La Liga 2017/18 Superthread

pjohnson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So you accept his ratio's in England were far poorer than in Spain? 18 goals in 31 starts in his final season? Good, but quite a long way off his over 1.0 ratio's in Spain. Suarez also got the same over-inflated jump up in his first season in Spain. Funny that, isn't it?

Messi is a midfielder, not rated or defined by goal stats unlike Ronaldo. I do not care in the slightest how many goals Messi has scored, or in how many games. That's for the Ronaldo fans to worry about, because if Ronaldo scores more he's better than Messi in their little world

Messi is a midfielder?

The Golden Miller

StringerBell wrote: »

"in their little world"

Id say it would be interesting to know what Ronaldo did to you to inspire such bitterness.

Just in relation to leo, it's hard to denigrate one but not the other.

And yes obviously his goal ratio was less as he was played deeper and still developing into the beat you see today, though he is finally starting to feel the effects of age. He still had a better than 1 in 2 in the league from midfield. His consistency at top level has been incredible. You do expect players to improve as the reach and hit their peak, well most do anyway maybe you don't and think all players will be the same at 28 as they were 22

Suarez? Banged in goals for fun in the premier league too and was also on an upward trajectory when leaving for Barca. Jaysus mo Salah is banging them in left right and centre now sure. The style of play has an effect for sure, the quality of the teams they are on has an effect for sure. The natural ability coupled with the hard work is what sets them apart though.

You keep saying they banged in goals for fun in the Premier League but ignore the fact, that although they scored alot in England it's not close to the numbers they post in Spain. "Upward trajectory" doesn't cut it in explaining the huge jump in goals in less games. Also he wasn't a winger in his final season and a half at United, he was an out and out striker. So can I hold you to an answer this time, do you think it's fair to suggest that the Spanish teams are weaker and less psychical in defense than their English counterparts, which leads to a big jump up in terms of stat padding?

Yes assists are very telling. Move over Pirlo, Ronaldo has better assist "stats" courtesy of 2 yard pull backs by the way of spending so much time hanging around the box; playmaking genius is Ronnie!

pjohnson wrote: »

Messi is a midfielder?

Yes. An attacking midfield who roams into deeper positions to pick up the ball and create.

irishman86

StringerBell wrote: »

Be practically impossible for Ronaldos scoring exploits in Spain to be less impressive then neymars in France

You never took in the crazy person factor

beya2009

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The Spanish league is a stronger league than the french, and considerably so. But unlike the English league for example, it's a non contact possession based league, ever since Barca started playing tiki-taka football. All teams now try and play like that. So where the 8th best team in Spain may beat the 8th best team in England by dominating possession, this possession based advantage is nullified by Barca and Madrid. What you're then left with is hopelessly flimsy and exposed defenses. So Ronaldo's stat padding can flourish. And in England, he turned in 31 goals once, the following season he wasn't close to that. The ridiculous numbers he knocks in now, just goes to show how the Spanish league over-inflates these all telling "stats".

But then how do you explain both Ronaldo and Messi banging in goals for fun in the champions league over the years? Do they bang in goals for fun because champions league is a non contact possession based competition?

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

You never took in the crazy person factor

Eibar and Girona are known for their tough defending

beya2009

La Liga seems to get knocked a lot. No doubt imo EPL the best league for me or put it this way...I watch it more than any other league. Still La Liga seems to be improving each season and seems to be getting more competitive (Real Madrids struggles this season proves that and Barca last season dropped a lot of points against teams they usually would not). Despite all the riches and vast squads from EPL, it's Spain's La Liga that continues to dominate Europe even though (rightly so) it was believed the tide was changing in that there was 5 EPL teams in last 16 but only 2 progressed to last 8 whereas for the 6th year in a row, there has been 3 Spanish teams in the quarter-final stage. Obviously it's been Barca and Real Madrid that have dominated in the last decade but teams like Sevilla and Atletico Madrid punch above their weight.

square ball

The quality of players and passers behind them has a massive impact on their scoring stats. If you have Iniesta or Modric threading through balls to you chances are the ball is going to find you more often.

Add in the fact that on both teams everyone looks for Messi and Ronaldo when they get into dangerous positions.

Suarez and Benzema for example are more likely to pass if they can see any kind of pass to Messi or Ronaldo than be selfish and go for goal themselves.

Ulysses Gaze

Ronaldo is the greatest striker since Gerd Muller.

But best all-round player in the world? Or of all time?

I don't think so.

KERSPLAT!

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Ronaldo is the greatest striker since Gerd Muller.

But best all-round player in the world? Or of all time?

I don't think so.

Who do you think Is?

The Golden Miller

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Ronaldo is the greatest striker since Gerd Muller.

But best all-round player in the world? Or of all time?

I don't think so.

That's a fair point in relation to Muller. Ronaldo is certainly in the debate when discussing the best goal scorers of all time, and will score goals anywhere he goes, but not quite to the extent he does in Spain imo. Muller for me is the best goal scorer of all time, particularly his numbers in the era he played in. Imagine what he'd do in a team like Madrid, where the monetary gap between the top two and the rest is the most lopsided we've ever seen, where attackers are protected, where conditions such as pitches and lighter balls all favour attackers, in demolitions against the likes of Girona where he could be registering 10 good chances per game if not more, where teams place an onus on possession and offence which leaves brittle defenses when their possession game is nullified against Barca and Madrid.

Ronaldo has the most comfortable set up we've ever seen for a striker, but even accounting for over-inflated stats he'd still put up impressive numbers in most teams. But this context needs to be placed when some people are talking about Ronaldo being one of the two best players ever, or in a discussion alongside Mardona and Cruyff etc. If you question this it's almost seen as a personal attack in some quarters. You've hit the nail on the head when you say he's one of the best goal scorers of all time, but falls quite a way short of being in the discussion of the true greats. Messi is the only player from this era who will be in that discussion. No one else will be close

Turtwig

Girona defeated real Madrid this season.

Ulysses Gaze

The Golden Miller wrote: »

That's a fair point in relation to Muller. Ronaldo is certainly in the debate when discussing the best goal scorers of all time, and will score goals anywhere he goes, but not quite to the extent he does in Spain imo. Muller for me is the best goal scorer of all time, particularly his numbers in the era he played in. Imagine what he'd do in a team like Madrid, where the monetary gap between the top two and the rest is the most lopsided we've ever seen, where attackers are protected, where conditions such as pitches and lighter ball all favour attackers, in demolitions against the likes of Girona where he could be registering 10 good chances per game if not more, where teams place an onus on possession and offence which leaves brittle defenses when their possession game is nullified against Barca and Madrid.

Ronaldo has the most comfortable set up we've ever seen for a striker, but even accounting for over-inflated stats he'd still put up impressive numbers in most teams. But this context needs to be placed when some people are talking about Ronaldo being one of the two best players ever, or in a discussion alongside Mardona and Cruyff etc. If you question this it's almost seen as a personal attack in some quarters. You've hit the nail on the head when you say he's one of the best goal scorers of all time, but falls quite a way short of being in the discussion of the true greats. Messi is the only player from this era who will be in that discussion. No one else will be close

I think the top 3 goalscorers are Gerd Muller, Jimmy Greaves and Ronaldo.

Jimmy Greaves gets left off these lists but his goalscoring record for Chelsea and Spurs is phenomenal. Still has the overall highest goalscoring record in the English top flight. At a time when pitches were like mud baths. He also netted 6 hat-tricks for England and scored 44 in 57 games.

I know what you are saying about people taking it personally. You'd think we were comparing Ronaldo to Emile Heskey.

irishman86

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Ronaldo is the greatest striker since Gerd Muller.

But best all-round player in the world? Or of all time?

I don't think so.

Whom do you think it is?
I'd imagine someone like Marcelo/Modric/Kante/Pjanic would be the best all around player

Mr.Nice Guy

beya2009 wrote: »

Despite all the riches and vast squads from EPL, it's Spain's La Liga that continues to dominate Europe even though (rightly so) it was believed the tide was changing in that there was 5 EPL teams in last 16 but only 2 progressed to last 8 whereas for the 6th year in a row, there has been 3 Spanish teams in the quarter-final stage. Obviously it's been Barca and Real Madrid that have dominated in the last decade but teams like Sevilla and Atletico Madrid punch above their weight.

It's a stretch to say La Liga dominates Europe. For example Lyon beat Villarreal - home and away - in the Europa League last month and then Marseille beat Bilbao last week - again home and away. The Spanish sides were deservedly beaten by their French counterparts. And yet many people claim that the French league is a poor league (usually the ones that don't watch and who ignore matches like the above)

Similar comments were made recently when Arsenal beat Milan. Some on the match thread commented that this must mean Serie A is a poor league (again people that don't watch it) - but wait, Juventus beat Spurs to reach the Champions League last 8 and Roma are also there.

My take on it is that it's silly to base La Liga's strength on the handful of top tier clubs of the league because they operate in a different sphere to the rest of the league. Same goes for the Premier League. Liverpool at the weekend swatted Watford aside like they were some bottom club bums - but they're actually mid-table.Yet the gulf from top tier to mid-tier is massive.

It seems to me this applies to all leagues. Hence why Lyon and Marseille can defeat Villarreal and Bilbao - yet even these French clubs are a level below what PSG can do because of the spending gulf.

Each top 5 league is split up into different tiers and a top tier club in one league will comfortably beat a second and third tier club in another league. Therefore judging a league's strength on the top tier is misguided. This will become apparent in the years to come. Mourinho touched on it in his press conference recently:

"Barcelona is always there in the past seven, eight years. Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern Munich and then of course appear now and again, another club like my Inter, like some other clubs like Monaco last season, but the ones that are always there is for some reason.

He says "for some reason" but I suspect he knows the real reason: money. Barca, Madrid, Juve and Bayern operate within budgets that dwarf their rivals and this has enabled them to build a platform for success. One of the problems the Premier League has is that there are more top-tier sides than in these other leagues. Spain has 3 clubs that are expected to reach the top four but the Premier League has double that, partly due to a more friendly distribution of wealth in previous years.

Really though Man City should soon join those names mentioned as regulars with their financial muscle. PSG ought to already be there but have made poor decisions and have had fairly unlucky draws the last two years landing Barca and Madrid early. With the money of PSG though, and the right managerial appointment, it seems only a matter of time before they are a mainstay last 8 team in the Champions League.

The way football is going the only true competition for the top tier sides will be in the Champions League as the domestic leagues increasingly become a formality with regards competition. There will be one or two outliers in a season: i.e. Monaco last season, Napoli this season.

Judging the success of a football league based on the performance of its wealthiest and most powerful is like judging a society's success by only focusing on its wealthiest and powerful. To get the full picture you must take in the society in its entirety and recognise that the top tier operate within their own universe.

irishguitarlad

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's a stretch to say La Liga dominates Europe. For example Lyon beat Villarreal - home and away - in the Europa League last month and then Marseille beat Bilbao last week - again home and away. The Spanish sides were deservedly beaten by their French counterparts. And yet many people claim that the French league is a poor league (usually the ones that don't watch and who ignore matches like the above)

Similar comments were made recently when Arsenal beat Milan. Some on the match thread commented that this must mean Serie A is a poor league (again people that don't watch it) - but wait, Juventus beat Spurs to reach the Champions League last 8 and Roma are also there.

My take on it is that it's silly to base La Liga's strength on the handful of top tier clubs of the league because they operate in a different sphere to the rest of the league. Same goes for the Premier League. Liverpool at the weekend swatted Watford aside like they were some bottom club bums - but they're actually mid-table.Yet the gulf from top tier to mid-tier is massive.

It seems to me this applies to all leagues. Hence why Lyon and Marseille can defeat Villarreal and Bilbao - yet even these French clubs are a level below what PSG can do because of the spending gulf.

Each top 5 league is split up into different tiers and a top tier club in one league will comfortably beat a second and third tier club in another league. Therefore judging a league's strength on the top tier is misguided. This will become apparent in the years to come. Mourinho touched on it in his press conference recently:



He says "for some reason" but I suspect he knows the real reason: money. Barca, Madrid, Juve and Bayern operate within budgets that dwarf their rivals and this has enabled them to build a platform for success. One of the problems the Premier League has is that there are more top-tier sides than in these other leagues. Spain has 3 clubs that are expected to reach the top four but the Premier League has double that, partly due to a more friendly distribution of wealth in previous years.

Really though Man City should soon join those names mentioned as regulars with their financial muscle. PSG ought to already be there but have made poor decisions and have had fairly unlucky draws the last two years landing Barca and Madrid early. With the money of PSG though, and the right managerial appointment, it seems only a matter of time before they are a mainstay last 8 team in the Champions League.

The way football is going the only true competition for the top tier sides will be in the Champions League as the domestic leagues increasingly become a formality with regards competition. There will be one or two outliers in a season: i.e. Monaco last season, Napoli this season.

Judging the success of a football league based on the performance of its wealthiest and most powerful is like judging a society's success by only focusing on its wealthiest and powerful. To get the full picture you must take in the society in its entirety and recognise that the top tier operate within their own universe.

This is a brilliant post. Some of my Spanish friends were boasting about this recently but I said something similar to your post. I dont think they liked it haha

beya2009

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's a stretch to say La Liga dominates Europe.

Fair point. Europa league a different story and lets not forget an English team won it last year and Chelsea have also won it in recent years. Atletico Madrid are favorites to win it this year but nothing is guaranteed.

Let's just focus on the elite competition (UCL) and in my view La Liga dominates UCL. Gone are the days when a team like Porto can win it....these days it's simply the rich and powerful that are competing and winning this competition.

The rich and powerful clubs from the EPL have under performed in this competition over the years and like you pointed out it's partly due to the competitiveness of the league where every season at least 3-4 teams have a credible chance of winning the league (simply not the case in any other league) and at least 6 EPL teams challenging for top 4 which makes for an extremely competitive league. Also lack of a winter break surely doesn't help. And it's extremely rare to retain the league in recent times. But still, how can a team like Sevilla (who is not a financial power house) knockout a team like Man U who have spent a lot of money under Mourinho's reign? How can a team of Man U's stature go out on a whimper? Perhaps this is just an outlier but according to Mourinho's long speech it's the norm for Man U dare I say.

The argument that Spanish teams consistently do well in UCL because they walk through the league is slightly flawed. Also on that logic, if we look at even weaker or less competitive leagues like in Germany and France...why do Bayern Munich (won it in 2013 but should they have more?) and PSG never win the competition even though in past seasons they have the league wrapped early so should have a bit of an advantage in resting players and avoiding injuries? Also a team like Atletico Madrid (who do not have the financial resources of the big 2) reaching 2 UCL finals in recent years is clearly a team that have punched above their weight.

Even though Barca have dominated the domestic league in the past decade...it's rarely a walk in the park whoever wins the league. Real always looked like winning it last season but they were pushed all the way by Barca and I think only finished 2 points clear. If you look at the past few season league winners in La Liga....the winner is usually clear of just 2-3 points...it goes to the wire a lot. I think those competitive run ins in La Liga have helped the big 2 in the latter stages of UCL.

eagle eye

Short and sweet post here

Ronaldo is one of the greatest of all time. Messi is too

Ronaldo has been world player of the year in two different teams which says a hell of a lot.

Saying somebody is the greatest of all time is never going to be factual. Players in different eras needed different things. Some players today would not have had a career 30 years ago because they would have been badly injured from brutal tackles, some would not have had the help of growth hormones and would never have made it. Similarly players from way back would not have had the pace for today's game nor the physicality.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and an argument can be made for and against any player.

mickmackey1

Bale takes the Wales goalscoring record from Rush with a hat-trick v China.

Mr.Nice Guy

Is anyone watching Sevilla vs Barca? Just switched it on and I see Sevilla are winning 2-0 with 65 minutes played.

Rekop dog

Just when you think the first ever la liga unbeaten season hopes are done they come back with two late goals. This side have had an answer for everything this season.

ShamoBuc

Barca.....they just don't know when they are beaten, awesome.

Turtwig

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Is anyone watching Sevilla vs Barca? Just switched it on and I see Sevilla are winning 2-0 with 65 minutes played.

Brilliant game. Sevilla be kicking themselves though. So many chances. Barca were cut open on almost every counterattack as they were gambling to get back into it - and Pique and Umtiti seemed to be having a dispute. Busquets was a huge loss. Messi is just a cheat code.

That was just ridiculously tough on Sevilla.

Mr.Nice Guy

Marvellous contribution from Messi once again. I would love to see him get his hands on the World Cup but I don't think even his mighty powers can carry that Argentinian defence to the top.

beya2009

That Sevilla-Barca game was awesome to watch. Sevilla must be scratching their heads to how they didn't hammer Barca never mind win the game. This Sevilla are no mugs and if only they could play like that every week they would be challenging for the league at the very least. Messi made the difference with his energy as Barca looked to be suffering from an International break hangover. Haven't seen them concede that many chances in ages...it was like they were down to 10 men.

irishman86

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Marvellous contribution from Messi once again. I would love to see him get his hands on the World Cup but I don't think even his mighty powers can carry that Argentinian defence to the top.

The excuses out already
Otamendi has been one of the top defenders in the premier league this year and has already been a top defender in Spain
Mercado has been good for Sevilla
Which defender exactly is it that is the weak defender
Rojo who plays for United or Fazio at Roma
Which teams have a better defence exactly

Argentinas problem is a few months before the world cup they have no idea of there team
Not picking Icardi & Dybala because they dont work with Messi is beyond crazy
If Messi gets injured and they have to rely on Martinez or Pavon

fullstop

irishman86 wrote: »

The excuses out already
Otamendi has been one of the top defenders in the premier league this year and has already been a top defender in Spain
Mercado has been good for Sevilla
Which defender exactly is it that is the weak defender
Rojo who plays for United or Fazio at Roma
Which teams have a better defence exactly

Argentinas problem is a few months before the world cup they have no idea of there team
Not picking Icardi & Dybala because they dont work with Messi is beyond crazy
If Messi gets injured and they have to rely on Martinez or Pavon

Oh yes, their defence is just fabulous :pac:

You didn't happen to watch them conceding 6 last week, did you?






:pac:

dfx-

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Barca.....they just don't know when they are beaten, awesome.

There's a danger that the 'unbeaten record' now becomes a thing that sort of weigh them down. It sort of happened with the long unbeaten run a couple of seasons ago.

Compulsory addition of "They're not as good as they were in 2011"

Mr.Nice Guy

irishman86 wrote: »

The excuses out already
Otamendi has been one of the top defenders in the premier league this year and has already been a top defender in Spain
Mercado has been good for Sevilla
Which defender exactly is it that is the weak defender
Rojo who plays for United or Fazio at Roma
Which teams have a better defence exactly

LOL is this for real? Otamendi I will grant you is a quality defender but Rojo is poor and I say that as a United fan. Nobody considers Mercado top class. Argentina are nowhere near other fancied teams defensively. Did you watch the recent game against Spain where they were torn to shreds? You also overlook their lack of a top class destroyer to protect the defence. Is a 33 year old Mascherano going to cut it?

Which teams have a better defence you ask? Let's look at Spain shall we:

De Gea (GK) Carvajal (RB) Ramos, Pique (CB) Alba (LB) with Busquets in front of them for protection.

Or how about France:

Lloris (GK) Sidibe (RB) Umtiti, Varane (CB) Mendy (LB) with Kante in front.

Or how about Brazil:

Alisson (GK) Alves (RB) Thiago Silva, Marquinhos (CB) Marcelo (LB) with Casemiro/Fernandinho in front.

You really think Argentina's squad compares favourably with the above? And I haven't even got to the World Champions Germany. I'd love to see you share your Argentina back four plus GK, DM and make a case that it is competitive with the aforementioned teams.

irishman86

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

LOL is this for real? Otamendi I will grant you is a quality defender but Rojo is poor and I say that as a United fan. Nobody considers Mercado top class. Argentina are nowhere near other fancied teams defensively. Did you watch the recent game against Spain where they were torn to shreds? You also overlook their lack of a top class destroyer to protect the defence. Is a 33 year old Mascherano going to cut it?

Which teams have a better defence you ask? Let's look at Spain shall we:

De Gea (GK) Carvajal (RB) Ramos, Pique (CB) Alba (LB) with Busquets in front of them for protection.

Or how about France:

Lloris (GK) Sidibe (RB) Umtiti, Varane (CB) Mendy (LB) with Kante in front.

Or how about Brazil:

Alisson (GK) Alves (RB) Thiago Silva, Marquinhos (CB) Marcelo (LB) with Casemiro/Fernandinho in front.

You really think Argentina's squad compares favourably with the above? And I haven't even got to the World Champions Germany. I'd love to see you share your Argentina back four plus GK, DM and make a case that it is competitive with the aforementioned teams.

They easily have a top six defence and possibly the best attack in international football
Mercado is as good as Sidibe and Mendy
You mention Rojo being bad when Varane has had a terrible season
Basing a friendly result is hilarious since Spain and Brazil with players linked in both teams having played in hammerings at world cups
Argentina conceded little in knock outs at the last world cup and people said the same nonsense. I think it was Goetzes goal the only one
It will be the exact same come this world cup, grind out results concede little and hope the forward does something magic
You mention Mascherano when Biglia is Argentinas midfield enforcer they play two dm

Mr.Nice Guy

irishman86 wrote: »

They easily have a top six defence and possibly the best attack in international football
Mercado is as good as Sidibe and Mendy
You mention Rojo being bad when Varane has had a terrible season
Basing a friendly result is hilarious since Spain and Brazil with players linked in both teams having played in hammerings at world cups
Argentina conceded little in knock outs at the last world cup and people said the same nonsense. I think it was Goetzes goal the only one
It will be the exact same come this world cup, grind out results concede little and hope the forward does something magic
You mention Mascherano when Biglia is Argentinas midfield enforcer they play two dm

They don't have a top six defence. They have a concede six defence.

I'm not concerned about their attack which is obviously one of the best in the tournament, rather the other end of the pitch. What is the defensive line-up you expect or hope to see?

Mercado as good as Sidibe or Mendy? Never heard that before. Rojo doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Varane and I wouldn't consider his season terrible at all.

Nothing hilarious about mentioning a 6-1 loss a few months out from the tournament if we're discussing the overall merits of a team, i.e. its defence as well as attack. And that was an Argentina team that contained Otamendi, Rojo, Mercado (sub), Biglia and Mascherano. Players that you say are as good as any other team, i.e. Spain, yet were absolutely mauled and made to look like schoolboys by Spain. How you can brush this off as no concern? They looked like chumps, not champs. We're not talking about a loss by a goal or two or three. They were whooped. That is most definitely a concern because if you look at previous winners, a mean defence is essential.

irishman86

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

They don't have a top six defence. They have a concede six defence.

I'm not concerned about their attack which is obviously one of the best in the tournament, rather the other end of the pitch. What is the defensive line-up you expect or hope to see?

Mercado as good as Sidibe or Mendy? Never heard that before. Rojo doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Varane and I wouldn't consider his season terrible at all.

Nothing hilarious about mentioning a 6-1 loss a few months out from the tournament if we're discussing the overall merits of a team, i.e. its defence as well as attack. And that was an Argentina team that contained Otamendi, Rojo, Mercado (sub), Biglia and Mascherano. Players that you say are as good as any other team, i.e. Spain, yet were absolutely mauled and made to look like schoolboys by Spain. How you can brush this off as no concern? They looked like chumps, not champs. We're not talking about a loss by a goal or two or three. They were whooped. That is most definitely a concern because if you look at previous winners, a mean defence is essential.

The fact youve nevere heard Mercado isnt as good as Sidibe or Mendy before baffles me tbh, im french and i think hes as good as them
Why shouldnt Varane and Rojo be mentioned together they are both cb's its very comparable. Varane is better but its not a chasm
Yes mentioning a 6-1 loss in a friendly is irrelevant, you ignore that the goalie went off.
I brush of friendlies before world cups far more than any time of the year, its when coaches are trying test stuff out that they couldnt do in qualifying
I already said a mean defence is what Argentina will have and when they get knocked out it will be because the attack doesnt fire
Sampaoli will set up Argentina exactly like Chile.

irishguitarlad

Unreal. After beating Getafe we're up to 6th and have leap frogged Sevilla!! Vamos mi betis coño!!!

The Floyd p

irishman86 wrote: »

possibly the best attack in international football

Whatever about the defence holding up, how can anyone say that the attack is elite? Aguero and Higuain look good on paper but both play poverty football for Argentina.

Gbear

Ronaldo doesn't get a free pass for not turning up (nor do his teammates) for the first half of the season.

That is the reason why they're not even within the remotest of shouts for the league, after all.

But Jesus Ronaldo has gone on the ****ing rampage lately.

Mr.Nice Guy

Messi with another lovely free-kick to give Barca the lead over Leganes.

Update: And a few minutes later Messi slots home a second.

Goal: Leganes get one back via El Zhar with twenty minutes remaining.

Hat-trick: Messi gets his third with a few minutes remaining.

chopperbyrne

Mr. Doesn't Turn Up For Big Games keeps his scoring run going to give Real the lead in the Madrid derby.

Unearthly

Worst celebration ever

Turtwig

Assuming Ronaldo isn't serious, real really do look like they've got a chance for three in a row in the UCL. Barca form has dipped and I don't see any other remaining team matching them.

Turtwig

Oblak is just brilliant.

Rekop dog

Turtwig wrote: »

Assuming Ronaldo isn't serious, real really do look like they've got a chance for three in a row in the UCL. Barca form has dipped and I don't see any other remaining team matching them.

Barca fairly crushed Chelsea and Roma on the scoreline in their last two CL matches and yet to lose a game in the league. I'm really not sure thats too big a dip. They're just very solid this year which has thrown people who are used to the usual flair off a bit, but results wise they've been unbelievably effective.

For me the most impressive game was the home one against Atleti, they were creeping up on Barca in the league but Barca absolutely strangled them in that game once they took the lead.

elefant

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Mr. Doesn't Turn Up For Big Games keeps his scoring run going to give Real the lead in the Madrid derby.

I think he's now Mr. Only Turns Up For Second Half of the Season.

Real down to 4th.

dfx-

elefant wrote: »

I think he's now Mr. Only Turns Up For Second Half of the Season.

Real down to 4th.

This is the characteristic part of the domestic season of Ronaldo/Madrid.

Again, this was the time to show up and actually make progress and they failed to do so again. No use scoring 30 goals in 5 games and drawing this one, dropping a place while you do it.

irishman86

elefant wrote: »

I think he's now Mr. Only Turns Up For Second Half of the Season.

Real down to 4th.

Hes good but im not sure hes good enough to win games when hes on the bench :rolleyes:

irishman86

dfx- wrote: »

This is the characteristic part of the domestic season of Ronaldo/Madrid.

Again, this was the time to show up and actually make progress and they failed to do so again. No use scoring 30 goals in 5 games and drawing this one, dropping a place while you do it.

Once again its hardly a forwards fault when his team concede a goal. Makes no difference between 3rd and 4th
Clearly Zidane is focusing on Juve

GavRedKing

I think Real taking the foot of the gas against Atleti and taking off Ronaldo was pointless.

The Juve game is dead and buried and they'll stroll into the semi finals, they'll probably beat Juventus comfortably in Madrid too for good measure but beating your rivals in a derby and closing the gap to 2nd should have been a priority.

Zidane has rotated on the back of CL games because for Real, its s**t or bust in the CL.

If they win a 3rd in a row they'll go down as probably the greatest side of all time, even if I think Peps Barca in their pomp were miles better.

irishman86

GavRedKing wrote: »

I think Real taking the foot of the gas against Atleti and taking off Ronaldo was pointless.

The Juve game is dead and buried and they'll stroll into the semi finals, they'll probably beat Juventus comfortably in Madrid too for good measure but beating your rivals in a derby and closing the gap to 2nd should have been a priority.

Zidane has rotated on the back of CL games because for Real, its s**t or bust in the CL.

If they win a 3rd in a row they'll go down as probably the greatest side of all time, even if I think Peps Barca in their pomp were miles better.

Last seasons Real for me beats any Pep side
But this years has shown it doesnt have the depth
They will hopefully spend big in the summer on some good squad players

Rekop dog

irishman86 wrote: »

Last seasons Real for me beats any Pep side
But this years has shown it doesnt have the depth

I'm with Gav on this. Peps Barca '08-'11were probably the best side of my lifetime, and I say that as an avid Milan fan who've had two amazing sides in that time.

irishman86

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm with Gav on this. Peps Barca '08-'11were probably the best side of my lifetime, and I say that as an avid Milan fan who've had two amazing sides in that time.

Could be the freshness in my mind dude

MisterAnarchy

irishman86 wrote: »

Last seasons Real for me beats any Pep side

Peps midfield of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets would school Modric, Kroos and Casemiro, its not even close.
Real would be starved of possession and picked off.

Even over the last few seasons Barcelona have dominated the midfield battles and that's with an injured Busquets, an over the hill Iniesta and no Xavi.

Real have enjoyed a lot of luck to win all of their recent Champions leagues, a last minute equaliser in 2014, a missed penalty miss in the final by Griezmann in 2015 and a ref completely riding Bayern against them last year.

Real have won La Liga once in the last 5 years, will be once in 6 soon, that's not the sign of a truly great team.

They have a great will to win and dig deep time and time again but I don't think they are in the same league as Peps peak team.

irishman86

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Peps midfield of Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets would school Modric, Kroos and Casemiro, its not even close.
Real would be starved of possession and picked off.

Even over the last few seasons Barcelona have dominated the midfield battles and that's without an injured Busquets, an over the hill Iniesta and no Xavi.

Real have enjoyed a lot of luck to win all of their recent Champions leagues, a last minute equaliser in 2014, a missed penalty miss in the final by Griezmann in 2015 and a ref completely riding Bayern against them last year.

They have a great will to win and dig deep time and time again but I don't think they are in the same league as Peps peak team.

Pep has lost to weaker midfields than Modric, Kroos & Casemiro
You are unrating them a whole lot buddy
Every team get lucky, Real were the best team by miles last year no question
For me they beat Peps Barca
Funny mentioning the ref favouring them, when Peps Barca robbed some teams with favours from the ref. Hence the Uefalona nickname they earned :pac: