Vegan diet for chlosterol and musculoskeletal problems?

subscriber

Hey,

I am a 29 try old male who's turning 30 next month and have already had quiet a number of health issues in my life all of which still effect me.

Over the past 5 years I have had tonnes of musculoskeletal issues in line of two lower back surgeries for disc collapse, two more for a lateral tear in my hip and a fifth surgery for an impingement of my right shoulder. On top of all that, I've had issues with low mood / anxiety and also high chlosterol which I have been told by doctor is hereditary. No DNA test was ever done to confirm this was indeed hereditary which makes me question it. (I am on daily medication for this). I am a normal weight for my height and age, have smoked on and off over the years but not currently smoking.

So..... I can't help but wonder what I am doing wrong and how I have this amount of health issues at the age of not even 30. Could it be diet?

I've always maintained what I thought was a healthy diet which meant avoidance of fast food, processed food and instant foods but at the same time have always had a high meat intake in my diet. Given its been mostly white meats and avoided red meat but still without a doubt, meat with every single meal.

I obviously cannot say for certain that diet has impacted on my health directly or not but I would be very interested to see what impact a vagan based diet could potentially do for me.... For all health issues involved...

I have met a few people over the last few years that have switched to a vagan based diet but after approx 2 months had seen issues with energy, dizzyness, general health decline. They obviously didn't manage the diet / lifestyle very well and that's why I am wondering how difficult it is to manage it correctly and what exactly is needed in line of supplementation on top of the food intake?

Thanks for any input....

Mellor

You said you are normal weight, but how is your physical condition? I'd be quicker to attribute the musculoskeletal issues to muscular weakness rather than diet.

What's your exact height/weight?
Could you run a 5km? How fast?
How many push ups, pull ups can you do? Squats, deadlifts, etc
Can you touch your toes?

subscriber

Mellor wrote: »

You said you are normal weight, but how is your physical condition? I'd be quicker to attribute the musculoskeletal issues to muscular weakness rather than diet.

What's your exact height/weight?
Could you run a 5km? How fast?
How many push ups, pull ups can you do? Squats, deadlifts, etc
Can you touch your toes?

Thanks for your reply.

Height: 5 foot 10 inches
Weight: 78KG
Current Level of Activity: Cycling to and from work
Level of activity prior to all injuries: Competitive Triathlete
Can I touch my toes: Easily. Flexibility has always been exceptionally good.

Mellor

subscriber wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

Height: 5 foot 10 inches
Weight: 78KG
Current Level of Activity: Cycling to and from work
Level of activity prior to all injuries: Competitive Triathlete
Can I touch my toes: Easily. Flexibility has always been exceptionally good.

What about deadlifts? Or any glute exercise.

Obviously take any online diagnosis with a huge pinch of salt. But due to prolonged time spent in hip flexion, cycling is often associate with hip/pelvic imbalances. Specifically tight hip flexors and lumbar extensor and weak hip extensors and abdominals. Often called lower cross syndrome.
It's quite likely that such an imbalances would co tribute to the lower back and hip issues you mentioned.

It may or may not the case, but worth checking out. Especially if you've any degree of anterior pelvic tilt.

mathie

subscriber wrote: »

I've always maintained what I thought was a healthy diet which meant avoidance of fast food, processed food and instant foods but at the same time have always had a high meat intake in my diet. Given its been mostly white meats and avoided red meat but still without a doubt, meat with every single meal.

I switched to a vegan diet after I was told my cholesterol was borderline high.
I was shocked to be honest as I'd always thought I'd been healthy.
I didn't just cut meat and dairy though I cut out all the rubbish. I was wanted to eat "unprocessed" (whatever that is ) ... wholefoods. That is the crux of my diet now. If it comes in a packet I rarely eat it.

My cholesterol went from 4.1 to 2.5 within a year. My GP told me I should be telling people what to eat

subscriber wrote: »

I obviously cannot say for certain that diet has impacted on my health directly or not but I would be very interested to see what impact a vagan based diet could potentially do for me.... For all health issues involved...

I have met a few people over the last few years that have switched to a vagan based diet but after approx 2 months had seen issues with energy, dizzyness, general health decline. They obviously didn't manage the diet / lifestyle very well and that's why I am wondering how difficult it is to manage it correctly and what exactly is needed in line of supplementation on top of the food intake?

Thanks for any input....

You have to be very careful on a vegan diet.
The lack of energy is because ... people don't get enough energy
They don't consume enough calories. On a vegan diet you can eat what seems like a lot more and still be the same amount of calories. A calorie counter app can guide you there.
I'm over two years vegan and feel great.
I cycle and use a lot of metrics and can see my power has increased over the years I turned vegan.
The only supplement I take is Vit b12.

j@utis

mathie, you mean LDL chol, not total chol went down because total cholesterol under 5.0 is normal?

I'm very skeptical cholesterol is general because according to statistics half of people with high cholesterol never experience heart problems and half of people with low cholesterol face heart disease at some point of their lives.

Re: OP, I don't think that going vegan would solve your problems. Eating right meat in the right way, i.e. with loads of non-starchy vegetables is very nutritious and healthy.

p.s. I choose beef or lamb over chicken because those two are grass-fed here in Ireland and chickens are battery raised, fed hell knows what and never seen the sunlight.

subscriber

mathie wrote: »

I switched to a vegan diet after I was told my cholesterol was borderline high.
I was shocked to be honest as I'd always thought I'd been healthy.
I didn't just cut meat and dairy though I cut out all the rubbish. I was wanted to eat "unprocessed" (whatever that is ) ... wholefoods. That is the crux of my diet now. If it comes in a packet I rarely eat it.

My cholesterol went from 4.1 to 2.5 within a year. My GP told me I should be telling people what to eat




You have to be very careful on a vegan diet.
The lack of energy is because ... people don't get enough energy
They don't consume enough calories. On a vegan diet you can eat what seems like a lot more and still be the same amount of calories. A calorie counter app can guide you there.
I'm over two years vegan and feel great.
I cycle and use a lot of metrics and can see my power has increased over the years I turned vegan.
The only supplement I take is Vit b12.

With the exception of getting the cholesterol lower, what other benefits did you notice to make you feel better?

mathie

subscriber wrote: »

With the exception of getting the cholesterol lower, what other benefits did you notice to make you feel better?

Well it was a combination of cutting the junk (biscuits, cakes, crisps) as well as the meat and dairy so it'd be hard to attribute to just going vegan but I felt a lot better after eating. I would have felt bloated and sluggish after meals, I'd get the 3pm slump and all that.
Now I feel a lot better after eating, I don't feel bloated or tierd and I'd put that down to the fiber content. Most people don't eat enough fiber and on a vegan diet you get a lot. You're kept moving

Maybe give it a go for a while but make sure you consume enough calories

subscriber

mathie wrote: »

Well it was a combination of cutting the junk (biscuits, cakes, crisps) as well as the meat and dairy so it'd be hard to attribute to just going vegan but I felt a lot better after eating. I would have felt bloated and sluggish after meals, I'd get the 3pm slump and all that.
Now I feel a lot better after eating, I don't feel bloated or tierd and I'd put that down to the fiber content. Most people don't eat enough fiber and on a vegan diet you get a lot. You're kept moving

Maybe give it a go for a while but make sure you consume enough calories

I have already started to significantly reduce my meat and diary intake as of roughly one week ago. Now maybe its my immigration or maybe its not but there
was two days that I didn`t consume any meat and I thought I felt a bit lacking in energy. That being said, i had chick peas with each of my meals but only half a tin with each meal so possibly I needed more. Since then, on days where I haven`t consumed meat or dairy I have added a lot of flaffel to my meals and found that I was perfectly fine for energy despite walking over 10km a day at work so it may just be a case of trial and error over coming weeks / months....

mathie

subscriber wrote: »

I have already started to significantly reduce my meat and diary intake as of roughly one week ago. Now maybe its my immigration or maybe its not but there
was two days that I didn`t consume any meat and I thought I felt a bit lacking in energy. That being said, i had chick peas with each of my meals but only half a tin with each meal so possibly I needed more. Since then, on days where I haven`t consumed meat or dairy I have added a lot of flaffel to my meals and found that I was perfectly fine for energy despite walking over 10km a day at work so it may just be a case of trial and error over coming weeks / months....

Track what you eat with My Fitness Pal then you can see if you're getting enough overall calories and if your macro (protein / carbs / fats) breakdown is what it should be.

I phased meat and dairy out over a period of a few months. I cycle a lot and I don't feel like I lack any energy. In fact according to the data from my training I'm getting stronger in spite of / because of the plant based diet.

Best of luck.

s7ryf3925pivug

Vitamin b12 supplementation is necessary on a vegan diet. It's advisable to supplement DHA and beta alanine as well. None of these are easily available in plant form.

Plant sources of iron are absorbed less efficiently than animal sources. They are absorbed better when consumed with vitamin c. Craving tomatoes might indicate low iron. (Concentrated tomatoes are a great source of iron btw.)

Yes a vegan diet will be effective for reducing cholesterol. Yes you can be fit and healthy on a vegan diet, and you can build muscle effectively. This is demonstrated by vegan athletes at all levels.

High protein requirements are difficult to satisfy. There's a misconception that particular amino acids are the problem, but really it's just raw protein that is more difficult to satisfy. Vegan foods that are high in protein include seitan and tempeh. Tempeh is fermented soy and is highly nutritious. Tofu is also high in protein, but it's nutrients otherwise are poorly absorbed. There are serious health and ethical questions about GM soy, so gm free soy products are highly preferable.

It's easy to screw up a vegan diet, much less convenient, you'll be gouged by most restaurants, and have barely any options in them.

Satiety is an issue on vegan/vegetarian diets. You don't feel full in the same way.

Apart from a vegan diet, shortening, margarine and partially hydrogenated fats should be avoided entirely. They are sources of trans fats which are dangerous in any quantity. Don't eat any of them at all, especially if you have concerns about cholesterol. Chipper chips are generally cooked in shortening. Margarine or shortening is used in a lot of baked goods.

subscriber

Two weeks now having massively reduced by meat and dairy intake and I feel fantastic so far. First week was certainly a bit of an adjustment with feeling a bit of fatigue and lack of energy but for the past week now I feel absolutely great.

I wouldn`t go anywhere as far to say that I am a vegan but I went from having dairy daily and meat between 3/4 times daily down to practically no dairy and meat only 3 times a week total. Substituted meat with alternative protein for the remainder of the meals which included a variety of mixed beans / tofu and Quorn.

I`m aware that I won`t see any noticeable results in my cholesterol levels or musculoskeletal health for a long time yet but I am very intrigued to see over time if it does make any impact. One thing that I have definitely noticed is that in only 2 weeks, I`ve lost roughly 6/7 pounds in weight which has been fantastic. ...And that has been on diet alone. No exercise. Amazing...although I`d say that will only continue to a point and then level out. No complaints though.

Cholesterol levels don`t change over night unfortunately so I`m planning to get my bloods done again early December to see where things are at then if my LDL (bad) cholesterol has lowered to recommended levels, I may be able to come off the statin medications which would be fantastic. Far to young to be on statins at the age of 30 anyhow. I guess that paleo caveman heavy meat based diet one year ago didn`t do my LDL levels any good.....Let`s try this plant based thing instead!!!!!!!!!

jive

Alfonso Helpful Hair wrote: »

Satiety is an issue on vegan/vegetarian diets. You don't feel full in the same way.

Great post but would disagree with this; if anything it's difficult to take in enough calories due to the quantities of low calorie high volume foods in a vegan diet.

subscriber

For the moment at least .... I do not need to worry about my iorn levels as the last time I had my cholesterol checked, 2 months ago, my iorn levels showed as raised far above normal levels.. A component of the blood called transference saturation and one or two other things.....My GP encouraged me to actually try lower my iorn intake over the next few months...

ford2600

http://sigmanutrition.com/episode133/

That's a good podcast from an expert on how to train as a vegan/vegetarian.

On cholesterol chosing any kind of diet to reduce Total cholesterol always seems a bit odd to me.

Cholesterol is a nutrient yet is viewed as a toxic substance. It is so vital for life, all our cells need it, that our body's have developed the mechanisms to produce most of what we need. When you eat a lot, your body makes less, when you don't eat any your body makes more.

There is no good, bad or total. There is just one cholesterol molecule; C27H46O.

It is carried around in blood on board various different types of lipoproteins; the profile of these lipoproteins will change depending on diet, environment, genetics etc.

People try to reduce cholesterol levels in blood to reduce risk of heart disease; heart disease is a disease of Western Civilsation. This brilliant paper from the 1960's examines Myocardial Infarction in Japanese Americans, African Americans and native Japenese and Africans. In the native populations, in spite of every type of variance in diet, Myocardial Infarction is almost non existant.
http://www.ajconline.org/article/0002-9149(64)90219-X/abstract


This is seen in native populations all over the world.

As a disease of western civilisation the cure is probably to be found in
*not smoking
* whole food diet
* better social network
* better sleep
* better mental health
* stress management


There is no tablet for all that though

s7ryf3925pivug

jive wrote: »

Great post but would disagree with this; if anything it's difficult to take in enough calories due to the quantities of low calorie high volume foods in a vegan diet.

Probably varies with the diet. What I described is common enough though. It's my personal experience also. My wife and I started eating chicken again recently. We'd both been vegetarian for years. First thing we noticed was how full we felt from it so quickly.

You can eat high calorie vegan food. Lots of Indian curries are high in fat, and can be made vegan. [I've found coconut oil is better in curry than ghee, incidentally.]

We didn't have any health problems or anything from being vegetarian.

subscriber

Slightly off topic from being vegan or eating vegan, but in relation to cholesterol issues, I think the jury is very much out on coconut oil and whether it`s a help or a hindrance for cholesterol I believe.

From what I understand, it is loaded in saturated fat which would traditionally be a no no for someone trying to lower cholesterol but also on the contrary have been shown to boost metabolism and support the immune system...

I have used only coconut oil as a source of cooking oil for the past two years and as mentioned, I currently have high cholesterol. I am very much undecided on whether to continue using it or not...

ford2600

subscriber wrote: »

Slightly off topic from being vegan or eating vegan, but in relation to cholesterol issues, I think the jury is very much out on coconut oil and whether it`s a help or a hindrance for cholesterol I believe.

From what I understand, it is loaded in saturated fat which would traditionally be a no no for someone trying to lower cholesterol but also on the contrary have been shown to boost metabolism and support the immune system...

I have used only coconut oil as a source of cooking oil for the past two years and as mentioned, I currently have high cholesterol. I am very much undecided on whether to continue using it or not...

What do you mean by high cholesterol? TC, LDL, HDL, VLDL or Tricglycerides?
What's your HDL/TRi ratio?

There is no cholesterol in coconut fat.

If you are going to apply heat to a fat, if you want to avoid oxidised fat, your best bet is a saturated fat. Your worst choice is a polyunsaturated with a monounsaturated in between.

As your are vegan, that leaves coconut your only real choice.

If you wish to limit fat, steam or very light frying is probably a good idea

Colser

In relation to high bad cholesterol I personally believe that while diet helps it's very much hereditary.I've had it at 7.9 most recent was 6.1.It's a problem for most of my family on one side .Obviously diet plays a part but I do think that some of us are just destined to have it..as I say that's just my own opinion.

subscriber

ford2600 wrote: »

What do you mean by high cholesterol? TC, LDL, HDL, VLDL or Tricglycerides?
What's your HDL/TRi ratio?

There is no cholesterol in coconut fat.

If you are going to apply heat to a fat, if you want to avoid oxidised fat, your best bet is a saturated fat. Your worst choice is a polyunsaturated with a monounsaturated in between.

As your are vegan, that leaves coconut your only real choice.

If you wish to limit fat, steam or very light frying is probably a good idea

I don`t have extensive knowledge.. certainly not any in depth scientific knowledge but I was referring to LDL.

My last test showed:

LDL cholesterol Rating: 3.8 with guidelines being given as 1.0 - 2.0.
HDL Cholesterol Rating: 1.2 with guidelines being given as 0.4 - 2.0
Total cholesterol Rating: 6.7 with guidelines being given as 3.0 - 5.0
CHOL/HDL Ratio Rating: 5.6 with guidelines being given as 0.0 - 3.0
Triglycerides Rating: 1.2 with guidelines being given as 0.4 - 2.0

My goal certainly isin`t to achieve being vegan, but to achieve lowering my cholesterol and improving my musculoskeletal health. If turning vegan achieves those things, then fantastic. I`ll stick with it...but if it doesn`t , I wont be long searching for something diffident.

I am giving myself a period of 3 months to see if there is any noticeable improvement....with either health concern.

ElKavo

Hi OP,

I've been Vegan for almost 2 years, Initially the weight dropped off me and I was full of energy. After about 2 months I became quite tired and started tracking my intake. I discovered that I was only taking in 1800 - 2000 calories per day! I'm 6'4" and weighed 90KG at about 14- 16% BF. Once I figured out the issues it was easy to address. I had been doing a fair bit of weight training too in the years prior too but had let this slip for about a year before hand.

Prior to going Vegan I would have had a very meat and dairy heavy diet and unknown to me was suffering because of it. I always felt really bloated and had major sinus problems. I would have sinus infections 2 - 3 times per year. I also would have a lot of mucus in my lungs and again would regularly have chest infections. This went on for my entire life, no amount of doctors visits offered any real solution other than medication. As a result of the sinus infections I suffered with migraines for years also. Since giving up dairy I have not had one sinus infection nor chest infection. I have better lung capacity.

I never suffered with High cholesterol but recently got it tested and the tester said I had super levels ( I cant remember the exact numbers but she commented that I was like a child) I also had to have surgery recently and the Nurse who took my blood pressure before was so impressed that she asked me if I was an athlete! I said no and she said that it was really good. Again I didn't take note of the exact numbers but it stuck out in my head mainly because I haven't done any real training in a good while because of an injury that required surgery to fix. I'm still recovering from the surgery and once this period is over I am chomping at the bit to get back into my weight training. I found that when I did exercise while on a Vegan diet that my recovery times were much lower than an omni diet and adding muscle mass was easy enough too. I also sleep much better than I ever have, I also snore less (according to the OH).

What I will say is listen to your body. Keep a log of intake and exercise, after a while you will know what you need to do to maintain your levels. Get a b12 supplement and get the rest from a well planned meal plan. There are ever growing numbers of people choosing a Vegan or plant based diet for a whole raft of reasons so you are not alone at all. If I can help in anyway please feel free to PM me for recipes or resources.

All the best

D

Zillah

jive wrote: »

Great post but would disagree with this; if anything it's difficult to take in enough calories due to the quantities of low calorie high volume foods in a vegan diet.

Depends entirely on the vegan. Are you eating tons of raw veg, wholegrain, etc? You'll probably feel full. Are you drinking litres of coke and eating biscuits and white bread all day? Probably easy to over eat.

jive

Zillah wrote: »

Depends entirely on the vegan. Are you eating tons of raw veg, wholegrain, etc? You'll probably feel full. Are you drinking litres of coke and eating biscuits and white bread all day? Probably easy to over eat.

You could say the same about any diet though it's nothing to do with a vegan diet.

Zillah

Well yeah, that's kind of the point. There is nothing inherent to a vegan diet that makes it hard to overeat.