Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Akrasia

Hans Bricks wrote: »

It's amazing that the hard left wing in America have now given these obese, gun toting neo nazi scumbags & redneck militias an arguably legitimate excuse outside of promoting outright fascism, to congregate in force for protests now. It doesn't strike me as coincidence that it's being ratcheted up in response to Trump's election either.

Look, the Nazis were having their march. This could have happened in either of two ways.
1. They have a march, they hold up their flaming torches shouting their nazi slogans, intimidating the local minority groups, all the while the police protect them and there are some peaceful protesters but they get to have their speeches calling for a new aryan nation

Do you think this would encourage or discourage the Nazi movement? They would have loved for it to happen this way, this would be their dream, that they could openly flaunt their Nazi ideology and nobody tried to stop them.

2. People tried to shut down their protest. They blockaded their route, prevented their speeches, intimidated the Nazis and brought attention on to who they are, got their faces all over the media, highlighted the fact that the President of the USA seems to sympathise with them, thereby revealing to the nation how much of a serious problem this has become and forcing their representatives to choose a side.

The fact that the nazis and 'alt right' will use the violence as some kind of propaganda victory ignores the fact that if the whole event was peaceful and they managed to hold their full rally, they would have called that a victory too.

The protesters are the people who remember that haunting passage from Martin Niemoller after WW2

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The point is that everyone needs to stand up to these hate groups and prevent them from getting traction. These people want to take power. If they take power, then they will start with their political enemies, and when they are eliminated, there will be nobody left to stand up for the ordinary citizens.

By equivocating the socialists and anti-fascists with the nazis, you are saying that you're fine with Trump or some other fascist who gets into power cracking down on these anti fascists in dawn raids because they are 'violent thugs'

And when he's done that, he'll move on to the trade unionists if they protest or go on strike, and then social democrats will be targetted, and when they're gone, he'll move on to immigrants and minorities, and the opposition will be too weak to stop him, and then before you realise it, they'll be coming after everyone who isn't a Nazi.

All this for statues. Statues that have existed for decades & generations in Southern states and are there so long now that a lot of moderate southerners now view them as part of their "heritage". Don't get me wrong, taking them down from the likes of Baltimore and overtly African American districts is common sense. We can argue til we're blue in the face that it was all about slavery, a lot of other people would argue that it was originally a war of secession and state rights vs federal law and Big Brother up in the North East. Either way this whole thing is inevitably going to antagonize the extreme spectrum of white, christian America.

This whole thing has just devolved to a promotional platform served on a plate to Nazi Nazis and those other insufferable basement dwellers ANTIFA. I really think this whole sudden Confederate statue outrage has just been fuelled and overblown by bored, over sensitive left wing radicals who read too much VICE news. It's more a trendy cause du jour for 2017.

Symbolism is important, when the confederates are allowed to fly their confederate flags and nobody says anything because they have a right to do so, they have a really easy way to guage the strength of their movement. First it's one confederate flag outside someone's house, then the neighbour puts one up, then every house has one except the black family at the end of the road who are forced to move out because the environment has turned hostile, then the local council votes to put up a confederate flag outside the town hall...

So we have two choices, we could call to ban the symbols, which is not good for free speech, or we vote to use public space to display symbols of peace and harmony, and remove any symbolism that represents the ideology that the majority of people are opposed to.

These public monuments are now being removed by elected officials because the majority of the community have had been made aware of them and are disgusted by them.
While this happens, we should celebrate it. It means the Nazis and fascists are still politically weak. If it was the opposite, and if the councils were voting to commission new confederate monuments, then it would be a signal that very dark times are ahead.

Akrasia

Danzy wrote: »

They are not the same, but they are not as different as you make out either.

They are closer to each other than they are to the rest of society.

Neither have anything positive to offer most people, if you are middle class and you have an authoritarian streak, find that you need to control people, and get turned on by the idea of violence then you'll find a home in Antifa or in militant far right, the ideology is 2nd to that in most cases.

That doesn't mean that all those that protest or organize against blatant fascists are assholes, no their movement is being hijacked by people like Antifa.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never actually talked face to face to anyone involved with the AntiFa movement

I'll also guess that you've never talked to anyone who would have been on the nazi march

They are completely different kinds of people.

Lots of trump supporters don't like antifa because antifa call them fascists. Well, when you're going around saying 'make america great again' and 'build the wall' and all the other white nationalist jingoism that Trump campaigned on, then guess what, you're a fascist.

We used to have to dance around that language, but Trump has revealed himself this week (not for the first time, there is nothing new in his support for David Duke and white supremacists and the people he chooses to surround himself with)

Christy42

red ears wrote: »

Anyway back to the progression thing. If alaska has turned into a neo nazi then f**k him. I'm more interested in where the likes of antifa and tearing down statues may lead us. I'm reading plenty about the fear that these nazi types may lead us back to 1940's Germany. Where will the ever increasing intolerant authoritarian left and antifa lead us if that progresses. Did Mao and Stalin not progress from somewhere too? 100 million dead in the 20th century due to that movement and 60 million dead due to nazi idology. I condemn both sides.

Btw ban Nazi flags. Prosecute anyone carrying them.

Right but right now a lot more deaths and violence is coming from the alt right. I have seen little from the extreme left. Some violence at protests and....? Antifa are mainly acting as a response for the extreme right with counter protests or protests against extreme right speakers.

The extreme right has a list of deaths on its hands from this year alone. At what point do you admit we need to focus on the larger threat? OscarBravo had linked an impressive list with links of far right attacks this year. How many people have to die before it is a serious problem instead of simply lumped in with a some relatively minor stuff?


http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/164164615366/you-antifa-guys-are-actually-more-hateful-and


As an addition has Antifa ever advocated a communist government at any point? This one I am asking about as I have not seen it (but could potentially have missed it).

Danzy

Akrasia wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never actually talked face to face to anyone involved with the AntiFa movement

I'll also guess that you've never talked to anyone who would have been on the nazi march

They are completely different kinds of people.

Lots of trump supporters don't like antifa because antifa call them fascists. Well, when you're going around saying 'make america great again' and 'build the wall' and all the other white nationalist jingoism that Trump campaigned on, then guess what, you're a fascist.

We used to have to dance around that language, but Trump has revealed yhimself this week (not for the first time, there is nothing new in his support for David Duke and white supremacists and the people he chooses to surround himself with)

Actually you are incorrect. I have met Antifa members in America and German, I haven't met too many Nazis, they tend to be rare at meetings or campaigns run by left wing movements.

red ears

Christy42 wrote: »

Right but right now a lot more deaths and violence is coming from the alt right. I have seen little from the extreme left. Some violence at protests and....? Antifa are mainly acting as a response for the extreme right with counter protests or protests against extreme right speakers.

The extreme right has a list of deaths on its hands from this year alone. At what point do you admit we need to focus on the larger threat? OscarBravo had linked an impressive list with links of far right attacks this year. How many people have to die before it is a serious problem instead of simply lumped in with a some relatively minor stuff?


http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/164164615366/you-antifa-guys-are-actually-more-hateful-and


As an addition has Antifa ever advocated a communist government at any point? This one I am asking about as I have not seen it (but could potentially have missed it).

Wasn't a politician shot last year by a trump hater and some anti trump guy killed two people last week. And someone was shot in the stomach last year at one of those protests. I can't remember if he died.

20Cent

red ears wrote: »

Wasn't a politician shot last year by a trump hater and some anti trump guy killed two people last week. And someone was shot in the stomach last year at one of those protests. I can't remember if he died.

The guy shot in the stomach was shot by a trump supporter.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/shooting-milo-yiannopoulos-speech-seattle-charges

Carlos Orange

Akrasia wrote: »

Well, when you're going around saying 'make america great again' and 'build the wall' and all the other white nationalist jingoism that Trump campaigned on, then guess what, you're a fascist.
)

Only if you are from an alternative universe where being anti illegal immigration makes you a fascist and people constantly go on about how terrible Germany was in the 30s because of its strict immigration policies.

Christy42

red ears wrote: »

Wasn't a politician shot last year by a trump hater and some anti trump guy killed two people last week. And someone was shot in the stomach last year at one of those protests. I can't remember if he died.

Whataboutery. Yes though I thought he lived (I hope so anyway as I am also unsure). Absolute scumbag and violence should be discouraged. I note that people have lost their jobs over jokingly threatening Trump which is fair enough. We need to be strong on this stuff from both sides. However it is a larger problem on one side and no one seems to be doing anything about it. You have two vicious attacks months apart (not to excuse them, we need to ensure people know it is unacceptable as was expressed at the time by democrat leaders )

The police are claiming that second incident was personal disputes (not sure if you are talking about the same one) but I guess that could be wrong at this early stage.

https://www.google.ie/amp/6abc.com/amp/police-man-killed-by-neighbor-after-dispute/2286340/

Akrasia

Danzy wrote: »

Actually you are incorrect. I have met Antifa members in America and German, I haven't met too many Nazis, they tend to be rare at meetings or campaigns run by left wing movements.

Ok, so when you were talking to the AntiFa members (or more accurately members of autonomous groups associated with the antifa movement) did any of them ever express a political view that indicates that they want to take political power and impose their will on others?

Antifa are explicitly anti authoritarian. Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist and white supremacist

Are they pacifists? No, the movement doesn't have any leadership, there is no committee that discusses tactics or which protests to attend. Antifa is a banner that us used by autonomous activist groups when their purpose is to directly challenge white supremacists and fascists.

The rise of the far right is making Antifa activism more prominent, but also more important.

Saruhashi

Akrasia wrote: »

Antifa are explicitly anti authoritarian. Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist and white supremacist.

Maybe I am wrong here but I thought there were pretty strong links between Antifa groups and support for communism?

Akrasia

psinno wrote: »

Only if you are from an alternative universe where being anti illegal immigration makes you a fascist and people constantly go on about how terrible Germany was in the 30s because of its strict immigration policies.

You can pretend that the 'MAGA' crowd are solely motivated by a desire for a sensible immigration policies.

Trump's campaign and presidency has been almost a textbook example of an ultra right wing authoritarian populist. If you're still a Trump fan after this weekend, then you've got nowhere to hide. You are on the side of fascism. If you have just changed your mind on Trump after this week, then you need to ask yourself, what took you so long? The signs have been there, in broad view.

The fact that the U.S. has it's system of checks and balances to limit executive power is the only reason Trump hasn't been able to achieve any of his horrific policies to the extent that he wants them (yet).

Hitler never had more than about 30% support in Germany. But he was prepared to bully his way into power. Trump has about 30% support, and these are the core of his base that would still support him even if he shot a baby in the face in broad daylight.

Trump is an extremely dangerous man. He almost started a nuclear war last week, and that's not even the main thing we're talking about this week.

red ears

Saruhashi wrote: »

I'm getting a bad feeling here that criticism of left wing violence is being seen as support for right wing violence.

That was what the reaction to Trump showed this week anyway. It was like how dare he even mention the hooded black clad group armed with bats, rocks and pepper spray.

Akrasia

Saruhashi wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong here but I thought there were pretty strong links between Antifa groups and support for communism?

Anyone can be involved in the Antifa movement, as long as they are against white supremacism and fascism. That is the start, the middle and the end of the antifa movement. It only exists to fight white supremacists and fascists.

Most of the people who march under antifa are also activists for whatever ideology they have, many are anarchists or libertarian socialists. Many are social democrats, some are communists of the various hues but usually the more authoritarian communists will march under the banner of their own party, because their political action is aimed at building a movement that eventually puts their party into power. Antifa are not interested in power, they only exist to oppose fascists.

johnnyskeleton

Christy42 wrote: »

Whataboutery.

Mod Note:

You specifically asked about deaths by left wing activists and when one was referred to you call it Whataboutery. Please read the charter before posting again.

Saruhashi

According to CNN the terror attack in Charlottesville may have inspired the attack in Barcelona yesterday.

@ 0:25 There will be questions about copycats. There will be questions if what happened in Barcelona is at all a copycat version of what happened in Charlottesville...

So, if I'm getting this right these guys are genuinely wondering if the white supremacist terrorists in the US may have actually inspired ISIS to use vehicles as part of their terror attacks in Europe?

I'm starting to think all this political debate might not be worth the effort.

Danzy

Saruhashi wrote: »

According to CNN the terror attack in Charlottesville may have inspired the attack in Barcelona yesterday.

@ 0:25 There will be questions about copycats. There will be questions if what happened in Barcelona is at all a copycat version of what happened in Charlottesville...

So, if I'm getting this right these guys are genuinely wondering if the white supremacist terrorists in the US may have actually inspired ISIS to use vehicles as part of their terror attacks in Europe?

I'm starting to think all this political debate might not be worth the effort.

Deeply strange.

marcus001

Saruhashi wrote: »

According to CNN the terror attack in Charlottesville may have inspired the attack in Barcelona yesterday.

@ 0:25 There will be questions about copycats. There will be questions if what happened in Barcelona is at all a copycat version of what happened in Charlottesville...

So, if I'm getting this right these guys are genuinely wondering if the white supremacist terrorists in the US may have actually inspired ISIS to use vehicles as part of their terror attacks in Europe?

I'm starting to think all this political debate might not be worth the effort.

It's highly likely that Wolf is not ignorant, he was just looking for an excuse to tie this attack in with the running story. There's nothing the media loves more than a series of terrorist attacks to keep you glued to the screen.

The Legend Of Kira

Akrasia wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

They are not the same, but they are not as different as you make out either.

They are closer to each other than they are to the rest of society.

Neither have anything positive to offer most people, if you are middle class and you have an authoritarian streak, find that you need to control people, and get turned on by the idea of violence then you'll find a home in Antifa or in militant far right, the ideology is 2nd to that in most cases.

That doesn't mean that all those that protest or organize against blatant fascists are assholes, no their movement is being hijacked by people like Antifa.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you've never actually talked face to face to anyone involved with the AntiFa movement

I'll also guess that you've never talked to anyone who would have been on the nazi march

They are completely different kinds of people.

Lots of trump supporters don't like antifa because antifa call them fascists. Well, when you're going around saying 'make america great again' and 'build the wall' and all the other white nationalist jingoism that Trump campaigned on, then guess what, you're a fascist.

We used to have to dance around that language, but Trump has revealed himself this week (not for the first time, there is nothing new in his support for David Duke and white supremacists and the people he chooses to surround himself with)

Wrong, Trump supporters don,t like Antifa labeling them all Trump supporters as " fascists " in an effort to demonize them then violently attacking them after demonizing them.

""  Lots of trump supporters don't like antifa because antifa call them fascists. Well, when you're going around saying 'make america great again' and 'build the wall' and all the other white nationalist jingoism that Trump campaigned on, then guess what, you're a fascist. ""

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The slogan "" build the wall "" is in reference to supporting tighter/more secure borders, are you trying to says its somehow "" fascist ""  to want your countries borders to be as secure as they possibly can ?  [/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If so I would point out many other countries secure their borders too also.[/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ( Exhibit 1 ) the Indian/Pakistan Border.[/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]( Exhibit 2 ) The Border between North & South Korea.[/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]

marcus001

I would question the logic of society allowing the same people who assault fascists to decide who is a fascist.

WinnyThePoo

marcus001 wrote: »

I would question the logic of society allowing the same people who assault fascists to decide who is a fascist.

Emm. We can you use our own eyes. The white supremacists and neo Nazi's are fascists. There is no argument against that.

marcus001

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Emm. We can you use our own eyes. The white supremacists and neo Nazi's are fascists. There is no argument against that.

Right but it doesn't end there does it? What about the Trump supporters getting their heads smashed in at rallies a year ago before the alt-right really came out of the woodwork?

If it wasn't for people further to the right of Trump coming to the fore now I suspect Antifa would go "find" some "fascists" or failing that invent them and go kick the **** out of them.

WinnyThePoo

marcus001 wrote: »

Right but it doesn't end there does it? What about the Trump supporters getting their heads smashed in at rallies a year ago before the alt-right really came out of the woodwork?

If it wasn't for people further to the right of Trump coming to the fore now I suspect Antifa would go "find" some "fascists" or failing that invent them and go kick the **** out of them.

Sure. Imagining things Is fun.

Antifa are a reaction to fascists. Reaction, not cause.

Sofiztikated

marcus001 wrote: »

Right but it doesn't end there does it? What about the Trump supporters getting their heads smashed in at rallies a year ago before the alt-right really came out of the woodwork?

If it wasn't for people further to the right of Trump coming to the fore now I suspect Antifa would go "find" some "fascists" or failing that invent them and go kick the **** out of them.

Was that before or after Trump offered to pay legal fees to people willing to "knock the crap" out of protestors?

The Legend Of Kira

Akrasia wrote: »

Danzy wrote: »

Actually you are incorrect. I have met Antifa members in America and German,  I haven't met too many Nazis, they tend to be rare at meetings or campaigns run by left wing movements.

Ok, so when you were talking to the AntiFa members (or more accurately members of autonomous groups associated with the antifa movement) did any of them ever express a political view that indicates that they want to take political power and impose their will on others?

Antifa are explicitly anti authoritarian. Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist and white supremacist

Are they pacifists? No, the movement doesn't have any leadership, there is no committee that discusses tactics or which protests to attend. Antifa is a banner that us used by autonomous activist groups when their purpose is to directly challenge white supremacists and fascists.

The rise of the far right is making Antifa activism more prominent, but also more important.

"" Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist "" 

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The phrase "" direct action "" is a code for unprovoked violence/ a code to riot in the streets, which they done at Trumps Inaugration + at the recent G20 summit,  they view lots of people as " fascist " who aren,t " fascist " such as Milo + Ann Coulter,  + if anyone says anything tighter borders etc they view that as " fascist "  too .[/font]

marcus001

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure. Imagining things Is fun.

Antifa are a reaction to fascists. Reaction, not cause.

The more radical the left gets the more radical right gets the more radical the left gets and on and on and on...

Akrasia

marcus001 wrote: »

The more radical the left gets the more radical right gets the more radical the left gets and on and on and on...

Nazis are about as radical as it gets

They already idolise Hitler

Carlos Orange

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Antifa are a reaction to fascists. Reaction, not cause.

In other news chickens claim they are a reaction to eggs and not the cause as sometimes claimed. Fowl experts remain divided but note chickens and eggs are often associated with self sustaining systems where one reinforces the existence of the other.

Wildlife Actor

Saruhashi wrote: »

According to CNN the terror attack in Charlottesville may have inspired the attack in Barcelona yesterday.

@ 0:25 There will be questions about copycats. There will be questions if what happened in Barcelona is at all a copycat version of what happened in Charlottesville...

So, if I'm getting this right these guys are genuinely wondering if the white supremacist terrorists in the US may have actually inspired ISIS to use vehicles as part of their terror attacks in Europe?

I'm starting to think all this political debate might not be worth the effort.

Ah now, that's more than a stretch and CNN are only feeding the Trump troll with it. ISIS were first in the pitch with car ramming.

WinnyThePoo

marcus001 wrote: »

The more radical the left gets the more radical right gets the more radical the left gets and on and on and on...

Are you really trying to argue the left is responsible for the neo Nazi's and white supremacist?.
...
Nope. The people who proudly wave swastikas and wear white cloaks are wholly and only responsible for themselves.

Carlos Orange

Love nor Money wrote: »

Ah now, that's more than a stretch and CNN are only feeding the Trump troll with it. ISIS were first in the pitch with car ramming.

I think car/vehicle attacks have been happening in Israel/Palestine for about a decade.

Akrasia

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

"" Their tactics are to use direct action to protest people and events that they view as fascist "" 

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The phrase "" direct action "" is a code for unprovoked violence/ a code to riot in the streets, which they done at Trumps Inaugration + at the recent G20 summit,  they view lots of people as " fascist " who aren,t " fascist " such as Milo + Ann Coulter,  + if anyone says anything tighter borders etc they view that as " fascist "  too .[/font]

No, Direct action is the name for civil disobedience and activism that takes action to prevent something rather than just protesting and hoping that the state will listen and do what is needed.

Examples of direct action include blockading the oil pipeline, damaging war planes at civilian airports, blocking streets to prevent meetings like the G20 from running smoothly.

The civil rights movement relied on direct action to end segregation and to fight for equality in the US. So did the sufferagettes fighting for the vote to be extended to women.

Direct action often results in clashes with the police, but then, the police, as agents of the state, are often on the wrong side of the argument (eg in the war against Iraq, the Irish police protected the illegal use of Shannon to transport weapons soldiers and even to facilitate 'extraordinary rendition')

Danzy

marcus001 wrote: »

Right but it doesn't end there does it? What about the Trump supporters getting their heads smashed in at rallies a year ago before the alt-right really came out of the woodwork?

If it wasn't for people further to the right of Trump coming to the fore now I suspect Antifa would go "find" some "fascists" or failing that invent them and go kick the **** out of them.

This is the concern.

The list of people that can be labeled fascist is very large and not just confined to the right.

The amount of times I have seen Swampies call SF'ers fascists, Workers Party people talk about Labour as neo-fascists and on and on.

When you have a deranged priest class like that, they'll keep looking for sinners to castigate and it will be the nearest at hand that they go for.

At least when these whack jobs are focusing on each other they are not coming after ordinary people.

Maybe this is better described as being beyond Left and right but about those who are political cultists. It is a minority of both sides of the political spectrum.

The Legend Of Kira

Akrasia wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Wrong, Trump supporters don,t like Antifa labeling them all Trump supporters as " fascists " in an effort to demonize them then violently attacking them after demonizing them.

I'm going to distinguish between trump voters, and trump supporters.

Not all the people who voted for Trump are 'alt right' (a euphamism for fascists)

But the trump supporters, the people who go to his rallies and laugh and cheer when he says the media are all 'fake news' and that most mexican immigrants are rapists, and all muslims are potential terrorists and that the police should beat up protesters and his own supporters should beat up protesters and that he supported torture and murdering the families of suspected terrorists, and when he praises totalitarian leaders like Erdogan, Duterte, Vladimir Putin.....

yeah, these trump supporters are great people who only want to live in peace and harmony, and not return to the 'good old days' of white supremacists running the country for the benefit of the white 'race'

Trump has different supporters from different backgrounds/ different class/different race etc here are some of them.

https://twitter.com/TheLeftIsRacist/status/897052131747876864

https://twitter.com/_Makada_/status/898345348053073922

https://twitter.com/sweetatertot2/status/898272984124735488
People support him for various reasons be it his stance on Immigration or his stance for lower taxes, not all his supporters support him for one dimensional reasons .

Help!!!!

Brian? wrote: »

Do you disagree with the conclusion drawn?

Yes because theres a video of the white supremacists standing on the hill being hit by all sorts thrown by BLM & Antifa

20Cent

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

People support him for various reasons be it his stance on Immigration or his stance for lower taxes, not all his supporters support him for one dimensional reasons .

Who's saying all trump supporters are nazi's?
No one.
Deflects from the rights nazi problem though.

How come they aren't weeding out the nazi's in their midst and disassociating themselves from them?

Like when all muslims are expected to defeat ISIS.

Billy86

marcus001 wrote: »

Right but it doesn't end there does it? What about the Trump supporters getting their heads smashed in at rallies a year ago before the alt-right really came out of the woodwork?

If it wasn't for people further to the right of Trump coming to the fore now I suspect Antifa would go "find" some "fascists" or failing that invent them and go kick the **** out of them.

The alt right predate Trump's bid for the presidency by years and have been a central part of it pretty much from day one, so I'm not sure where you're getting this notion from.

Chips Lovell

Locked for review

Chips Lovell

Reopening. Lots of cards and deleted posts for people who've clearly ignored repeated reminders to a.) read the forum charter or b.) not drag in off-topic incidents or c.) generalisations such as equating all Trump supporters with Nazis.

We'll move on to thread banning people if they can't have reasonable debate on the subject.

Thanks

marcus001

Billy86 wrote: »

The alt right predate Trump's bid for the presidency by years and have been a central part of it pretty much from day one, so I'm not sure where you're getting this notion from.

Yes but they've only come out of the woodwork since he won. Before Trump they never held meetings in public on a scale they do now.

The_Valeyard

marcus001 wrote: »

Yes but they've only come out of the woodwork since he won. Before Trump they never held meetings in public on a scale they do now.

The Tea Party movement?

marcus001

20Cent wrote: »

Who's saying all trump supporters are nazi's?
No one.
Deflects from the rights nazi problem though.

How come they aren't weeding out the nazi's in their midst and disassociating themselves from them?

Like when all muslims are expected to defeat ISIS.

Akrasia is implying that people who "support" Trump do so for racial reasons.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104415302#post104415302

marcus001

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The Tea Party movement?

The Tea Party is not the alt-right

wes

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The Tea Party movement?

The whole Birther thing that Trump wouldn't shut up about for nearly 8 years.

For Reals

red ears wrote: »

That is how Nazism progressed. How did the gulags progress? I think antifa are not good either. They appear to have a very authoritarian streak. I don't like where they may lead us too either. We need to keep an eye on the Nazi elements of the WN movement, the violent elements of BLM and the authoritarian elements of Anti-fa. Stop giving antifa a free pass.

Violence is wrong and should be punished. I don't see the 'free pass' angle.

Complaining about the ALT right Nazis is not giving the KKK a 'free pass'.

Violence is wrong.

Now people from all walks commit acts of violence. The Antifa commit acts of violence, the white supremacist ALT right commit acts of violence.

Now, white supremacists/ALT Right main goal is to put white people above all others. Their problem seems to be we are getting too much equality. They believe they are the masters and all other ethnic groups should bow down.

Violence is wrong and people on the far left sometimes commit acts of violence.
That okay?

marcus001 wrote: »

The Tea Party is not the alt-right

It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

marcus001

For Reals wrote: »

It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

Where are you getting this from?

The Tea Party was not hijacked by the alt-right. The alt-right is a completely different thing.

I think you're just making stuff up as you go along because you appear to have no understanding of what you're talking about.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

Now, white supremacists/ALT Right main goal is to put white people above all others. Their problem seems to be we are getting too much equality. They believe they are the masters and all other ethnic groups should bow down.

Violence is wrong and people on the far left sometimes commit acts of violence.
That okay?



It was hijacked by and gave rise to the 'ALT-Right'.

Trump built his campaign on fooling people who felt hard done by and playing the racist right like puppets. He continues to do so.

Who is we??

Help!!!!

Is it OK that there are groups taking enjoyment from burning the stars & stripes?
What would we in Ireland do if there were people burning the tri-colour?

For Reals

marcus001 wrote: »

Where are you getting this from?

The Tea Party was not hijacked by the alt-right. The alt-right is a completely different thing.

I think you're just making stuff up as you go along because you appear to have no understanding of what you're talking about.

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?

Help!!!! wrote: »

Is it OK that there are groups taking enjoyment from burning the stars & stripes?
What would we in Ireland do if there were people burning the tri-colour?

Yes it is.
Depends on their reasoning I suppose.

Help!!!! wrote: »

Who is we??

You, me, them, everybody, everybody...

marcus001

For Reals wrote: »

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?

Thanks for the confirmation that you don't know what you're talking about. The alt-right is characterised primarily by white identity politics and open advocacy for white interests. No matter how much you may think the Tea Party are racist or outside of the mainstream they're not underground like the alt-right is. Rand Paul is in the Tea Party. Paul Ryan was in the Tea Party. Donald Trump isn't even part of the alt-right. I don't think you appreciate just how out there their views are.

Help!!!!

For Reals wrote: »

The Tea Party was a movement born from within Republicanism, unhappy with the leadership for not being conservative and Republican enough, seeking smaller government, limiting government power was a big part of that. In short they didn't like the way things were run. This is the essence of the ALT-Right, it's in the 'ALT'. Trumps backroom boys seized upon this. Trump was best positioned to do so, being the outsider, not being a politician.
Tell me where I'm making stuff up?



Yes it is.
Depends on their reasoning I suppose.

The KKK were the military arm of the Democratic party now the party of African Americans. Ever wonder why African Americans are told to be the victim all the time? Slavery/white privilege etc? So they dont better themselves, live in ghettos, keep voting Democrat. Keep telling people they are victims & they will start believing it. There is a higher percentage of an African American being a distant relation of a slave owner than a white person. Why? Because a very small percentage of white people owned slaves but a larger percentage of the African American owned slaves

People died for that flag so no its not