Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Joegriffin2019

Going down south apparently.

soundman45

I think the BE Waterford city services are using Streetlites identical to the GA ones

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Oh god I don't want the displeasure of driving a streetlite

I'd say they're more likely for BE in Cork, Limerick or Galway. Thought 40 single deckers was probably a bit too much for GAI considering they can't operate the likes of the 59 and aren't on any DL routes bar the 111. The 63 and 114 can cope with single deckers for most departures but they aren't using them while the 102 is struggling with them and there seems to lesser capacity issues with them on the 184 and 270 during school hours.

Stephen15

soundman45 wrote: »

I think the BE Waterford city services are using Streetlites identical to the GA ones

I think BE are due something like 88 Streetlites for they have about 18 in Waterford atm I believe so there'll be more for Cork, Limerick, Galway and the town services in Athlone and Sligo I'd imagine.

ax586

Joegriffin2019 wrote: »

Go Ahead to get at least 5 more SG type next month. Some street lites may be moving....

It's 8

p_haugh

Got the 17 to and from Blackrock today. Way down was no problem, bus was on time and all.

When getting the return bus though, it left the terminus 10 minutes early. Managed to catch it at the 2nd stop as it was stuck in traffic.
To make matters worse, when it came to my stop, I pressed the buzzer and went to the front. Driver proceeded to sail by the stop like it wasn't there
He realised and let me off at the next stop, must've just started and was a bit rusty.

Weird thing is, another 17 passed me 5 minutes later and it wasn't on the RTPI or timetable

Joegriffin2019

ax586 wrote: »

It's 8

Even better if true, heard it was 5 next month until streetlite situation is sorted.

p_haugh

Joegriffin2019 wrote: »

Even better if true, heard it was 5 next month until streetlite situation is sorted.

Will GAI be getting any of the shorter wheelbase Streetlights?

Stephen15

p_haugh wrote: »

Will GAI be getting any of the shorter wheelbase Streetlights?

Actually heard a rumour they may be swapping 3 streetlites for the shorter WM class streetlites in Waterford which are around the same length as the DB WS class so they can operate the 59.

Stephen15

I've also heard the 18 and the 76/a launch will be delayed now until the new buses are delivered which will likely be late Feburary or early March. This may suggest that the new buses will be in addition to the GAI fleet rather than as replacements for streetlights which would bring up the GAI fleet to 133 buses rather than 125 as it's being said extra buses are required due to demand so perhaps there may be revised timetables aswell with more buses.

Joegriffin2019

I was just waiting for the ok to post this, got it a few minutes ago. Also posted by me on facebook.

Latest Developments:

Go Ahead need at least 10 more double deckers to run full quota of routes.

5 New SG type from 2019 Dublin Bus batch to be delivered next month. These will be in full DB spec. These buses are in Wrights in full Dublin Bus livery, will be repainted by Wrights.

5 streetlites leaving go ahead fleet to Bus Eireann, despite whats been said, no Bus Eireann buses to switch to go ahead.

The trial involving Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann with 9 Hybrid buses will also involve Go Ahead drivers and staff from Irish Commercials.

This is subject to change, but that is the official plan of attack.

dublinman1990

I saw this picture of the 17 on twitter tonight.



Wth was that doing trying to turn into Merrion Gates LC?

Here we go

I'm convinced who ever does the buying of busses in the NTA got a brown envelope to buy those street lights

XPS_Zero

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I saw this picture of the 17 on twitter tonight.



Wth was that doing trying to turn into Merrion Gates LC?

I'm confused as to what the point is meant to be here?


Private drivers are worse drivers? or what?


Could it not be that they will make some rookie mistakes because many of them are new drivers trained from scratch?...would DB newbies not make similar mistakes? I recall two occasions where DB drivers turned the wrong way and had to double back to get back on the right route.


What would such errors have to do with who owns the company?


It also appears he finds this so dangerous...that it's amusing?

XPS_Zero

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They probably only went into service this week - give them a break. Unlike most other jobs, bus drivers have to make all their rookie mistakes in public. On my first couple of days, I was constantly stopping either a foot away from the kerb or loudly crunching against it.

I do have to wonder if Dublin Bus could survive (PR wise) the level of scrutiny now being given to GA

SG317

So are Dublin Bus getting 5 additional SGs or are they getting 5 less now? Regarding the 59, I don't think it would have been operated by single deckers if they were shorter. As it is interworked with the other DL local routes and the 63 didn't get single deckers even though it is suitable for them. Will the 5 Streetlites affect the allocation of any route also? Also, it seems that the same bus usually does the same route, is this generally the case?

Joegriffin2019

Folks I will be out on routes 17A, 104 and 220 on Monday. Ill be wearing a blue hi vis vest if anyone wants to pop up and say hello. Feedback and comments welcome on said above routes.

dfx-

Joegriffin2019 wrote: »

I was just waiting for the ok to post this, got it a few minutes ago. Also posted by me on facebook.

Latest Developments:

Go Ahead need at least 10 more double deckers to run full quota of routes.

Does that full quota include just the routes it has now or when it has to run the 18/76 on top?

If it's the former, what are they covering the gap with?

Joegriffin2019

dfx- wrote: »

Does that full quota include just the routes it has now or when it has to run the 18/76 on top?

If it's the former, what are they covering the gap with?

Its not full quota, another 5 double decks should make things right.

Stephen15

SG317 wrote: »

So are Dublin Bus getting 5 additional SGs or are they getting 5 less now? Regarding the 59, I don't think it would have been operated by single deckers if they were shorter. As it is interworked with the other DL local routes and the 63 didn't get single deckers even though it is suitable for them. Will the 5 Streetlites affect the allocation of any route also? Also, it seems that the same bus usually does the same route, is this generally the case?

The 59 only requires a one bus due to it's short nature same story when it was with DB only one bus and two drivers one for the morning and one for the evening I think as you'd imagine this can change if a bus needs to be taken out of service due an incident or a breakdown. If they had a few smaller single deckers they could also do other routes in DL such as the 111 or the occasional off peak 63.

Single deckers are grand on the 63 off peak but this route can get busy enough to require double deckers during the peak hours as there's a few schools on the route and it can get busy enough as some seem to use as a Luas feeder.

There have been significant capacity issues with the single deckers on the 102 so I believe they're trying to make it double deck operated once more.

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I saw this picture of the 17 on twitter tonight

Wth was that doing trying to turn into Merrion Gates LC?

It looks like the bus may have been turning back on to the Rock Road rather turning into Merrion Gates. How the 17 ended up there I don't know either lost or the bus wasn't actually in service but displaying 17.

MDZX85

Joegriffin2019 wrote: »

Folks I will be out on routes 17A, 104 and 220 on Monday. Ill be wearing a blue hi vis vest if anyone wants to pop up and say hello. Feedback and comments welcome on said above routes.

Will you be driving the routes?

n!ghtmancometh

So are DB down 5 new busses because Go Ahead made a balls planning routes and underestimating demand?

Joegriffin2019

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

So are DB down 5 new busses because Go Ahead made a balls planning routes and underestimating demand?

Nothing what so ever to do with Go Ahead. Its the NTA, they plan and allocate what type of bus goes where. They plan the times etc.

devnull

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

So are DB down 5 new busses because Go Ahead made a balls planning routes and underestimating demand?

NTA based the predictions for the size of vehicles required for routes and scheduled departures based on demand when the routes were with Dublin Bus, which I would say was almost certainly based on that of the ticket machine and the number of fares issued, Leap Cards tagged on and DSP passes scanned.

Perhaps the data from the ticket machines did not include all the passengers who were actually travelling? There's been talk on this thread previously about a number of passengers just walking on rather than scanning their DSP passes, which would have contributed to these figures and possibly there were people tailgating at busy times too, I've seen this happen and although it's pretty rare, it does happen at busy stops where the driver is distracted by people going up to him or her.

At the end of the day DB most likely won't be down any vehicles, they'll just withdraw 5 less vehicles from 2006 and overall the Dublin City Bus service will benefit from this by adding extra capacity. Need to look at these things from a Dublin City Bus network point of view rather than an operators.

RuleNumber6

4 new buses initially due to Go Ahead. 4 more further down the line. These are not yet built let alone painted so no repainting from DB will happen.

No Streetlites are moving.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

NTA based the predictions for the size of vehicles required for routes and scheduled departures based on demand when the routes were with Dublin Bus, which I would say was almost certainly based on that of the ticket machine and the number of fares issued, Leap Cards tagged on and DSP passes scanned.

Perhaps the data from the ticket machines did not include all the passengers who were actually travelling? There's been talk on this thread previously about a number of passengers just walking on rather than scanning their DSP passes, which would have contributed to these figures and possibly there were people tailgating at busy times too, I've seen this happen and although it's pretty rare, it does happen at busy stops where the driver is distracted by people going up to him or her.

At the end of the day DB most likely won't be down any vehicles, they'll just withdraw 5 less vehicles from 2006 and overall the Dublin City Bus service will benefit from this by adding extra capacity. Need to look at these things from a Dublin City Bus network point of view rather than an operators.

The BMO plan as envisaged by the NTA,was always about establishing a set of criteria by which the then operational information from the "dominant operator" (BAC) could be verified,independently crosschecked and,if necessary modified or retained.

Only by actually getting the "New" operator actually up & running,could the process actually begin to function as envisaged.

It is very early days yet,and as the routes bed in and operational adjustments are made,the comparisons will become clearer.

However,early indications appear to suggest that some NTA personages,may have felt that BAC's operational methods,in respect of vehicles and staff were somewhat slack or "padded".

There may have been an expectation,that the arrival of a new unencumbered operator,would immediately have confirmed these suspicions,and thus validate this aspect of the NTA's reasoning.

What is being shown,as the situation settles,is that BAC had been operating most of these services at,or near,optimum levels of effectivity and efficiency,with the NTA-GAI now steadily embracing schedules & practices not that far removed from what originally existed.

It was always going to be a steep learning curve,but as with all such processes,it's success will be measured by those involved,actually wanting to learn.

Time (and availability of contractual requirements) will tell

Stephen15

RuleNumber6 wrote: »

4 new buses initially due to Go Ahead. 4 more further down the line. These are not yet built let alone painted so no repainting from DB will happen.

No Streetlites are moving.

I thought GAI needed ten more double deckers in order to be able to take up the 18 and 76/a. If it's the case that these buses are yet to be built then the transfer of the routes will likely be another couple of months. The NTA have said that the new route 155 will be operational by early March at the latest when the 18 transfers to GAI.

CramCycle

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I do have to wonder if Dublin Bus could survive (PR wise) the level of scrutiny now being given to GA

While I have huge respect for many of the DB drivers, staff etc. I even have friends and family working for DB but lets be honest about this, DB would be fourth out of the ashes after WW111, following the cockroaches, the HSE and admin staff in the public/civil service due to the strength of the union and the lack of backbone elsewhere.

I say this as someone who is a fan of DB in general but while they have many fantastic staff and services, the parts that need to be let go are too well protected for no good reason.

I haven't the same experience as others with GAI but have to say bar one or two schoolboy, not dangerous, errors, the 45A is doing well from my observations.

Stephen15

Here we go wrote: »

I'm convinced who ever does the buying of busses in the NTA got a brown envelope to buy those street lights

I don't it was that now. I think the NTA are looking at these things with a severe case of tunnel vision where they decided to just plough ahead and buy the buses with taking things like their design and the perception of them by passengers and drivers in the UK. Also why were the Streelites bought without centre doors?

SG317

I think the NTA only finds dual doors necessary on cross city routes and it had thus never enlisted any of the routes that Go Ahead operate to be dual door operated while with Dublin Bus. Also generally apart from the 102, 184 and 270 the routes the Streetlites are on aren't very busy and thus having a single door on it wouldn't cost too much additional time for loading and unloading.

Regarding the NTA determining the times, this seems to be only in regards to frequency as the routes are designed to be interworked, the only reason the 239 changed from half past the hour, to 10 to the hour. This is most beneficial to GAI, so they must have had at least some say in the designing of the timetables. Same with single decker allocations where the 63 and 114 are double deckers so they can be interworked and the 111 is double deckers on Sundays as it is interworked with the 59 on Sundays.

Stephen15

SG317 wrote: »

I think the NTA only finds dual doors necessary on cross city routes and it had thus never enlisted any of the routes that Go Ahead operate to be dual door operated while with Dublin Bus. Also generally apart from the 102, 184 and 270 the routes the Streetlites are on aren't very busy and thus having a single door on it wouldn't cost too much additional time for loading and unloading.

I'm sure they'd rather all double decker buses were dual door. They're just prioritising them for cross city routes as they're busier. Dual doors would be better for the single deckers although it would compromise some seating most single deckers in London are dual doors which is better apart from some that are too small for them.

Regarding the NTA determining the times, this seems to be only in regards to frequency as the routes are designed to be interworked, the only reason the 239 changed from half past the hour, to 10 to the hour. This is most beneficial to GAI, so they must have had at least some say in the designing of the timetables. Same with single decker allocations where the 63 and 114 are double deckers so they can be interworked and the 111 is double deckers on Sundays as it is interworked with the 59 on Sundays.

I think Go-Ahead had some input into them but they were for the most part made by the NTA. I'd say what likely was the case was that the NTA gave Go-Ahead permission to use single deckers on certain routes but some they decided to put double deckers on them.

The 63 does needs double deckers at some times during the day but at most times of the day it can manage with single deckers as it can be busy with schools I've seen it fairly busy in the mornings where the bus would be leaving people behind if it was a single deck but a double decker has enough capacity. It would be better if it was operated by a mix of doubles and singles but appears the NTA want routes either solely operated by doubles or singles but then there's obviously cases where GAI put a double decker on the 33a, 33b, 102, 111, 184 or 184 but it's mostly single deckers on those routes.

The 104, 161, 220, 236, 238, 239 and 270 appear to be single decker only with no double deckers on them. The 63 and I'd say the 114 would be better if they were run with 50/50 double decker or single decker.

CPTM

Would anyone support the idea of an online petition to bring attention to the sub standard service that we now have with the routes that have been transferred across to Goahead Ireland? My own experience is that the 17 never shows up despite the realtime information, leaving me sitting at the bus stop for up to an hour before one finally arrives, and I can't afford taxis every morning to get to work.

With Dublin bus, we were able to follow the bus along the route of bus stops to see how fast it was moving through traffic. With the Transport for Ireland app, the bus is shown in realtime even when it's not on the road. There are too many ghost buses keeping people waiting in vain at bus stops.

thomasj

Stephen15 wrote: »

The 104, 161, 220, 236, 238, 239 and 270 appear to be single decker only with no double deckers on them. The 63 and I'd say the 114 would be better if they were run with 50/50 double decker or single decker.

104 had double deckers on the route Friday, 220 had them Saturday and yesterday.

AlekSmart

Stephen15 wrote: »

I thought GAI needed ten more double deckers in order to be able to take up the 18 and 76/a. If it's the case that these buses are yet to be built then the transfer of the routes will likely be another couple of months. The NTA have said that the new route 155 will be operational by early March at the latest when the 18 transfers to GAI.

It now appears that the 18/76 handover has been pushed back to the 24th March.
This in turn means that the startup of the 155 will also be delayed.

AlekSmart

CPTM wrote: »

Would anyone support the idea of an online petition to bring attention to the sub standard service that we now have with the routes that have been transferred across to Goahead Ireland? My own experience is that the 17 never shows up despite the realtime information, leaving me sitting at the bus stop for up to an hour before one finally arrives, and I can't afford taxis every morning to get to work.

With Dublin bus, we were able to follow the bus along the route of bus stops to see how fast it was moving through traffic. With the Transport for Ireland app, the bus is shown in realtime even when it's not on the road. There are too many ghost buses keeping people waiting in vain at bus stops.

Your suggestion may well carry some merit,however it is unlikely to gain traction unless a means of publicising it can be found.

Are you suggesting that the 17 route has DISimproved under GAI's operation ?
Are you a long-term user of the route?
You point regarding the BAC App is easier to support as it can be directly compared route by route,clearly underlining the disimprovement between both apps for Bus users.

If you read through this thread,you will find many,many posts from a succession of interested people,some very detailed and informative,but virtually all prefaced by the term "I think".

Much thought does indeed go into these many posts,and it has to,due to the total absence of factual information from the National Transport Authority itself.

Interested "stakeholders" (for that is what WE are) are not being informed of actual Authority decisions,and,more importantly,the rationale behind the Authority's operational directions.

With the handover process now running at least 2 months late,and the knock-on effects being felt across a potentially far broader area,is far past time for the Authority to clear the table on the variety of issues it has remained silent on.

Stephen15

AlekSmart wrote: »

It now appears that the 18/76 handover has been pushed back to the 24th March.
This in turn means that the startup of the 155 will also be delayed.

That seems to be the target of early March missed fairly badly. I'd imagine there's a fair bit of spare capacity now in Donnybrook that the 155 has been delayed. I'd say the 155 as a cross city route with a 20 minute frequency will use a fair but more capacity than the 18 unless the they're to move routes out of Donnybrook.

I'd also imagine that the gap left behind by the 17 and 114 is a lot larger than a one extra 11 and a few extra 54a departures.

thomasj

Stephen15 wrote: »

That seems to be the target of early March missed fairly badly. I'd imagine there's a fair bit of spare capacity now in Donnybrook that the 155 has been delayed. I'd say the 155 as a cross city route with a 20 minute frequency will use a fair but more capacity than the 18 unless the they're to move routes out of Donnybrook.

I'd also imagine that the gap left behind by the 17 and 114 is a lot larger than a one extra 11 and a few extra 54a departures.

Still a few routes to get new timetables from the go-ahead switchover , 25a/b, 38/a, 39a, 70 and 155

Stephen15

thomasj wrote: »

Still a few routes to get new timetables from the go-ahead switchover , 25a/b, 38/a, 39a, 70 and 155

I don't get that as between them I would say roughly the 18 and 76 only have an allocation of around 20 buses but a lot more than 20 buses would required to increase frequency on the routes you mentioned plus starting up the 155.

SG317

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't get that as between them I would say roughly the 18 and 76 only have an allocation of around 20 buses but a lot more than 20 buses would required to increase frequency on the routes you mentioned plus starting up the 155.

Perhaps it would be dual garage operated with Harristown operating some departures, as they lost about 5-6 buses with the Blanchardstown locals, but got no additional work, although that is not extremely likely I reckon. Thus I presume that thr reason less work went to Donnybrook with the 17, 114 and 161 leaving the garage was precisely to have drivers for the 155 when it starts.

The 13 is also meant to be getting a new bill on the Coyningham Road side.

Stephen15

SG317 wrote: »

Perhaps it would be dual garage operated with Harristown operating some departures, as they lost about 5-6 buses with the Blanchardstown locals, but got no additional work, although that is not extremely likely I reckon. Thus I presume that thr reason less work went to Donnybrook with the 17, 114 and 161 leaving the garage was precisely to have drivers for the 155 when it starts.

The 13 is also meant to be getting a new bill on the Coyningham Road side.

I believe Harristown are operating some Euro duties on the 7/a and the 46a too also more Euros on the 41s.

dashcamdanny

CPTM wrote: »

Would anyone support the idea of an online petition to bring attention to the sub standard service that we now have with the routes that have been transferred across to Goahead Ireland? My own experience is that the 17 never shows up despite the realtime information, leaving me sitting at the bus stop for up to an hour before one finally arrives, and I can't afford taxis every morning to get to work.

With Dublin bus, we were able to follow the bus along the route of bus stops to see how fast it was moving through traffic. With the Transport for Ireland app, the bus is shown in realtime even when it's not on the road. There are too many ghost buses keeping people waiting in vain at bus stops.

This is what the people wanted. Get rid of Dublin Bus heard all over forums and social media. Terrible service..

Get used to it. You are stuck with GoAhead now.

Stephen15

CPTM wrote: »

Would anyone support the idea of an online petition to bring attention to the sub standard service that we now have with the routes that have been transferred across to Goahead Ireland? My own experience is that the 17 never shows up despite the realtime information, leaving me sitting at the bus stop for up to an hour before one finally arrives, and I can't afford taxis every morning to get to work.

With Dublin bus, we were able to follow the bus along the route of bus stops to see how fast it was moving through traffic. With the Transport for Ireland app, the bus is shown in realtime even when it's not on the road. There are too many ghost buses keeping people waiting in vain at bus stops.

My experience with both apps has been that all timetabled departures within a period of 60 mins are listed and are removed if they fail to leave the terminus at their scheduled time.

CPTM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

This is what the people wanted. Get rid of Dublin Bus heard all over forums and social media. Terrible service..

Get used to it. You are stuck with GoAhead now.

No this isn't what the people wanted. You say that like a democratic vote happened and now we're stuck with our decision. A few voices venting about a service online isn't the same as hoping for a worse service to be implemented.

CPTM

Stephen15 wrote: »

My experience with both apps has been that all timetabled departures within a period of 60 mins are listed and are removed if they fail to leave the terminus at their scheduled time.

Which route is that if you don't mind me asking? I only have first hand experience of the 17, and that definitely has ghost buses routes right down to 2 minutes away.

Stephen15

CPTM wrote: »

Which route is that if you don't mind me asking? I only have first hand experience of the 17, and that definitely has ghost buses routes right down to 2 minutes away.

I have experienced it with the 63 and the 75 more so when it was with DB on the DB app though. Had a 75 disappear on me once though with GAI. It would disappear after it had reached 15 mins and go to 54 mins or something like that this was on the DB app.

The main issue I've had with RTPI since GAI have taken over is in DL the bus only appears up on the RTPI when it's due in 2 or 3 mins or disappears then reappears. Also the app and RTPI screens at the stops usually don't correspond.

CramCycle

The 17 had these issues when DB were running it, i have first hand experience of it, it is the reason most locals no longer use it anywhere within an hour either side of peak times. I always blamed DB but maybe there are some other weird unexplainable issues there

CPTM

CramCycle wrote: »

The 17 had these issues when DB were running it, i have first hand experience of it, it is the reason most locals no longer use it anywhere within an hour either side of peak times. I always blamed DB but maybe there are some other weird unexplainable issues there

I am hearing the same thing from colleagues about the 17, though I've never experienced that myself before now. I don't understand how vehicle tracking in this day and age is a problem for a national company.

Stephen15

CramCycle wrote: »

The 17 had these issues when DB were running it, i have first hand experience of it, it is the reason most locals no longer use it anywhere within an hour either side of peak times. I always blamed DB but maybe there are some other weird unexplainable issues there

The 17, 18 and 75 have always been problematic due to the fact they go through some of the more traffic prone areas of the city and their all pretty long aswell combination of those issues.

thomasj

Just a little nugget of information for you.

The 220 terminus is showing as "mulhuddart" . It's being a long time since the terminus in question has been called mulhuddart , in fact the last time it was called mulhuddart, it was the terminus for the 38A that ran from Middle Abbey Street via the quays and phibsboro,and we're going back to bombardier's solely running the route.