Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

bk

end of the road wrote: »

the difference is the local barber would actually have competition which will benefit the user, rather then competition in the loose sense of the word that in real terms won't make any difference to the user.

What!! Of course there are benefits in real terms.

If it reduces the cost of running a particular route, then that frees up subsidy money to be used in other places or to expand services.

Also it stops companies from getting lazy and abusing their monopoly. If you have a monopoly and the NTA request changes to services (24/7 running, dual door use, etc.) and the company says no, then there isn't much they can do.

But if there are multiple companies it takes the power and control out of the hands of the individual company and places it back in the hands of the customer. The customer being the NTA directly in this case, the the public indirectly.

Monopolies are bad, whether public or private. Telecom Eireann was a bad monopoly, as was Eircom.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not seeing how that statement is relevant to anything. his argument isn't hallow either.

Exactly, it is not relevant. When consumers look to purchase a good or service, the salaries of the employees is not a concern. Nor is the nationality of the company or its shareholders a concern.

Foreign car makers are also taking money out of Ireland and adding to the profits of Korean or German companies.

But I don't see the Dublin Bus folks over in the Motors forum bemoaning when someone drops €40,000 on a new BMW car.

The arguments are very, very hallow. The concern is not the profiteering multi national nor the traveling public; it's because their power to bring Dublin to a stand-stead is being chipped away.

end of the road

salonfire wrote: »

Exactly, it is not relevant. When consumers look to purchase a good or service, the salaries of the employees is not a concern. Nor is the nationality of the company or its shareholders a concern.

Foreign car makers are also taking money out of Ireland and adding to the profits of Korean or German companies.

But I don't see the Dublin Bus folks over in the Motors forum bemoaning when someone drops €40,000 on a new BMW car.

The arguments are very, very hallow. The concern is not the profiteering multi national nor the traveling public; it's because their power to bring Dublin to a stand-stead is being chipped away.

the arguments are not hallow but valid. most foreign companies aren't taking public money out of the country. bmw isn't getting public funding. go ahead on the other hand is getting public funding. that is why people have an issue.
this so-called ability to bring dublin to a stand still isn't being chipped away because multiple companies do not guarantee against a full bus strike. very easy to for example, put in a pay claim at the same time across a few companies.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

the arguments are not hallow but valid. most foreign companies aren't taking public money out of the country. bmw isn't getting public funding. go ahead on the other hand is getting public funding. that is why people have an issue.

What people?

Very few people care less about who is driving their bus. The Luas is operated by a foreign company, yet people love the Luas and it is the most popular form of public transport in Ireland.

Clearly the general public couldn't care less.

Lots of foreign companies benefit from public funds. Most of our motorway network was built by foreign companies with public funds. I note that Irish Rails booking systems was built by a german company. Every single Irish Rail train and carriage is built by various foreign companies. DB buses are built by a foreign company. all funded by public funds.

What is the problem with any of the above?

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

the arguments are not hallow but valid. most foreign companies aren't taking public money out of the country. bmw isn't getting public funding. go ahead on the other hand is getting public funding. that is why people have an issue.
this so-called ability to bring dublin to a stand still isn't being chipped away because multiple companies do not guarantee against a full bus strike. very easy to for example, put in a pay claim at the same time across a few companies.

Funny that, when Dunnes Stores went on strike, I was able to get food in Tesco.

When Lyolds Pharmacies were on strike recently, I was able to go to an alternate.

Seems to me strikes across multiple companies are not that common in Ireland.

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

They have replaced pretty much * all the bus stops down in Cork with the shiny new ones. They look great, I assume the above is temporary and the new ones will come to Dublin soon too, I think there is a tender out for it.

* I say pretty much, because every one I saw is now new, but I'm sure someone can point out an exception somewhere that was missed. But the vast majority have certainly been replaced.

They have installed a few of the new ones along the 175 route. I hope they change the design not to mention the operator as it should be invisible to the user whether the service is operated by Go-Ahead or Dublin Bus at least only have the operators name in small print.

LuckyLloyd

salonfire wrote: »

TBH, I don't give a toss. Just like I don't care if the local barber has to drop his costs due to competition.


Funny, how I don't see the posters here complain about competition in other sectors of the economy.


Next time you are shopping for car insurance, will the employee wages be a factor in which company you choose? I doubt it which makes your argument very hallow indeed.

When all you can compete on is wages a race to the bottom is not in the interest of employees in all sectors / industries / roles.

Dub13

salonfire wrote: »

Funny that, when Dunnes Stores went on strike, I was able to get food in Tesco.

When Lyolds Pharmacies were on strike recently, I was able to go to an alternate.

Seems to me strikes across multiple companies are not that common in Ireland.

If you have a kid going to school on a bus driven by a lad just off a night shift driving a taxi to make ends meet you will start to care soon enough.

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

They have installed a few of the new ones along the 175 route. I hope they change the design not to mention the operator as it should be invisible to the user whether the service is operated by Go-Ahead or Dublin Bus at least only have the operators name in small print.

exactly, this really annoyed me. it just adds to confusion too, I overheard a polish woman on the bus stop asking if there was a taxsaver bus/luas she could get that included the 175. she'd no idea it was valid!

punisher5112

The new route doesn't accept db staff travel.

So it has started already where staff can't travel unless they pay.

Before anyone says this is right, db staff were given info stating they would be able to travel on all routes including those taken over from db.

soundman45

punisher5112 wrote: »

The new route doesn't accept db staff travel.

So it has started already where staff can't travel unless they pay.

Before anyone says this is right, db staff were given info stating they would be able to travel on all routes including those taken over from db.

And dublin bus allow go ahead drivers free travel i presume (not).

punisher5112

soundman45 wrote: »

And dublin bus allow go ahead drivers free travel i presume (not).

Ok

end of the road

soundman45 wrote: »

And dublin bus allow go ahead drivers free travel i presume (not).

it's not relevant as dublin bus drivers were told their travel would be excepted on services that were once with the company and which are no longer, and it seems this hasn't been stuck to.

if there has been an agreement that dublin bus will except any staff discounted or other travel benefit from another company, then they do except them and their travel, and like go ahead excepting dublin bus drivers staff travel, it must be enforced.

amcalester

end of the road wrote: »

it's not relevant as dublin bus drivers were told their travel would be excepted on services that were once with the company and which are no longer, and it seems this hasn't been stuck to.

if there has been an agreement that dublin bus will except any staff discounted or other travel benefit from another company, then they do except them and their travel, and like go ahead excepting dublin bus drivers staff travel, it must be enforced.

Who told them and was there ever such an agreement in place?

It seems strange that competing companies would be expected to honour competitors internal agreements. DO GA offer free travel to their own employees?

I'm assuming free staff travel is a DB initiative and not an NTA one.

loyatemu

end of the road wrote: »

it's not relevant as dublin bus drivers were told their travel would be excepted on services that were once with the company and which are no longer

but that's not the case with 175 - it's a new route.

LuckyLloyd

Take a step back here for two seconds. Surely it's in everyone's interests for DB drivers to be extended the privilege of free travel on GA routes and vice versa. I know some are blinded by ideology and want to strike blows for the wonders of the free market at every opportunity, but surely it would be a common sense low impact decision to help foster a slight bit of good will. No?

howiya

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Take a step back here for two seconds. Surely it's in everyone's interests for DB drivers to be extended the privilege of free travel on GA routes and vice versa. I know some are blinded by ideology and want to strike blows for the wonders of the free market at every opportunity, but surely it would be a common sense low impact decision to help foster a slight bit of good will. No?

Can't see a problem with it once it's reciprocated between the two companies. Doesn't even cost GA anything as fare revenue belongs to the NTA

sharper

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Take a step back here for two seconds. Surely it's in everyone's interests for DB drivers to be extended the privilege of free travel on GA routes and vice versa. I know some are blinded by ideology and want to strike blows for the wonders of the free market at every opportunity, but surely it would be a common sense low impact decision to help foster a slight bit of good will. No?

I don't have a problem with it but the last I want to hear about is threats of industrial action over it.

Dub13

Dub13 wrote: »

If you have a kid going to school on a bus driven by a lad just off a night shift driving a taxi to make ends meet you will start to care soon enough.

If he can't make ends meet, maybe he should reduce his spending?

Or, put in a bit of effort and upskill. There are double digit pay increases out there for anyone that wants them.

end of the road

sharper wrote: »

I don't have a problem with it but the last I want to hear about is threats of industrial action over it.

why would there be threats of industrial action over it. unless there is an actual agreement in place and it's not being enforced then industrial action won't make any difference.

salonfire wrote: »

If he can't make ends meet, maybe he should reduce his spending?

Or, put in a bit of effort and upskill. There are double digit pay increases out there for anyone that wants them.

he has reduced his spending to the absolute minimum and it still doesn't work, he can't afford to pay the bills without doing a couple of jobs.
upskilling isn't always viable either financially or other.

Dub13

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Take a step back here for two seconds. Surely it's in everyone's interests for DB drivers to be extended the privilege of free travel on GA routes and vice versa. I know some are blinded by ideology and want to strike blows for the wonders of the free market at every opportunity, but surely it would be a common sense low impact decision to help foster a slight bit of good will. No?

Should be like London with all transport work's getting free transport on the full network regardless of who they work for. Be a nice perk to working very unsocial hours.

Bray Head

What % of DB drivers use DB to get to work?

punisher5112

Bray Head wrote: »

What % of DB drivers use DB to get to work?

Who cares, they have to use it as part of many duties.

I know people working in offices on €70-€80k and they are given it for free not even under the tax free ones.

Management in cie, clerical staff get even more perks as they can travel on all.

Stephen15

Tfl staff are entitled to travel on all modes regardless of what bus operator they drive for. Bus staff are entitled to travel for free on buses, tube, tram and overground likewise tube staff are entilted to travel on buses for free. Should be the same here.

Stephen15

Bray Head wrote: »

What % of DB drivers use DB to get to work?

I would say many do. I see plenty of DB staff taking buses. How does the CIE pass work is scanned like a leap card or do you just show it to the driver. Most bus drivers seem to know each other so there's no need to scan it.

sharper

Dub13 wrote: »

Be a nice perk to working very unsocial hours.

If the transport network ran on unsocial hours it would be.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

Tfl staff are entitled to travel on all modes regardless of what bus operator they drive for. Bus staff are entitled to travel for free on buses, tube, tram and overground likewise tube staff are entilted to travel on buses for free. Should be the same here.

Go-ahead staff can only travel on Go-ahead vehicles...Dublin bus staff can can travel on GO-ahead bus once they have there travel pass

devnull

ax586 wrote: »

Stephen15 wrote: »

Tfl staff are entitled to travel on all modes regardless of what bus operator they drive for. Bus staff are entitled to travel for free on buses, tube, tram and overground likewise tube staff are entilted to travel on buses for free. Should be the same here.

Go-ahead staff can only travel on Go-ahead vehicles...Dublin bus staff can can travel on GO-ahead bus once they have there travel pass

Well if GoAhead staff can't travel on Dublin Bus then that is wrong. All staff should travel on each others service or none at all if you ask me.

ax586

devnull wrote: »

Well if GoAhead staff can't travel on Dublin Bus then that is wrong. All staff should travel on each others service or none at all if you ask me.

It was in the contract when go-ahead took over

AlekSmart

ax586 wrote: »

It was in the contract when go-ahead took over

Can you direct us to this Contract please ?...a link or even a screenshot ?

ax586

AlekSmart wrote: »

Can you direct us to this Contract please ?...a link or even a screenshot ?

Sorry Alex
I was training to day for go-ahead and was told this today

punisher5112

Well then staff at go ahead don't know what the craic is.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

The staff of Dublin bus have an agreement for free travel on the 10% routes but I can't remember if the 175 was in there for free travel or not


But as an agreement was made, Dublin bus staff are entitled to hold free travel on the likes of the 18 etc once they transfer over.

But I agree that if they want to do it right then it should be TFI free transport for all everywhere

Dub13

You have Dublin bus drivers parking there car in phibsboro and walking to start work in the city and back again on there break and then walking back to phibsboro when finished work. All the time a tram line is in full operation beside them. Its crazy as its a 15/20 min walk or a 5 min tram trip so from the NTA point of view should be more productive.

The same issue is happening in cunningham road garage with staff getting into and out of the city when starting and finishing work.

Its a silly setup and common sense should prevail here and all transport works should be free on transport in the city. There are 1,000s of transport workers in the city and free staff travel is one of the few benefits or perks they get for working 364 days a year and near 24/7. In London with its many different transport operators when you start working for any of the companies you get Free travel for you and a nominated partner/family member on the TfL network. I can not understand why its not the same here, it would not cost anything and would make it more attractive to work in all the companies.

dublinman1990

New press release is up on GAI's website about the rollout of their next phases in their Autumn/Winter schedules.

They called the 175 release "Phase 0". Whatever that means.

They will have Phase 1 & 2 commencing on the 7th & 21st of October.

They will have Phase 3 on the 2nd of December.

Phase 4 will remain unchanged on the 20th of January 2019.

Phase 0 - Route 175 – operational since 9th September 2018

Phase 1 - Routes 45A, 75, 63 & 59 – 7th October 2018

Phase 2 - Routes 111, 184 & 185 – 21st October 2018

Phase 3 - Routes 17A, 33A, 33B, 102, 104 & 220 – 2nd December 2018

Phase 4 - Routes 17, 18, 76, 76A, 114, 161, 236, 238, 239 & 270 – 20th January 2019

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/newsroom-2/go-ahead-gears-autumn-schedules/

Stephen15

My guess would be phase 3 and 4 would be divided over the course of a few weeks don't think they'll be all done at
once. Phase 1 and 2 were meant to be all done at once.

Dravokivich

Bray Head wrote: »

What % of DB drivers use DB to get to work?

It'll depend on their shifts. My da either drives, cycles or use the bus depending on the shift he's doing. Because they vary so much and their isn't a proper gradual step up / step down (Tuesday he was finishing the last run on his route, Wednesday was a relief day, Thursday he was up at 5am to do one of the first runs of his route) he drive more than the others.

He has the option to be marked in, but he doesn't take it because he knows someone else is going to lumped with those messed up patterns so doesn't see the point.

Stephen15

What about those staff shuttle buses that run in the wee hours especially for drivers to get to work. I wonder will GAI run any of them?

Dravokivich

The ghost bus seemed nothing more than novelty when my Da started with Dublin Bus. But it quickly wore off whenever there was a significant gap between it, his shift start, and any preceding services.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

What about those staff shuttle buses that run in the wee hours especially for drivers to get to work. I wonder will GAI run any of them?

They do

L1011

punisher5112 wrote: »

Who cares, they have to use it as part of many duties.

I know people working in offices on €70-€80k and they are given it for free not even under the tax free ones.

Management in cie, clerical staff get even more perks as they can travel on all.

CIE group staff only get the ticket required to get them to work and a few Irish Rail travel warrants a year on top of that. That works out as SHZ bus and rail for most but not all. Its not some all-system ticket

Stephen15

If there is going to be revised timetables on the 45a, 59, 63 and the 75 for when GAI start operating that will have to be released over the weekend surely in order for two weeks notice to be given so Ile keep my eyes peeled for any information.

devnull

Timetable changes for Phase 1 and Phase 2 now outlined on the Go-Ahead website with frequency increases indicated.

Phase 1– 45A, 75, 63 & 59
The NTA has given Go-Ahead Ireland an indicative date for switchover of services as Sunday 7th October 2018. Go-Ahead Ireland, in conjunction with the NTA, is aiming to have all timetables on their joint digital platforms (websites, twitter etc.) well in advance of implemention .

However, the following is a route by route guide to any changes made to the above routes.

45A /45B

Daytime frequency enhanced to every 20 minutes, and every 30 minutes each evening and Sunday daytimes.

Existing journeys diverting via Shanganagh Cliffs Estate are numbered 45B to distinguish them from the standard route, but apart from this the route is the same as the 45A.

59

Departure times between Dun Laoghaire and Dalkey and vice versa have been coordinated with service 111 where possible to offer more evenly spaced departures along these roads.

The route stays the same and there are no route variations.

63

Weekday daytime frequency remains every 30 minutes with first and last bus times broadly similar but enhanced to every 30 minutes each evening and Sunday daytimes.

75

Existing journeys via Sandyford Business Park will remain and be augmented at peak periods. These enhance the number of peak journeys between Dundrum and Tallaght.

The route is changed in Dundrum to now serve Main Street, Taney Road and Sydenham Road to allow for better travel opportunities with connections on to the Luas green line.

The timetable has been coordinated with the route 175 between Dundrum and Tallaght to offer more evenly spread departures throughout the day.

First and last journey times are similar and additional Sunday morning and evening journeys will be introduced.

Phase 2 – 111, 184 & 185
These services launch on Sunday, 21st October 2018.

111

On Mondays to Saturdays there are earlier trips from Dun Laoghaire towards Brides Glen to allow for better connections to the Luas green line.

A brand new Sunday service is being introduced to offer an hourly frequency, with the first journey from Brides Glen leaving at 09:33 and the final journey leaving at 23:33.

Departure times between Dun Laoghaire and Dalkey and vice versa have been coordinated with service 59 where possible to offer more evenly spaced departures along these roads.

The route stays the same and there are no route variations.

184

The timetable has been designed to connect with revised DART services at Greystones to and from Newtownmountkennedy.

The first and last journeys are broadly similar but the Mondays to Fridays evening frequency increases to every 30 minutes. On Saturdays and Sundays, there will be many extra journeys operating every 30 minutes, compared to current service provision of every hour on Saturdays and 2 hours on Sundays.

185

Significant improvements have been made to make the timetable easier to understand.

Each day, there will be departures every 30 minutes from Bray DART station to Palermo Estate, with one of these continuing every hour to Powerscourt via Enniskerry.

First and last journey times are similar to the current service except there earlier journeys on Sunday mornings.

StreetLight

Would have been an extra touch to see the trips on the 75 via Sandyford BD renumbered as 75A, but anyhow it's nice to see the dividends for extra capacity finally coming into play.

howiya

May have missed this but have DB announced what they'll be doing with their extra capacity once the changeover takes place?

loyatemu

devnull wrote: »

Timetable changes for Phase 1 and Phase 2 now outlined on the Go-Ahead website with frequency increases indicated.

I don't see this on their website - do you have a link?

soundman45

loyatemu wrote: »

I don't see this on their website - do you have a link?

FAQ link on their page

Stephen15

Any idea when the revised timetables will be published in full

Stevek101

Timetables up for the next set of routes.


https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/timetables/



45a Timetable Commences 7th of October
59 Timetable Commences 7th of October
63 Timetable Commences 7th of October
75 Timetable Commences 7th of October

devnull

Stevek101 wrote: »

Timetables up for the next set of routes.


https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/timetables/



45a Timetable Commences 7th of October
59 Timetable Commences 7th of October
63 Timetable Commences 7th of October
75 Timetable Commences 7th of October

Just posted a new thread here to discuss these to give it more prominence.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057914681