Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The first signs of preparing for the Go-Ahead routes starting at bus stops have appeared.

Starting to see a few DB stop poles which have had their yellow heads replaced with blue heads.

Looks very odd and a very cheap, easy and lazy way of doing things rather than doing them properly.

Which stops are these as a matter of interest? Do they only serve GAI routes or both DB and GAI routes? I noticed stop 3129 in Cabinteely which recently had a new shelter added has had DB branding applied despite the fact it serves DB route 145 but also future GAI route 63.

john boye

Stephen15 wrote: »

Which stops are these as a matter of interest? Do they only serve GAI routes or both DB and GAI routes? I noticed stop 3129 in Cabinteely which recently had a new shelter added has had DB branding applied despite the fact it serves DB route 145 but also future GAI route 63.

I saw them in Dundrum on stops along the 75 route.

dublinman1990

Here is one in Firhouse. Holy moly. The bus stop looks awful tbh. What were the NTA thinking?

devnull

The stupid thing is that they have design guidelines for this kind of thing and the proposed designs are much better than what we are seeing on the ground for the first few stops at least.

The design manual they produced was excellent, but the fact that they're cutting corners already doesn't speak much for how the roll-out of an integrated system is going to go.

Lets just hope this is not the sign of things to come, and is only a very short term thing.

punisher5112

Wonderful going back to a pole that is basically invisible.....

Qrt

devnull wrote: »

The stupid thing is that they have design guidelines for this kind of thing and the proposed designs are much better than what we are seeing on the ground for the first few stops at least.

The design manual they produced was excellent, but the fact that they're cutting corners already doesn't speak much for how the roll-out of an integrated system is going to go.


Lets just hope this is not the sign of things to come, and is only a very short term thing.

I'd say they're just stop-gaps really. Considering certain stretchs of road may be losing their bus service and having it go up the next street, I doubt they're keen to install the fancy bus stops like down in Cork.

Stephen15

I thought they were going to go for design similar to what can now be seen in Cork and on some BE routes not a design I'm mad keen on myself. I don't like some of these new style stops, just look at the state of some of the Aircoach stops compared to DB stops which are usually quite well maintained to be fair even some of the plastic DB stops in the city centre aren't in great shape either.

icdg

Incidentally the Route 139 (that odd hybrid of city and country route) has been operating for months and most of the bus stops it uses are still fully Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann branded.

punisher5112

Similar to swords express....

No bus stop, so no expenses there just buses, fuel and drivers.

devnull

First vehicles in public service this morning
https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1033633794429992960

GM228

devnull wrote: »

First vehicles in public service this morning
https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1033633794429992960

I guess that means officially August 26th is GAs first day of operating in Ireland for the public as opposed to September 9th.

devnull

Interior of Go-Ahead's new vehicles

devnull

Communication from Transport for Ireland

Transport for Ireland welcome Go-Ahead Ireland, it’s newest bus service provider

From September 2018 Go-Ahead Ireland will operate Transport for Ireland’s new Route 175 (Citywest-UCD).

Route 175 Timetable

On 7th October 2018 Go-Ahead Ireland will commence phased operation of 24 routes throughout the Outer Dublin Metropolitan Area, between Balbriggan in north County Dublin and Newcastle County Wicklow.

- The Transport for Ireland Journey Planner includes Go-Ahead Ireland services.
- The Real Time Ireland App lets you check when your next Go-Ahead Ireland service is due.
– Leap Cards accepted on Go-Ahead Ireland services
– Dublin Bus annual, monthly and taxsaver tickets accepted on Go-Ahead Ireland services

Contact Details
Address: Ballymount Road Lower, Dublin 12, D12 X201
Web: http://www.goaheadireland.ie
Email: customercomment@goaheadireland.ie
Phone: 1850 80 40 71
Facebook: www.facebook.com/goaheadireland12
Twitter: @goaheadireland

Customer service team’s opening hours:
0700 to 1900 Monday to Friday (excluding Public Holidays)
0800 to 1800 Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays (except Christmas Day)

cherryghost

I assume there's no current intention to modify the routes they are taking over?

Dravokivich

cherryghost wrote: »

I assume there's no current intention to modify the routes they are taking over?

If there is, it'll be upto the NTA.

Yer Da sells Avon

The NTA livery has been heavily revised, with lots of yellow added to the front. Two buses done so far.

devnull

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

The NTA livery has been heavily revised, with lots of yellow added to the front. Two buses done so far.

Pics?

john boye

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

The NTA livery has been heavily revised, with lots of yellow added to the front. Two buses done so far.

Funnily enough I've always felt a dash of orange or yellow wouldn't look out of place on it so I hope that's true.

Cookie_Monster

a big ole yellow square like the front of trains perhaps?

Yer Da sells Avon

I'll try and get a pic tomorrow, but the front looks very similar to the current DB livery.

KD345

The revised livery is much better. I believe the design was signed off on a few weeks back - yellow, green and blue. From the front, the bus looks identical to a Dublin Bus which is good for consistency.

devnull

I sincerely hope that the change didn't involve paying Dublin Bus vast sums of money that was previously being talked about. It does explain why they've gone down the avenue they have with the bus stops though.

The problem with a U-Turn is that it signals weakness in the NTA in relation to decision making when placed under pressure and I'm sure that's something that the NBRU will be hoping to exploit in relation to BusConnects.

Any news on Dublin Bus using the same livery themselves?

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Communication from Transport for Ireland

Whenever it has been mentioned about timetables etc and DB not mentioning/linking to GA services many have said why should they, they are in competition and DB should not recognise GA and all those sorts of comments, and yet this stands out for me:-

Dublin Bus annual, monthly and taxsaver tickets accepted on Go-Ahead Ireland services

So much for they should not recognise each other etc. It is likely that the NTA dictated this, even so it's a start for cross-operator recognition, I wonder will GA also have their own season tickets or will the existing DB season tickets become a Dublin buses type season ticket meaning specific DB season tickets will be phased out.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

I sincerely hope that the change didn't involve paying Dublin Bus vast sums of money that was previously being talked about. It does explain why they've gone down the avenue they have with the bus stops though.

The problem with a U-Turn is that it signals weakness in the NTA in relation to decision making when placed under pressure and I'm sure that's something that the NBRU will be hoping to exploit in relation to BusConnects.

Any news on Dublin Bus using the same livery themselves?

Why would they pay DB vast sums of money?

But knowing about the reluctance of DB to change livery it is possible this is the compromise, same front for both operator's and different sides (1 step at a time I suppose), is there a coincidence in that this livery change has occurred around the same time DB has finally agreed to adopt the proper TFI logo I wonder?

liger

devnull wrote: »

First vehicles in public service this morning
https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1033633794429992960

Anyone got pics of the DB buses down in the port brought in to dig out GA ?

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

Why would they pay DB vast sums of money?

Because Dublin Bus apparently were seemingly asking for money to use their livery in the past according to what we've read here and in the Dail

But knowing about the reluctance of DB to change livery it is possible this is the compromise, same front for both operator's and different sides (1 step at a time I suppose), is there a coincidence in that this livery change has occurred around the same time DB has finally agreed to adopt the proper TFI logo I wonder?

It wouldn't surprise me at all. But it's really laughable if that was the case.

The other compromise already agreed was to allow use of operator logos on the side rather than just operators names. You will see that Go-Ahead are currently branding all vehicles with their logo whereas formally it said Go-Ahead in just regular font rather than a logo.

All we need now is for DB to use the proper journey planner and acknowledge that the GA services exist and put a link to the TFI website. Unfortunately I don't hold my breath, since like Irish Rail, they have the TFI logo there, but it's not a link, which I guess is deliberate.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Because Dublin Bus apparently were seemingly asking for money to use their livery in the past according to what we've read here and in the Dail

Yes they put a value on their "brand" (€28M I think it was) but considering that the DB brand was self produced and not bought/sold one wonders how they came up with their fair value of the brand, also their brand (livery) is not protected since 2014 so in reality it's value is €0.

Only the DB logo itself is a registered trade mark.

I don't recall them saying they wanted money for the livery to be used, rather they didn't want to change because it was so valuable and worth protecting.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

Yes they put a value on their "brand" (€28M I think it was) but considering their brand (livery) is not protected, it's value is €0. Only the DB logo itself is a registered trade mark.

I don't recall them saying they wanted money for the livery to be used, rather they didn't want to change because it was so valuable and worth protecting.

Some would read valuable and naming a price of what they think the brand is worth as essentially saying that is how much we think it is worth overall! , now make us an offer.

The livery is trademarked which was renewed in October 2013
https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=228598

They also have placed a value on their stops and shelters according to rumour as well but that could be completely false.

L1011

Do they even own the bulk of the shelters seeing as they were erected by outdoor advertising firms? Or are council funded -replacements usually but some new - when roadworks are done

pclive

Merrion Gates plan abandoned
Bus livery Changed

Bus Connects is doomed!

RebelButtMunch

devnull wrote: »

Communication from Transport for Ireland

I hope that's not the replacement for the 75.
Anyone know if that's true ?

punisher5112

New fleet out doing 175 run obviously route training.

GM228

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

I hope that's not the replacement for the 75.
Anyone know if that's true ?

175 is a new route, not a replacement.

Stephen15

I don't understand how DB can object to buses which they don't own being repainted by their owner.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

The livery is trademarked which was renewed in October 2013
https://eregister.patentsoffice.ie/register/TMRegister.aspx?idappli=228598

Interesting, they had an identical trademark (with the same registration date) removed from the database in 2014 due to not being renewed.

GM228

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't understand how DB can object to buses which they don't own being repainted by their owner.

Especially when the contract specifically states they must be painted in a scheme as dictated by the NTA.

Note though that technically the NTA don't own the buses, DB do, rather as part of the conditions of the PSO contract the NTA can transfer them to another operator which is exactly what happened with the buses transferred to GA.

punisher5112

Here is the latest colour of buses....

devnull

That's the worst bus livery I've ever had the misfortune of seeing. The yellow part on the side just looks totally out of place with the rest of the bus, it doesn't fit the design at all.

You can be sure that the NBRU will be hoping that if they apply another pressure that they can force a U-Turn on BusConnects now since the NTA has shown that if you pressure them enough they might buckle.

The post mentions there are two version - surely the second one cannot be any worse?

punisher5112

That was the only one I got.

Haven't seen option 2.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's white.

Stevek101

That really is shocking. Might as well just let go ahead make their own livery at this rate.

Peregrine

punisher5112 wrote: »

Here is the latest colour of buses....

That's vile

Stephen15

I expecting to see maybe a slight bit of yellow but that is really awful. It looks a double decker which has been re purposed as a children's play bus.

devnull

Stevek101 wrote: »

That really is shocking. Might as well just let go ahead make their own livery at this rate.

The stupid thing is we're less than two weeks before launching services by Go-Ahead and the NTA are backing out of a design that was supposed to have been locked down months ago, presumably due to pressures from other parties and they have not been strong enough to hold their ground.

Despite the fact Go-Ahead services start on 5th September, they are still at this point experimenting with possible new liveries to the point that they have done up two samples it seems since they are not sure which one is going to be the best to use. That really is unbelievable.

With the botched 139 launch, the stops and now a very late livery change, serious questions continue to be raised as to how the NTA will manage the integration of services. Everything I see so far doesn't fill me with confidence that the NTA are sufficiently prepared to be able to handle the next few months in a way that will serve up the passengers the best possible experience.

MJohnston

That's horrendous - the yellow goes okay with the dark blue (although then just looks like the Maxol colours), but clashes with the teal stripe completely. Rotten. I didn't much like the original livery, but it was miles better than this.

Stevek101

Its gas this whole yellow craic was dismissed by the board of the NTA months ago. I wonder why there was a change of heart?

devnull

Stevek101 wrote: »

Its gas this whole yellow craic was dismissed by the board of the NTA months ago. I wonder why there was a change of heart?

External pressures I would be almost certain about. But it weakens the NTA, no doubt about it.

The problem is that when you have a transport regulator who has held firm for so long on something like this and then performs a U-Turn at the last minute, like a U-Turn in politics, it shows a weakness of leadership and decision making and it also sends a message out to the unions, operators, and other interests, that if you pressure the NTA for long enough and are persistent, you can get them to back down.

The NBRU will be looking at this thinking that if they keep up the pressure about BusConnects for example and keep at it, they can force the NTA to retreat. Dublin Bus, who are probably less than keen to integrate with Go-Ahead, may now be thinking that if there are any things they are not keen to do, particularly if it was them that forced the addition of the yellow, if they hold out long enough on those things, the NTA may concede some ground.

Of course the whole thing could be a staging post for getting something closer to the Dublin Bus livery when people draw the conclusion that the proposed hybrid livery is completely dreadful.

Qrt

punisher5112 wrote: »

Here is the latest colour of buses....

Even if the stripe was parallel to the yellow champfer (I think that's the right term)

Stephen15

I have also noticed that the full Go-Ahead Ireland logo now appears on GAI buses. In the original pictures I saw it was in a standardised NTA font. Surely the NTA can't implement this awful livery I hope it was just a case of them testing the water and not something that's actually going to be done.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have also noticed that the full Go-Ahead Ireland logo now appears on GAI buses. In the original pictures I saw it was in a standardised NTA font. Surely the NTA can't implement this awful livery I hope it was just a case of them testing the water and not something that's actually going to be done.

I've heard from a very good source the yellow has now been signed off and will be going ahead no matter what, although I haven't heard anything concrete as to what the livery with the yellow would look like. The first time I saw any image of it was when it was posted on this thread! I'm just hoping there is indeed a second option as mentioned in the image as it can't be any worse.

As for the Go-Ahead logo, that was a change which was agreed to a little while back that operators can use their full logo rather than just their name - I have no issue with that at all.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

As for the Go-Ahead logo, that was a change which was agreed to a little while back that operators can use their full logo rather than just their name - I have no issue with that at all.

I don't have a problem with that as such but my guess would be that it is something which the NTA are doing to allow to try and get DB on board with the idea of the common livery.

What the NTA could have done is proposed an all blue livery and allow operators to make their own small adjustments to it similar to what used to be the case with TFL. Yes it's not ideal but it's better than having GAI and DB operating in two completely different liveries.