Season 7 Episode 5 "Eastwatch" - "Non book readers"

robwen

hefferboi wrote: »

Jon Snow is the true king.

Dany is the sexy aunt he wants to bang.

So the dragons are Jon Snows cousins?

marcus001

CastorTroy wrote: »

So who thinks Cersei is lying about being pregnant because she thinks Jaime will side with the enemy? Of course that lie can only last so long. Unless she really is pregnant and did it just to keep Jaime. Either way it's out of selfishness and fear.

Considering the amount of fast travel being used in the latest episodes it's going to present a real glaring problem when Jon has travelled to the Wall and back and Cersei still isn't showing.

expectationlost

Dany's 'oh I don't want to lose you Jon' look was very unsublte.

marcus001

murpho999 wrote: »

Another good episode for me. Loads in it.

Producers can't win. For years people have been complaining of slow pacing, filler dragging on etc.

Now it's zipping along and people are still not happy.

For me, the previous seasons have been been scene setters and character developments for what we're seeing now.

The Game of Thrones is in full swing and has begun. Less character development (have any major new characters been introduced this season?) and on with the plot.

As for time, I don't worry about it, I just take it that it's moving along and not all scenes are shown in chronological order.

Only think I struggle with is referencing back to items like Sansa's note to Robb Stark in Season 1. I can't remember them and need forums like this to refresh me. Do writers expect people to remember all the details?

It's almost as if we want a consistent pace as opposed to hours of useless filler and worthless characters before they give us the cliff notes of the important parts.

J. Marston

expectationlost wrote: »

Dany's 'oh I don't to lose you Jon' look was very unsublte.

She makes Tormund look subtle. Mad for nephew D she is.

Daledge

I can deal with the change of pace, in fact I'm actually enjoying it. But what really annoyed me about this episode is that no one even looked for Jaime. He would have been huge to have as a prisoner plus he just came meters away from taking out Dany. I want to see her reaction after Jaime and bronn end up in the water. For anyone that suggests plot armour I also have to disagree as I think it would have made for extremely entertaining dialogue plus it would be interest to see tyrions stance.

That scene with Jon and Drogon, with Dany judging, was just like when myself and the OH were dating in the early days, and she first introduced me to her Pyrenean Mountain Dog. She observed as I was sniffed, sussed-out and chosen not to be killed right there on the spot.

Once the "magnificent beast" accepted me and I didn't move swiftly in its opposite direction, my days were made with the OH. Years later, by my own desire, we now have a second Pyrenean. Jon will become very fond of the dragons, mark my words!

So I can totally relate to that scene from GoT with Jon the Resurrected King, Dany the Unburnt Dragonqueen, and Drogon the jet-sized dragon. :pac:

All joking aside though, I think that was part the intention of that scene. Dany is warming to Jon, romantically IMO. His reaction to Drogon, and Drogon's reaction to Jon, are factors which contribute to those feelings. I think Jon would go there too, but as he said in a recent episode himself when Davos suggested it to him: "Who has time for that now?"

It will be interesting to see Jon and Dany's reaction when they finally find out that they are closely related. Thankfully, that's one myself and the OH didn't have to contend with.

LastLagoon

Gendry ,ugh,who let the throne cast audience into the writers room,lame fan service.
Hopefully he wont make it back over the wall

Mokuba

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It will be interesting to see Jon and Dany's reaction when they finally find out that they are closely related. Thankfully, that's one myself and the OH didn't have to contend with.

It's Targ tradition anyway to keep it in the family. I'm sure this will be pointed out by say Tyrion or someone similar. Sure Dany and Rhaegar are products of incest.

Digital Solitude

*Wrong thread, sorry

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There's a whiff of misogyny about these sentiments. Too often female characters are derided for things that male characters would be lauded for.

Jesus christ, get a grip. Wight Knighting

lazybones32

Pugzilla wrote: »

That's a too simplistic view.

It wasn't the rear of the army, the bulk of the Lannister army was smashed and routed. 10,000 lannister soldiers plus whatever force the Tarlys had commited. Randyll Tarly, probably their best general is dead. The Unsullied are now free to link up with the Dothraki. In a single stroke, Cersei has lost her hold on the Reach and Daenarys has free reign outside the Crownlands.

The number of soldiers who took shields and spears against the horde was nowhere near the amount shown against olenna. The gold, the reason for the battle, was safely into KL and the more important item will have a greater escort.
The dothraki card has been played; they won't be of much use now...unless they can build and operate siegeworks against KL. The unsullied will come back, less than went out, but they can't be replenished. Again, they are infantry, not fit for taking fixed positions in a frontal assault.

CMOTDibbler

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus christ, get a grip. Wight Knighting

Touch a nerve?

Ann22

Mokuba wrote:

It's Targ tradition anyway to keep it in the family. I'm sure this will be pointed out by say Tyrion or someone similar. Sure Dany and Rhaegar are products of incest.

Are they? Do you mean Dany and Viserys? Rhaegar was their brother. Who was their mother...was there any mention of her?

Penn

expectationlost wrote: »

ok capture a wight out of the army of the dead and white walkers wtf is their plan to do that?

Benjen said something abut there being magic built into the Wall which meant he couldn't pass through it. Even if they capture a wight, will it turn into a bunch of bones once they go trough the wall?

Or even worse, will dragging a wight through the Wall be the very thing that allows the Night King and his army to then pass through it themselves?

Mickeroo

Penn wrote: »

Benjen said something abut there being magic built into the Wall which meant he couldn't pass through it. Even if they capture a wight, will it turn into a bunch of bones once they go trough the wall?

Or even worse, will dragging a wight through the Wall be the very thing that allows the Night King and his army to then pass through it themselves?

A wight already came through the wall in season one (or was it two?), when it attacked Jon and Commander Mormont. Benjen is a good bit different to the wights from what we've seen anyway in that he's sentient at least, maybe he's closer to an actual white walker and they're the ones who can't get through rather than the garden variety zombie/wights.

CMOTDibbler

Ann22 wrote: »

Are they? Do you mean Dany and Viserys? Rhaegar was their brother. Who was their mother...was there any mention of her?

The last Targaryen to marry outside the family was Dany's great-grandfather. Maester Aemon's brother to be exact. Her grandfather married his sister and so did her father Aerys.

super_furry

I think they'll be bringing a wight back alright but it'll be one of their own. The Jorah redemption story arc seems to have been completed and I reckon he'll 'die' over that side of the wall and be brought back to rise as a white walker.

Ping Chow Chi

man, that would be a cold thing to do to Jorah!

CMOTDibbler

Mickeroo wrote: »

A wight already came through the wall in season one (or was it two?), when it attacked Jon and Commander Mormont. Benjen is a good bit different to the wights from what we've seem anyway in that he's sentient at least, maybe he's closer to an actual white walker and they're the ones who can't get through rather than the garden variety zombie/wights.

They brought it through though, didn't they? I think it was a couple of night's watchmen that had been killed by wights and they found their bodies and brought them back.

murpho999

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I recognised the line straight away. It's one of little fingers best exchanges with another character. Why does everything need to be explained to people.

Good for you but not everybody has the memory of an elephant. A lot of conversations have happened in this show over 6 previous seasons and it's impossible to remember them all.

The explanation of "chaos is a ladder" was also given on last week's "Thronecast" on Sky and many people including cast members did not spot it or remember the conversation between Littlefinger and Varys. It's completely normal to be that way.

Mickeroo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The last Targaryen to marry outside the family was Dany's great-grandfather. Maester Aemon's brother to be exact. Her grandfather married his sister and so did her father Aerys.

Not if yerman who recorded all his poops is to be believed :pac:

Mokuba

Ann22 wrote: »

Are they? Do you mean Dany and Viserys? Rhaegar was their brother. Who was their mother...was there any mention of her?

All 3.

Dany, Rhaegar and Viserys parents (Mad King Aerys and Rhaella) were also brother and sister. I didn't mention Viserys earlier as he isn't relevant to the story anymore.

They have been inbreeding for generations to preserve the bloodline.

So it's pretty much custom and I'm sure there'll be somebody to point it out should the simmering between Jon and Dany boil over before the series end.

Edit - Didn't see your question about what happened to Rhaella. She died giving birth to Dany on Dragonstone.

CMOTDibbler

Mickeroo wrote: »

Not if yerman who recorded all his poops is to be believed :pac:

Well that was only a change of horse in mid race . His first wife was a Martell. In a direct line to Dany and Rhaegar, Aegon V was the last one.

brevity

I'd love if the next episode just focused on the lads beyond the wall.

murpho999

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

You're just making up stuff to suit your POV.

Iirc there were very little complaints from S1-4.

People rightfully complained about the huge drop off in quality in S5 (until the last 2/3 episodes).

People rightfully complained about the continued drop off in quality in S6 (first half of season at least).

And people are rightfully complaining about the ridiculous pick-up in pace and incredible inconsistencies in S7, many of which are pointed out in this thread and threads that come before them, some of which are not.

And the only counter argument seems to be along the lines of "just get on with it ffs," which quite frankly is a load of bollocks. People are entitled to point out the glaring inconsistencies and debate them on this board, it's whole f*cking point of the place.

Plenty of times people have complained about the pacing of the show. You only have to look at the comments for Episode 1 of this season to see this.

Would also disagree about Season 5 which is one of my favourite seasons and also one of the most universally critically acclaimed so you are also twisting things to suit your POV.

CMOTDibbler

brevity wrote: »

I'd love if the next episode just focused on the lads beyond the wall.

Well

if the trailer is to be believed, you'll get your wish.

murpho999

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Well

if the trailer is to be believed, you'll get your wish.

Won't next week's be the equivalent of an Episode 9?

Thus an epic penultimate episode?

CMOTDibbler

murpho999 wrote: »

Won't next week's be the equivalent of an Episode 9.

Thus an epic penultimate episode?

It probably won't be a

Battle of the Bastards; almost one location episode. But I would say most of the action will be north of the wall.

5star02707

murpho999 wrote: »

Won't next week's be the equivalent of an Episode 9.

Thus an epic penultimate episode?

That's right, penultimate episode which means something "interesting" will happen i think it is given someone WILL die on episode 6.

Penn

5star02707 wrote: »

That's right, penultimate episode which means something "interesting" will happen i think it is given someone WILL die on episode 6.

Yeah unfortunately I don't see all of Jon's Bastardhood Without Banners making it back alive. Like someone else said, it's possible the wight they bring back will be one of them who was turned. Could have more of an impact on Cersei being able to recognise the person who was turned into a wight.

willmunny1990

I don't care who they bring back as a Wight once it's not The Hound.

Loafing Oaf

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I don't care who they bring back as a Wight once it's not The Hound.

Zombie-Cleganebowl could be interesting though. Although it mightn't have a clear ending...

GBX

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I don't care who they bring back as a Wight once it's not The Hound.

Or Wun Wun

Vojera

Something that annoyed me about Arya this episode is that she seems to assume that Sansa is the same person she was the last time they were together. Her comment about Sansa liking "pretty things" leads me to believe she still thinks that Sansa the same shallow girl who was starstruck by Joffrey. She doesn't seem to appreciate that, as much as Arya has changed, so has Sansa.

I also think that, like Cersei, Arya may not be as clever as she thinks she is. I'm interested to see how she fares against Littlefinger.

expectationlost

wouldn't the easist thing to do is ride a dragon up there and snatch a wight and fly to kings landing

ILikeBoats

expectationlost wrote: »

wouldn't the easist thing to do is ride a dragon up there and snatch a wight and fly to kings landing

First thing I thought of too!

Calibos

Don't be stupid. Thats even more ridiculous than hitching a ride on a giant eagle to drop a ring into a volcano.....

rgace

This mission past the wall seems so pointless to me.

Surely, Tyrian at least knows that Cerci does not care about the greater good or any such notions.

Penn

expectationlost wrote: »

wouldn't the easist thing to do is ride a dragon up there and snatch a wight and fly to kings landing

Dany's still not fully behind Jon's mission or the fight against the White Walkers. She's clearly willing to help him to an extent, even letting Jorah go off with him, but Dany's not going to risk riding a dragon north of the Wall. Not when full-blown war against Cersei is on the cards, and that's Dany's priority.

She believes Jon. But she's only looking as far as King's Landing, at least until some sort of truce with Cersei is agreed to. Otherwise, Dany wants to take the throne, and then deal with the White Walkers later.

CMOTDibbler

Calibos wrote: »

Don't be stupid. Thats even more ridiculous than hitching a ride on a giant eagle to drop a ring into a volcano.....

[LOTR]Ummm, did it never occur to people proposing this 'solution', that large eagles carrying a ring, wouldn't be able to sneak into Mordor?[/LOTR]
Apologies for the digression.

Mousewar

Dani's Executions
Dani's executions are meant to appear 'wrong' in the context of the show as evidenced by Tyrion's reaction to them while they were happening and his conversation with Varys afterwards. The show wants us to view them as, at least, problematic. And yes, other 'good' characters have performed executions before on the show including Jon, Robb, and Ned but they had the decency to look a bit conflicted about it. Dani looked very much like she was on a power trip and the theme of her possibly being corrupted by power has been lingering for a while now.
I actually now fully expect, in keeping with this theme, for there to be a conflict between Dani and Jon next season. I don't see her taking the news of his greater claim to the throne well. At this point, her whole existence is based on becoming Queen. She won't let it go.

Confirmation of Jon's legitimacy
I liked the anti-dramatic reveal of this. Note how they made a point of Sam taking the book off Gilly and giving it to the kid. I suspect the kid will have retained the book and so it left the citadel with them. He'll be playing with it in a future episode whereupon Sam will finally notice the information (maybe a scene where the kid is being taught to read or something).

The mission beyond the Wall
Like others, this seems like a bizarre plan. I mean, it could work but it seems like a longshot and all to convince Cersei? Why are they so bothered about Cersei? At the moment, she really isn't a massive threat and do they really believe she's the type to agree to work together? Well, maybe they don't know her well but Tyrion does. As hand to Dani, you think he'd be pointing that out. And, funnily enough, Cersei is the last person who needs convincing about Wights. Her own bodyguard is one.

Which brings me to

The Hound
As others have said, one of the party dying and becoming a wight would be the easiest way of actually getting one. And if it was the Hound that was brought to King's Landing there would be a certain poetry in the two undead brothers going at each other as surely must happen in that scenario.

Cersei's Pregnancy
I say it's real. Qyburn was heard offering to give her something as Jaime walked in, presumably for morning sickness or whatever. Could be a very well planned ploy knowing that Jaime would overhear but I don't think so. Clues like that in films/TV tend to be straightforward.

Finally,

The Viagra Lads
Anyone else feel sorry for these two lads getting their heads bashed in just going about their jobs?


I'm still onboard with this season but struggled with the mad plot to capture a wight to bring Cersei on board. Smacks of a McGuffin to me.

murpho999

Mousewar wrote: »

Dani's Executions
Dani's executions are meant to appear 'wrong' in the context of the show as evidenced by Tyrion's reaction to them while they were happening and his conversation with Varys afterwards. The show wants us to view them as, at least, problematic. And yes, other 'good' characters have performed executions before on the show including Jon, Robb, and Ned but they had the decency to look a bit conflicted about it. Dani looked very much like she was on a power trip and the theme of her possibly being corrupted by power has been lingering for a while now.
I actually now fully expect, in keeping with this theme, for there to be a conflict between Dani and Jon next season. I don't see her taking the news of his greater claim to the throne well. At this point, her whole existence is based on becoming Queen. She won't let it go.

Confirmation of Jon's legitimacy
I liked the anti-dramatic reveal of this. Note how they made a point of Sam taking the book off Gilly and giving it to the kid. I suspect the kid will have retained the book and so it left the citadel with them. He'll be playing with it in a future episode whereupon Sam will finally notice the information (maybe a scene where the kid is being taught to read or something).

The mission beyond the Wall
Like others, this seems like a bizarre plan. I mean, it could work but it seems like a longshot and all to convince Cersei? Why are they so bothered about Cersei? At the moment, she really isn't a massive threat and do they really believe she's the type to agree to work together? Well, maybe they don't know her well but Tyrion does. As hand to Dani, you think he'd be pointing that out. And, funnily enough, Cersei is the last person who needs convincing about Wights. Her own bodyguard is one.

Which brings me to

The Hound
As others have said, one of the party dying and becoming a wight would be the easiest way of actually getting one. And if it was the Hound that was brought to King's Landing there would be a certain poetry in the two undead brothers going at each other as surely must happen in that scenario.

Cersei's Pregnancy
I say it's real. Qyburn was heard offering to give her something as Jaime walked in, presumably for morning sickness or whatever. Could be a very well planned ploy knowing that Jaime would overhear but I don't think so. Clues like that in films/TV tend to be straightforward.

Finally,

The Viagra Lads
Anyone else feel sorry for these two lads getting their heads bashed in just going about their jobs?


I'm still onboard with this season but struggled with the mad plot to capture a wight to bring Cersei on board. Smacks of a McGuffin to me.

Just in relation to Jon's legitimacy.

As nobody apart from Bran knows about this I assume the info will come out in a future episode and Sam will recall the book and use it to prove Jon's status.

I think its shaping up to be a dispute between Jon and Gendry.

WinnyThePoo

murpho999 wrote: »

Good for you but not everybody has the memory of an elephant. A lot of conversations have happened in this show over 6 previous seasons and it's impossible to remember them all.

The explanation of "chaos is a ladder" was also given on last week's "Thronecast" on Sky and many people including cast members did not spot it or remember the conversation between Littlefinger and Varys. It's completely normal to be that way.

It really isn't up to the shows creators to explain things that have happened and you have watched. The show would go no where if so.

I dont have a memory of an elephant. I just watch the show.

Mr Crispy

I really wouldn't like to see Undead Clegane Bowl. If the Hound's personality is gone (not sure how much of the Mountain's is actually left), what'd be the point in their face-off?

Bacchus

Mokuba wrote: »

Didn't see your question about what happened to Rhaella. She died giving birth to Dany on Dragonstone.

Ooooh, isn't there a theory that Tyrion also has Targaryan blood? Three dragons, one each for Dany, Jon and Tyrion. Could each of their mothers dying giving birth to them be a hint at that?

Another great episode but probably the weakest since the season 7 opener. The jumping around locations was just a bit too much. I don't mind the increase in pace, we're on the business end of the show but they really put the boot down in this episode and I think they took it too far to get the Fellowship up to the wall by the credits. Also, Jamie should be a POW. It's ridiculous that he's not.

Loafing Oaf

Mousewar wrote: »

The Viagra Lads
Anyone else feel sorry for these two lads getting their heads bashed in just going about their jobs?

Kind of a recurring thing in GoT, even 'good' characters like Bronn and Brienne pre-emptively take out soldiers they encounter when they run out of options. Guess it reflects the reality of life in olden times...

CMOTDibbler

Bacchus wrote: »

Another great episode but probably the weakest since the season 7 opener. The jumping around locations was just a bit too much. I don't mind the increase in pace, we're on the business end of the show but they really put the boot down in this episode and I think they took it too far to get the Fellowship up to the wall by the credits. Also, Jamie should be a POW. It's ridiculous that he's not.

You probabkly missed it, but there was a looong discussion on this. The TL:DR version is that by ship, the trip could take anything from a week to a fortnight depending on whether they got a favourable wind or not.

charlieIRL

I often wonder if the Night King can Warg as well as Bran so he can keep an eye on things south of the wall??

Not the best episode of the season so far bu they all can't be excellent. Am just a bit pee'd that there's only 2 left for this season.

murpho999

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

It really isn't up to the shows creators to explain things that have happened and you have watched. The show would go no where if so.

I dont have a memory of an elephant. I just watch the show.

I am not stating that they should explain everything but a lot of the content in the show is hard to remember and I do rely on internet forums and websites for some stuff.

For example I would guess 90% of viewers would not have got the joke with Davos's "fewer" content last week. Was very funny but most people will simply not remember every conversation.

Nobody that I spoke to about it last week had copped it.

Same as Sana's note last night, a lot of people would not remember that Cersei made her write that to Robb in Season 1.