Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

StringerBell

I'd agree with that also, which is why I would say let the neo nazi people that wanted to protest the democratic decision to remove that offensive statue protest, then remove it.

Don't take the bait, the decision had been made the statue is going. The battle there was won, they have the right to protest the decision, it will have no effect on it.

The Legend Of Kira

tomwaterford wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

No one may of been murdered yet but there has been attempted murders & serious injuries to people who support Trump.




http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/16/this-list-of-attacks-against-conservatives-is-mind-blowing/
" 
[font=Lato, sans-serif]Trump Supporter Beaten, Dragged By Car[/font]
[font=Lato, sans-serif]"[/font]

[font=Lato, sans-serif]http://www.dailywire.com/news/11765/watch-trump-supporter-beaten-dragged-car-frank-camp[/font]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB514ibzZ40

It's only pure luck there wasn't dozens killed today


Will that lad face the death penalty in that state??


The right to peaceful protest is every bit as important as the right to free speech imo

" peaceful protest " I have no problem nor issue with, violently attacking people for the thoughtcrime of having a different opinion like Antifa have done over the last year is different to " peaceful protest " .

tomwaterford

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

" peaceful protest " I have no problem nor issue with, violently attacking people for the thoughtcrime of having a different opinion like Antifa have done over the last year is different to " peaceful protest " .

Whatever antifa have done (and plenty of it was wrong) has been blown outta the water in terms of seriousness by this attempt at mass murder tbh

StringerBell

It isn't helpful to use memes that are factually incorrect to make a point.

frostyjacks

Zero chance of the guy getting a fair trial after all the handwringing from the usual quarters. He's already a terrorist in their eyes.

In the build up to the march, organisers had been adamant that they wanted it to pass off peacefully. It's not their fault all those nutters turned up to protest against free speech and free assembly.

listermint

frostyjacks wrote: »

Zero chance of the guy getting a fair trial after all the handwringing from the usual quarters. He's already a terrorist in their eyes.

In the build up to the march, organisers had been adamant that they wanted it to pass off peacefully. It's not their fault all those nutters turned up to protest against free speech and free assembly.

Fair trial?!

He will get a fair trial but I'm Perplexed by your post it seems to believe he didn't mow down living people in order to injure or kill and then reverse over them.


Can you explain yourself in more detail

Nody

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

" The video evidence all over the net shows Antifa and BLM pepper spraying the nationalists and attacking them. "

Exactly my point when I argue " violence breeds violence " if Antifa didn,t attack anyone or pepper spray anyone yesterday I think its highly unlikely that the driver would of done what they did .

Then you are ok with the 911 attack as well since that was triggered by USA dropping bombs (extreme violence) in Afghanistan, Iraq etc. as well we can take it? After all if it's ok for white nazies to attack innocent American civilians then it has to be equally right for Muslims to do the same for the same reason.

The_Valeyard

Kkk and Antifa are the same in my eyes. Both extremists. If this march had been allowed to pass off peacefully, that would probably be the end of it but now I'd say Kkk, far right, etc will step up a campaign to protest and disrupt marches on the other side. Sort of revenge events.


The guy who plowed the car into protesters Im not sure how he could mount a defence to his behaviour.


Not sure removing statues is a great idea either. General Lee was an important figure in American history who was a brilliant battlefield General often defeating superior forces. His surrender rather than fight an insurgency helped end the war and helped will reconciliation of both sides.


Whole event looked like something from the early civil rights era

frostyjacks

listermint wrote: »

Fair trial?!

He will get a fair trial but I'm Perplexed by your post it seems to believe he didn't mow down living people in order to injure or kill and then reverse over them.


Can you explain yourself in more detail

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

Gbear

Inquitus wrote: »

I would disagree, Nazism and White Supremacism does not deserve a platform, and protesting to deny it one is both reasonable and to be expected in a decent society.

The government getting to arbitrarily decide which ideologies are permitted thankfully doesn't fly in the US.
So long as it's one group protesting another or a private entity choosing to self-censor, that's fine up to a point, but free speech isn't just about what you can get away with legally.
It's also a concept that engenders open debate with the entent of seeking the truth. You can't have that debate if you ban one side from taking part.

However, there were clear issues with allowing the march to take place when there clearly wasn't the amount of policing required.
They seemed incapable of doing anything and I don't blame them. It seems like they were sold down the river.

If people want to hold a march in favour of eating babies then let them at it. It's not an issue. It only becomes one if you allow people to turn up armed or allow a situation where a riot can happen.

Maybe cars shouldn't be free to drive around the place during the event either?

Open carry laws are ****ing insane as well. When there are armed neo-nazi militias parading down your streets maybe you need to realise you can no longer see the wood for the trees.
It's one thing to defend yourself and your property. It's another to actively threaten society.

Achasanai

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

Some people are willing to excuse anything, as long as it fits their side of the political spectrum.

Chester Copperpot

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

Except that is not what happened at all according to those that were there. He sat in the car for a while before accelerating into the crowd at speed. Premeditated murder.

red ears

Arytonblue wrote: »

This is some complete and utter bull****, an organised group of neo-Nazis and white supremacist tw@ts hold a rally in 'protest' of an agreed decision to remove a statue of a major figurehead of the Confederate movement that supported slavery and brutal treatment of blacks and you're shocked that some people decided to counter-protest? And then some bast@ard decided it would be great to mow some peaceful protesters with a car, and you decide this is the time to deflect and divert about Antifa, Obama and Hillary as somehow being responsible for this murderous c@nt killing people? Get real.

I'm so sick and tired of people with 'outrageous' and contrarian opinions pleading the 'right' to free speech and having an opinion when someone challenges them on their bull**** logic and reasoning. Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it sacrosanct, those protestors had every right to object to a bunch of racist, Hitler loving c@nts and there is no 'justification' for the attack on them.

Where did I mention Obama and Hillary? Only attribute to me what I actually said please.

Btw I condemn the guy ramming the car if it was deliberate and I think the identitarian movement should ruthlessly remove anyone with Nazi flags. It should have been a peaceful protest and gathering but anti-fa were going to ensure it was violent.

frostyjacks

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

Don't know any jurisdiction where, to be charged with murder, you need to show it was thought out while the accused was brushing his teeth before breakfast. It certainly is not required when one speaks of malice aforethought and premeditation on this side if the water, and it's perfectly possible to have formed a murderous intent after it's too late to think of avoiding identification of the weapon.

That being said, your "complete accident, just pressed wrong pedal" theory may be spot on, although not obvious from footage apparently taken from within the crowd. We'll wait and see. They had no problem whatsoever finding reverse anyway.

Chester Copperpot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't know any jurisdiction where, to be charged with murder, you need to show it was thought out while the accused was brushing his teeth before breakfast. It certainly is not required when one speaks of malice aforethought and premeditation on this side if the water, and it's perfectly possible to have formed a murderous intent after it's too late to think of avoiding identification of the weapon.

That being said, your "complete accident, just pressed wrong pedal" theory may be spot on, although not obvious from footage apparently taken from within the crowd. We'll wait and see. They had no problem whatsoever finding reverse anyway.

There is footage that shows how far he travelled down to make impact with the crowd. The pushed the wrong pedal claim is rubbish

WinnyThePoo

I actually can't believe a human can somehow justisfy this murder. Ploughing into a group of people is ruthless aggression.

It is act of savage violence. He will receive the full whip of the law. He is no different to ISIS scum.

To be un-pc about it. The dimness on show yesterday. A cesspool of idiocy. A movement of hate. Un-educated morons.

ancapailldorcha

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Violent left and right wing extremists it looks like. These people are all scum.

Enough of the one-liners please.

Samaris

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

If it happens so often that bemused white men are just peacefully sitting in their cars when the sight of oh-god-is-that-...people?!! causes him to turn on the engine, point the car from a closed off section of road towards said people and hit the accelerator as a panicked reaction for a good hundred meters or so to ram through them, and then reverse and speed off ("oh god, I only just escaped with my life!"), maybe white men shouldn't be driving.

That is basically what you're arguing for and it really is complete rubbish. There is a picture of him steering, his bonnet rammed up another car and looking pretty darn chilled about it. Tumtpy-tum, kill some people that don't agree with me.

Would you be so determined that it was all an accident set off by the scary marchers existing in the same (closed off) street if the driver had been Muslim?

Fr Tod Umptious

frostyjacks wrote: »

This is all on Obama and Hiliary. They kept encouraging black power groups to attack American heritage. The Confederate monument...do they think the civil war never happened, that thousands of young men didn't make the ultimate sacrifice for the South? It's disturbing how they're rewriting and airbrushing history. They refer to riots like Watts and Newark as rebellions, when it as mainly looting and wanton violence. God help America if they aren't put back in their place soon.

I read that they are renaming the park that the statue stood in from "Lee Park" to "Emancipation Park"

Now that is just throwing fuel on the fire.

In a devided society taking away a symbol from one group and giving it to the other group is a very risky move.

Oak Park would have been much better.

PopePalpatine

Samaris wrote: »

If it happens so often that bemused white men are just peacefully sitting in their cars when the sight of oh-god-is-that-...people?!! causes him to turn on the engine, point the car from a closed off section of road towards said people and hit the accelerator as a panicked reaction for a good hundred meters or so to ram through them, and then reverse and speed off ("oh god, I only just escaped with my life!"), maybe white men shouldn't be driving.

That is basically what you're arguing for and it really is complete rubbish. There is a picture of him steering, his bonnet rammed up another car and looking pretty darn chilled about it. Tumtpy-tum, kill some people that don't agree with me.

Would you be so determined that it was all an accident set off by the scary marchers existing in the same (closed off) street if the driver had been Muslim?

3/5 of people, according to Reichbart/Daily Stormer/rapists-masquerading-as-relationship-gurus sites. :rolleyes:

Brian?

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

There is zero basis in fact for this opinion. You want to believe it was their own fault they were run down.

BillyBobBS

Horrible act of violence that Trump has rightfully condemned. It's a drop in the ocean compared to Islamic terrorism but could see a race war in the states eventually if this continues.

Gbear

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I read that they are renaming the park that the statue stood in from "Lee Park" to "Emancipation Park"

Now that is just throwing fuel on the fire.

In a devided society taking away a symbol from one group and giving it to the other group is a very risky move.

Oak Park would have been much better.

Surely only if you think that emancipation was a bad thing, no?

I mean, if they'd called it something like "White Privelige Park" or something that generally takes a swipe at white people, Chritianity, the Confederacy, Nationalism or whatever then you might have a point, but it's just renaming it to a unambiguously good thing?

AnGaelach

The car was allegedly registered to the father of an anti-Trump guy who said the car was his on social media. It looks like he ran over the wrong crowd and was probably looking for the "far-right".

A Little Pony

Brian? wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Over the last yearr self appointed Antifa thugs have rioted in streets/attacked women & more-then people on the left react surprised when someone snaps, Lets ask the question if there wasn,t countless Antifa violence over the last year, would that driver of still snapped in Charlottesville ?

Blame the victim well done. A white supremacist drives a car into people protesting a white supremacist march andits their own fault? Ridiculous.

But he didn't blame the victims, what he said is absolutely true. You have had communists causing mayhem in America attacking people, lots of evidence to support it.

WinnyThePoo

AnGaelach wrote: »

The car was allegedly registered to the father of an anti-Trump guy who said the car was his on social media. It looks like he ran over the wrong crowd and was probably looking for the "far-right".

Where are you getting this?.

Doesn't look like it would be to hard to pick out the nazi's, what with their kkk hoods and nazi salutes and militia attire.

Nice though.. Anything to deflect.

Dyr

Gbear wrote: »

Open carry laws are ****ing insane as well. When there are armed neo-nazi militias parading down your streets maybe you need to realise you can no longer see the wood for the trees.
It's one thing to defend yourself and your property. It's another to actively threaten society.

One thing I'll say for these nazi f**ktards is that so far they have better trigger discipline then the black lives matter protests.

AnGaelach

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Where are you getting this.

Doesn't look like it would be to hard to pick out the nazi's, what with their kkk hoods and nazi salutes and militia attire.

Nice though.. Anything to deflect.

The car was registered to a Jerome Vangheluwe whose son Joel has a picture up of the car with the caption "my car when I turn 16" and things like "if only trump was aborted". Seeing as how the police haven't released any details about the driver, presuming it is a "white nationalist" when there's more evidence to the contrary, is what I'd call deflecting.

Edit: Apparently Joel said he sold the car.

WinnyThePoo

AnGaelach wrote: »

The car was registered to a Jerome Vangheluwe whose son Joel has a picture up of the car with the caption "my car when I turn 16" and things like "if only trump was aborted". Seeing as how the police haven't released any details about the driver, presuming it is a "white nationalist" when there's more evidence to the contrary, is what I'd call deflecting.

Edit: Apparently Joel said he sold the car.

Where are you getting this information from?

Anita Blow

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't believe it was his intent when he woke up in the morning. If he was planning on that sort of attack, he probably wouldn't use a nice car registered in his own name. Either use a banger or rent a van. I reckon he took a wrong turn, the mob clocked him as an evil white man, he panicked in fear for his life and pressed the accelerator instead of the break. It happens quite often.

Have genuinely tried to process this post and come up with any sort of decent reply but I can't. I seriously think you need to take a look at yourself when you're justifying murder. Take a look at what happened today (NSFW obviously)

https://streamable.com/e1kwj

https://streamable.com/e2m13

https://streamable.com/5b5gj

I think it's important you see what happened, because you have just excused murder. There is no accidentally driving full force into a crowd of protestors and then full-throttle reversing and fleeing the scene. He took no "wrong turn", he drove down a straight street from a completely empty area into the crowd. We wouldn't offer the same excuse to a Muslim driving down a pedestrian street so it doesn't do to offer the same reprieve to someone just because they're white and it aligns with your political views.

Nody

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Horrible act of violence that Trump has rightfully condemned. It's a drop in the ocean compared to Islamic terrorism but could see a race war in the states eventually if this continues.

You are aware that white supremacists perform over twice the number of terrorist attacks in USA compared to Islamic attacks, right? Or that the white supremacists attacks are twice as likely to have a deadly outcome? And that they are less than 50% as likely to be stopped by the police before they happen?



But hey; why let facts stop your delusions about who performs terrorist attacks in the USA.

Sonics2k

AnGaelach wrote: »

The car was registered to a Jerome Vangheluwe whose son Joel has a picture up of the car with the caption "my car when I turn 16" and things like "if only trump was aborted".

Seeing as how the police haven't released any details about the driver, presuming it is a "white nationalist" when there's more evidence to the contrary, is what I'd call deflecting.

This was actively dismissed. Never trust 4chan as a source of information.

The guy Joel has a similar model car, but that was all. The actual man is called James Alex Field Jnr:

http://fox4kc.com/2017/08/12/986372/

AnGaelach

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Where are you getting this information from?

There's infographs floating around Twitter on it, but he's purported to have sold the car so it's an exercise in futility at this stage.

ricero

By what i have read it seems like the liberal idiots and the scum antifa started the violence yesterday.

Horrible incident and i expect not the last of its kind in america

Samaris

AnGaelach wrote: »

The car was allegedly registered to the father of an anti-Trump guy who said the car was his on social media. It looks like he ran over the wrong crowd and was probably looking for the "far-right".

If you have to jump through several hoops of speculation to reach the convenient answer, it is probably the wrong answer.

AnGaelach

Samaris wrote: »

If you have to jump through several hoops of speculation to reach the convenient answer, it is probably the wrong answer.

Did you not previously slam speculation on terrorism being Islamic in Europe?

Sonics2k

AnGaelach wrote: »

There's infographs floating around Twitter on it, but he's purported to have sold the car so it's an exercise in futility at this stage.

Ah yes, /pol/ the ultimate bastion of fact-finding and sure to be true 'facts'. Let's all remember that it was /pol/ that hunted down innocent people during the Boston Bombing.

Nody

AnGaelach wrote: »

There's infographs floating around Twitter on it, but he's purported to have sold the car so it's an exercise in futility at this stage.

Not only that but they already released the name of the guy and guess what; 4chan had it not only completely wrong but it turns out to be a white male trump supporter who happened to be white suprematist; what a surprise.

AnGaelach

Sonics2k wrote: »

Ah yes, /pol/ the ultimate bastion of fact-finding and sure to be true 'facts'. Let's all remember that it was /pol/ that hunted down innocent people during the Boston Bombing.

I've no idea what you're even talking about, I'm not a 14 year old who skulks around on 4chan. You need to take a breather.

Samaris

AnGaelach wrote: »

Did you not previously slam speculation on terrorism being Islamic in Europe?

??

Probably? I've probably talked about goldfish too. What's that got to do with your rampant speculation that went contrary to all the known facts and required several leaps to avoid information gaps (and ultimately appears to have been wrong).

Plague of whataboutery around this whole business.

AnGaelach

Nody wrote: »

Not only that but they already released the name of the guy and guess what; 4chan had it not only completely wrong but it turns out to be a white male trump supporter who happened to be white suprematist; what a surprise.

My bad then.

Bloom was informed by The AP reporter that the rally was indeed organized by white nationalists. "I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," she said.

"He had an African-American friend so ...," she said before her voice trailed off.

Well clearly it wasn't an act of racism :pac:

Sonics2k

AnGaelach wrote: »

I've no idea what you're even talking about, I'm not a 14 year old who skulks around on 4chan. You need to take a breather.

Ah, so you see something on Twitter and expect it to be true because it suits your narrative, without actually bothering to check the -source- of the information.

I could have sworn 'Fake News' was one of the big complaints of the right and Trump supporters.

AnGaelach

Sonics2k wrote: »

Ah, so you see something on Twitter and expect it to be true because it suits your narrative, without actually bothering to check the -source- of the information.

No aye I should immediately consult the same media that covered up sexual attacks on a thousand women and covered up sex attacks on underage teens at a student summer festival.:rolleyes:

Fr Tod Umptious

Gbear wrote: »

Surely only if you think that emancipation was a bad thing, no?

I mean, if they'd called it something like "White Privelige Park" or something that generally takes a swipe at white people, Chritianity, the Confederacy, Nationalism or whatever then you might have a point, but it's just renaming it to a unambiguously good thing?

The outcome of the civil war was emancipation (even though that was not the aim of the union at the start of the war but that's another debate).

If you are going to rename the park from one side of the civil war to that of the other (in this case the outcome of the other) then it's going to be seen by one side as an attack on their heritage.

A neutral name would have made more sense.

Sonics2k

AnGaelach wrote: »

No aye I should immediately consult the same media that covered up sexual attacks on a thousand women and covered up sex attacks on underage teens at a student summer festival.:rolleyes:

Daft argument. Check all sources, actual news organisations of different backgrounds.

Not some bloke on Twitter.

Samaris

AnGaelach wrote: »

No aye I should immediately consult the same media that covered up sexual attacks on a thousand women and covered up sex attacks on underage teens at a student summer festival.:rolleyes:

Or, y'know, the facts. Which you were completely incorrect about. Look, if the random bit of unsourced information that you're not even sure where you picked it up from (since you don't go on 4chan as you said) both goes against all the known facts of the case AND conveniently supports your viewpoint, for god's sake start treating it with a bit of basic skepticism or you'll spend the next couple of years being run around by nonsense too.

By the way, what did this have to do with my condemning speculation in line with the rules of the forum I suspect you're talking about? Was there a connection or was that autowhataboutery to buy time?

PopePalpatine

ricero wrote: »

By what i have read it seems like the liberal idiots and the scum antifa started the violence yesterday.

Try reading other sources than what /r/The_Dorito_Cult spoonfeeds you.

red ears

ricero wrote: »

By what i have read it seems like the liberal idiots and the scum antifa started the violence yesterday.

Horrible incident and i expect not the last of its kind in america

Everybody knows antifa are up to their necks in violence so when it goes unmentioned by the left and some media it makes people suspicious. Why aren't they reporting honestly?

Samaris

You know, an awful lot of people, when asked by their grandchildren what it was like living in the early-century turmoil and what they did will most likely have to answer "I argued a lot on the internet about it", but there's gonna be a fair amount that may have to honestly say "I found it hilarious and trolled the people worried about it because I hated liberals far more than I hated white supremacists."

Actually not related to the last page or so, just a general observation.

Danzy

Two groups of dicks that didn't have the cop on to stay away from each other and the Police should have kept them separate as well.