Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

ITV2

no mention of Salary?

end of the road

ITV2 wrote: »

no mention of Salary?

they mentioned 32000 for drivers i think. will likely be more once any allowences are added up if there are any.

liger

ITV2 wrote: »

no mention of Salary?

Seems negotiable on relevant experience. So any of the the training school lads in DB would be able to get a better deal than someone coming in from the likes of ISM.

soundman45

end of the road wrote: »

ITV2 wrote: »

no mention of Salary?

they mentioned 32000 for drivers i think. will likely be more once any allowences are added up if there are any.

The way it's advertised is salary for drivers of up to 32000 so ithat seems that's the max amount. It doesn't say 32k plus allowances or benefits and that works out at about €615 per week which is ok but a long way short of dublin bus wages. However I've seen adds for airport hopper and pay rates are €10.50 an hour so I'd say the will get a lot of applications from drivers working for private companies.

devnull

soundman45 wrote: »

The way it's advertised is salary for drivers of up to 32000 so ithat seems that's the max amount. It doesn't say 32k plus allowances or benefits and that works out at about €615 per week which is ok but a long way short of dublin bus wages.

In no job that I have ever got or ever advertised for my department have we ever included additional things like overtime, allowance, bonuses or benefits - because to do so would be misleading as an employees mileage on these things may vary therefore it is best practice not to include these in figures and instead only use figures that are certainly obtainable.

Up to will relate to the base salary which I would say is dependent on experience and service and it's possible that the ones who are being trained up from scratch may start on a lower salary whilst they are being trained for instance.

ax586

SG333 the double decker that was painted in TFI colours is now in Broadstone in DB livery

Evil-1

SG 333 was only a test vehicle, its livery may or may not be the final version.

bebeman

Sign in DB Depot, transfer of routes starts in september

devnull

They're looking for engineering administrators as well now according to their website.

Believed that existing Dublin Bus drivers who are marked in on the routes to transfer to Go-Ahead are going to be seeking compensation for losing their marked in status.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

They're looking for engineering administrators as well now according to their website.

Believed that existing Dublin Bus drivers who are marked in on the routes to transfer to Go-Ahead are going to be seeking compensation for losing their marked in status.

They will of course as they will no longer have any type of life as going back spare is totally not on imo.

It's been stated now phase 1 of transfer won't be till December.

Things are not looking good so far.

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's been stated now phase 1 of transfer won't be till December.

Things are not looking good so far.

Was that from the industrial relations meeting that took place earlier this week? I heard there was going to be one to discuss the timeline but I didn't hear what the outcome was as of yet before your post.

Any reasons given that you can disclose? (appreciate if you can't)

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Was that from the industrial relations meeting that took place earlier this week? I heard there was going to be one to discuss the timeline but I didn't hear what the outcome was as of yet before your post.

Any reasons given that you can disclose? (appreciate if you can't)

I've seen a document but best not post here.

Obviously I can't say 100% as it could well change again.

Yer Da sells Avon

I'm planning on applying for a driving job with Go-Ahead. I know they'll have their own driving school, but it'll be a few months before they start actively recruiting, so I'm thinking of going ahead (ha-ha) and getting my D licence in advance. It's a bit on the expensive side, but I'm guessing that I might have a better chance of getting the job if I already have the licence and they wouldn't need to invest in putting me through the test. Would I be wasting my time, or does anyone reckon it could be an advantage?

AlekSmart

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I'm planning on applying for a driving job with Go-Ahead. I know they'll have their own driving school, but it'll be a few months before they start actively recruiting, so I'm thinking of going ahead (ha-ha) and getting my D licence in advance. It's a bit on the expensive side, but I'm guessing that I might have a better chance of getting the job if I already have the licence and they wouldn't need to invest in putting me through the test. Would I be wasting my time, or does anyone reckon it could be an advantage?

Suss it out,do your research and make your own call.
The Bus/Coach driving scene in Ireland is relatively small,and full of opinions and factions about everything.

Currently,in the Busdriving world,the focus is NOT on an applicants driving skills,but very firmly on their "People" skills....can you intereact with people in a variety of intense or stressful situations and remain calm,focused and professional ?

Most of the large UK Operating groups,and particularly the more successful one's,such as Reading Buses,Lothian,Trent Barton etc now make no bones about either.....Traing a person to actually Drive a bus is no big deal....but ensuring that Driver has effective communication and coping skills in terms of Customer Interaction,is a far more difficult (and expensive!) task.

I would suggest banging in an immediate expression of Interest,followed by a CV.
I would steer clear of suggestions of merely "wanting to drive a big bus" etc,and focus more on any customer focused experience or volunteer work you might have gained.

Best of luck with the process anyway !

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

I've seen a document but best not post here.

Obviously I can't say 100% as it could well change again.

Right for some reason one garage had it as December...
It's still going ahead from September...

punisher5112

Phase 1 9th September 2018 routes 102,175, 220, 17A, 33A/B

Phase 2 24th October 2018 routes 17, 59, 63, 75, 111, 184, 185, 45A

Phase 3 10th December 2018 18, 76, 76A, 239

Phase 4 24th January 2019 104, 114, 161, 236, 238 & 270

dashcamdanny

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I'm planning on applying for a driving job with Go-Ahead. I know they'll have their own driving school, but it'll be a few months before they start actively recruiting, so I'm thinking of going ahead (ha-ha) and getting my D licence in advance. It's a bit on the expensive side, but I'm guessing that I might have a better chance of getting the job if I already have the licence and they wouldn't need to invest in putting me through the test. Would I be wasting my time, or does anyone reckon it could be an advantage?

Definitely do your research as said. Contact them and ask them if its any advantage.

I know two people who got a D licence before they applied to Dublin bus and did not get through. I have the feeling that DB wants to train you to their standard which is high. Maybe Go-Ahead are the same.

Your driving may be assessed as if you are an experienced D driver. Not a guy who just passed his test. Which may put you at a disadvantage. It really does take experience to drive them with confidence.

They will also want to know about any customer service rolls you have had in the past I rekon also. Keeping peeps happy and off twitter is a big thing these days.

Best of luck with it. I love the the job personally. Dispite the daily dramas that unfold each day.

cherryghost

Question, since 10% of DB lines are effectively removed, how does this affect Taxsaver holders who sometimes use a number of these bus lines along with the other DB routes?

devnull

cherryghost wrote: »

Question, since 10% of DB lines are effectively removed, how does this affect Taxsaver holders who sometimes use a number of these bus lines along with the other DB routes?

The ticketing and fares on these routes after the change will work the same as before the change - the only thing that will be changing is the operator of the services.

I would expect nearer the time that the tickets will be renamed and rebranded to reflect this.

loyatemu

cherryghost wrote: »

Question, since 10% of DB lines are effectively removed, how does this affect Taxsaver holders who sometimes use a number of these bus lines along with the other DB routes?

I'd expect the Taxsaver ticket will change from "Dublin Bus" to "City Bus services" - I doubt you'll need a separate ticket for GA routes.

AlekSmart

cherryghost wrote: »

Question, since 10% of DB lines are effectively removed, how does this affect Taxsaver holders who sometimes use a number of these bus lines along with the other DB routes?

ALL current tickets and travel products remain valid on the new operators services..

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/publications/all-documents-published/

Bus Market Opening Frequently Asked Questions.

1. When will people see these new-buses on the streets? What is the time line?
* We have written to Go-Ahead today to indicate to them that they are the preferred bidder and we will be formally sending them a detailed Letter of Intent by the end of August.
* Go-Ahead is expected to begin operating some of these routes by the end of November 2018 and all routes by February 2019.
2. Can this new company hike up fares at will?
* No. The fares will be determined by NTA.
* The fare structure will be precisely the same as on services provided by Dublin Bus.
3. Will they take Leap Card / feature in the National Journey Planner / have the RTPI service?
* Yes, yes and yes.
4. Can people transfer easily from a Go-Ahead bus to a Dublin Bus – just like they do now between buses?
* Yes. Journeys will be seamless from that point of view. Season tickets valid on Dublin Bus services will be valid on Go-Ahead services and vice-versa.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

They will of course as they will no longer have any type of life as going back spare is totally not on imo.

In this instance I will criticize the unions. It seemed they were so hell on keeping any form of tendering or as they put it 'privatisation' that they were would allow the interests of certain members fall through the cracks. I think there a political element in some of their fight against privatisation that has resulted in their members potentially suffering.

This example is purely fictious now but say for example in London the number 29 bus is operated by Arriva but TFL decides to award the contract to say Metroline when the Arriva contract is up then the marked in Arriva drivers on the 29 have the option to transfer to Metroline with the same t+cs driving the number 29 from a Metroline depot doing more or less the same job with same pay and t+cs just working for a different company and wearing a different uniform. This is all made because of TUPE.

Why can't DB drivers marked in on the tendered out routes move to GAD under DB pay and t+cs just like their London counterparts or maybe I'm missing something.

Cookie_Monster

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why can't DB drivers marked in on the tendered out routes move to GAD under DB pay and t+cs just like their London counterparts or maybe I'm missing something.

TUPE defeats much of the purpose of tendering, especially in a union based enviroment. If you must keep outdated, overly generous and potentially backward t&c's when hiring from a past operator, never mind staff with all sorts of ridiculous expectations, how can you hope to every improve efficiency, costs and provide a better service?
TUPE is just another crazy union invention to put employees before the actual needs of a business and customers.

LuckyLloyd

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TUPE defeats much of the purpose of tendering, especially in a union based enviroment. If you must keep outdated, overly generous and potentially backward t&c's when hiring from a past operator, never mind staff with all sorts of ridiculous expectations, how can you hope to every improve efficiency, costs and provide a better service?
TUPE is just another crazy union invention to put employees before the actual needs of a business and customers.

Doesn't seem crazy to me at all. Why wouldn't you fight tooth and nail to protect your terms and conditions of employment? Otherwise it would create a loophole that would be ruthlessly exploited by employers across various industries. In any case, TUPE and its predecessor has existed in EU legislation since 1977. It's nothing new.

If tendering is just going to be fought on a race to the bottom in wages then **** tendering.

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TUPE defeats much of the purpose of tendering, especially in a union based enviroment. If you must keep outdated, overly generous and potentially backward t&c's when hiring from a past operator, never mind staff with all sorts of ridiculous expectations, how can you hope to every improve efficiency, costs and provide a better service?

you can very easily provide a better service, as dublin bus have proved compared to the late 90s and early 2000s. terms and conditions have nothing to do with providing a good service. it could be argued that costs and efficientsy, which would most likely be achieved via the eradication of good terms and conditions, could lead to a worse service, as staff morale would go down to the floor.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TUPE is just another crazy union invention to put employees before the actual needs of a business and customers.

no it isn't. it is a vital part of the working environment as it protects workers and insures continuity of terms and conditions. the unions didn't invent it or bring it in, the EU thankfully did, for which many workers are greatful.

AlekSmart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TUPE defeats much of the purpose of tendering, especially in a union based enviroment. If you must keep outdated, overly generous and potentially backward t&c's when hiring from a past operator, never mind staff with all sorts of ridiculous expectations, how can you hope to every improve efficiency, costs and provide a better service?
TUPE is just another crazy union invention to put employees before the actual needs of a business and customers.

Interestingly enough,in London,the real Capital of competitively tendered Bus Services,often put forward as THE location to emulate,TfL senior management are having to take decisive action in their attempts to retain Busdrivers,who rather selfishly,continue to leave the industry...with poor pay and increasingly anti-social roster's and rota's, being cited as contributing to the poor retention rates of staff.

http://www.cityam.com/278940/mayor-sadiq-khan-unveils-london-licence-safeguard-pay-bus

http://www.cityam.com/256016/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-brings-minimum-salary-23000

This is but the latest "initiative" of many,which London's governors have had to use,when the "actual needs of employees" were disregarded or cast aside in the crusade for the "actual needs of business".....profit.

With TUPE dating back well into the last Century,and it's genus being within the EU's own administrative framework,it is surely somewhat questionable,to label it a "Crazy Union Invention" ?

dublinman1990

New up-close shots of the new double decker livery (including the Wrightbus Depot shots) are now up.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38863760440/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38875928950/in/faves-91538517@N02/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/40691139831/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/39779584825/

Some new info coming from the Flickr comments has been available about ordering buses for Go Ahead.

The number of buses to be transferred from Dublin Bus to Go Ahead will be up an additional 16 buses. This increases the current number of buses from 60 to 76. This means that less new double decker buses will be ordered this year with 24 of them intended for Go Ahead.

The number of new streetlites though will remain unchanged at 25 buses.

8 double deckers & 4 streetlites have been made from Wrights so far at the moment. They must be building some of them in advance to allow new recruits drive the buses to provide them training from this summer. New block pattern seat covers have been made & included in 1 of the photos showing the Go Ahead double deckers before they put out on the road to Dublin. They look nice although a more clearer view is needed from the photograph.

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

New up-close shots of the new double decker livery (including the Wrightbus Depot shots) are now up.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38863760440/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38875928950/in/faves-91538517@N02/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/40691139831/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/39779584825/

Some new info coming from the Flickr comments has been available about ordering buses for Go Ahead.

The number of buses to be transferred from Dublin Bus to Go Ahead will be up an additional 16 buses. This increases the current number of buses from 60 to 76. This means that less new double decker buses will be ordered this year with 24 of them intended for Go Ahead.

The number of new streetlites though will remain unchanged at 25 buses.

8 double deckers & 4 streetlites have been made from Wrights so far at the moment. They must be building some of them in advance to allow new recruits drive the buses to provide them training from this summer. New block pattern seat covers have been made & included in 1 of the photos showing the Go Ahead double deckers before they put out on the road to Dublin. They look nice although a more clearer view is needed from the photograph.

I noticed they don't have have yellow grab rails. I thought that was a requirement for all buses and trains for the last 10 or so years to facilitate visually impaired passengers also am I right in saying that these buses have a different seat pattern than a DB vehicle.

Driver training wise I would say they would buy some old UK buses from ensignbus, something old from London or even something being withdrawn by DB to train up C licence holders. I doubt they'd let someone who's never driven bus before loose on a brand new SG.

punisher5112

Go ahead wouldn't have to buy any bus though.

These are all paid for by us tax payer fools and letting a multi national in to make even more profit.

dublinman1990

Stephen15 wrote: »

I noticed they don't have have yellow grab rails. I thought that was a requirement for all buses and trains for the last 10 or so years to facilitate visually impaired passengers also am I right in saying that these buses have a different seat pattern than a DB vehicle.

Driver training wise I would say they would buy some old UK buses from ensignbus, something old from London or even something being withdrawn by DB to train up C licence holders. I doubt they'd let someone who's never driven bus before loose on a brand new SG.

They might be putting them into storage in Broadstone as a storage facility & then transferred to Ballymount until they begin Phase 1 of their routes from September. I did notice however a Dublin Bus fare signage notice on the front side window from one of the photographs.

Van.Bosch

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go ahead wouldn't have to buy any bus though.

These are all paid for by us tax payer fools and letting a multi national in to make even more profit.

They were awarded the contract through an open tender, so not buying the buses isn’t really relevant. DB don’t buy their buses?

punisher5112

Van.Bosch wrote: »

They were awarded the contract through an open tender, so not buying the buses isn’t really relevant. DB don’t buy their buses?

dB is semi state which it should stay as.

Luas is operated by a transdev/veolia.
A private operator which also is multi national.

We don't need to give away contracts to multi national companies.

dB use to purchase but it wasn't any different really as subsidisation was how it works and always will.

Go ahead will cost more to do the exact same service.
They aren't going to be any better but the nta will push the 35% increase in service as a big thing like oh look how much better they are.

Why does everything have to be sold of and letting things be taken over.

Van.Bosch

punisher5112 wrote: »

dB is semi state which it should stay as.

Luas is operated by a transdev/veolia.
A private operator which also is multi national.

We don't need to give away contracts to multi national companies.

dB use to purchase but it wasn't any different really as subsidisation was how it works and always will.

Go ahead will cost more to do the exact same service.
They aren't going to be any better but the nta will push the 35% increase in service as a big thing like oh look how much better they are.

Why does everything have to be sold of and letting things be taken over.

I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why:

1) DARTs stopping at Clontarf road and then 200m down thevtracks to change drivers. The driver change should be at Clontarf road station to minimise passenger disruption.

2) DART drivers refusing to train new drivers.

3) DB drivers refusing to operate rear doors at stops where it is safe to do so.

punisher5112

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why:

1) DARTs stopping at Clontarf road and then 200m down thevtracks to change drivers. The driver change should be at Clontarf road station to minimise passenger disruption.

2) DART drivers refusing to train new drivers.

3) DB drivers refusing to operate rear doors at stops where it is safe to do so.

No drivers are refusing to open rear doors but some may well be using their discretion.

If people stopped suing everyone for anything then this may help.

On the dart about change of driver that may well be an operation issue and safer or at points.

Stephen15

To be fair most DB drivers are now are using the middle doors at most stops or at least on routes I have observed.

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

To be fair most DB drivers are now are using the middle doors at most stops or at least on routes I have observed.

I will once safe to do so.

There are many stops not suitable and actually dangerous to do so.

I've had many where the CCTV monitor isn't working including brand new vehicle's.

The thing I never get is no matter how long they are left open someone nearly always walks into as closing.

end of the road

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why:

1) DARTs stopping at Clontarf road and then 200m down thevtracks to change drivers. The driver change should be at Clontarf road station to minimise passenger disruption.

2) DART drivers refusing to train new drivers.

3) DB drivers refusing to operate rear doors at stops where it is safe to do so.

those are not valid reasons, as privatization/tendering would not solve those issues. the private company would still have to talk with the unions in relation to the first 2, and all stops would have to be checked to insure they are fully safe, + enforcement would have to take place, for the third to be solved. if the drivers aren't opening the doors, it's because it's not safe. you may disagree otherwise but the driver drives the bus and they will know when they are required to do certain things and when not to do so, so their word, and the word of the company/NTA is final until the instruction and rules are changed.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

The thing I never get is no matter how long they are left open someone nearly always walks into as closing.

I know there are already far too many annoying beeps and automated announcements on public transport, but is there anything at all to be said for a "stand clear, door closing" announcement on buses?

StreetLight

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I know there are already far too many annoying beeps and automated announcements on public transport, but is there anything at all to be said for a "stand clear, door closing" announcement on buses?

As long as it's not the annoying and nonsensical one Bus Eireann had on theirs for years:
"Stand Clear - Luggage Doors Operaaayyyshe".

dashcamdanny

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why:

1) DARTs stopping at Clontarf road and then 200m down thevtracks to change drivers. The driver change should be at Clontarf road station to minimise passenger disruption.

2) DART drivers refusing to train new drivers.

3) DB drivers refusing to operate rear doors at stops where it is safe to do so.

more middle door BS.

So when we open the door and some kid or elderly person gets their front teeth knocked out because they walked out into a drain or a ditch, im guessing you will be back shouting that the driver should not have opened the door. :rolleyes:


Do you think Go Ahead will open the door every time?

Stephen15

Hopefully after bus connects all stop issues regarding middle doors are sorted out meaning that they can be used at all stops.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go ahead wouldn't have to buy any bus though.

These are all paid for by us tax payer fools and letting a multi national in to make even more profit.

What's wrong with a business making profit?

The businesses that provides you with food, medicines, cars, fuel, clothing, etc make profits also.

bebeman

salonfire wrote: »

What's wrong with a business making profit?

The businesses that provides you with food, medicines, cars, fuel, clothing, etc make profits also.

Private operator- Profits go to share holders.
Public operator- Profits go to Government, means less money from TAX PAYERS is required to operate the routes that loose money.

amcalester

bebeman wrote: »

Private operator- Profits go to share holders.
Public operator- Profits go to Government, means less money from TAX PAYERS is required to operate the routes that loose money.

Problem with that is that the public operators, hamstrung by unions and other vested interests, don’t turn a profit and require further investment paid for by the tax payer whereas private operators don’t get any extra funding.

bebeman

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I know there are already far too many annoying beeps and automated announcements on public transport, but is there anything at all to be said for a "stand clear, door closing" announcement on buses?

Many people in own world with headphones on listing to music.
Fact is many dont scan Leap card correctly on validator and keep on walking as they are wearing headphones, can't hear the validator beeping , no point in calling them back won't hear you, I'm not getting out of cab to go upstair to get them.
Serious money being lost.

punisher5112

amcalester wrote: »

Problem with that is that the public operators, hamstrung by unions and other vested interests, don’t turn a profit and require further investment paid for by the tax payer whereas private operators don’t get any extra funding.

It's going to cost exactly the same but actually will be more.

It's a shambles.

bebeman

amcalester wrote: »

Problem with that is that the public operators, hamstrung by unions and other vested interests, don’t turn a profit and require further investment paid for by the tax payer whereas private operators don’t get any extra funding.

You would be wrong there kiddo!
DB turn profit.
Government have cut money given to DB by the same amount as the profit made.
Wont be cutting the money Go Ahead receive no matter how much profit, but watch them cut DB money, savings for Tax Payer

amcalester

bebeman wrote: »

You would be wrong there kiddo!
DB turn profit.
Government have cut money given to DB by the same amount as the profit made.
Wont be cutting the money Go Ahead receive no matter how much profit, but watch them cut DB money, savings for Tax Payer

Turn a profit or spend less than the subvention?

devnull

bebeman wrote: »

Private operator- Profits go to share holders.
Public operator- Profits go to Government, means less money from TAX PAYERS is required to operate the routes that loose money.

The way I see it is neither model is ideal.

Private operators only make a profit if they are efficient which then does go to the shareholders as you rightly say, but they have to compete with other firms which generally makes them more lean.

Public operators normally have an issue in that if there is any profit to be had the funds normally end up going to the staff or there will be a strike and normally are not facing such levels of competition as the private sector does.

The unions have been telling us for years though that Dublin Bus should not be expected to make a profit.

devnull

bebeman wrote: »

Wont be cutting the money Go Ahead receive no matter how much profit, but watch them cut DB money.

There's a massive difference.

The DB Contract was let under a completely different type of contract that was a direct award when the Go-Ahead was awarded following competitive tendering and as such different rules apply.

The Bus Eireann Waterford contract is an identical style contract to the Go-Ahead Dublin one, and if DB had retained the Dublin routes they'd have been on exactly the same contract as Go-Ahead will be on rather than the contract DB are on now.