Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

liger · 09-09-2018 8:43pm

L1011 wrote: »

Ex Irish Rail Docklands driver I wonder? Extremely frequent that they run in darkness, with Croke Park and Cross Guns on the route

In fairness, there's a lot to be putting together on your first real day of work. None of them want to be the first to have an accident, one looked pretty nervous driving.

_Kaiser_ · 09-09-2018 9:38pm

Reading back as I'm only occasionally keeping up with this thread and I see they've made the livery even worse by the addition of a yellow front end now - presumably to try and reassure passengers that it's a city bus service not a private operator but also address the visibility concerns.

I wonder can Dublin Bus sue for trademark infringement as they look pretty much identical (as is the intention no doubt) from the front.

MJohnston · 09-09-2018 9:43pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Reading back as I'm only occasionally keeping up with this thread and I see they've made the livery even worse by the addition of a yellow front end now - presumably to try and reassure passengers that it's a city bus service not a private operator but also address the visibility concerns.

I wonder can Dublin Bus sue for trademark infringement as they look pretty much identical (as is the intention no doubt) from the front.

Could Dublin Bus sue the NTA? Are you serious?

devnull · 09-09-2018 9:44pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I wonder can Dublin Bus sue for trademark infringement as they look pretty much identical (as is the intention no doubt) from the front.

Be interesting if they did, since I'm not sure how DB could win that fight.

They'd have to prove that the livery is more for branding reasons than it is to help the disabled, since if it is to help the disabled, that would be the NTAs defence in any action you'd have thought and if DB argue it's for branding reasons rather than for the disabled, then it essentially removes the argument for having any yellow at all and the NTA could just repaint them blue.

In any case if DB do sue the NTA over such a thing, it won't leave much room to doubt that they see protecting their own brand and image as more important than serving the public in a coherent, integrated transport system.

Peregrine · 09-09-2018 10:07pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I wonder can Dublin Bus sue for trademark infringement as they look pretty much identical (as is the intention no doubt) from the front.

Not unless Dublin Bus has a trademark on the colour blue. Since we've been told that DB use the yellow front for visibility and no court will deny NTA the right to do the same.

Stephen15 · 09-09-2018 10:24pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I wonder can Dublin Bus sue for trademark infringement as they look pretty much identical (as is the intention no doubt) from the front.

They could also sue MacDiarmuida Coaches who have DB buses in a similar yellow and blue livery, Citylink, Callinans Coaches who have Ex DB buses with the navy stripe replaced with red and some UK bus operators who have ex DB buses still in DB livery with logos removed/replaced.

dublinman1990 · 10-09-2018 12:07am

Companies like McColls in Scotland & Happy AL's in Birkenhead have Volvo Olympians & ALX400's that are in their yellow Dublin Bus livery without it's logos over them.

Some of the Dublin Olympians from Happy AL's have a lot of variation in what they use for their official liveries. It's a mix mash of three separate sets of corporate liveries applied to every Olympian in their official fleet. To talk about examples here it looks like a complete mess when Happy AL's are concerned.

One set of them are all in maroon red with the Happy AL's logo.

Another set are coloured in white with red & blue stripes draped over it with the Happy AL's logo.

The third set all have the yellow Dublin Bus livery with Happy AL's logo on top of it.

McColls in Scotland on the other hand only one corporate livery applied for their own fleet.

Their previous livery was coloured in white with a red & green stripe on the bottom of the buses. The McColls logo was a mix of blue & yellow.

But when they purchase some of the old AVs that were sold from Dublin Bus in the present day; they leave the Dublin Bus livery on these buses for a temporary basis until they go through their repaint cycle with the new owners. In the meantime; they would apply a White McColls logo with a school bus sign applied on the front windscreen, UK reg plates & reformatted LED display to let passengers know that it is part of their official bus fleet.

McColls are very familiar with buying ex Dublin Buses before because they do own some RA's & WV's from the past few years.

The buses are now all coloured in a revised McColls official livery of in a lighter tone of white with the red & grey stripe over it on the bottom.

_Kaiser_ · 10-09-2018 9:17am

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

Qrt · 10-09-2018 10:04am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

Personally, I find the AVs horrible and they always stink. Ventilation is awful too.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:10am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

I can't think of a single one that has gone to a place where it has anywhere near a stressful life as they would on Dublin Bus.

They mostly go to private hire operators or ones that don't run intensive services or have limited operating hours.

Peregrine · 10-09-2018 10:14am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

What makes that so apparent?

Also, it's the NTA that are buying the new ones. I've heard complaints about the SGs but to suggest that they are rubbish compared to the aged, guzzling, polluting AVs is a stretch.

NuMarvel · 10-09-2018 10:19am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Reading back as I'm only occasionally keeping up with this thread and I see they've made the livery even worse by the addition of a yellow front end now - presumably to try and reassure passengers that it's a city bus service not a private operator but also address the visibility concerns.

I saw one of the 175s yesterday in front of a DB (77A I think), and I think the yellow, and the livery overall, looks well. The two buses looked distinct, but with enough commonality to let passengers know it's a public bus service. The one thing I'd change if I could is the teal/aqua stripe on the new livery, but it's not a deal breaker.

devnull · 10-09-2018 10:22am

The AVs are an extremely dated vehicle with the interior based on the 90s apart from a low floor element. There's no hope of getting someone out their car onto one of them.

The SGs are not perfect. The GTs were better. But they least look like a modern bus and I know many people who feel they are a step forward who use the bus now that never would before. The new vehicles helped shake off negative perceptions from non bus users who then became bus users.

Qrt · 10-09-2018 10:28am

NuMarvel wrote: »

I saw one of the 175s yesterday in front of a DB (77A I think), and I think the yellow, and the livery overall, looks well. The two buses looked distinct, but with enough commonality to let passengers know it's a public bus service. The one thing I'd change if I could is the teal/aqua stripe on the new livery, but it's not a deal breaker.

I firmly believe they should swap the direction of the teal stripe.

markpb · 10-09-2018 11:06am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

They're selling the buses to operators that are a lot smaller and have different requirements to Dublin Bus. There are several good reasons why they're following this approach. It's hard to argue with it when Ryanair are doing exactly the same. It gives them better passenger comfort, better fuel efficiency, less environmental impact, better reliability which means less need for spare rolling stock and repair stock, less impact to passengers and fewer mechanics needed. Likewise with Ryanair, standardising on a smaller number of vehicle types makes maintenance a lot easier and cheaper. Keeping a handful of old vehicles around because they're still working means keeping people proficient in how to maintain them and means keeping parts in stock for them or having the vehicle out of service for long periods while waiting for those parts to arrive.

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 4:54pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It still seems nuts to me that Dublin Bus are disposing of what are apparently still perfectly serviceable vehicles (the AV's) that are still in daily use elsewhere, and replacing them with inferior rubbish (IMO anyway) at taxpayer expense.

Most operators are withdrawing their ALX400s. Most London bus operators have sold them off now at this stage and replaced with newer Enviro 400 MMCs or Gemini 3s. Most of the operators that still have them are smaller firms who have bought them second hand for school runs, local services, park and rides and private hires.

punisher5112 · 10-09-2018 5:09pm

I find the av better to be around then an ax as the fumes off these are shocking.

I find most if not all 2016 sg models for some reason spew out quite an amount of black smoke.

Other years of sg don't.

Stevek101 · 10-09-2018 7:39pm

In October 2018 they will begin a phased takeover of 24 Transport for Ireland routes in the Outer Dublin Metropolitan Area, starting with routes 45A, 75, 184, 63, 185, 111 & 59.

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 7:47pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

All 14s to Donnybrook perhaps?

devnull · 10-09-2018 7:54pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

I see they have correct the info on the TFI website. Does anyone know what Dublin Bus changes we will see that Sunday?

40E will bs starting.

Stevek101 · 10-09-2018 7:55pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

All 14s to Donnybrook perhaps?

I had heard a large portion of shared routes going back to single garage such as 14, 15, 27.

I am interested to see how much of a frequency bump we are going to get.

Stephen15 · 10-09-2018 10:03pm

devnull wrote: »

40E will bs starting.

I wonder what the frequency will be like on that route. I'd say for it to be viable connection it will need to be every 20 mins or better.

dublinman1990 · 11-09-2018 1:35am

I just had a read of article on the 175 from DublinBusstuff.com. It makes some points about the livery itself in that the yellow painted over it is in Dublin Bus yellow. Also it shows a photograph of the USB ports placed on the walls on the top deck of the Go-Ahead Gemini's. I supposed the newer SG's in Dublin Bus have these ports placed behind the passenger seats upstairs & downstairs?

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

punisher5112 · 11-09-2018 8:04am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just had a read of article on the 175 from DublinBusstuff.com. It makes some points about the livery itself in that the yellow painted over it is in Dublin Bus yellow. Also it shows a photograph of the USB ports placed on the walls on the top deck of the Go-Ahead Gemini's. I supposed the newer SG's in Dublin Bus have these ports placed behind the passenger seats upstairs & downstairs?

http://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/GoAhead.html

USB port is on the wall at top of stairs at seat behind it.

This is same layout on db, rest on seats and ones at very front just below windscreen

XPS_Zero · 11-09-2018 9:09am

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:34am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

No problem with go ahead being British, but has a massive problem with the government replacing Irish state services with a foreign one.

This is very concerning to most people XPS. Many other Irish corrupt governments have been here before and sold us out. This one is doing it in stages with an upper class TD at the helm.

What people NEED to see here is a more expensive tender being given to a foreign company over an Irish one. That is a fact and stinks from hi heaven.

As a CIE employee, this will effect my job as some stage. And everyone in the semi state company. At some stage. And may even drive down wages across the industry.

As go Ahead pay less in wages and get the busses they claim to invest in for free, the money is going to the top, not the workers.

People should have a massive problem with that.

devnull · 11-09-2018 11:39am

dashcamdanny wrote: »

What people NEED to see here is a more expensive tender being given to a foreign company over an Irish one. That is a fact and stinks from hi heaven.

That is pure speculation - there is nothing factual to back up what you are claiming, other than what some sources have speculated. Just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it is true.

Also the nationality really hasn't got anything to do with it if you ask me. I prefer not to base what I think of people and companies on their nationality, more on what they actually do and the quality of their work.

Go Ahead pay less in wages and get the busses they claim to invest in for free, the money is going to the top, not the workers.

Dublin Bus have also been getting the vehicles for free as well...

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 11:48am

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:54am

devnull wrote: »

That is pure speculation - there is nothing factual to back up what you are claiming, other than what some sources have speculated. Just because someone says something, it doesn't mean it is true.

Also the nationality really hasn't got anything to do with it if you ask me. I prefer not to base what I think of people and companies on their nationality, more on what they actually do and the quality of their work.

Dublin Bus have also been getting the vehicles for free as well...

The tender being more expensive is something that was posted on this forum numerous times. I can only assume there is some truth in the fact somewhere . Why are the NTA hiding it?? Stinks..

Well for lot is irish citizens , nationality is very important. Looking after our own is something that should be a keystone of our society. Not selling us off to big foreign companies .

I never said Dublin bus did not get busses of the NTA, but Goahead clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland, when it was the Irish tax payer that did.

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 11:57am

MJohnston wrote: »

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

The wages are considerably less for the ground workers .. Irish residents. Now doing a job they could have been doing for Dublin Bus with better T & Cs and wages.

Dublin Bus has got alot better in recent years in quailty of service and still has work to do. But paying people less is not the way to fix it.

devnull · 11-09-2018 12:03pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The tender being more expensive is something that was posted on this forum numerous times. I can only assume there is some truth in the fact somewhere.

Just because people, often those who have a vested interest, keep saying it over and over again, it doesn't somehow make it true. For something to be true you have to be able to prove it, the whole, many people said it, so it must be true is a typical kind of tactic that is used when someone has no actual proof.

I never said Dublin bus did not get busses of the NTA, but Goahead clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland, when it was the Irish tax payer that did.

Do you have a link to a direct quote where this was the case?

dashcamdanny · 11-09-2018 12:24pm

devnull wrote: »

Just because people, often those who have a vested interest, keep saying it over and over again, it doesn't somehow make it true. For something to be true you have to be able to prove it, the whole, many people said it, so it must be true is a typical kind of tactic that is used when someone has no actual proof.

Do you have a link to a direct quote where this was the case?

David Brown the CEO in this video . He invests in lots of things apparently . People , plant and busses.

https://vimeo.com/279761747

devnull · 11-09-2018 12:53pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

David Brown the CEO in this video . He invests in lots of things apparently . People , plant and busses.

https://vimeo.com/279761747

David Brown is the CEO of the Go-Ahead Group overall.

He spoke about what Go-Ahead as a company does and all of what he said is true. He didn't 'clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland' as you are claiming, he was just speaking in relation to the company as a whole.

end of the road · 11-09-2018 1:41pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

You gotta love how the media is going negative on this the way they are the other changes, the big emphasis is "BRITISH firm GoAhead is to take over IRISH busses....DE BLEEDIN BRITS WILL OWN AR BUSSES!!! DE FEKIN BRITS!!!!"
This constant negativity from them is starting to get boring and predictable.

don't read it then.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Then you have the Soildarity/AAA/PBP/SWP/SP/ULA whatever their name is after the latest split this week, not understanding the difference between privatization and Luas model style competition.

well that's not surprising, and i think some wouldn't exactly blame them, given luas model style "competition" is only "competition" in the loose sense of the word. and even then it's simple tendering, as that is what "luas model style" "competition" is . it's not some unique being that's oh so different and unique to ireland, something we invented specifically for luas.
ultimately the user doesn't benefit from this supposed "competition" but from what the contracting authority puts in the contract. the contracting authority makes the decisians, puts it into the contract, and the user can like it or lump it. so no, i don't blame them for not knowing the nitty gritty between tendering and privatization, given that to the user, they may as well be interchangible, and the average person on the street does not have an interest in the fine details of public transport operations.

PeadarCo · 11-09-2018 2:05pm

end of the road wrote:

well that's not surprising, and i think some wouldn't exactly blame them, given luas model style "competition" is only "competition" in the loose sense of the word. and even then it's simple tendering, as that is what "luas model style" "competition" is . it's not some unique being that's oh so different and unique to ireland, something we invented specifically for luas. ultimately the user doesn't benefit from this supposed "competition" but from what the contracting authority puts in the contract. the contracting authority makes the decisians, puts it into the contract, and the user can like it or lump it. so no, i don't blame them for not knowing the nitty gritty between tendering and privatization, given that to the user, they may as well be interchangible, and the average person on the street does not have an interest in the fine details of public transport operations.

They aren't interchangeable and there is a massive difference. Under privatisation there is a complete free for all in terms of prices routes timetables etc.

Under tendering the government retains control of the overall service routes timetable etc but there is now competition when it comes to providing the service. If Dublin bus is so great tendering isn't going to be a threat. It a particular supplier can't or doesn't want to meet changing requirements there is always an alternative. It also means employee employer disputes at individual company can't shut down the entire network. Obviously that reduces the power of unions. However that doesn't matter, the whole point of a public transport system is that its run for the benefit of the users not anyone else. If its not doing that its not working.

Yggr of Asgard · 11-09-2018 2:50pm

devnull wrote: »

David Brown is the CEO of the Go-Ahead Group overall.

He spoke about what Go-Ahead as a company does and all of what he said is true. He didn't 'clearly state they invested in buses here in Ireland' as you are claiming, he was just speaking in relation to the company as a whole.

In fact, he clearly says "you have to invest in those buses and that is clearly what the NTA are doing" when discussing the kind of buses used.

Does he, in the beginning, talk about the company in a broader sense, quite possible, but he clearly points out the busses are NTA.

Yggr of Asgard · 11-09-2018 3:00pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I really doubt people care about where the company that gets these tenders is from. They didn't care about Veolia, don't care about Transdev, Kennedy Wilson, etc. etc. etc.

People care about their quality of service first and foremost, then one of the secondary concerns is "how many jobs for Irish residents does this company bring?".

I don't care who operates the bus I'm using, I do care that they show up on time, are safe and clean and the driver is operating the vehicle in a safe matter giving me a good journey and if possible for a good price.

I don't care if that is DB, BE, GOBUS, Aircoach, GoAhead or transdev. I leave it up to the NTA/TFI to sort that out on those routes where there is no actual competition for the journey I want to take.

If this would be a competition I would show up at a bus stop and I have the choice of the bus to use. Example swords to the city. I can choose Dublin Bus (41) or Swords Express (500). I can make the decision what I would like to use and pay. And believe it or not, at some times DB beats Swords Express for me in terms of value and comfort.

GoAhead is not competition for me, they are just operating a route on behalf of NTA/TFI. Will it be better, that depends, hopefully, it will lead to cheaper prices in the long run as the operating cost hopefully are taking into consideration the next fare discussion.

Why should the NTA/TFI not have the right to choose the best provider for the public good? Everybody here does it every day by deciding where to shop, where to buy petrol or which bus to use (where there is competition). Should the NTA/TFI not ensure that we get the best value for money?

vienne86 · 11-09-2018 4:39pm

This new 175 route goes near my home and I think I might use it - for the life of me, I can't find the real time information for it. Anyone know where I can get it?

Stephen15 · 11-09-2018 4:41pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Dublin Bus has got alot better in recent years in quailty of service and still has work to do. But paying people less is not the way to fix it.

Agreed but a lot of the reasons it has got better is because of the NTA. Leap Cards, RTPI and new buses has all been done by the NTA and not DB. I will criticize the NTA in some senses the whole livery fiasco has is a joke for example and some of the bus connects elements haven't been up to scratch in the way they're executing it.

Stephen15 · 11-09-2018 4:42pm

vienne86 wrote: »

This new 175 route goes near my home and I think I might use it - for the life of me, I can't find the real time information for it. Anyone know where I can get it?

TFI journey planner

MJohnston · 11-09-2018 4:49pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The wages are considerably less for the ground workers .. Irish residents. Now doing a job they could have been doing for Dublin Bus with better T & Cs and wages.

Dublin Bus has got alot better in recent years in quailty of service and still has work to do. But paying people less is not the way to fix it.

I'm sorry, but what has that got to do with your original point that people apparently need to see an Irish company run bus services over a foreign one?

You think foreign companies are more likely to push for lower wages than Irish companies? I see absolutely zero evidence of that being true.

XPS_Zero · 11-09-2018 5:06pm

It's not full privatization though, we've tried that in the UK we know it was a disaster, we also know total state monopoly with unchecked union power dominating the entire network and holding the public to ransom is a disaster.

This is a happy medium, one can disagree but I think it's a happy medium.

We do it with other things too, our hospitals and schools and Unis are not all nationalized they are technically independent entities, often legally charities, with state funding (even the ones erroneously called "private" which are really fee paying). Plenty of countries that are known as big lefty socialist places do it with their healthcare system, private hospitals with public funding or a mix with manditory insurance (not a model I'd advocate I prefer single payer but still it happens)

The system we had before the NTA was an utter embarrasement, and to think the govt of the day didn't even trust it's own rail company to run Metro and Luas so had to invent a new one out of whole cloth, that alone was a devestating indictment of the previous system.
The NTA are not perfect, I can see them sitting in a board room removed from the realities of the service IE would work with and know about, which is why they need to talk to each other all the time and plan together, but they are better than what we have before.

ffsake even under the much vaunted Luas model we still have them whinging about their f----g lunch!!!!

end of the road · 11-09-2018 5:18pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

It's not full privatization though, we've tried that in the UK we know it was a disaster, we also know total state monopoly with unchecked union power dominating the entire network and holding the public to ransom is a disaster.

This is a happy medium, one can disagree but I think it's a happy medium.

We do it with other things too, our hospitals and schools and Unis are not all nationalized they are technically independent entities, often legally charities, with state funding (even the ones erroneously called "private" which are really fee paying). Plenty of countries that are known as big lefty socialist places do it with their healthcare system, private hospitals with public funding or a mix with manditory insurance (not a model I'd advocate I prefer single payer but still it happens)

The system we had before the NTA was an utter embarrasement, and to think the govt of the day didn't even trust it's own rail company to run Metro and Luas so had to invent a new one out of whole cloth, that alone was a devestating indictment of the previous system.
The NTA are not perfect, I can see them sitting in a board room removed from the realities of the service IE would work with and know about, which is why they need to talk to each other all the time and plan together, but they are better than what we have before.

ffsake even under the much vaunted Luas model we still have them whinging about their f----g lunch!!!!

there is no unchecked union power in ireland. there is plenty of legislation around union activity. this supposed "holding the public to ransom" is not something tendering would stop.
my understanding is the reason for luas being separated out was to prevent any losses falling on CIE. it sounds more plausible then the government not trusting it's own rail company, a company which is ultimately in the situation it is because of the very government that owns it, who are either to stupid or to disinterested to insure it actually works.
this mythical "luas model" aka tendering, (the tendering which remember i said) wasn't invented in ireland and isn't a unique being designed for luas, was never going to stop industrial issues. anyone who thought otherwise was not living in the real world. what insures no industrial issues is a good management which talks with their staff, listens to their concerns and works with them to come up with a solution. management which make a genuine effort.

Tarabuses · 11-09-2018 5:19pm

MJohnston wrote: »

No, apologies, looks like you're right:

At a guess, someone has input the data incorrectly. Wonder if that's showing up on RTPI screens too though!

The planner is still showing Sandymount for 175 buses heading towards City West however the RTPI screen in Dundrum shows Kingswood. The screen in UCD doesn't show 175 times at all but has an information line saying that the 175 is now in operation!

Qrt · 11-09-2018 6:46pm

Tarabuses wrote: »

The planner is still showing Sandymount for 175 buses heading towards City West however the RTPI screen in Dundrum shows Kingswood. The screen in UCD doesn't show 175 times at all but has an information line saying that the 175 is now in operation!

Kingswood?? They ought to change that, considering it's a completely different Kingswood to that of the luas stop.

Tarabuses · 11-09-2018 8:03pm

Qrt wrote: »

Kingswood?? They ought to change that, considering it's a completely different Kingswood to that of the luas stop.

Sorry, I should have said Kingswood Avenue.

dashcamdanny · 12-09-2018 2:33am

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what has that got to do with your original point that people apparently need to see an Irish company run bus services over a foreign one?

You think foreign companies are more likely to push for lower wages than Irish companies? I see absolutely zero evidence of that being true.

We already have a state owned company already doing it! With 1000s of people employed. Getting a decent wage.

How can you see no evidence? Please consider the future... And how our sneaky politicians have always operated. Privatising State assets is not in the public interest as past events has clearly showed. New owners are driven by the need to increase shareholder returns. Full stop.

A driver in Go-ahead has a work his/her way upto 32k after a few years. With terrible T&Cs

In Dublin that means a family income support from welfare for a man/woman trying to provide for their family.

If they tender and win again, that means many DB drivers will have to transfer or be redundant, and have a crazy drop in wages after one year.

This has me and many others very very worried . Im bloody terrified to be honest.

I am well aware there are many, (especially here) that have a big problem with Dublin Bus for some reason or other, but the company is turning around with regard service, especially with the new blood coming in all the time.

FG selling us off and providing a watered down version of privatisation which will send large amounts of tax payers money to the rich and less to the guy working. In this case, a foreign companies shareholders.

And will ultimately effect the service

Stephen15 · 12-09-2018 8:20am

dashcamdanny wrote: »

We already have a state owned company already doing it! With 1000s of people employed. Getting a decent wage.

How can you see no evidence? Please consider the future... And how our sneaky politicians have always operated. Privatising State assets is not in the public interest as past events has clearly showed. New owners are driven by the need to increase shareholder returns. Full stop.

A driver in Go-ahead has a work his/her way upto 32k after a few years. With terrible T&Cs

In Dublin that means a family income support from welfare for a man/woman trying to provide for their family.

If they tender and win again, that means many DB drivers will have to transfer or be redundant, and have a crazy drop in wages after one year.

Not true if any current DB workers did have to switch over they would be entitled to a TUPE agreement whereby they will be entitled to the same T+Cs and pension as they are already getting.

Happens all the time in London Ile give a hypothetical example if Joe Bloggs drove the number 20 bus which is operated by Metroline and supposing Metroline lost the tender for that route to Arriva then Joe Bloggs would continue driving the number 20 bus with the same pay terms and conditions and pension he would get from Metroline. The same would apply if DB employees had to switch over to Go-Ahead or any other private operator. This is something you are entitled to under European law.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/transfer_of_business.html

MJohnston · 12-09-2018 8:21am

dashcamdanny wrote: »

We already have a state owned company already doing it! With 1000s of people employed. Getting a decent wage.

How can you see no evidence? Please consider the future... And how our sneaky politicians have always operated. Privatising State assets is not in the public interest as past events has clearly showed. New owners are driven by the need to increase shareholder returns. Full stop.

A driver in Go-ahead has a work his/her way upto 32k after a few years. With terrible T&Cs

In Dublin that means a family income support from welfare for a man/woman trying to provide for their family.

If they tender and win again, that means many DB drivers will have to transfer or be redundant, and have a crazy drop in wages after one year.

This has me and many others very very worried . Im bloody terrified to be honest.

I am well aware there are many, (especially here) that have a big problem with Dublin Bus for some reason or other, but the company is turning around with regard service, especially with the new blood coming in all the time.

FG selling us off and providing a watered down version of privatisation which will send large amounts of tax payers money to the rich and less to the guy working. In this case, a foreign companies shareholders.

And will ultimately effect the service

Again, just ranting, nothing about why you think an Irish private company running these routes would be better than a foreign one? Because that was your original claim. Feel free to reverse course on that one, as it seems you want to now that you're raving on about private companies in general.

devnull · 12-09-2018 8:29am

Personally I believe the quality of service offered to the public is more important than anything else, I note that the poster making the point about privatisation seemed to be more concerned with the welfare of the staff, rather than the public of which the service is set up to serve. The public must always come first in any public service.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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