Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

CramCycle

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Who are these "people"?

And whats the point of busstop numbers if TFI doesnt use them properly? What was the point of investing in all those new blue signs.

An excellent question, what was the f'in point. Surely people would get to a bus stop and realise that it is not DB only, the new signs were pointless. Fair enough for places without them but replacing ones that were fine is just jobs for the boys at its finest

normanoffside

bk wrote: »

Seriously, the TFI app, DB app, Google Maps and Moovit app will all show you the bus stop you are currently standing at, based on the GPS location. No need for actually entering the bus stop number, which takes longer.

Also most of the above allow you to favourite your frequently used stops.

Also the TFI app takes and finds based on the bus stop number just fine.

The TFI Real Time app actually has an option that you can check that allows it to open to your favourites by default when you open the app. If not selected it opens to the Search/Nearby stops page showing nearby stops based on your GPS. In both cases the above is significantly faster and less button clicks then the DB app, which takes a few clicks to get to the same page.

The TFI app is certainly not perfect, but it is quiet a bit more modern designed then the DB app, which looks very old fashioned.

Having said all that, Moovit is vastly superior to all.

We obviously use the app for different things. I just want to check on my work bus before I leave home most days and it’s not the one nearest me by GPS. I just want to see if it’s on time and leave the house to get to the stop a few minutes before it’s due.

I don’t want to use the ‘Stops near me’ as the maps never seem to work and it’s too hard to click on the stop I want.

With the DB app it’s Open-favourites-done. Takes 5 seconds.

I have had a look at the TFI app a few times and I can’t undestand it at all.

AlmightyCushion

normanoffside wrote: »

We obviously use the app for different things. I just want to check on my work bus before I leave home most days and it’s not the one nearest me by GPS. I just want to see if it’s on time and leave the house to get to the stop a few minutes before it’s due.

I don’t want to use the ‘Stops near me’ as the maps never seem to work and it’s too hard to click on the stop I want.

With the DB app it’s Open-favourites-done. Takes 5 seconds.

I have had a look at the TFI app a few times and I can’t undestand it at all.

The realtime Ireland app lets you do the exact same thing.

Annasopra

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The realtime Ireland app lets you do the exact same thing.

Ugh

Why does TFI have 2 separate apps!!!!

Qrt

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ugh

Why does TFI have 2 separate apps!!!!

It's awful. The real time one is usable, but needs an overhaul pronto.

LuckyLloyd

bk wrote: »

Only when it works! There was a period of about two years when the GPS positioning stopped working completely and it wasn't updated for two years, making it pretty useless.

Google Maps is far better and Moovit is hands down the best app.

I use it everyday, it works well and I find it incredibly reliable. What period of time are you referring to?

devnull wrote: »

The transport for Ireland app is a public transport journey planner that includes all public transport in the state and simply allows people to plan a journey from one location to another.

The Dublin bus one omits a large number of public transport services and really requires knowledge of bus stop numbers. If I want to go somewhere new I won't know the bus stop number but I will know the place name or road.

I know what the TFI app is. My comment is on its design and usability. DB obv just provides coverage for its own services but it does that very well. The TFI app is clunky and difficult to use.

Obviously it would be nice for one app to do everything, but they should be taking their cues from the DB design team, not whoever has produced the TFI mess.

LuckyLloyd

By the by, Irish Rail's journey planner app is simple and easy to use too. If you have that and the DB app there's no need to use the TFI app set at all.

L1011

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By the by, Irish Rail's journey planner app is simple and easy to use too. If you have that and the DB app there's no need to use the TFI app set at all.

Unless you live in an area with GAI, BE or NTA franchise services which will be quite a lot of areas around Dublin soon

p_haugh

Other good apps are Next Bus Dublin and Next Train Ireland. Much better UI than the official DB app and easier to use. Next Bus Dublin is also being updated for the new GAI routes which is a bonus. I use Moovit as well which is also quite good.

curryman

DB were quick to remove the timetables from the web site 75 & 63 gone since 23:45

punisher5112

curryman wrote: »

DB were quick to remove the timetables from the web site 75 & 63 gone since 23:45

Why wouldn't they,???

The time table would be wrong, not run by them anymore and has nothing to do with them as and from the last buses last night.

XPS_Zero

They're all gone. Is GA using new buses the NTA got them or did they resticker the DB ones overnight?

devnull

XPS_Zero wrote: »

They're all gone. Is GA using new buses the NTA got them or did they resticker the DB ones overnight?

It's going to be a mixture of
- New vehicles to Go-Ahead
- Vehicles previously transferred from Dublin Bus, replaced by new ones in DB
- Vehicles to be transfered from Dublin Bus and replaced by new ones in DB.

punisher5112

XPS_Zero wrote: »

They're all gone. Is GA using new buses the NTA got them or did they resticker the DB ones overnight?

The transfers have been going on last few months so you will see a few Get type 2012-2013 then sg from 2014 up to now.

Anything 2018 182 reg are brand new to GA

GM228

XPS_Zero wrote: »

They're all gone. Is GA using new buses the NTA got them or did they resticker the DB ones overnight?

I believe most (if not all) the ex DB buses have received their repaints and most have had their re-repaints with yellow fronts where required.

coylemj

No sign of the 75 on the Real Time Ireland app, are they running today as a GAI service? Have several stops on the route (both ways) stored as favourites and there is no. 75 bus showing anywhere

Stephen15

coylemj wrote: »

No sign of the 75 on the Real Time Ireland app, are they running today as a GAI service? Have several stops on the route (both ways) stored as favourites and there is no. 75 bus showing anywhere

Gone off the real time app but yes GAI are operating it.

coylemj

Stephen15 wrote: »

Gone off the real time app but yes GAI are operating it.

TFI told us that we could track the GAI services using their Real Time app.

Edit: TFI have just tweeted this at 12:48 p.m. .......

Transport for Ireland is in the process of switching the real time information systems over to @GoAheadIreland following todays operator change on Routes 45a, 59, 63 & 75. This changeover is due to be completed shortly. In the meantime see https://bit.ly/2PIb4jD for service info

https://twitter.com/TFIupdates/status/1048902827588964352

devnull

coylemj wrote: »

TFI told us that we could track the GAI services using their Real Time app.

There's an issue at the moment that the NTA are attempting to resolve.

end of the road

i thought the data comes from the busses themselves?
what specific thing would need to be changed over that is causing the down time?

ED E

end of the road wrote: »

i thought the data comes from the busses themselves?
what specific thing would need to be changed over that is causing the down time?

Not directly I suspect. Busses will report back over their multiple cellular radios to GA servers which will then push RTPI related data to TII who'll then make it available via the API endpoints.

You'd expect it to be a few lines in a config but if they never tested it compatibility issues could arise in the chain of services that feed the app.

end of the road

ED E wrote: »

Not directly I suspect. Busses will report back over their multiple cellular radios to GA servers which will then push RTPI related data to TII who'll then make it available via the API endpoints.

You'd expect it to be a few lines in a config but if they never tested it compatibility issues could arise in the chain of services that feed the app.

good point, didn't think of that. all though i'm surprised the servers aren't directly under the NTA' control rather then being left to the bus companies. if they are doing this the way you have written it sounds like a bit of a long winded way to do it, but perhapse that's the only way?

Stephen15

Have the single deckers entered service yet on the 59 or are they due to enter service later on?

SG317

Unfortunately no single deckers have entered service yet. Today all of the routes were operated by SGs. 11501 ex SG4 was on the 59. 11524 which was on the 45A still has the Dublin Bus seat motique.

CramCycle

end of the road wrote: »

good point, didn't think of that. all though i'm surprised the servers aren't directly under the NTA' control rather then being left to the bus companies. if they are doing this the way you have written it sounds like a bit of a long winded way to do it, but perhapse that's the only way?

I don't know how they do it but that would certainly be a poor way of doing it (although wouldn't surprise me). Many DBs have a network connection on the bus, therefore why not have the bus report directly to the RPTI server. As you said, why they are not under direct control of the NTA also surprises me (and in another way, it wouldn't).

ED E

end of the road wrote: »

good point, didn't think of that. all though i'm surprised the servers aren't directly under the NTA' control rather then being left to the bus companies. if they are doing this the way you have written it sounds like a bit of a long winded way to do it, but perhapse that's the only way?

As far as I know its the same with DB.


Remember RTPI is breadcrumbs. Dublin Bus Ops watch the position of busses down to the meter but feed ambiguous RTPI data to the NTA. One benefit of this is it masks how crap they in terms of reliability/punctuality from the statistics.

dublinman1990

The Streetlites are definitely going on the 111, 184 & 185 from the 21st of October.

Yer Da sells Avon

Being longer than the Dublin Bus WS class, and also longer than a double-decker, the Streetlites aren't ideal for negotiating the roundabout at the Druid's Chair in Killiney. Although it seems a waste, having double-deckers on the 59, considering its low numbers and the fact that very few of its passengers are capable of climbing stairs.

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The Streetlites are definitely going on the 111, 184 & 185 from the 21st of October.

I would have thought the 184 gets a good enough loading to justify a double decker. They are suitable for the likes of the 111 and the 185 though. I would have thought the 59 would be fully operated by single deckers and the 63 would partially operated by single deckers.

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Being longer than the Dublin Bus WS class, and also longer than a double-decker, the Streetlites aren't ideal for negotiating the roundabout at the Druid's Chair in Killiney. Although it seems a waste, having double-deckers on the 59, considering its low numbers and the fact that very few of its passengers are capable of climbing stairs.

I know their longer than the WS class which are quite small and not much bigger than an old City Imp minibus. I have yet to see one in the flesh but I would have thought they would be a similar length to WV class bus which managed on the 59 or are they longer.

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know their longer than the WS class which are quite small and not much bigger than an old City Imp minibus. I have yet to see one in the flesh but I would have thought they would be a similar length to WV class bus which managed on the 59 or are they longer.

They are longer

punisher5112

I don't think the tail swing is big on the new ones though.

Nothing worse then a big tail swing when dealing with Dublin bus stops.

Designs of stops are shockingly bad and parking not enforced etc etc.

KD345

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.

This has been planned for months and is one of the biggest changes in the Dublin bus network. There was no excuse whatsoever for having no timetables on stops and shelters, not having real time displays and apps working, and absolutely no excuse for not having somebody online replying to passengers looking for information.

This changeover should have been flawless. It’s so frustrating seeing people on Twitter looking for information. We urgently need a TFI timetable page for passengers where all routes are displayed. This could be created in a few hours. There should be someone from TFI scanning all social media to reply to queries when routes change.

vectorvictor

KD345 wrote: »

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.
.

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

Go-ahead seem to have things together. Well presented fleet, drivers smartly outfitted and who were either cleverly chosen or who got a very good customer service course.

Alot of positive feedback from 175 users and they seem built to deal with things i.e. multiple times when stuck in traffic between 8am and 9am I have heard drivers being radioed to tell them their next duty is covered and run the return empty to make their third duty on time.

Alot of English accents on the radio so I think we are getting the benefit of people brought in with experience of running a solid operation

devnull

vectorvictor wrote: »

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

CramCycle

devnull wrote: »

You're making an assumption that the issues are down to the NTA, there are more than two parties involved in this matter.

Maybe not exactly but they are the overarching Project Managers for this, considering the timescales etc. the buck does stop with them as far as Joe Public is concerned. If it could not be delivered to a certain level by that date, they should have flagged that months ago.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

Db have been kicked out of it so please explain?

I think it's shocking bus stops have no info whatsoever.

All around say Dundrum, Dalkey, dun Laoghaire etc it's blank stop poles with a white sticker pull off on stop which had new extended display boards fitted.


Thc nta need to up their game as it's extremely poor.

I had people constantly at me today about the rtpi, where is my bus, what happened to it, excuse me what did you say ...... Yada yada yada


I shouldn't have to be putting up with this as I'm trying to drive as it's extremely stressful and can be distracting.


Isn't it funny how luas and train drivers are paid a lot more and have to deal with none of this none whatsover, yes they may well carry more but God they don't have to deal with half not even 25% of what we have to.

AlekSmart

vectorvictor wrote: »

Have to echo this.

NTA are really showing themselves to be an ill-prepared amateur outfit.

Go-ahead seem to have things together. Well presented fleet, drivers smartly outfitted and who were either cleverly chosen or who got a very good customer service course.

Alot of positive feedback from 175 users and they seem built to deal with things i.e. multiple times when stuck in traffic between 8am and 9am I have heard drivers being radioed to tell them their next duty is covered and run the return empty to make their third duty on time.

Alot of English accents on the radio so I think we are getting the benefit of people brought in with experience of running a solid operation

This is known as "Regulation" and is standard practice across the bus industry,it certainly has been standard practice in Bus Atha Cliath.

One wonders will there be Tweets now giving out about Go-Ahead Vehicles displaying "Out Of Service",as they "return empty" to make their time ?

As the reality of poor Traffic Management and even poorer Bus priority,becomes known to GA,then the need to make the Radio Call will disappear as the "extra-work" duty will be automatically deployed and the service driver will automatically "Blank it out" when reaching the terminus....;)

However,these practices are essentially accepting and deeming inevitable,these lost scheduled trips,and replacing them instead,with additional ad-hoc journeys,all of which have to be accounted for under the contract (presumably).

"Covered" Journeys all require additional resources to operate,and this carries with it a cost. :eek:

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

Today was the first real example of Go-Ahead operating current routes. From monitoring things this morning, Go-Ahead were pretty well organised. Buses were all smartly presented and operated mostly on time. The big disappointment for me was with the NTA. Not one stop had a new timetable, all the old times remained which meant passengers were looking at incorrect information. The real time was not functioning and there seemed to be nobody from TFI on twitter replying to confused passengers looking for information.

This has been planned for months and is one of the biggest changes in the Dublin bus network. There was no excuse whatsoever for having no timetables on stops and shelters, not having real time displays and apps working, and absolutely no excuse for not having somebody online replying to passengers looking for information.

This changeover should have been flawless. It’s so frustrating seeing people on Twitter looking for information. We urgently need a TFI timetable page for passengers where all routes are displayed. This could be created in a few hours. There should be someone from TFI scanning all social media to reply to queries when routes change.

Ile give it to them for today it was a Sunday traffic wasn't too bad if people looked at the journey planner the timetabled information was likely fairly accurate for today for those reasons. If the issues persist throughout the coming days or worse still weeks then that would completely unacceptable.

The thing is the NTA are on a bit of a learning curve at the moment switching from a just a regulator to also being a provider of public transport. I thought they sorted out the real time issue with 175 but it appears not and they are now having difficulty with the other routes which have now switched over. Look at the whole livery fiasco aswell.

On another I notice GAI buses are using running numbers. I wonder was this something decided by GAI themselves or by the NTA.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

Either the NTA are responsible for passenger information or they’re not. If they were not ready to launch bus timetables and real time information to passengers today then they should have pushed the date back. This has been in the works for over a year now, any potential issues should have been ironed out before now.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

That's assuming the issues are down to the NTA and not other factors external to both them and Go-Ahead.

The bus stop situation is less clear, there has been talk that the bus stops belong to Dublin Bus and now the last I heard because of this we might start to see some NTA and Dublin Bus stops next to each other.

Currently there is a programme to rebrand 1,700 shared Bus Stops specific to the BMO programme.
This is a stopgap,in advance of the longer-term programme to replace ALL Bus Stop infrastructure in the GDR.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

Either the NTA are responsible for passenger information or they’re not. If they were not ready to launch bus timetables and real time information to passengers today then they should have pushed the date back. This has been in the works for over a year now, and potential issues should have been ironed out before now.

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

It's widely known services were been taken.

Why should db have to?

I don't understand to be honest?

Why should they brunt the cost and not getting paid?

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

vectorvictor

Stephen15 wrote: »

On another I notice GAI buses are using running numbers. I wonder was this something decided by GAI themselves or by the NTA.

What are running numbers?

vectorvictor

punisher5112 wrote: »

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

Why? Go-ahead are operating "on behalf of" NTA so it's not their job. NTA are getting the fare box and are the ultimate "provider" so it's their job

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's widely known services were been taken.

Why should db have to?

I don't understand to be honest?

Why should they brunt the cost and not getting paid?

GA took over it's up to them to tell the people.

Because they're supposed to be a public service company who serves the public before their own interests, unlike those evil, commercial companies who put their private interests ahead of that of the passenger?

Writing an article on the front page saying the routes will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus and to go to Transport for Ireland or Go-Ahead doesn't cost anyone any money and it will help the public, who they allegedly put first.

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Stephen15

vectorvictor wrote: »

What are running numbers?

Drivers displaying their duty number at the front of the bus. GAI are using a four digit code.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Because they're supposed to be a public service company who serves the public before their own interests, unlike those evil, commercial companies who put their private interests ahead of that of the passenger?

Writing an article on the front page saying the routes will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus and to go to Transport for Ireland or Go-Ahead doesn't cost anyone any money and it will help the public, who they allegedly put first.

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Look at the 75 for example there are two stops on that route in Dundrum which are no longer being used. A passenger could have turned up at one of those stops only to discover that those stops are no longer being served.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

Sure but do you understand that if they keep pushing things back if they were not perfect then nothing would ever get launched and that kind of mindset would lead to situations where people would intentionally drag their heels to delay something that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Theory and practice are two different things unfortunately, you can have all the agreements and processes written you like, but if someone doesn't play ball, despite saying they would, or something unexpected happens then that all goes out of the window. I'm not saying that it's happened here, but still.

Dublin Bus should have informed their patrons that their services were moving to another company via a news article but they decided to just not bother informing them as well, so believe me they don't come out of this smelling of roses either because any publicly funded operator should do better than that.

Also it's not like timetables changing and not being updated at bus stops is a new thing, it was endemic during network direct and a short while after, at that point many of the buses couldn't even display the correct route information on the front of them, in some cases this went on for weeks rather than days!

I certainly agree that today's launch has not been ideal and of course the NTA are going to have to take their share of the blame for that since some of this could have been foreseen and it could have been handled different. Lets see what the rest of the week brings, hopefully whatever issues there are because I agree the public deserve better.

I understand the points you make, but if you are the regulator and take on the responsibility of creating a transport brand (TFI) then you need to stand up to that role. Whatever is going on behind the scenes it is unacceptable that there is somebody standing at a bus stop this evening with an incorrect timetable and no real time information. If they check the Dublin Bus there is no information and there is no help on Twitter.

You’re right there were issues with timetables and displays during the first phase of Network Direct, but subsequent phases were mostly all timely and correct, and some of these changes were far more widespread across the city than what we had today. I don’t think we should be using problems that occurred 7 years ago as an excuse. If anything, the NTA should have learned from any past errors.

punisher5112

vectorvictor wrote: »

Why? Go-ahead are operating "on behalf of" NTA so it's not their job. NTA are getting the fare box and are the ultimate "provider" so it's their job

Then it's not up to db.....