Right-wing vs. Left-wing Clashes [MOD NOTE POST #1]

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

" 
Large numbers arrived to this rally armed with weapons. "
When Antifa + communists turn up armed with weapons + in some cases with guns in the past  also too to violently oppose people they disagree with, then its [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]inevitable some people on the other side may turn up with weapons too if they feel they re gonna come under attack from masked thugs to defend themselves, if political violence wasn,t normalised over the past year would those people of still turned up with weapons yesterday ?[/font]

You're actually incredible.

Me: It wasn't a peaceful assembly because a lot of people were armed.

You: But, But, But whatabout the "antifa"...

Me: It wasn't about a statue, there was no posters about a statue and plenty of nazi posters and imagery.

You: *Crickets*.

What I find actually incredible is when it comes to political extremists is some people only want to talk about political extremists on the right, but ignore & fail to acknowledge political extremists on the left , my point stands when left wing extremists turn up armed with weapons to violently attack people , those they plan to attack may turn up with weapons too also.

The Legend Of Kira

I note there is planned " free speech rally " in Boston next week .



There is already some people loosely thrown out around labels & calling for political violence next week, these are dark days indeed when its normalised to call for violent opposition to someone expressing an alternative political view .

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

What I find actually incredible is when it comes to political extremists is some people only want to talk about political extremists on the right, but ignore & fail to acknowledge political extremists on the left , my point stands when left wing extremists turn up armed with weapons to violently attack people , those they plan to attack may turn up with weapons too also.

My point stands you're an expert in whataboutery and victim-blaming as demonstrated from this twitter post you made:

I should of phrased it a better way I will admit, what I said in another post yesterday arguing my point in a better way .


" what some people are trying to say normalisation of political violence is stupid & leads down a dangerous path in the longer term, in the last year political violence against Trump supporters has being normalised people have physically attacked for supporting Trump/wearing Trump t shirts/ physically attacked  for wanting to go hear pro trump speaker at their local college/local uni/ pro Trump speakers have being targeted with violence + riots in the streets to prevent their speaking engagement going ahead.
Everytime there is a pro Trump rally or a pro Trump speaker at a public speaking event there is a call by Antifa groups on social media for " Direct Action against it " which is a code for political violence  against people you disagree with, " anyone who calls for political violence or anyone who takes part in political violence has helped + played his/her part in the normalisation of political violence " , those who oppose Trump have two options open to them ( 1 ) continue on this current path of normalised political violence which leads to dangerous consequences or ( 2 ) engage Trump supporters in open public rational debate , I think we all know which of the two is the safer more reasonable option in the longer term . "  

The Legend Of Kira

When political violence is normalised even African Americans who support Trump are weary about violent opposition  because of their political views.

wonderfullife

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

I should of phrased it a better way I will admit, what I said in another post yesterday arguing my point in a better way .

Nah after reading your timeline I see you phrased it just how you meant it.

Absolutely chock full of retweeting racists, white supremacists, bigots, white nationalists, anti-Islamists, conspiracy theorists, believing in some massive George Soros led conspiracy, Deep State-ism, anti-Clinton-ism while maintaining "i'm personally none of the above".

I don't understand the subversive nature of what people like you do. You create multiple facebook accounts all devoted to Japanese anime to hide behind anonymity so you can post questions to real people, TD's and the like, on facebook.

You expect them to give you transparency while you hide behind some cloak of perceived anonymity. You retweet racists and bigots and hide behind disclaimers.

You are part of the problem that led to that poor girl dying. Yeah, you. See, the thing is I guarantee your hate-filled twitter timeline would look very different without the cloak of anonymity. I guarantee if your employer (if you have one) saw your twitter timeline you'd be fired, if not I guarantee nobody sane in this country would employ you.

I suppose I'm getting a yellow card for this post but if even 1% of it gets through to you, it'll be worthwhile.

For the record, I'm anonymous on this forum (just like you) and on twitter. The difference is I'm not retweeting white nationalists, white supremacists, white power barbies, neo-nazi's, anti-islamists and hateful bigots. You are.

If it were up to me alone people would lose their right to anonymity for posting half of the sickening stuff you're a fan of.

wonderfullife

ps. do yourself a favour and read this twitter thread.

https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/896326301832925184

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

Nah after reading your timeline I see you phrased it just how you meant it.

Absolutely chock full of retweeting racists, white supremacists, bigots, white nationalists, anti-Islamists, conspiracy theorists, believing in some massive George Soros led conspiracy, Deep State-ism, anti-Clinton-ism while maintaining "i'm personally none of the above".

I don't understand the subversive nature of what people like you do. You create multiple facebook accounts all devoted to Japanese anime to hide behind anonymity so you can post questions to real people, TD's and the like, on facebook.

You expect them to give you transparency while you hide behind some cloak of perceived anonymity. You retweet racists and bigots and hide behind disclaimers.

You are part of the problem that led to that poor girl dying. Yeah, you. See, the thing is I guarantee your hate-filled twitter timeline would look very different without the cloak of anonymity. I guarantee if your employer (if you have one) saw your twitter timeline you'd be fired, if not I guarantee nobody sane in this country would employ you.

I suppose I'm getting a yellow card for this post but if even 1% of it gets through to you, it'll be worthwhile.

For the record, I'm anonymous on this forum (just like you) and on twitter. The difference is I'm not retweeting white nationalists, white supremacists, white power barbies, neo-nazi's, anti-islamists and hateful bigots. You are.

If it were up to me alone people would lose their right to anonymity for posting half of the sickening stuff you're a fan of.

A general rule on twitter is retweets Don't nessarily mean agreement , which people that you claim are " racist " etc that i retweeted ? As for " multiple Facebook accounts " i have 1 Facebook account ' in the past someone confused me with a guy who likes anime + politically active , it happens people confuse others online with someone else.

wonderfullife

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

A general rule on twitter is retweets Don't nessarily mean agreement , which people that you claim are " racist " etc that i retweeted ? As for " multiple Facebook accounts " i have 1 Facebook account ' in the past someone confused me with a guy who likes anime + politically active , it happens people confuse others online with someone else.

Nah. You confused me for a fool.

If you're gonna lie to an insomniac with not much of a life himself and too much time on their hands overnight, just know that the insomniac will catch you out. You've posted screenshots to that twitter timeline of you posting politically on facebook under multiple separate accounts associated with Japanese anime, Paul Kihn, Kira, Light Yagimi etc etc

Listen, if I'm getting banned from Politics I'm trying to do it for a good reason. I'm not trying to shame you or embarrass you and I certainly doubt I can change your mind on your hate-filled opinions. You're perfectly entitled to believe in white supremacy it's a free country.

But ask yourself one question - would you post all you post if you weren't anonymous? If the answer is truly "yes I would" then fine, good luck to you. If the answer is "no, I wouldn't because I'd face serious repercussions at home/work/college" then maybe step back and consider not doing it.

HEATHER HEYER.

That's her name.

She died protesting people like you. She died protesting against hate, against division, against bigotry, against racism, against xenophobia, against the idea that we aren't all just fcuking people on this earth for a limited time and can't we all just fcuking get along as equals.

Nobody is born with these views that whites are the best, immigrants are bad, one religion is worse than another (or better). Hate is taught and learned. If she died for anything it was for that message. Incidentally, for the record, I had so much time on my hands that I counted 7 people you have retweeted in the past 12 months who were physically at that rally spreading their nazi hate.

Take a long look in the mirror.

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

Nah. You confused me for a fool.

If you're gonna lie to an insomniac with not much of a life himself and too much time on their hands overnight, just know that the insomniac will catch you out.

You've posted screenshots to that twitter timeline of you posting politically on facebook under multiple separate accounts associated with Japanese anime, Paul Kihn, Kira, Light Yagimi etc etc

Listen, if I'm getting banned from Politics I'm trying to do it for a good reason. I'm not trying to shame you or embarrass you and I certainly doubt I can change your mind on your hate-filled opinions. You're perfectly entitled to believe in white supremacy it's a free country.

But ask yourself one question - would you post all you post if you weren't anonymous? If the answer is truly "yes I would" then fine, good luck to you. If the answer is "no, I wouldn't because I'd face serious repercussions at home/work/college" then maybe step back and consider not doing it.

HEATHER HEYER.

That's her name.

Heather Heyer. She died protesting people like you. She died protesting against hate, against division, against bigotry, against racism, against xenophobia, against the idea that we aren't all just fcuking people on this earth for a limited time and can't we all just fcuking get along as equals.

Nobody is born with these views that whites are the best, immigrants are bad, one religion is worse than another (or better). Hate is taught and learned.

If she died for anything it was for that message. Incidentally, for the record, I had so much time on my hands that I counted 7 people you have retweeted in the past 12 months who were physically at that rally spreading their nazi hate.

Take a long look in the mirror.





As i said before " antifa + kkk i equally detest both " white supremacy is bs ' as i asked you " what people you claim are racist that i retweeted "? As Facebook changed their settings regarding names etc i changed name on account but still have 1 current profile, " immigrants are bad " you purposely conflate support for controlled immigration with dislike of people .

wonderfullife

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

As i said before " antifa + kkk i equally detest both " white supremacy is bs ' as i asked you " what people you claim are racist that i retweeted "? As Facebook changed their settings regarding names etc i changed name on account but still have 1 current profile, " immigrants are bad " you purposely conflate support for controlled immigration with dislike of people .

"White supremacy is BS"

You retweet on a daily basis and have retweeted the following:

Tim Treadstone (Baked Alaska) - white supremacist
Brittany Pettibone - https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brittany_Pettibone - white supremacist
Richard Spencer - neo-nazi/scumbag
Jared Taylor - White supremacist/dirtbag
Stefan Molyneaux - White supremacist/all-around-dirtbag
Mike Cernovich - Rape apologist/lesser-scale-dirtbag

I'll give you that the last 2 named are not as awful human beings as the first four, but either way for someone who thinks "white supremacy is BS" you sure as hell like to retweet and spread the message of white supremacy.

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

"White supremacy is BS"

You retweet on a daily basis and have retweeted the following:

Tim Treadstone (Baked Alaska) - white supremacist
Brittany Pettibone - https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brittany_Pettibone - white supremacist
Richard Spencer - neo-nazi/scumbag
Jared Taylor - White supremacist/dirtbag
Stefan Molyneaux - White supremacist/all-around-dirtbag
Mike Cernovich - Rape apologist/lesser-scale-dirtbag

I'll give you that the last 2 named are not as awful human beings as the first four, but either way for someone who thinks "white supremacy is BS" you sure as hell like to retweet and spread the message of white supremacy.

I retweeted 1 tweet from Spencer back when i 1st heard of him which i recall was a tweet naming people who rioted on trumps inauguration day ` you failed to mention + ignored the context of the tweet i retweeted if you're gonna say "you retweeted this or that " at least include the context of the retweet ' like many on twitter if i find the context of someones post interesting i retweet it ´ Spencer i took a proper look at Which he is extreme and Would disagree with ' as for the rest please include the context of the tweets i retweeted ' as i follow 1000+ profiles worldwide some tweets i and some i miss ; regarding the other 6 people you referred to im more familiar with some of them then others 'over the last year id became familiar with Stefan the most yes He's right wing I've heard out some of his podcasts i haven't heard him directioly advocate "white supremacy "etc, include the context of tweets from him i retweeted : i also retweet Dinesh d Souza which you failed to mention as it Doesn't suit your narrative .

wonderfullife

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

i also retweet Dinesh d Souza which you failed to mention as it Doesn't suit your narrative .

I was being kind to you leaving him off the list.

Dinesh is a disciple of the late (not-so-great) William Buckley who was famous in his lifetime mainly for being a Grade-A racist and supporter of McCarthyism, segregation and yeah, white supremacy.

As for Dinesh himself, he's a convicted felon, a money launderer and a wife-beater. I can link you to his ex-wife's testimony about him beating the sh1t out of her if you wish.

If that wasn't enough, Dinesh is on record multiple times in homophobic rants, thinks gay people are mentally ill, argued Barack Obama was born outside America and thinks "racism is not a real thing".

I've had it with the likes of you hiding behind disclaimers "retweet doesn't mean endorsement". BS. It sure as hell means you're spreading the hate and that hate ends up getting people killed.

Manic Moran

wonderfullife wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

" 
Me: It wasn't a peaceful assembly because a lot of people were armed.

How many people were hurt due to the presence of firearms? Both sides had armed personnel, and they are not unheard of (from either side) at other rallies either. There is something of a deterrence effect, one does not ordinarily get physical with someone with a gun.

The problem was a guy in a car. Nothing unusual there.

Manic Moran

Deleted double-post

BillyBobBS

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

When political violence is normalised even African Americans who support Trump are weary about violent opposition  because of their political views.

Violence against those who the liberals don't agree with seems to be acceptable. Sad.

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

I was being kind to you leaving him off the list.

Dinesh is a disciple of the late (not-so-great) William Buckley who was famous in his lifetime mainly for being a Grade-A racist and supporter of McCarthyism, segregation and yeah, white supremacy.

As for Dinesh himself, he's a convicted felon, a money launderer and a wife-beater. I can link you to his ex-wife's testimony about him beating the sh1t out of her if you wish.

If that wasn't enough, Dinesh is on record multiple times in homophobic rants, thinks gay people are mentally ill, argued Barack Obama was born outside America and thinks "racism is not a real thing".

I can continue beating the proverbial crap out of you on this thread if you wish or you could consider stop spreading hate, stop spreading white supremacy 

I've had it with the likes of you hiding behind disclaimers "retweet doesn't mean endorsement". BS. It sure as hell means you're spreading the hate and that hate ends up getting people killed.

                                                                               If you can point out where I have tried to spread " white supremacy " or where I tried argue for it please point it out in something I said in a quote otherwise = crying wolf .

wonderfullife

Manic Moran wrote: »

How many people were hurt due to the presence of firearms? Both sides had armed personnel, and they are not unheard of (from either side) at other rallies either. There is something of a deterrence effect, one does not ordinarily get physical with someone with a gun.

The problem was a guy in a car. Nothing unusual there.

I've no idea if anyone was shot. What I did see was a bunch of white supremacists beat the living crap out of a black guy, in a 6-on-1 attack with weapons. What I did see was a white supremacist drive his car into a crowd killing one and seriously injuring 35 more.

Don't even get me started on the guns issue, I think the 2nd Amendment is absolute garbage, a complete anachronism. You can spare me your usual statistics about neighbourhoods being safer with more guns in them or the other whataboutisms like "knife crime is higher in the UK".

I'm really not in the mood for any BS. Just hanging around until my yellow/red card is issued and hope I've got through to even one person about using anonymity to spread hatred.

wonderfullife

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

If you can point out where I have tried to spread " white supremacy " or where I tried argue for it please point it out in something I said in a quote otherwise = crying wolf .

Let me say this very slowly for you:

When you constantly retweet the views of white supremacists, racists, bigots and neo-nazi's, you are implicitly spreading their message of hate.

I've actually got 0.01% degree of respect for Richard Spencer. He's a neo-nazi and a horrible human being but fair play to him he uses his real name to spread his hate. Employers know what they're getting with him. Neighbours know what they're getting if he moves into their area.

It's people like you who are the bigger issue because you hide behind anonymity to be the megaphone amplifying white supremacists message of hatred. You're the foot-solider with your retweets.

Without people like you, their message of hate would go nowhere. Instead, it gets disseminated and ends up in the head of James Alex Fields and all he needs is a car, while the rest of you minions get to wash your hands of it with "who me? What did I do! Retweet doesn't equal endorsement!".

Pathetic.

The Legend Of Kira

wonderfullife wrote: »

Let me say this very slowly for you:

When you constantly retweet the views of white supremacists, racists, bigots and neo-nazi's, you are implicitly spreading their message of hate.

I've actually got 0.01% degree of respect for Richard Spencer. He's a neo-nazi and a horrible human being but fair play to him he uses his real name to spread his hate. Employers know what they're getting with him. Neighbours know what they're getting if he moves into their area.

It's people like you who are the bigger issue because you hide behind anonymity to be the megaphone amplifying white supremacists message of hatred. You're the foot-solider with your retweets.

Without people like you, their message of hate would go nowhere. Instead, it gets disseminated and ends up in the head of James Alex Fields and all he needs is a car, while the rest of you minions get to wash your hands of it with "who me? What did I do! Retweet doesn't equal endorsement!".

Pathetic.

If i retweeted tweets with context directly promoting "white supremacy "etc you Would have a point ' to which i Don't recall doing : once again focus on the context of retweets and what they actually said : as for spencer 1 retweet i recall regarding inauguration day violence : like a lot of people i only heard about spencer after he was punched back in January , have you ever considered certain actions of left extremists backfire and ends up creating more publicity for the likes of Spencer ? Which in turn increases his public profile even more.

B0jangles

Retweeting neo-nazis and white supremacists is a FAR more direct and efficient way of raising their profile than punching them.

Samaris

While I agree with your general thrust of argument, wonderfullife, and I certainly agree that retweeting the views of racist bigots and then hiding behind innocent "I only retweeted it" is a coward's argument, I for one am uneasy about linking a twitter profile with identifying information in it. Even if they do retweet white supremacist nonsense, it's not right to essentially out them on an anonymous internet forum.

I think most of us have seen their level of argument and deflection (and I was never particularly convinced by the claims of neutrality, all things considered!), but linking to RL info in any way is not a good thing to do - and referencing ways to identify them gives me a deeply uneasy feeling.

Asking as fellow poster and commentator if you would consider removing the twitter link.

wonderfullife

Samaris wrote: »

While I agree with your general thrust of argument, wonderfullife, and I certainly agree that retweeting the views of racist bigots and then hiding behind innocent "I only retweeted it" is a coward's argument, I for one am uneasy about linking a twitter profile with identifying information in it. Even if they do retweet white supremacist nonsense, it's not right to essentially out them on an anonymous internet forum.

I think most of us have seen their level of argument and deflection (and I was never particularly convinced by the claims of neutrality, all things considered!), but linking to RL info in any way is not a good thing to do - and referencing ways to identify them gives me a deeply uneasy feeling.

Asking as fellow poster and commentator if you would consider removing the twitter link.

His twitter profile is publicly accessible and he has posted from his twitter profile on to Boards in the past. It's not my problem what he posts on his public twitter feed.

Look I'll delete whatever out of respect for you but he quoted me on lots of the posts so he'll have to do the same.

Edit - I removed every single link to his twitter and location but (again) it was a public twitter profile I didn't have to Sherlock Holmes to find it.

Tony EH

Samaris wrote: »

Yes, sometimes it should be, when symbols of its power are left to become symbols of a new generation with the same ideals as the old one. That is why the statues of dictators are famously toppled when the regime falls. It is a symbol of a new dawn without the evils of the past.

It should not be forgotten, quite, but there is a clear line between remembering the past and idolising it.

Personally, I think the statute should remain, although my politics would be different from those rallying around it and those of a certain mindset on this thread who most are familiar with. I find it particularly sad that it's a kicking off point for two groups of political idealogues.

When you start whitewashing the historical record, nobody wins.

Plus, and this is the important part, who gets to be the arbiter of what statutes stand and which ones fall? And what should be the meter for that arbitration?

There are statues to Arthur Harris and Winston Churchill in Britain, one of whom murdered hundreds of thousands while in charge of Bomber Command and the other who had very dubious views on races oither than his own. Should they be toppled? There's a monument to the extermination of Dacia standing in Trajan's forum in Rome. Should we knock that down?

Where does one draw the ine and who gets to draw that line?

Also, Lee wasn't a dictator. He was one of the greatest military leaders of the time and recognised as such by both sides. He, no doubt, held some views we would consider awful today. But, he was very much a product of his time and his views would have been shared by plenty of his enemies as aswell.

Statues act as reminders. They don't have to be an idolisation or a celebration and sometimes it's good for a nation to reminded of its dubious past as to not forget it, in favour of some happy clappy myth. Something which far too many Americans, in particular, are want to do.

wonderfullife

I'm not going to post in here for a while. I suppose it was a bad idea watching videos of the car ploughing into that poor girl so I might have been too emotional. I think the overall point I made about anonymity and spreading hatred was a fair one but on the other hand I could have made the point without directing it at Kira.

Mr. Kira sorry.

I won't post again in the thread. Good luck.

CosmicJay

Having read this entire thread from the start, I note numerous posters who posted in recent Islamic Terror attack threads and kept saying;

'How do we know the terrorist was a muslim'

'Asian suspect'

'How do we know its terror related'

'Don't jump to conclusions the facts aren't in'

These same people have posted in this thread going WHITESUPREMACIST RACIST TRUMP KKK TERRORIST REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Its basically all the same sh*ite at this stage.

super_furry

Well you see, we know the terrorist in this case was a Neo-Nazi alt-righter because he was marching with the Neo-Nazi alt-right in their Neo-Nazi alt-right march. It's pretty straight-forward actually.

CosmicJay

super_furry wrote: »

Well you see, we know the terrorist in this case was a Neo-Nazi alt-righter because he was marching with the Neo-Nazi alt-right in their Neo-Nazi alt-right march. It's pretty straight-forward actually.

Ah so its pretty straight forward when a bomb blast or a ram or knife attack happens in London its a muslim.

Right, no other normal people were in Charlottsville on that day, gotcha.

Danzy

B0jangles wrote: »

Retweeting neo-nazis and white supremacists is a FAR more direct and efficient way of raising their profile than punching them.

People like Spencer have a tiny Social Media and a tiny band of activists behind them, tiny even by the standards of a small country like Ireland, never mind America with its 300 + million.

That punch made him known to hundreds of millions, it was the best day he ever had, just so some college kid could get their rocks off playing revolution.

Maybe the person who did it was a supporter of Spencer, that wouldn't surprise one either.

The Legend Of Kira

B0jangles wrote: »

Retweeting neo-nazis and white supremacists is a FAR more direct and efficient way of raising their profile than punching them.

What gets someone more publicity attacking them thus giving them media coverage or 1 retweet about inauguration day violence ? Ill frame things in another way in the past some people involved with smaller poiitical parties got attacked + meetings disrupted ' the end result was instead of a speaking to people at the venue they got national media coverage interviwed on multiple radio stations thus increasing his public profile even more .

super_furry

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ah so its pretty straight forward when a bomb blast or a ram or knife attack happens in London its a muslim.

Right, no other normal people were in Charlottsville on that day, gotcha.

If a terrorist is pictured marching alongside alt-right Neo-Nazis and then proceeds to drive a car into a crowd of people protesting this alt-right Neo-Nazi march, then, yes - it's pretty straight forward.

Not sure what you're having trouble understanding really.

The Legend Of Kira

Danzy wrote: »

People like Spencer have a tiny Social Media and a tiny band of activists behind them, tiny even by the standards of a small country like Ireland, never mind America with its 300 + million.

That punch made him known to hundreds of millions, it was the best day he ever had, just so some college kid could get their rocks off playing revolution.

Maybe the person who did it was a supporter of Spencer, that wouldn't surprise one either.

+1 i only heard of the fellow back in January after it was in the news. To use a phrase controversy creates interest ; when something is of interest it gets reported on in the media .

CosmicJay

super_furry wrote: »

If a terrorist is pictured marching alongside alt-right Neo-Nazis and then proceeds to drive a car into a crowd of people protesting this alt-right Neo-Nazi march, then, yes - it's pretty straight forward.

Not sure what you're having trouble understanding really.

Yeah but see most of those photos weren't out at the time people in this thread had their first spaz.

Look all I'm saying is that you're just as bad as the guy who goes DAMN MUSLIMS whenever something blows up.

super_furry

CosmicJay wrote: »

Yeah but see most of those photos weren't out at the time people in this thread had their first spaz.

Look all I'm saying is that you're just as bad as the guy who goes DAMN MUSLIMS whenever something blows up.

Nope, you're still not making sense I'm afraid. You see a group of people protesting a particular alt-right Neo-Nazi march were targeted and murdered specifically by someone who was involved in this alt-right Neo-Nazi march. He was then apprehended minutes later and it was clear exactly what had happened.

This isn't something that happened in isolation and at no stage did it ever look like it was anything other than a targeted terrorist attack, targeting a specific group of people in a political attack.

Contrast that with the May incident in Times Square where a car drove into a crowd of people and one died. The instant reaction there was "blame the muslims", before police confirmed it wasn't a terrorist attack. At no stage was there ever any indication that there was a political or religious motive behind it.

Ronaldinho

Since when did counter-protests become a thing?

I don't have any time for nazism or 'white supremacists' but in the interests of freedom of speech I would let them have their march.

Let the Antifa do theirs the next day/week.

All of these showdowns between the two groups are just sowing even more polarization. I fear more and more people are going to be sucked into either one of the two extremes.

Danzy

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Since when did counter-protests become a thing?

I don't have any time for nazism or 'white supremacists' but in the interests of freedom of speech I would let them have their march.

Let the Antifa do theirs the next day/week.

All of these showdowns between the two groups are just sowing even more polarization. I fear more and more people are going to be sucked into either one of the two extremes.

Uniforms, flags, slogans, radical ideologies, them against the world, against evil, close knit groups that use their underground status as a bonding agent, a belief in the righteousness of their violence, violence as sanctifying, both sides admire people and carry symbols etc representing the most murderous regimes in history, both are obsessed with dictating to others what is right or wrong, having control over others.

Pick your tyrant side as they battle each other and do their level best to help each other grow by bigging up their opponents.

CosmicJay

super_furry wrote: »

Nope, you're still not making sense I'm afraid. You see a group of people protesting a particular alt-right Neo-Nazi march were targeted and murdered specifically by someone who was involved in this alt-right Neo-Nazi march. He was then apprehended minutes later and it was clear exactly what had happened.

This isn't something that happened in isolation and at no stage did it ever look like it was anything other than a targeted terrorist attack, targeting a specific group of people in a political attack.

Contrast that with the May incident in Times Square where a car drove into a crowd of people and one died. The instant reaction there was "blame the muslims", before police confirmed it wasn't a terrorist attack. At no stage was there ever any indication that there was a political or religious motive behind it.

Ah I think you just have yourself so idealogically invested in this you don't realise you're deluded.

You would have to prove intent for murder, as has been stated by the police they think that he was scared, you can see damage on the vehicle as it begins to run at protestors so most likely he was mobbed before the video kicks in.

The photos of him being involved in the rally only came out long after people like yourself had already cast their die.

So what I am asking is, when very little evidence had come out about this incident.

Why are you better than the other side when you do exactly the same thing?

Jump to conclusions when very little evidence is out.

You reference the times square accident, people jumped to conclusions just as you had jumped to conclusions.

Someone ploughed into some communists at a protest rally and you instantly call him a white neo Nazi supremacist, just like everyone calling that times square drive a muslim terrorist.

You are no different no matter how much you lie to yourself.

freedominacup

Inquitus wrote: »

I would disagree, Nazism and White Supremacism does not deserve a platform, and protesting to deny it one is both reasonable and to be expected in a decent society.

You probably consider yourself to have a liberal outlook.

super_furry

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ah I think you just have yourself so idealogically invested in this you don't realise you're deluded.

Hahaha, brilliant. You honestly, HONESTLY, see no difference between a car being driven deliberately and purposefully into a group of counter protesters after a heated day of rhetoric in a political flashpoint and a car veering off the road going into a random crowd of people?

No-one needed to wait and see what happened in Charlottesville. From the moment the car was driven into a crowded group of anti-fascist protesters and then reversed and attempted to flee, it was obvious what happened.

Danzy

freedominacup wrote: »

You probably consider yourself to have a liberal outlook.

The problems with No Platforming is it helps the other side grow and secondly the people usually behind it are often fans of ideologies and movements that have killed as many as the other side have, in some cases more, though not as clinically brutal.

Who could argue against No Platforming Communists, Maoists, Stalinists, Trots etc, the same logic applies, over a 100 million starved or shot in 30 years in just 2 countries alone. I don't support it though.

Another one is that the people who are doing it tend to be very righteous and absolutist in their thinking, and this is a real problem in America today, the list of people who are deemed fascist or racist etc is growing by the day and often for the most innocuous of reasons.

It is a powerful tool but it is used and abused by people who have more in common with John McQuaid than any one else.

One set of authoritarian control freaks over another and they both want conformity to their beliefs.

Billy Mays

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ah I think you just have yourself so idealogically invested in this you don't realise you're deluded.

You would have to prove intent for murder, as has been stated by the police they think that he was scared, you can see damage on the vehicle as it begins to run at protestors so most likely he was mobbed before the video kicks in.

The photos of him being involved in the rally only came out long after people like yourself had already cast their die.

So what I am asking is, when very little evidence had come out about this incident.

Why are you better than the other side when you do exactly the same thing?

Jump to conclusions when very little evidence is out.

You reference the times square accident, people jumped to conclusions just as you had jumped to conclusions.

Someone ploughed into some communists at a protest rally and you instantly call him a white neo Nazi supremacist, just like everyone calling that times square drive a muslim terrorist.

You are no different no matter how much you lie to yourself.

People who don't want Nazi and white supremacist scum marching through their town = communists

gussieg

What is so scary is how many people seem to be altright too and that's not alright.
Please for the love of God do not bring fascism and hatred back into fashion. We are a nation of survivors of hatred racism and oppression. Don't let what was done to us be done to others.
Wake up and somebody get those clowns out of office in the White House before they inadvertently or otherwise cause the apocalypse.

hatrickpatrick

wonderfullife wrote: »

Deep State-ism, anti-Clinton-ism while maintaining "i'm personally none of the above".

None of your post was addressed to me, but I want to jump in regardless:

I'd be fundamentally opposed to Clinton and her pseudo-liberal DINO ideology, does that make me a right wing fascist? I despise her because she's not left enough, specifically on human rights issues.

See, the thing is I guarantee your hate-filled twitter timeline would look very different without the cloak of anonymity. I guarantee if your employer (if you have one) saw your twitter timeline you'd be fired, if not I guarantee nobody sane in this country would employ you.

And you think that this is a good thing? That people can be persecuted and censored for their political beliefs?

What happens when your and my liberal ideology is in the minority, and we get punished for holding firm to it by being fired? It's not ok to fire somebody because of their politics, end of story. That constitutes an infringement upon freedom of opinion and freedom of expression.

If it were up to me alone people would lose their right to anonymity for posting half of the sickening stuff you're a fan of.

And who gets to decide what counts as an unacceptable opinion? You personally? The majority? Who? Because for the bajillionth time, there was a time in the very recent past in Ireland when we had institutions which locked up women for being too sexually expressive. Do you think this was ok, because the prevailing societal opinion at the time was social conservatism?

BabyCheeses

Billy Mays wrote: »

People who don't want Nazi and white supremacist scum marching through their town = communists

It's there go to at the moment. It's easy to spot their supporters, they all use the same language even when pretending to be neutral.

I'm sure many people in this thread have seen this already but it looks like our careful drivers are a fan of joining antifa to cause violence. No wonder they think everything is a false flag, they think others are just like them.

https://bbs.dailystormer.com/t/why-arent-we-infiltrating-antifa/128764

super_furry

BabyCheeses wrote: »

It's there go to at the moment. It's easy to spot their supporters, they all use the same language even when pretending to be neutral.

That and they've moved on from denying that they support white supremacists Nazis to asking, "well what's wrong with that?"

jooksavage

Presumably all those guys in their polo shirts think they look like modern storm troopers. They actually looked like chartered members of the Kip Appreciation Society.

super_furry

http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id6332

"Internet hosting provider GoDaddy will ban The Daily Stormer after the prominent neo-Nazi website published an article that attacked the victim of Saturday's car-ramming attack at a protest in Charlottesville."

Again I see no problem with this. Having the right to 'free speech' does not mean you get to spread racism and hatred through someone else private platform.

BillyBobBS

gussieg wrote: »

What is so scary is how many people seem to be altright too and that's not alright.
Please for the love of God do not bring fascism and hatred back into fashion. We are a nation of survivors of hatred racism and oppression. Don't let what was done to us be done to others.
Wake up and somebody get those clowns out of office in the White House before they inadvertently or otherwise cause the apocalypse.

"Somebody get these clowns out of office"??

The president of the United States was democratically elected. He's going nowhere. I actually think people with opinions like that are as bad a problem as the "alt right" or the neo nazi's tbh...

Wanderer78

BillyBobBS wrote:

The president of the United States was democratically elected. He's going nowhere. I actually think people with opinions like that are as bad a problem as the "alt right" or the neo nazi's tbh...

I'd agree with Joe stigliz regarding the American political system, I.e. 'One dollar, one vote'!

Tony EH

super_furry wrote: »

http://bnonews.com/news/index.php/news/id6332

"Internet hosting provider GoDaddy will ban The Daily Stormer after the prominent neo-Nazi website published an article that attacked the victim of Saturday's car-ramming attack at a protest in Charlottesville."

Again I see no problem with this. Having the right to 'free speech' does not mean you get to spread racism and hatred through someone else private platform.

...Heather Heyer a "fat, childless 32-year-old slut." Sunday's article was widely condemned on social media and the link received more than 156,000 shares on Facebook alone.

"Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness," Anglin wrote. "A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value. .. Childless women are black hole vortexes of public money and energy."

I believe that Free speech should be absolute. But, when your idea of free speech includes the disgusting things like the above you'll need to accept the consequences readily and I support GoDaddy's action.

Scumbag level opinion.

BillyBobBS

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd agree with Joe stigliz regarding the American political system, I.e. 'One dollar, one vote'!

I'd agree with the American constitution myself, one citizen one vote.

When people are more focused on being outraged at Trump because he supposedly didn't condemn this asshole enough (even though he was very clear is his condemnation) than being outraged at how a terrorist killed someone with a car then you know the agenda is strong.