Season 7 Episode 5 "Eastwatch" - "Book readers"

CMOTDibbler

I felt very sorry for poor old Dickon Tarly. Seemed like a nice enough (if somewhat earnest) young chap, who was saddled with a complete dick of a father. All Tarly senior had to do was bend the bloody knee and Dickon was off the hook. He didn't even try too hard to save his son and actually seemed glad of the company . I was sure Dickon had a future after having had to endure slagging from Jaime and Bronn. As it turned out, they were only minor burns.

Anyhoo, I got to wondering (as you do) how Dany lined up Drogon to toast the right people on command. I mean was there a kind of blue circle like a drop zone in golf or something? Or maybe it's just where she looks. Kind of like a heads up display on a fighter aircraft. Drogon just tracks her head movements. Would make it vitally important that none of her entourage interrupt her mid-Dracarys as it were.

blackwhite

ardinn wrote: »

Not sure about that either - when a series hits 100 episodes they get something called "syndication" money

This turns the series from a great earner into mega money - like seriously bigger earnings - difference of a 2 up 2 down to a 1000acre acre estate money!!!

I cant see them leaving it at 84! Maybe (probably) wrong though!!

Syndication isn't something that happens automatically when a series passes a number of episodes - it's where the producers decide to (and are able to find buyers) licence the progam to multiple channels/networks to broadcast re-runs etc. (i.e. like Friends being syndicated on Comedy Central)

It's nothing to do with the volume of episodes produced - it's down to the popularity/marketability of the show, and the expected demand for repeat viewing.

The 100 episode "threshold" is simply a rule of thumb for how likely a show is, or isn't, to be successfully syndicated (and is usually intended for 30-min shows that will be shown in blocks of 2 or 4 episodes at a time).
Something that's been as culturally significant as GOT would not have any problem being syndicated regardless of the number of episodes they ultimately finish on.
TBH - the irregular episode run-times are more likely to cause issues for syndication buyers when it comes to GOT.

A show with a large volume of episodes is more attractive for syndication because it's obviously popular enough to justify a lengthy production run, and the more episodes then the longer the interval between repeats will be - but there's no minimum number of episodes required for syndication if a show is popular enough to justify it.

That said - HBO have mostly avoided traditional syndication for their shows (with a few exceptions like Entourage and Sex and the City) - instead licencing their major hits to subscription-based streaming services like Amazon.

wp_rathead

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Worse:

There could be another Aegon about.

oh I know, but don't see them using that storyline at all in the show so wonder what they mean-
all probably a red herring but it's fun to think about

Dyr

Am I the only one noticing the bastarding crows cawing in the background in certain scenes?

Loafing Oaf

Daith wrote: »

Yeah I'm not buying the wight hunt.

Everyone: "Here look at this"
Cersei: "It's a reanimated corpse. I've a reanimated corpse." *Taps The Mountain*

"And didn't you yourself Jon Snow take a knife through the heart at one point?":P

Gbear

The Arya story doesn't really work.

You'd have to be some thundering dickhead not to understand that she wrote that message under duress.

I suppose they were trying to make the case that Arya already distrusts her this episode but after such a short turnaround from the previous episode they really didn't sell it.
She just looks like an absolute moron.

Also, I'm not sure what the term is for Littlefinger's plan - it's the sort that requires foreknowledge of the plot being given to him by the writers.

connemara man wrote: »

Gendry said he can handle himself and crushed 2 unarmed soldiers by attacking them from behind, with a weapon of his own making, that's a version of what he works every day with. definitely not great warrior stuff

Tell, not show. They don't have time for showing anymore.

Dave_The_Sheep

Well, that was ... something. Obviously a bit slower paced than last week, though it had to be I suppose. Some points:

1. I really liked the bend-the-knee/Tarly-death scene, that was really well done. Tyrion continues to impress there and pity Tarly had to go, he was a right hard nose bastard. Daenerys continuing to take steps along the path to Mad-King hood, though I suppose she'd argue that killing those two saved the lives of many more common soldiers who had til that point refused to bend the knee.

2. Drogon and Jon having their little moment pretty much seals that side of things regarding Dragonriders and will likely push down the Jon/Daenerys marriage route. Mind you, quite what Jon was thinking "let's pet the dragon, who's a good boy then" ... quite the leap of faith. The "Wasn't the word I was thinking of, but" bit was good for a laugh too. Dany is one step closer to finding out Jon has come back from the dead. Good to see Jorah and his Khaleesi getting back together, bonus of the first bit of geniunely decent acting from Clarke so far this season. Similarly in the goodbye sequence as the lads head off.

3. I'm unsure about the Arya / Sansa / Littlefinger conflict that's going on there. Arya might be changed, but she's not an idiot. She'd know full well that Sansa wrote that under pressure / duress. The suspicion from Arya just doens't make sense and seems to be drummed up by the writers to keep that side of things interesting / resolve the Littlefinger situation.

4. The whole "capture a wight [edit - thanks Rathead - as I meant, Wight] " thing is bat**** crazy, and makes no sense. Pure fan service (again) from the writers to get the Seven Samurai heading up North together. They have to get from Dragonstone -> Eastwatch -> to the North -> back to Eastwatch -> Back to Kings Landing ... then bring it to Cersei and hope that she's going to see reason. No sign of it so far. And how long is it going to take for them to do all this (given what else could/will be going on in the meantime) given the travel time involved? Surely the WW will have arrived by then, or Cersei's kid to be at least well on the way.

5. For a city that's on the brink of a siege, it's awful ****ing easy for Davos and Tyrion to get into King's Landing. Row in, plain view of everyone, have a stroll around, kill a few guards, row out. No hassle. Gendry coming back again is nice and all, but I'm wondering what the point is ... and then the "thought you might still be rowing" line. More fan service.

Fair play to Dinklage and Coster-Waldau during their scene here, great stuff from them. Dialogue wasn't half bad either.

6. Cersei's pregnancy. I'm just not buying it. Pure manipulation on her part, otherwise it's political suicide. She's only got two things going for her in this war, Euron Greyjoy and his fleet and the Iron Bank's money to hire the Golden Company. If she alienates Euron, which having a kid with Jamie would absolutely do as it's the only thing Euron wants ... then no way the Iron Bank will back her in the war, so the other disappears too.

7. Not sure where the Sam and Gilly thing is going. He (randomly?) takes a bunch of scrolls from the Citadel and they head off with themselves. Will those scrolls randomly have info about Jon's parentage or will that all come from Bran? Or is it info vital to a war effort.

8. So much manliness in that cell scene at the end. Snow, Tormund, Mormont, Ser Gregor, Gendry, Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr. While it's all massively convenient and as much as I dislike the writing involved in that plotline, because it's totall sh*te, that's a solid group of lads and hopefully we'll get some decent dialogue out of it, especially given some of them hate each other.

I don't see Jorah and maybe the Hound coming back from that trip, sadly enough. Someone's going to have to take one for the team at some point ... or we'll get a miraculous dragon rescue (since Jon's a Targ now etc).

The teleportation is getting to me more and more here. We've had people popping all over the place. Tyrion goes from Dragonstone to Kings Landing and back, then the lads go from Dragonstone -> Eastwatch as detailed above ... this **** should take months, even by sea ... which by the way, is ruled by Euron. I get that we're speeding things up and not doing travel anymore, but can we please try for a bit of rationality to the writing. Apparently making sense isn't required anymore.

(Oh, and speaking of non-sensical writing how the flying f*ck did Jamie and Bronn go into the water 20 yards away from Drogon and end up a few hundred metres downstream ... in a completley placid river ... dressed in full f*cking armour ... even with their swords still attached.)

I'm enjoying the show still, but it's becoming harder to put up with the inconsistency in the name of fan-service, cool scenes and a fantasy world.

The White Wolf

This show is such a bastard for conflicting me. Lord Tarly achieves both hatred (his disgust at the mere thought of reuniting with his son) and compassion (how he touches his other son before being roasted alive) in the matter of a minute.

RobbingBandit

More than one way to reanimate a corpse, Beric and Jon are fire wights brought back through the Lord of light, the Hound not sure thought it was elder brother that brought him back then there are the wights brought back by the night king and finally Gregor by Qyburn. The night king seems to be using a method of the children of the forest, anyone else think Gendry may be a glamour charm?

wp_rathead

3. I'm unsure about the Arya / Sansa / Littlefinger conflict that's going on there. Arya might be changed, but she's not an idiot. She'd know full well that Sansa wrote that under pressure / duress. The suspicion from Arya just doens't make sense and seems to be drummed up by the writers to keep that side of things interesting / resolve the Littlefinger situation.

4. The whole "capture a white walker" thing is bat**** crazy, and makes no sense.

3) well Ayra doesn't know about about Sansa's story at all- all she remembers is her always wanting to be a Lady- which she now is and sleeping in their parent's bedroom. She remembers Sansa not standing up for Nymeria. For all she knows she was living in luxury in Kings Landing during the time she was struggling. The whole bit Ayra showed her niavity which I kinda liked- we saw her last week be a great fighter but she is still a child and ignorant of alot the going ons.

4) They plan on capturing A Wight, not a White Walker. But ya, it's bit of a Hail Mary that whole plan. It'll be fun but jaysus it kinda came out of no where and does require you to just "go with it"..

Dave_The_Sheep

wp_rathead wrote: »

3) well Ayra doesn't know about about Sansa's story at all- all she remembers is her always wanting to be a Lady- which she now is and sleeping in their parent's bedroom. She remembers Sansa not standing up for Nymeria. For all she knows she was living in luxury in Kings Landing during the time she was struggling. The whole bit Ayra showed her niavity which I kinda liked- we saw her last week be a great fighter but she is still a child and ignorant of alot the going ons.

4) They plan on capturing A Wight, not a White Walker. But ya, it's bit of a Hail Mary that whole plan. It'll be fun but jaysus it kinda came out of no where and does require you to just "go with it"..

3. She saw Sansa going nuts screaming when their father has his head cut off. I don't think it's too much to expect her to figure it out, particularly after talking to Sansa for a short while behind the scenes.

4. Indeed, and thanks for letting me know, I know I typed White Walker - but as you say a wight is what I meant. I'll edit that - and my complaints were about that plan. It's seriously "we're doing this, get over it".

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

7. Not sure where the Sam and Gilly thing is going. He (randomly?) takes a bunch of scrolls from the Citadel and they head off with themselves. Will those scrolls randomly have info about Jon's parentage or will that all come from Bran? Or is it info vital to a war effort.

The info on Jon is in Maynard's book that Sam gave to the kid. It will turn up later no doubt.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The teleportation is getting to me more and more here. We've had people popping all over the place. Tyrion goes from Dragonstone to Kings Landing and back, then the lads go from Dragonstone -> Eastwatch as detailed above ... this **** should take months, even by sea ... which by the way, is ruled by Euron. I get that we're speeding things up and not doing travel anymore, but can we please try for a bit of rationality to the writing. Apparently making sense isn't required anymore.

Dragonstone to KL isn't far. Certainly no more than a day or two by boat. Would assume ship for part of it.

But I'm kinda tired of hearing this complaint. This stuff has been happening all the damn show long. There was even a meme about it featuring Varys a couple of seasons back. So now when I reply, I just ask the obvious question. What do you want them to do?

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

But I'm kinda tired of hearing this complaint. This stuff has been happening all the damn show long. There was even a meme about it featuring Varys a couple of seasons back. So now when I reply, I just ask the obvious question. What do you want them to do?

It really hasn't, certainly not in the earlier seasons (bar maybe one or two I can think of - edited). The Varys meme was about the last episode of last season - Varys going between Dorne and Dany's side of the ocean. So it's not even a full season ago - and coincidentally also happens after they've passed out the source material.

The way they've done the previous seasons has been to show some travel, eg Arya and the Hound, or Jamie and Brienne. What they're doing now is having bits of more or less everyone in each episode, which requires teleportation like they're doing. If they're not going to show travel, then segment the different scenes in the show into different episodes. So there's longer scenes of the same people but less scenes per episode. Just a thought.

I don't like this argument anyway. I'm not a screenwriter. I don't get paid **** loads to do this. Much like I can't play sports to a high level, doesn't mean I can't critique someone's performance. I shouldn't have to come up with a solution when the problem is as obvious as this.

Dyr

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

(Oh, and speaking of non-sensical writing how the flying f*ck did Jamie and Bronn go into the water 20 yards away from Drogon and end up a few hundred metres downstream ... in a completley placid river ... dressed in full f*cking armour ... even with their swords still attached.)

I'm enjoying the show still, but it's becoming harder to put up with the inconsistency in the name of fan-service, cool scenes and a fantasy world.

first thing I noticed, I though "current, maybe?" then there was none

It's not as funny as the previous episode where apparently there was massive drop in the river about two feet from the bank. Must have been a reservoir

The reason Davos would look for Gendry is simple, he was and still is a high quality smith in Kings Landing.
One by the way, who does not like the Lannisters, and oh yeah, has also heard about the "terrors in the night" from Mellisandre.

I am not sure why some are surprised he was sought. You need to armor up, go to the man with skills, reason and understanding of what your fighting.

RobbingBandit

Davos has lost most of his children, he also lost princess shireen, Gendry would be of special interest to him given that he was a ward of Stannis while Davis was with the dead king, he and Gendry share a bond. I also wouldn't rule out Milisandrea being involved some how.

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

It really hasn't, certainly not in the earlier seasons (bar maybe one or two I can think of - edited). The Varys meme was about the last episode of last season - Varys going between Dorne and Dany's side of the ocean. So it's not even a full season ago - and coincidentally also happens after they've passed out the source material.

Arya teleported around Essos as did Tyrion. And those were massive distances. Littlefiinger was the first known teleporter and that was long before last season. He was popping up in KL, Harrenhal, The Vale and Winterfell at will.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

If they're not going to show travel, then segment the different scenes in the show into different episodes. So there's longer scenes of the same people but less scenes per episode. Just a thought.

You're then going to have needless filler to pad out those scenes. That would seriously impact the experience imo. So we see Tyrion at KL and then don't see him return until next episode. So the lads can't go to Eastwatch until even later in that episode or probably not until an even later episode because we have to see them on a ship to there. Meanwhile other dependant interactions are on hold as well.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I don't like this argument anyway. I'm not a screenwriter. I don't get paid **** loads to do this. Much like I can't play sports to a high level, doesn't mean I can't critique someone's performance. I shouldn't have to come up with a solution when the problem is as obvious as this.

You can't critique someone's performance if you don't know what else they could have possibly done. Or do you just say they're crap without giving a reason?

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You can't critique someone's performance if you don't know what else they could have possibly done. Or do you just say they're crap without giving a reason?

I told you what I think they could have possibly done.

And I also gave reasons as for why I think the writing is at times lazy, particularly in regard to 'teleportation'. I didn't say crap.

You don't agree, that's fine.

Like I said, I'm still enjoying the show, but it's getting more and more blatant (for reasons) and it irritates me given the quality of the show in previous seasons has been quite high.

Hans Bricks

Thought that was a solid episode.

So what if there's a bit of fan service in Gendry and the fellowship of the Wight ? The last man of Baratheon lineage getting to spread his wings outside the ****hole of Fleabottom. Let him at it. He deserves it.

The "teleportation" cynicism is getting extremely tedious. It'll take maybe a month and a half for Jon and Co. to bring back a wight to the south from the North. Big meh. They need proof of the dead to show to the rest of Westeros, desperate times call for desperate measures and all that. Bran's raven to Dragonstone was obviously meant to accelerate that arc.

That conversation between Jaime and Cersei should have more or less implied that they've conceded defeat from a military standpoint. "Fight like Father would have". (Red Wedding style). Dany controls the chessboard from here in really. She can wait a couple of months for Jon to return to broker the armistice. Remember the advice Tyrion gave in the first war room meeting ? She would rather not take King's Landing with a shower of foreign eunuchs and bloodthirsty Dothraki from the east.

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I told you what I think they could have possibly done.

And I also gave reasons as for why I think the writing is at times lazy, particularly in regard to 'teleportation'. I didn't say crap.

You don't agree, that's fine.

Like I said, I'm still enjoying the show, but it's getting more and more blatant (for reasons) and it irritates me given the quality of the show in previous seasons has been quite high.

You just took the last line of my post and responded to that. I actually engaged with what you thought they could have done and you ignored it.

And as I said, the 'teleportation' was there from the very beginning. Not just since the source material was left behind. Even GRRM did it. And wrote about why it was necessary.

That's why I'm tired of hearing complaints about it.

Savage Tyrant

ardinn wrote: »

I genuinely thought Gendry was brought back to forge weapons with mined Dragonglass!! Would make sense to have tipped swords etc

Not just tipped swords, but maybe the dragonglass is the missing ingredient from making more Valeryian steel weapons. .. And Gendry apprenticed in the early seasons to the same smith that Tywin used to reforge the Valeryian sword Ice.

mewso

The magnificent seven up north just need one of them to die, wait a while and hey presto they have a captured wight.

Gbear

One thing that I didn't register because it was too stupid was that they just rocked up to a beach in sight of the Red Keep in the middle of the ****ing day in the middle of a war and their justification was that there was no guards because there was too many steps.

Why didn't they just say "lets sneak 400 Dothraki in there in row boats and seize the Red Keep?"

But the dragons sure look swell this season. So there's that.

If you showed this to people 10 years ago and said this was what tv CGI was going to look like they'd either call bull**** or their heads would've exploded.

It's a pity all the technical aspects of this show have been let down by the criminally inept writers.

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You just took the last line of my post and responded to that. I actually engaged with what you thought they could have done and you ignored it.

And as I said, the 'teleportation' was there from the very beginning. Not just since the source material was left behind. Even GRRM did it. And wrote about why it was necessary.

That's why I'm tired of hearing complaints about it.

I saw that. I decided to ignore it, much when you said
"if you don't know what else they could have possibly done. Or do you just say they're crap without giving a reason?" and ignored the fact I'd done both. Fair's fair.

But if you want to engage, the point I've been making is that the teleportation that went on (and I even admitted there were times it happened) earlier in the series hasn't been anywhere near as blatantly lazy as it has been this time. I even said that I get why they're doing it in that it's the second last season, coming to the end etc. They also had travel segments alongisde that gave Westeros a sense of being a massive and dangerous place, particularly during the War of the Five Kings. I get that we don't need more of this, but I don't recall times where lazy teleportation in earlier seasons caused huge continuity issues that it should at times this season.

Example, Cersei is now allegedly pregnant and her and Dany are waiting on the captured wight proof. It should take months for the lads to get the boat up to Eastwatch, then go North of the Wall, find the dead, capture one, then come back, presumably by sea as well. Particularly the coming back part is going to cause problems - because the Night King isn't going to be sitting on his arse wating for them. The North should be in ruins by the time they get back to Cersei/Dany and then get the armies together. And will Cersei be half way along pregnant at this point? Do you not see the way lazy teleportation here causes serious problems?

EagererBeaver

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Arya teleported around Essos as did Tyrion. And those were massive distances. Littlefiinger was the first known teleporter and that was long before last season. He was popping up in KL, Harrenhal, The Vale and Winterfell at will.

Surely Arya's whole time in Essos was in Braavos?

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I saw that. I decided to ignore it, much when you said
"if you don't know what else they could have possibly done. Or do you just say they're crap without giving a reason?" and ignored the fact I'd done both. Fair's fair.

That particular quote was in reference to a particular statement you made. The fact I responded to the rest of your post seperately should have been a clue.

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Example, Cersei is now allegedly pregnant and her and Dany are waiting on the captured wight proof. It should take months for the lads to get the boat up to Eastwatch, then go North of the Wall, find the dead, capture one, then come back, presumably by sea as well. Particularly the coming back part is going to cause problems - because the Night King isn't going to be sitting on his arse wating for them. The North should be in ruins by the time they get back to Cersei/Dany and then get the armies together. And will Cersei be half way along pregnant at this point? Do you not see the way lazy teleportation here causes serious problems?

Well why don't you actually try and work out how long such a journey should take? Dragonstone to Eastwatch is actually a relatively short sea journey. About 1000 miles I think. On a ship like the one they were using, that would take about eight or nine days.

So no teleportation required and no late babies (if there even is one).

Gbear

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I saw that. I decided to ignore it, much when you said
"if you don't know what else they could have possibly done. Or do you just say they're crap without giving a reason?" and ignored the fact I'd done both. Fair's fair.

But if you want to engage, the point I've been making is that the teleportation that went on (and I even admitted there were times it happened) earlier in the series hasn't been anywhere near as blatantly lazy as it has been this time. I even said that I get why they're doing it in that it's the second last season, coming to the end etc. They also had travel segments alongisde that gave Westeros a sense of being a massive and dangerous place, particularly during the War of the Five Kings. I get that we don't need more of this, but I don't recall times where lazy teleportation in earlier seasons caused huge continuity issues that it should at times this season.

Example, Cersei is now allegedly pregnant and her and Dany are waiting on the captured wight proof. It should take months for the lads to get the boat up to Eastwatch, then go North of the Wall, find the dead, capture one, then come back, presumably by sea as well. Particularly the coming back part is going to cause problems - because the Night King isn't going to be sitting on his arse wating for them. The North should be in ruins by the time they get back to Cersei/Dany and then get the armies together. And will Cersei be half way along pregnant at this point? Do you not see the way lazy teleportation here causes serious problems?

Not to mention the giant undead army apparently headed for Eastwatch and in about 5 years they've travelled the distance it takes Jon to travel in 5 in-episode minutes.

Presumably once they've worked their way through the insanely convoluted bull**** plan, Cersei tries to murder everyone, some folks die down south and then everything is sorted out, they'll be able to mosey back up North where the Nights King has been patiently waiting for the mortals to sort out the errands they needed to run and they can get to the fighting.

Gbear

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Well why don't you actually try and work out how long such a journey should take? Dragonstone to Eastwatch is actually a relatively short sea journey. About 1000 miles I think. On a ship like the one they were using, that would take about eight or nine days.

It's more like 2-3000.

CMOTDibbler

Gbear wrote: »

Not to mention the giant undead army apparently headed for Eastwatch and in about 5 years they've travelled the distance it takes Jon to travel in 5 in-episode minutes.

Presumably once they've worked their way through the insanely convoluted bull**** plan, Cersei tries to murder everyone, some folks die down south and then everything is sorted out, they'll be able to mosey back up North where the Nights King has been patiently waiting for the mortals to sort out the errands they needed to run and they can get to the fighting.

Why is everyone assuming the night king can get through the wall? That's a big question that's been asked ever since the first sighting of the wights and the night king. They have never crossed since the wall was built.

Clearly nobody feels that the wall is secure, since magic is believed to be the only thing stopping them. But that hasn't been tested yet, so I don't think we can just assume that they will get through unaided.

CMOTDibbler

Gbear wrote: »

It's more like 2-3000.

No. Maybe 1500 at the most. I use the length of the wall (300 miles) as a scale. Eight or nine days is very conservative, based on a speed of about 4 knots. Six to eight knots can be acheived in favourable winds. We're definitely not talking about months. A couple of weeks at most. But also quite possibly done in ten or eleven days. People forget that ships sail 24 hours a day.

Dave_The_Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Well why don't you actually try and work out how long such a journey should take? Dragonstone to Eastwatch is actually a relatively short sea journey. About 1000 miles I think. On a ship like the one they were using, that would take about eight or nine days.

So no teleportation required and no late babies (if there even is one).

Let's assume it is a thousand miles, which sounds about right. 8/9 days is optimistic depending on the ship type, but it seems about 14 days is about right for a thousand mile journey (from what I've looked up about medeival ships and winter weather etc). Then they'd spend a day or two at Eastwatch preparing. So there's a month right there (including the return journey).

Factoring in journey time on land North of the Wall, probably two weeks to a month, given previous expeditions though it'll depend on the position of the WW army. Obviously ranger expeditions would be going much further but take longer, this one should be shorter. I don't think two months would be unreasonable.

I didn't say the baby would be due, but that it'd be noticable. And the war has just been sitting here with nothing happening the whole time. Seems off to me.

Gbear

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why is everyone assuming the night king can get through the wall? That's a big question that's been asked ever since the first sighting of the wights and the night king. They have never crossed since the wall was built.

Clearly nobody feels that the wall is secure, since magic is believed to be the only thing stopping them. But that hasn't been tested yet, so I don't think we can just assume that they will get through unaided.

Why is everyone assuming he can get through the wall, including Jon Snow?

He knows the Night's King could be a stone's throw away so his plan is to spend 3-6 months bouncing up and down the kingdoms despite the fact that he doesn't believe the wall is going to keep him out.

Why does he believe that to be the case? It's hard to tell. Maybe he's judging the ruthlessness of the Others as evidence they'll make a good fist of it rather than just giving up when they come across their first obstacle.

There's meta-narrative reasons why it has to happen - to facilitate the conflict in the story - that Jon shouldn't know about, but that kind of thing doesn't bother the writers of this show.

If he just legged down to Dany and pleaded with her, and that didn't work so he went back home, then maybe that makes sense. She would've had dragons that maybe could've checked the advance of the army by themselves, and they can travel the distance in maybe 3 or 4 days.
Worst case scenario, he has to go back home without any help to die with his family.

From his perspective it would've been like legging it from Gondor to Rohan to hand deliever a message to Theoden and then hopefully accompany them back to Gondor just in time to lift the siege. That's how close he's intimated the danger is.

Dial Hard

Lads, seriously, way to suck all the joy out of what is quite literally the greatest example of TV programming since the medium's inception.

Yis are actually like the Comic Book Store guy from the Simpsons arguing with his nerd friends.

Tigger

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why is everyone assuming the night king can get through the wall? That's a big question that's been asked ever since the first sighting of the wights and the night king. They have never crossed since the wall was built.

Clearly nobody feels that the wall is secure, since magic is believed to be the only thing stopping them. But that hasn't been tested yet, so I don't think we can just assume that they will get through unaided.

if the sea is frozen cant they just walk round on the ice?
if its not cant the just walk round on the sea bed?

CMOTDibbler

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Let's assume it is a thousand miles, which sounds about right. 8/9 days is optimistic depending on the ship type, but it seems about 14 days is about right for a thousand mile journey (from what I've looked up about medeival ships and winter weather etc). Then they'd spend a day or two at Eastwatch preparing. So there's a month right there (including the return journey).

Factoring in journey time on land North of the Wall, probably two weeks to a month, given previous expeditions though it'll depend on the position of the WW army. Obviously ranger expeditions would be going much further but take longer, this one should be shorter. I don't think two months would be unreasonable.

I didn't say the baby would be due, but that it'd be noticable. And the war has just been sitting here with nothing happening the whole time. Seems off to me.

But it's also conceivable that the journeys could take half that time as well. What I'm saying is that there's no need to impute teleportation or some other nonsensical transport device when the technology of the day can achieve 1000 mile trips in a week. (that's at 6 knots btw).

So yes it could take a month or two, but it could also take less than a month and still be believable. Where's the stretch?

Gbear

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

No. Maybe 1500 at the most. I use the length of the wall (300 miles) as a scale. Eight or nine days is very conservative, based on a speed of about 4 knots. Six to eight knots can be acheived in favourable winds. We're definitely not talking about months. A couple of weeks at most. But also quite possibly done in ten or eleven days. People forget that ships sail 24 hours a day.

GRRM has stated it's about the length of South America.

It's usually given as around 3000 miles.

That is the length of it. That's it. That's what it is. I can't be more explicit.

CMOTDibbler

Tigger wrote: »

if the sea is frozen cant they just walk round on the ice?
if its not cant the just walk round on the sea bed?

They don't appear to walk on or in water. Hardhome showed us that.

Sea freezing hasn't happened yet, else Jon and company couldn't have sailed to Eastwatch.

CMOTDibbler

Gbear wrote: »

GRRM has stated it's about the length of South America.

It's usually given as around 3000 miles.

That is the length of it. That's it. That's what it is. I can't be more explicit.

Westeros would be that length. Yes. There's no contradiction here. Couldn't be clearer.,

Gbear

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Westeros would be that length. Yes. There's no contradiction here. Couldn't be clearer.,

I was looking at Tarth

Apologies.

DM_7

Arya v Littlefinger is interesting. Littlefinger led Arya to certain conclusions but Arya let him. It should be good to see how it plays out.

Paddy Cow

DM_7 wrote: »

Arya v Littlefinger is interesting. Littlefinger led Arya to certain conclusions but Arya let him. It should be good to see how it plays out.

When I was watching the episode I had a feeling that Little Finger knew Arya was watching him and he was leading her. I was p!ssed off that she seemed to be taking the bait but I don't think she's that stupid. One of her first lessons with the waif was the waif telling her that she was a Lord's daughter, just like Arya blah blah. Arya felt sorry for her until she got a smack of the waif's stick and was told the waif was lying.

Sansa knows that Arya is a dangerous killer but doesn't believe that Arya knows how to play the game. This is how LF also sees her and it will be his downfall. He thinks Arya is still the same brat who has issues with Sansa and he is playing on this.

LF has no idea of what Arya is truly capable of. Bran pretty much put out a hit on him when he gave Arya the dagger after telling her he was aware of her list.

Arya is playing the long game. She was Tywin Lannister's cup girl in Harrenhal and The North Remembers.

At approx 3.40 LF tells Twyin that his enemies can be punished after Robb Stark has been defeated. I don't think Arya will let that go.

Mr.Prodston

Something in relation to timelines:

Sam said that Bran was North of the Wall for years. Years. That's multiple years for what's realistically been a few episodes.

So if the show is suggesting that then it's a subtle indication of how time is passing quicker than one might think?

Paddy Cow

Another flashback from Arya Season 1

It would be really disappointing if Arya is as stupid as LF thinks she is.

SK1979

Can't believe no one has mentioned the best bit in that episode.

Thormund asking Jon if he's brought "the big woman"... :-)

OneOfThem Stumbled

• So then I s-said 'You send me to the capital, I tell the mercenary to get my brother, I'll convince him to convince the queen... I mean usurper... to stop the war which she's lost, and help us. She'll do this when we steal a f**king zombie. Steal a f**king zombie and just drop it in the middle of the capital.' I mean those bastar*ds in fleabottom thought they'd seen all when a bell took a trip up the road last season, but they've have not seen a zombie yet. We'll get er... the brotherhood without banners and the... king in the north to steal this zombie. Get Stannis to help too. Sh*t, forgot he's dead. Sure, of course he is, we are sitting in his house aren't we?
• The Brotherhood without Banners are in the Riverlands, Tyrion.
• They've got a wizard, I do believe they can be wever they want to be. The only real fly in this ointment is the rivalry between the two Tully sisters... I mean sisters Stark... over Lord Baelish's smirk
• I think you need to stop drinking as much.

maudgonner

Dothraki Dude: "This man says he is your friend, Khaleesi"
Dany: "He is my friend."
Jorah: "Your Grace."
Dany: "Jon Snow this is Ser Jorah Mormont, an old friend."

Aw, poor Ser Friendzone

Riddle101

SK1979 wrote: »

Can't believe no one has mentioned the best bit in that episode.

Thormund asking Jon if he's brought "the big woman"... :-)

I think the whole sequence at Eastwatch by the Sea was the best part. Jon's meeting with Tormund, the prison cell scene, and then when the gate opens and Jon's crew look behind to one another before heading beyond the wall.

ardinn

blackwhite wrote: »

Syndication isn't something that happens automatically when a series passes a number of episodes - it's where the producers decide to (and are able to find buyers) licence the progam to multiple channels/networks to broadcast re-runs etc. (i.e. like Friends being syndicated on Comedy Central)

It's nothing to do with the volume of episodes produced - it's down to the popularity/marketability of the show, and the expected demand for repeat viewing.

The 100 episode "threshold" is simply a rule of thumb for how likely a show is, or isn't, to be successfully syndicated (and is usually intended for 30-min shows that will be shown in blocks of 2 or 4 episodes at a time).
Something that's been as culturally significant as GOT would not have any problem being syndicated regardless of the number of episodes they ultimately finish on.
TBH - the irregular episode run-times are more likely to cause issues for syndication buyers when it comes to GOT.

A show with a large volume of episodes is more attractive for syndication because it's obviously popular enough to justify a lengthy production run, and the more episodes then the longer the interval between repeats will be - but there's no minimum number of episodes required for syndication if a show is popular enough to justify it.

That said - HBO have mostly avoided traditional syndication for their shows (with a few exceptions like Entourage and Sex and the City) - instead licencing their major hits to subscription-based streaming services like Amazon.

It does actually - Its based on a 20 week run of 1 eisode per day, 5 days a week which apparently is the going golden rule - 20 weeks is a significant number in relation to broadcasting for some reason.

The White Wolf

DM_7 wrote: »

Arya v Littlefinger is interesting. Littlefinger led Arya to certain conclusions but Arya let him. It should be good to see how it plays out.

I'd like to see it play out as a who's playing who type deal. Arya obliterated the Freys in one night and masterfully out maneuvoured the Waif, so I'd be disappointed to have to take this episode literally.

LF is the master puppeteer of course, but the shadows should really belong to Arya at this stage.

CMOTDibbler

The White Wolf wrote: »

I'd like to see it play out as a who's playing who type deal. Arya obliterated the Freys in one night and masterfully out maneuvoured the Waif, so I'd be disappointed to have to take this episode literally.

LF is the master puppeteer of course, but the shadows should really belong to Arya at this stage.

Yeah. At the very least Arya will take it up with Sansa directly. It shouldn't take them long to figure out what Littlefinger is up to.