Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

MJohnston

Calling it an "IT" issue tells you all you need to know about the lack of software developers at those companies. Nobody in tech ever calls it "IT".

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

Calling it an "IT" issue tells you all you need to know about the lack of software developers at those companies. Nobody in tech ever calls it "IT".

In fairness, the social media person might not be a tech person.

Stephen15

CatInABox wrote: »

As expected, an IT issue. Sorted tomorrow.

Hopefully

Dravokivich

MJohnston wrote: »

Calling it an "IT" issue tells you all you need to know about the lack of software developers at those companies. Nobody in tech ever calls it "IT".

We don't?

Stephen15

Dublin Bus have updated their website to acknowledge that certain routes have moved to Go-Ahead. Bit late now might probably have only posted it now after all the angry reaction on Twitter and people asking "where's my 75 or my 63". They should also take the time to inform us about the 111, 184 and 185 changing to avoid a repeat.

LuckyLloyd

Stephen15 wrote: »

Dublin Bus have updated their website to acknowledge that certain routes have moved to Go-Ahead. Bit late now might probably have only posted it now after all the angry reaction on Twitter and people asking "where's my 75 or my 63". They should also take the time to inform us about the 111, 184 and 185 changing to avoid a repeat.

Or the NTA should publicize this stuff they control and run properly? And round and round we go...

bk

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Or the NTA should publicize this stuff they control and run properly? And round and round we go...

You mean the information that is right their in big bold on the front page of https://www.transportforireland.ie and which links to the following detailed explanation:

https://www.transportforireland.ie/go-ahead-ireland/

MJohnston

Dravokivich wrote: »

We don't?

IT is, in my experience, largely used to specifically describe helpdesks and the teams that take care of internal software admin and hardware for personnel. So yeah, most people in tech say that they work "in tech".

I'd imagine the problem here is very unlikely to be anything to do with that.

vectorvictor

MJohnston wrote: »

IT is, in my experience, largely used to specifically describe helpdesks and the teams that take care of internal software admin and hardware for personnel. So yeah, most people in tech say that they work "in tech".
.

Think you've gone off on your own little tangent here trying to convince yourself that the statement you made makes sense.

People who work in IT either say they work in IT or specifically describe their function i.e. "I'm a php developer"

You've just made up a load of nonsense with your "in tech"

MJohnston

vectorvictor wrote: »

Think you've gone off on your own little tangent here trying to convince yourself that the statement you made makes sense.

People who work in IT either say they work in IT or specifically describe their function i.e. "I'm a php developer"

You've just made up a load of nonsense with your "in tech"

My point is that most people who are developers don't describe themselves as working "in IT" (for people working in the tech sector, 'IT' is merely a subcategory within it that has a specific meaning) unless they're talking to their grannies.

So when I see a tweet from the NTA saying it's an "IT problem", it becomes pretty clear that they've not got anyone within the organisation that is a developer (which was all I originally said), and they're working with third-party contractors for app development. An actual example of an IT problem would be that their Office 365 license expired!

Which is part of the problem they're encountering during this handover - they don't have any actual developers so they've probably tried to change the app way too late.

XPS_Zero

Don't you know one of the rules of the human mind when interacting with others through the prisim of social media?


"The entire world exists for everyone else the same way as it does through me, they should see things how I see things, exp things as I do, if they don't something is wrong with them", it's right up there with being allowed to have passionate angry foam at the mouth opinions on things you know nothing about (the most sacred right of the internet user).

vectorvictor

MJohnston wrote: »

So when I see a tweet from the NTA saying it's an "IT problem", it becomes pretty clear that they've not got anyone within the organisation that is a developer (which was all I originally said), and they're working with third-party contractors for app development. An actual example of an IT problem would be that their Office 365 license expired!

You do know IT is information technology and not a person or people? An IT problem could be hardware, software or human intervention required. Their statement is perfectly correct.

You don't understand what IT even is and are trying to preach that they are wrong.

The example you posted about office is absolutely not an IT problem and demonstrates your flawed logic. No technical or IT failure / issue exists. It is simply a first line helpdesk issue i.e. "give me a product key"

CramCycle

What it means is their social media person has been told it is a computer problem, not to go into detail. Then the social media person said IT problem. How is this even a discussion, I wouldn't expect the twitter account to go into anything deeper.

vectorvictor

CramCycle wrote: »

How is this even a discussion, I wouldn't expect the twitter account to go into anything deeper.

It probably shouldn't be but when someone with no knowledge of an industry makes sweeping statements then it creates a false impression for other readers who make take it as fact. That should imo be called out.

This conversation should probably be continued on the "in tech" forum...

CramCycle

I wonder did the NTA try turning it off, then turning it on again, solves most IT issues :pac:

AlekSmart

CramCycle wrote: »

I wonder did the NTA try turning it off, then turning it on again, solves most IT issues :pac:

The NTA have had a significant presence of TfL staff on contract to set-up the 175 RTPI,but it seems unforceen "issues" arose which are proving challenging to address.

MJohnston

vectorvictor wrote: »

It probably shouldn't be but when someone with no knowledge of an industry makes sweeping statements then it creates a false impression for other readers who make take it as fact. That should imo be called out.

This conversation should probably be continued on the "in tech" forum...

No knowledge of an industry I've worked in for 10 years, sure...go and have a look for "IT" teams in Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, or any other more modern tech company, I guarantee you the definitionin the industry has changed. I encounter this outdated definition every time I have to fill out a bank form, and the only sector available to cover any type of job that involves a computer is "IT".

Anyway, now that you've made this tangent go perpendicular, I'll leave it at this: the NTA have clearly made a mistake of not having a more communicative relationship with their tech contractors, and they've been left high and dry as a result. Too many non-tech companies do this, they treat it as an afterthought in a world where it is now integral.

punisher5112

Is this an IT thread or a go ahead thread???

Where is there an IT guy when ya need one.

bk

MJohnston, LOL, I'm a software engineer and when people ask, I just say "I work in IT", if they show interest I'll specify Software Engineer and go into the details of what I do.

But for 80% of people IT is enough and their eyes gloss over.

MJohnston

bk wrote: »

MJohnston, LOL, I'm a software engineer and when people ask, I just say "I work in IT", if they show interest I'll specify Software Engineer and go into the details of what I do.

But for 80% of people IT is enough and their eyes gloss over.

Yep, it's a pain in the arse. "ah you work with the old computers, can you fix my printer?" :rolleyes:

Stephen15

Still no sign of RTPI working on Go-Ahead services

StreetLight

The whole switchover should have been absolutely seamless for the end user. It seems to have been anything but.

punisher5112

So there was huge delays on 75, 45a etc yesterday.

People waiting 70 minutes and no show on which is now a 20 minute service, 45a was also lost up at loughlinstown hospital roundabout heading towards Bray.

They need to look at better driver training.

Someone was on Twitter this morning asking what their policy is on use of mobile phones also. Driver was using it.

Qrt

punisher5112 wrote: »

Someone was on Twitter this morning asking what their policy is on use of mobile phones also. Driver was using it.

I don't think they'd have much of a policy considering it's illegal in every sense.

punisher5112

Qrt wrote: »

I don't think they'd have much of a policy considering it's illegal in every sense.

I understand that, just stating that's what passenger asked.

soundman45

I think they have made a big mistake in using so many new drivers. They have no experience driving a bus, no experience dealing with customers, ticketing etc, some do not seem to even be fimiliar with the city. I was on a 45a yesterday in fairness the driver was grand he must have done it before but one guy asked him was the route changed as the previous bus driver (45a) told him he didnt serve bray. Now im happy to accept drivers need to bed in but I think having such a high percentage of raw new drivers was a bad move.

dashcamdanny

soundman45 wrote: »

I think they have made a big mistake in using so many new drivers. They have no experience driving a bus, no experience dealing with customers, ticketing etc, some do not seem to even be fimiliar with the city. I was on a 45a yesterday in fairness the driver was grand he must have done it before but one guy asked him was the route changed as the previous bus driver (45a) told him he didnt serve bray. Now im happy to accept drivers need to bed in but I think having such a high percentage of raw new drivers was a bad move.

They will learn quick. And we will see a high number leaving after a few months as well.

Its stressful as hell at the start , even with an established company with supports in place. GoAhead drivers dont even have that, and it seems to be a case of "the blind leading the blind". I dont envy them. especially not for the money they are on.

Dravokivich

soundman45 wrote: »

I think they have made a big mistake in using so many new drivers. They have no experience driving a bus, no experience dealing with customers, ticketing etc, some do not seem to even be fimiliar with the city. I was on a 45a yesterday in fairness the driver was grand he must have done it before but one guy asked him was the route changed as the previous bus driver (45a) told him he didnt serve bray. Now im happy to accept drivers need to bed in but I think having such a high percentage of raw new drivers was a bad move.

I recall hearing the wages on offer, being lower than what drivers would get where they are currently working. So why would anyone give up their job to move across, to do the same work for less?

Route familiarity will develop with time. I grew up and live in Dublin, I'm unfamiliar with 70% of it, because I've never had to go there.

CatInABox

Dravokivich wrote: »

I recall hearing the wages on offer, being lower than what drivers would get where they are currently working. So why would anyone give up their job to move across, to do the same work for less?

Route familiarity will develop with time. I grew up and live in Dublin, I'm unfamiliar with 70% of it, because I've never had to go there.

I believe that drivers could transfer across while keeping their current terms and conditions for a year, at which point they could be renegotiated, but not be any worse than what they currently have.

Dravokivich

CatInABox wrote: »

I believe that drivers could transfer across while keeping their current terms and conditions for a year, at which point they could be renegotiated, but not be any worse than what they currently have.

That's only if drivers were required to transfer over, as opposed to seeking work elsewhere. Drivers weren't required to transfer with the routes, as DB were going to get increased frequency on remaining services, so they'd be looking for drivers after releasing drivers. Didn't make sense to have 2 operators doing a major recruitment program.

coylemj

63 & 75 now showing on the TFI Real Time App. I'm not familiar with the other GAI routes, those are the ones I'm interested in.

coylemj

Is there a map of the new 75 route available anywhere? I can see the list of stops but would like to see a map to understand the new routing in Dundrum.

devnull

coylemj wrote: »

Is there a map of the new 75 route available anywhere? I can see the list of stops but would like to see a map to understand the new routing in Dundrum.

https://journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie/nta/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?itdLPxx_page=rop&language=en

Stephen15

A lot of the problems seem to relate to the 75. I wonder is it due to the riddiculous decision to start running it via Dundrum Village whoever in the NTA has no experience of using 75. Riddiculous move. I would hope common sense prevails and the route switches back to it's old routing going past Dundrum Garda Station.

dfx-

Dravokivich wrote: »

I recall hearing the wages on offer, being lower than what drivers would get where they are currently working. So why would anyone give up their job to move across, to do the same work for less?

Route familiarity will develop with time. I grew up and live in Dublin, I'm unfamiliar with 70% of it, because I've never had to go there.

Maybe for customers, but it's an important thing for bus drivers to do route training. To know the route and know the local area or streets.

What have they been doing to prepare for this information and these types of normal questions? Driving in circles in Ballymount? Was this sort of knowledge and preparedness in the tender...

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

What have they been doing to prepare for this information and these types of normal questions? Driving in circles in Ballymount? Was this sort of knowledge and preparedness in the tender...

Go-Ahead buses have been out for the last couple of months doing route training. I've seen a good few out and about around South Dublin. Do people here seriously believe no DB driver has ever taken a wrong turn. Back in 2001 a brand new AV was made an open top bus while on diversion during the St.Patricks Day Parade.

coylemj

Stephen15 wrote: »

A lot of the problems seem to relate to the 75. I wonder is it due to the riddiculous decision to start running it via Dundrum Village whoever in the NTA has no experience of using 75. Riddiculous move. I would hope common sense prevails and the route switches back to it's old routing going past Dundrum Garda Station.

+1 that new detour reminds me of the loop the 46A used to do past Stillorgan shopping centre - it was convenient for a few people but a PITA for everyone else. The greater good was well served by cutting it out.

I have stood on the hill beside Dundrum College on many occasions waiting for the 75 and the arrival time was always way after what was predicted on RTPI. Adding that loop around Dundrum will make it worse.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

dfx- wrote: »

What have they been doing to prepare for this information and these types of normal questions? Driving in circles in Ballymount? Was this sort of knowledge and preparedness in the tender...

Go-Ahead buses have been out for the last couple of months doing route training. I've seen a good few out and about around South Dublin. Do people here seriously believe no DB driver has ever taken a wrong turn. Back in 2001 a brand new AV was made an open top bus while on diversion during the St.Patricks Day Parade.

I've also been offered a free fare on Dublin Bus to show driver a route in the past when the driver recognised me from another route and can recall two or three more occasions where a driver asked passengers for directions.

Yer Da sells Avon

Stephen15 wrote: »

Go-Ahead buses have been out for the last couple of months doing route training. I've seen a good few out and about around South Dublin. Do people here seriously believe no DB driver has ever taken a wrong turn. Back in 2001 a brand new AV was made an open top bus while on diversion during the St.Patricks Day Parade.

A driver in Bray once forgot he was driving a double decker and drove under the bridge beside the bus depot (out of service, thankfully). It was no longer a double decker by the time he was finished with it anyway.

CramCycle

I got on the 17 one morning and the driver had never been on the route and did not even know the endpoint. I directed him for the first half, and pointed him in the general direction. It was at 630am so few enough on the bus but I was so tempted to get him to drop me home

Tarabuses

Stephen15 wrote: »

A lot of the problems seem to relate to the 75. I wonder is it due to the riddiculous decision to start running it via Dundrum Village whoever in the NTA has no experience of using 75. Riddiculous move. I would hope common sense prevails and the route switches back to it's old routing going past Dundrum Garda Station.

I wonder how much time is being added by this diversion during peak times. I doubt that passengers appreciate the detour and hopefully they will press for the previous direct routeing to be reinstated.

.G.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Go-Ahead buses have been out for the last couple of months doing route training. I've seen a good few out and about around South Dublin. Do people here seriously believe no DB driver has ever taken a wrong turn. Back in 2001 a brand new AV was made an open top bus while on diversion during the St.Patricks Day Parade.

devnull wrote: »

I've also been offered a free fare on Dublin Bus to show driver a route in the past when the driver recognised me from another route and can recall two or three more occasions where a driver asked passengers for directions.

Yup. I drove for DB for a few years. I was given route training on some routes but not all of them. When sent out on a route I didn't know I was simply told "you'll know it when you get back" :rolleyes:

I had to do the same, ask a passenger to show me. I also took wrong turns on a few occasions. Driving routes that both go the same way but then branch into different area's, you sometimes forget which route your actually driving!

Tickityboo

devnull wrote: »

I've also been offered a free fare on Dublin Bus to show driver a route in the past when the driver recognised me from another route and can recall two or three more occasions where a driver asked passengers for directions.

Most likely a driver who got the duty off the bench.
I doubt that they had been route training for months and not know the route.
It's 5 different routes for **** sake!!

Aw139

The Nta made the new timetables..drivers covering 59 ..45A ..75..63 on one duty board..so If the driver is late due to traffic coming to dun Laoirghre to start a 63 or 63A over to kilternan and back to dun Laoirghre and then is late for a 75 or 75a .. also drivers pushed to sign off routes in route training ..the routes or some of ..should be all on there own rota like db. But gai have the 45A 59 63 63A 75 75A all on one Rota and duties so it's a mixed bag of a disaster . and then driver changes in dun Laoirghre ..probably late break and waiting for a bus that is late to do a change over for their 2nd half....ps very little time for toilet breaks .

punisher5112

Where are they breaking in fun Laoghaire...

As in facilities

devnull

Leaflets have now been produced for all the four new services:

Route 45A/B
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-45ab-Timetable.pdf

Route 59
https://www.transportforireland.ie/routeb-59-timetable-081018/

Route 63/63A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-63a-Timetable-1.pdf

Route 75/75A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-75a-Timetable-1.pdf

Stephen15

Tickityboo wrote: »

I doubt that they had been route training for months and not know the route.
It's 5 different routes for **** sake!!

Usually training consists of a driving the route once out of service with instruction that is what I believe is standard practice is most bus companies. They have been out training various different drivers on different routes over that period.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

Leaflets have now been produced for all the four new services:

Route 45A/B
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-45ab-Timetable.pdf

Route 59
https://www.transportforireland.ie/routeb-59-timetable-081018/

Route 63/63A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-63a-Timetable-1.pdf

Route 75/75A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-75a-Timetable-1.pdf

This is great to see but these are not new services. Was there a similar leaflet produced for the 14, 61 and 120 timetable changes last weekend?

I risk sounding pedantic, but the amount of different timetable styles is becoming very confusing. We now have the TFI leaflet/PDF format, the Go-Ahead web format, the old Dublin Bus style, the journey planner/a-b style, and the new on street format produced for multi operator stops. Each of them are read in a different way, some have different descriptions of destinations and route details, and some are missing key information. It’s really not great for passengers.

Stephen15

KD345 wrote: »

This is great to see but these are not new services. Was there a similar leaflet produced for the 14, 61 and 120 timetable changes last weekend?

I risk sounding pedantic, but the amount of different timetable styles is becoming very confusing. We now have the TFI leaflet/PDF format, the Go-Ahead web format, the old Dublin Bus style, the journey planner/a-b style, and the new on street format produced for multi operator stops. Each of them are read in a different way, some have different descriptions of destinations and route details, and some are missing key information. It’s really not great for passengers.

Agreed I also noticed timetables have now gone up at some of the stops with the new extended timetable turntable boards. These are also of a different style to the ones along the 175 similar to the ones that can be seen on the TFI website. I assume these are temporary in nature while stop specific timetables are being published.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Agreed I also noticed timetables have now gone up at some of the stops with the new extended timetable turntable boards. These are also of a different style to the ones along the 175 similar to the ones that can be seen on the TFI website. I assume these are temporary in nature while stop specific timetables are being published.

Do you have pictures? They really should be using the same ones that went for the new stops for the 175 for the new services, since these are the best ones.