated tariff, determined under ComReg Decision No. D11/13

The tariff calculation is a bit more complicated than paying just for the bitrate used. The tariff calculation includes a bit called relative use/relative consumption, as I understand it if a broadcaster uses for example 10% average bitrate in a mux then that broadcaster will be charged 10% of the overall running costs for that mux. The unused bitrate is not included but the total running cost of the mux is included in the tariff calculation. Basically the service provider cannot be out of pocket for providing the service.

Calculation Basis

The Tariff charged to each Client is calculated so that the full costs from the Service Provider are recovered (including a return) on a non-discriminatory basis from all users of the DTT Multiplexing, Distribution and Transmission Broadcast Service in accordance with the requirements of ComReg Decision D11/13. Tariffs are derived from the Tariff Model constructed on the basis of assumptions as regards, without limitation, the overall costs of the Service Provider and/or the number, types and total average bit rate consumption per year of the Content Transport Streams.

Mickey Mike

A lot of complicated and technical stuff from The Cush, but surely to God the saorview system can be recalibrated, now that we know the channels and only channels that are going to be on Saorview. So stop the current waste of bandwidth.
Mux1, RTE1 & RTE2 (1920×1080i). RTE1+1 & RTE2+1 (544×576i). RTE Jr & News Now (720×576i). If room is available RTE Radio channels.
Mux2 all other channels, TG4, VM1, VM2, VM3, Oireachtas TV & Saorview Info ch, all on 720×576i. Commercial Radio if ever.
Hope all broadcasters, Comreg, BAI and 2rn work together and common sense will prevail.

Capt'n Midnight

Mickey Mike wrote: »

A lot of complicated and technical stuff from The Cush, but surely to God the saorview system can be recalibrated, now that we know the channels and only channels that are going to be on Saorview. So stop the current waste of bandwidth.
...
Hope all broadcasters, Comreg, BAI and 2rn work together and common sense will prevail.

Transmission costs are fixed , you can't transmit half a signal. It's all or nothing.

Work together, sure where would be the commercial advantage in that be ?
Before saorview TV3 & Co. didn't even bother being carried on the smaller transmitters. It was always the least they could get away with.

Consider how much of taxpayers money has been used to prop them up in various ways over the years and I'm not even sure they are really viable as anything other than a loss leader for the subscription services.

Mickey Mike

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Transmission costs are fixed , you can't transmit half a signal. It's all or nothing.

Work together, sure where would be the commercial advantage in that be ?
Before saorview TV3 & Co. didn't even bother being carried on the smaller transmitters. It was always the least they could get away with.

Consider how much of taxpayers money has been used to prop them up in various ways over the years and I'm not even sure they are really viable as anything other than a loss leader for the subscription services.

OK, in that case leave VM as they are, to hell with them, at least TG4 could up their game to 1440×1080i (please god), I do watch a fair bit of it. And our national broadcaster RTE increase to full HD.

Capt'n Midnight

Mickey Mike wrote: »

OK, in that case leave VM as they are, to hell with them, at least TG4 could up their game to 1440×1080i (please god), I do watch a fair bit of it. And our national broadcaster RTE increase to full HD.

TG4 is like the curate's egg.

A few of the programs have been repeated on Freesat in HD and it's so frustrating to think the only thing they need to change is the supplied stream. Everything else is can remain unchanged including the power requirements.

Mickey Mike

Watching the Ruby IRE vs ENG (ITVhd) happy to have it.

Mickey Mike

I would have thought RTE2+1 would be available to Saorsat viewers by now, its also not available on SKY for some reason, nothing else seems to be in the pipeline.

Charles Babbage

If the licence fee is rejigged, then the transmission network should be a least partly directly funded, but all broadcasters should be required to transmit at full resolution.

Mickey Mike

Does anybody know what channel 14hd holds on saorview? An idea would be to merge RTE jr and RTE News Now, and put it on channel 7 using the HD channel.
On another note I'd like to see Today FM, Newstalk and Classic Hits etc join saorview when the RTE digital radio channels leave next month.

Digifriendly

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Does anybody know what channel 14hd holds on saorview? An idea would be to merge RTE jr and RTE News Now, and put it on channel 7 using the HD channel.
On another note I'd like to see Today FM, Newstalk and Classic Hits etc join saorview when the RTE digital radio channels leave next month.

Newstalk would be welcome addition. It is difficult to receive on FM here in N. Ireland as it is on much lower power than other stations that broadcast from Clermont Carn. Even Today FM is easier to get.

Elvis Hammond

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Does anybody know what channel 14hd holds on saorview? An idea would be to merge RTE jr and RTE News Now, and put it on channel 7 using the HD channel.
On another note I'd like to see Today FM, Newstalk and Classic Hits etc join saorview when the RTE digital radio channels leave next month.

There's nothing 'on' any channel no. (LCN) on Saorview (or any other digital service), no 'HD channel' either, & there's already spare bandwidth, so it's not like Today FM etc. are waiting for it to be freed up.

Gerry Wicklow

They're all getting wage cuts so I strongly doubt they'll be able to pay the cost of Saorview carriage. I too would love Newstalk, as their FM service is crap up here and their satellite feed can be dodgy at times.

dxhound2005

Some people might not know about the Monaghan transmitter on 103.3, since Newstalk advertise themselves as 106 to 108. It should give a decent signal into some areas of the North.

Anyone wanting it on Saorview would have gone to the trouble of putting up a TV aerial outside. A FM aerial on the chimney would do wonders for radio reception.

Sam Russell

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A FM aerial on the chimney would do wonders for radio reception.

It would if the radio had an aerial input rather than a bit of wire dangling out the back, or a bit of metal telescopic stick to poke up in the air.

dxhound2005

Radios like that are designed to pick up FM signals in the transmitter service area, using just the telescopic aerial. Newstalk is not trying to service anyone in the North, it is overspill reception. Same for car radios.

Anyone with a home cinema system will have the right aerial sockets for FM, DAB and maybe Medium Wave (AM). If they think it is worthwhile putting an external FM aerial where the TV aerial is, that will improve reception of Newstalk.

Mickey Mike

Just to say I put up an ariel on my chimney 15 years ago and ever since I have perfect FM radio signal, it does make a huge difference.

Digifriendly

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Some people might not know about the Monaghan transmitter on 103.3, since Newstalk advertise themselves as 106 to 108. It should give a decent signal into some areas of the North.

Anyone wanting it on Saorview would have gone to the trouble of putting up a TV aerial outside. A FM aerial on the chimney would do wonders for radio reception.

Reception of Newstalk here in Moira, near Lisburn N.Ireland is slightly better from Clermont Carn than Monaghan though I guess if you lived in Armagh area and further south in border area the Monaghan signal would be stronger.

dxhound2005

107.9 Clermont is listed as 4 kilowatts here.

http://www.frequencyfinder.org.uk/Irish_Radio.pdf

I think it might be stronger, judging by the distances I can hear it in the car in various directions from Dundalk. Monaghan 103.3 is listed as 2.5, fairly good signal in Dundalk. I am not using an outside aerial.

Before Newstalk came onto Clermont, I always used 107.4, which I take to be the high power transmitter from Truskmore. I notice that Today FM has higher power than RTE on Clermont and Monaghan.

Digifriendly

dxhound2005 wrote: »

107.9 Clermont is listed as 4 kilowatts here.

http://www.frequencyfinder.org.uk/Irish_Radio.pdf

I think it might be stronger, judging by the distances I can hear it in the car in various directions from Dundalk. Monaghan 103.3 is listed as 2.5, fairly good signal in Dundalk. I am not using an outside aerial.

Before Newstalk came onto Clermont, I always used 107.4, which I take to be the high power transmitter from Truskmore. I notice that Today FM has higher power than RTE on Clermont and Monaghan.

Very interesting information. Also out of interest is there any reason why Today FM is on much higher power than Newstalk? Aren't both national stations?

mackersdublin

Digifriendly wrote: »

Newstalk would be welcome addition. It is difficult to receive on FM here in N. Ireland as it is on much lower power than other stations that broadcast from Clermont Carn. Even Today FM is easier to get.

If you have a Sky box or FTA receiver you can get Newstalk - Sky 0210 or FTA 11170 H 22000 5/6 if you have a satellite dish

Antenna

Digifriendly wrote: »

Very interesting information. Also out of interest is there any reason why Today FM is on much higher power than Newstalk? Aren't both national stations?

Today FM is combined into the same antenna as the four RTE FMs which goes well across the border, whilst Newstalk is into a different directional antenna intended for ROI coverage only.

Elvis Hammond

dxhound2005 wrote: »

... I notice that Today FM has higher power than RTE on Clermont and Monaghan.

It seems to be listed at 2x RTE's power at most of those sites: maybe Today FM only transmit vertically polarised signals, while RTE's are mostly mixed pol. (according to tech. parameters spreadsheet) & so the ERP would be divided? (Greystones I think is V-only for RTE, & their output matches Today FM's in that case.)

Elmo

Newstalk is only quasi-National as far as I know.

How much does it cost Newstalk to go on Satellite?

Mickey Mike

Today FM have a far better signal than RTE, I even phoned RTE and told them but they didnt seem to care, if only they used a vertical polarization only, why use both V & H. Tfm have double the power which makes it brilliant.

ka2

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Today FM have a far better signal than RTE, I even phoned RTE and told them but they didnt seem to care, if only they used a vertical polarization only, why use both V & H. Tfm have double the power which makes it brilliant.

Mixed polarisation is a legacy from British 1950s VHF/FM where horizontal polarisation was used as it was less susceptible to some forms of interference. But as car radio usage and personal radio usage increased (all of which used vertically polarised aerials), the BBC transmitter network was converted to use mixed polarisation to enable these new uses, and also so existing horizontally-polarised rooftop installs would continue to work.

I remembered seeing a chart for RTE which seemed to suggest that most RTE sites were vertical only. Three Rock and Kippure were mixed. It's why "halo" FM radio aerials are pretty much useless in Ireland; most stations don't have any horizontal component.