Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

ax586 wrote: »

They are putting single deckers on the routes that are not meant to be is cause there is a shortage of buses believe it or not someone in the NTA couldn't count by the looks of it there was even a single decker on the 45A aswel

Thought the 18 and 76/a weren't due to move until GAI have got 8 more double deckers.

AlmightyCushion

ax586 wrote: »

NTA is in charge rtpi unfortunately GAI wanted to take control of there routes just like Dublin bus does sure GAI are not allowed to have there own app like DB ridiculous

The Dublin Bus app is gone, at least on Android. It's no longer in the Play Store

Yer Da sells Avon

When a passenger complains to me about the bus not showing up on the stupid, user-unfriendly app, or on the RTPI display, I advise them to disregard the so-called 'live timing' altogether because it's not fit for purpose. Until the NTA get their act together (which won't happen any time soon, because in addition to being worse than useless at every possible aspect of their job, they also appear to be completely unaccountable), it's a case of 'timetable and hope for the best'.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

Thought the 18 and 76/a weren't due to move until GAI have got 8 more double deckers.

They only 3 in service 1 still hasn't entered and the other 4 hasn't been delivered as of yet..strong rumour going around that another 8 from Dublin bus aswel but take that with a pinch of salt

ax586

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The Dublin Bus app is gone, at least on Android. It's no longer in the Play Store

Christ never noticed that

prinzeugen

devnull wrote: »

I'm a little confused.

Here you seem to suggest that a bus that left 40 minutes after yours caught you up.



But here you state that the bus journey only took 35 minutes.



Reason being if your trip took 35 minutes it wouldn't be possible for the bus that left 40 minutes after yours to catch you up because your journey was complete before it would have left where you initially got on.

This would be possible however if they were running extra departures on route 18 for the match, which some people have told us did not happen. Seems they may be wrong from what you are saying.

There are more 18s now (which is a good thing). The online realtime showed 3 x No 18 arriving at my departure stop within 30 mins at one point (Sandymount direction)

Using it again on Sat and will be getting a bus earlier. Just made it into work on Tue on time.

The RTI is bollox also. I look upto the RDS for an 18 on the way home, no sign and I walk up to Waterloo Rd as that stop has a RTPI display.

It went from Due - 3 mins - due - 1 min - vanished (Dart tracks) - 1 min... For 15 mins. The next 18 was "allegedly" 5 mins behind that one?

The only upside to this is that there is a more frequent service (on paper) and the drivers are pleasant. Poor otherwise.

prinzeugen

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The Dublin Bus app is gone, at least on Android. It's no longer in the Play Store

There is an older version that I use. Does not show the Go-ahead bus services though.

I uninstalled updates and it still works..

Qrt

Are the NTA buying these single deckers for use on the future O route? I feel that would be a contributing factor.

dfx-

Stephen15 wrote: »

Could be a newly trained driver but I'd say it was more likely that the driver was driving slow to keep on time and not run early as unlike Dublin Bus Go-Ahead drivers are not allowed run ahead of schedule and various timing points not sure if that's NTA policy or internal GAI policy.

It's also happened me on a GAI bus where the driver pulled in at a stop for about 5 minutes as he was running early.

Nothing that complicated. It was just slow.

But at least it was a double decker. Single deckers should not be on the 76/18 (or most of their other routes). Is there anywhere we can find out the service requirements that the NTA set out for them?

I presume it's less expensive to run a single decker from what was a double decker five days ago..who makes the saving? Who is checking?

dublinman1990

I was in a taxi passing Blackrock yesterday evening. I saw two 17's stopping at the bus stop outside the old toilets at Blackrock park.

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

Nothing that complicated. It was just slow.

But at least it was a double decker. Single deckers should not be on the 76/18 (or most of their other routes). Is there anywhere we can find out the service requirements that the NTA set out for them?

I presume it's less expensive to run a single decker from what was a double decker five days ago..who makes the saving? Who is checking?

Well according to one of the OPs who appears to be a GAI driver the single deckers have ended up on the 18 and 76 because the NTA ordered a shortage of buses and GAI are still waiting on the a number of the 8 buses which they were meant to get.

I agree there shouldn't be single deckers on the 18 or 76 but most other routes which have switched to single deckers apart from the 102 and to a lesser extent the 184 and 270 can cope perfectly fine using single deckers the likes of the 33b, 104, 161, 220, 236, 238 and 239 etc. don't require double deckers and manage with single deckers. The savings may allow the NTA to increase frequency where nessecary.

sharper

prinzeugen wrote: »

There is an older version that I use. Does not show the Go-ahead bus services though.

I uninstalled updates and it still works..

I read somewhere the Dublin Bus app will be coming back eventually, I don't know if it'll ever show Go Ahead services though.

I find the TFI app quite clunky to use, Next Bus Dublin is far nicer and lets you select DB, TFI or both as data sources.

AlmightyCushion

sharper wrote: »

I read somewhere the Dublin Bus app will be coming back eventually, I don't know if it'll ever show Go Ahead services though.

I find the TFI app quite clunky to use, Next Bus Dublin is far nicer and lets you select DB, TFI or both as data sources.

I don't mind the Real Time Ireland one. It can be a bit shít but for looking checking buses at stops it's grand and that's what I mostly use the app for. I'll give that Next Bus Dublin a go though, see what it's like. I would love for an app that had a widget that would show the bus arriving at a stop to save you having the app open.

lil5

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I don't mind the Real Time Ireland one. It can be a bit shít but for looking checking buses at stops it's grand and that's what I mostly use the app for. I'll give that Next Bus Dublin a go though, see what it's like. I would love for an app that had a widget that would show the bus arriving at a stop to save you having the app open.

Next Bus Dublin has a couple of stop widgets.
Well worth trying out.
And, if you have any suggestions for improvements, the developer is very helpful.

sharper

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I would love for an app that had a widget that would show the bus arriving at a stop to save you having the app open.

In addition to what lil5 said you can also pick the bus you want to get and get a notification X number of minutes before it's due.

L1011

Qrt wrote: »

Are the NTA buying these single deckers for use on the future O route? I feel that would be a contributing factor.

No, these were got for the routes they're currently running on. It appears something went wrong in capacity planning for some of them; one suggestion on here that is plausible is that FTP users weren't always being recorded and hence they had an inaccurate idea of usage but I think there'd need to be more distortion factors than that

They may end up using them on the O due to needing to buy new double deckers for the overloaded routes though!

lil5

sharper wrote: »

In addition to what lil5 said you can also pick the bus you want to get and get a notification X number of minutes before it's due.

Yes, another brilliant feature of the app.
And shows up the operational shambles that are DB when buses go missing again and again.
Haven't tried it with the GAI buses yet.

A2000

Got 13.00 76 from tallaght today. Busy but not full. Took 10 mins to exit square at the institute. 55 mins to liffey valley. 1hr 2 mins to gala ballyfermot. Very slow. There was someone from go ahead in hi vis helping people on and off with prams and advising the driver. Hope the journey times improve as this was off peak.

KD345

lil5 wrote: »

Yes, another brilliant feature of the app.
And shows up the operational shambles that are DB when buses go missing again and again.
Haven't tried it with the GAI buses yet.

The Dublin Bus app remains the only app to show short working on routes. When a bus is curtailed, the TFI Real Time app does not show the change, neither does Next Bus Dublin.

See images - the next 40 due at Thomas Street is only running to Westmoreland Street but the TFI/NBD app shows it running to Charlestown. The Journey Planner app has a note that this service is curtailed but still displays ‘towards Charlestown’. The on street screens do show the curtailment.

I’m not sure why the apps show different destinations. At least with Dublin Bus you can get accurate information from their app, but you don’t have that with Go-Ahead. It would seem a lot of Go-Ahead services are just displaying timetabled arrival times at stops rather than Real Time.

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

Nothing that complicated. It was just slow.

But you mention that the bus was not late just slow so at a guess that would suggest that the bus was running on time. This would suggest if the driver was faster the bus would be early.

Stephen15

Qrt wrote: »

Are the NTA buying these single deckers for use on the future O route? I feel that would be a contributing factor.

There is talk that the O route may be operated by bendybuses I believe which makes sense if the proper infrastructure is put in place to allow all doors to be used and there's proper segregation with cyclists. I'd say something a bit different will be needed if and when it starts running either bendybuses or large continental style three door single deck buses.

ax586

A2000 wrote: »

Got 13.00 76 from tallaght today. Busy but not full. Took 10 mins to exit square at the institute. 55 mins to liffey valley. 1hr 2 mins to gala ballyfermot. Very slow. There was someone from go ahead in hi vis helping people on and off with prams and advising the driver. Hope the journey times improve as this was off peak.

The guy in the high vis would of being a mentor shown the other driver where to go..anyways you will all want to get use to the driver going slow cause if hes ahead of time he Will be told to by the controllers to slow fown or wait at the next stop and I for one rather go slow than pull into a stop for 5 minutes or maybe the person is new to the industry and is nervous give the driver's a bloody chance

A2000

ax586 wrote: »

The guy in the high vis would of being a mentor shown the other driver where to go..anyways you will all want to get use to the driver going slow because if he's ahead of time he will slow and it beats pulling into every stop and waiting

67 mins on a running time of 52 puts him around 15 mins late

Stephen15

ax586 wrote: »

The guy in the high vis would of being a mentor shown the other driver where to go..anyways you will all want to get use to the driver going slow cause if hes ahead of time he Will be told to by the controllers to slow fown or wait at the next stop and I for one rather go slow than pull into a stop for 5 minutes or maybe the person is new to the industry and is nervous give the driver's a bloody chance

One I have noticed on GAI buses is the two way radio doesn't seem to be used by the controllers as much as on DB. I don't I've actually heard the two way radio going off in the drivers cab and the muffled sound of the controllers going on about some diversion or something or other on GAI bus.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

One I have noticed on GAI buses is the two way radio doesn't seem to be used by the controllers as much as on DB. I don't I've actually heard the two way radio going off in the drivers cab and the muffled sound of the controllers going on about some diversion or something or other on GAI bus.

Its mostly done by txt on the avl driver can see it when the bus comes to a stop

prinzeugen

devnull wrote: »

I'm a little confused.

Here you seem to suggest that a bus that left 40 minutes after yours caught you up.



But here you state that the bus journey only took 35 minutes.



Reason being if your trip took 35 minutes it wouldn't be possible for the bus that left 40 minutes after yours to catch you up because your journey was complete before it would have left where you initially got on.

This would be possible however if they were running extra departures on route 18 for the match, which some people have told us did not happen. Seems they may be wrong from what you are saying.

It is possible. Search for "BFI number 9 london bus" on YouTube. Its were the old joke about waiting an hour for a bus and 3 turn up at once comes from!

pad199207

Any word on when Go ahead are taking over the bus Eireann routes into Kildare?

Stephen15

pad199207 wrote: »

Any word on when Go ahead are taking over the bus Eireann routes into Kildare?

Rumoured to be November but I'd take that with a pinch of salt. I'd say it'll be after things have bedded in with them.

markpb

ax586 wrote: »

NTA is in charge rtpi unfortunately GAI wanted to take control of there routes just like Dublin bus does sure GAI are not allowed to have there own app like DB ridiculous

It's hard to argue with the NTA's decision on this. Having a single brand with a single app is far better from a customers point of view.

The issues with the NTA app (especially about short workings) definitely need to be fixed though!

pad199207

Stephen15 wrote: »

Rumoured to be November but I'd take that with a pinch of salt. I'd say it'll be after things have bedded in with them.

Got an email from them saying it will be mid August now

Qrt

markpb wrote: »

It's hard to argue with the NTA's decision on this. Having a single brand with a single app is far better from a customers point of view.

The issues with the NTA app (especially about short workings) definitely need to be fixed though!

Wasn’t there a tender recently for a new leap system? I think an app was part of that too, could be wrong though...

Dravokivich

Doubt it. Leap and rtpi are 2 separate areas. Theres no point in combining the 2, as the requirements for leap app, will cut down the user base.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Anyone reckon Go Ahead may try to take over some BE routes in Cork City?

devnull

RTPI is having a software upgrade tomorrow.

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Anyone reckon Go Ahead may try to take over some BE routes in Cork City?

They can't they're not up for tender.

Stephen15

This just strikes as extremely poor planning from the NTA. By the looks of things GAI warned the NTA a couple of months ago that they would need extra buses in order to fulfill all the routes they were awarded in the tender.

So the NTA decided to delay the transfer of the 18 and 76/a and diverted 8 buses from DB to GAI however GAI are still waiting on 4 of the 8 buses meaning they don't have the required amount of buses needed to fulfill the tender. This is daft why were the 4 buses delayed were there delays in Wrights if so then how come DB have now received a further 10 buses since why weren't these diverted to GAI and the delayed ones given to DB as fleet replacements.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

This just strikes as extremely poor planning from the NTA. By the looks of things GAI warned the NTA a couple of months ago that they would need extra buses in order to fulfill all the routes they were awarded in the tender.

So the NTA decided to delay the transfer of the 18 and 76/a and diverted 8 buses from DB to GAI however GAI are still waiting on 4 of the 8 buses meaning they don't have the required amount of buses needed to fulfill the tender. This is daft why were the 4 buses delayed were there delays in Wrights if so then how come DB have now received a further 10 buses since why weren't these diverted to GAI and the delayed ones given to DB as fleet replacements.

Or Stephen why did the NTA not let GAI bring there own buses in from the start we wouldn't be in this mess and would of being New buses by the way.but they said no

Curb Your Enthusiasm

devnull wrote: »

RTPI is having a software upgrade tomorrow.



They can't they're not up for tender.

I thought BE's contract was expiring soon?

soundman45

Ah Go Ahead. Connecting people with places. I bet the commuters of Kildare cannot wait for the circus to roll into town.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

soundman45 wrote: »

Ah Go Ahead. Connecting people with places. I bet the commuters of Kildare cannot wait for the circus to roll into town.

I'd imagine anything is better than Bus Eireann....

AlekSmart

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I thought BE's contract was expiring soon?

New PSO Contract from Dec this year.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Report_on_Direct_Award_Contract_to_Bus_Eireann_in_2019-1.pdf

The original 10% of routes to be competitively tendered in 2021 has been reduced to 5%.

Conclusion : The Authority approved the proposal set out in the Consultation Paper but reduced the number of routes to be competitively tendered which equates to about 5% of Bus Éireann’s services.

And the winner will recieve....

Bus services which will only remain within the Direct Award Contract until end 2021 and which will be competitively tendered and thereafter removed from the Direct Award and provided under a separate contract by end 2021 Table A2:Routes for Competitive Tendering, for operation by successful tenderer in 2021 Dublin Commuter (Coastal and Wexford West Wicklow) 101 Dublin –Dublin Airport -Balbriggan -Drogheda 101X Wilton Tce -Drogheda -Termon Abbey 133 Dublin Airport –Dublin city centre -Ashford – Wicklow - Gorey

These are additional to the Kildare corridor routes currently awaiting handover to GAI later this year. (Pending delivery of new vehicles)

punisher5112

Since when has 133 gone to Gorey?

Or will this be an extension.

markpb

Qrt wrote: »

Wasn’t there a tender recently for a new leap system? I think an app was part of that too, could be wrong though...

The Leap - Operate tender is either getting started or ongoing (can't remember which), one is the mobile ticketing tender (recently awarded to Cubic) and I'm sure there are more.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Since when has 133 gone to Gorey?

Or will this be an extension.

I think a few a day go there

Stephen15

One thing I do not understand is why the 17, 18, 45a and 76 were all given frequency increases to every 20 mins M-F between the peaks but the 75 got no increase the whole time despite it being busier than all of the routes mentioned.

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

One thing I do not understand is why the 17, 18, 45a and 76 were all given frequency increases to every 20 mins M-F between the peaks but the 75 got no increase the whole time despite it being busier than all of the routes mentioned.

Probably the introduction of the 175, I imagine its taken a lot of heat off the 75 for Tallaght - Dundrum commuters.

GM228

AlekSmart wrote: »

Where things potentially began to diverge was the JJ Kavanagh Route 139 process which went through in early 2018.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/new-139-bus-service-linking-naas-blanchardstown-begins-operation-12th-march/

The only information available for the JJK 139 contract is via references in passing....

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Agreed_Minutes_of_Oct_2017_Board_Meeting.pdf

October 2017......



The 139 PSO contract appears therefore to be the first departure from the accepted norms of the previous Tendered PSO contracts.

Alek, you will be pleased to know the NTA have begun publishing some PSO contracts starting with the 139 contract.

Despite being signed several years beforehand they have also published the Routes 817, 828 and 975 contracts.

817-Bernard Kavanagh
828 - M&A Coaches
975 - Whartons

You never know, perhaps you may get the GA contract (albeit redacted) you so desperately crave.

Stephen15

Qrt wrote: »

Probably the introduction of the 175, I imagine its taken a lot of heat off the 75 for Tallaght - Dundrum commuters.

It's still a busy route though I would say enough to warrant a 20 minute weekday frequency between peaks as it's certainly as well used still as many of the routes that got an increase. The 175 frequency should also be higher at weekends.

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

Alek, you will be pleased to know the NTA have begun publishing some PSO contracts starting with the 139 contract.

Despite being signed several years beforehand they have also published the Routes 817, 828 and 975 contracts.

817-Bernard Kavanagh
828 - M&A Coaches
975 - Whartons

You never know, perhaps you may get the GA contract (albeit redacted) you so desperately crave.

It's not a craving....but it is (and always was) an inevitability....it's was as plain as a boil on the nose,that there never was any remotely viable reason for non disclosure of the Contractual Requirements of the GAI Contract.

The Public perception of having to drag,even the most basic,details of a PUBLIC service contract from the writhing carcass of a PUBLIC body was never going to allow the NTA to slither away from this.

Perhaps they've got some good PR advice at long last ?

I wonder if I can get an autographed copy ?

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

The 175 frequency should also be higher at weekends.

Agreed, hourly on Saturdays is shocking.

ax586

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's still a busy route though I would say enough to warrant a 20 minute weekday frequency between peaks as it's certainly as well used still as many of the routes that got an increase. The 175 frequency should also be higher at weekends.

And where are you going to pull the buses out of for that there struggling to keep the service's they have at the minute with the buses the have...today I was in the garage around 2 and there was only 5 spare buses in there in case there was a breakdown and buses coming of there duty but going straight back out onto another one ...