Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664155#Comment_119664155

Highly doubt it. Single EVs are to come in about the same time that phase launches. I find it more likely for them to go towards Carlow

Also GAI are to get a bunch of SGs for the S routes, look at d51984's list above

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119664560#Comment_119664560

I’d imagine that the Athlone buses will be going to Carlow.

I suspect that someone got the wrong end of the stick about why the SGs are going to GAI.

LXFlyer

Fines issued to all Dublin PSO operators for poor performance:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-bus-luas-and-go-ahead-fined-5m-for-delays-and-no-shows-42016226.html

LUAS - €2.67m

Dublin Bus - €1.5m

GAI - €850k

Proportionately that is a massive fine for GAI considering it operates only 10% of the bus service in the city.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665407#Comment_119665407

? How else are they to expand their fleet for the next phase, then? Unless if the increase will be handled by DB?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665678#Comment_119665678

Exactly but another poster suggested that the SGs were to replace Streetlites which I think is incorrect - I’ve quoted the post below.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658269#Comment_119658269

I would be inclined to believe that the transfers are to cover the expansion of the southside orbitals. I can’t see the Streetlites going anywhere.

mikeybhoy

I used to hear a lot of complaints about capacity issues on the 102 and to a lesser extent the 184 and 270 due to the use of single deckers. I don't see those complaints so much anymore at least not since covid.

mikeybhoy

Maybe of interest to some here https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublin-bus-luas-and-go-ahead-fined-5m-for-delays-and-no-shows-42016226.html

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665424#Comment_119665424

It's what we have been saying to you all along - the cancellations are way worse on Go Ahead than Dublin Bus except you wouldnt listen but look all of their contract fines are actually €1.15 million and not 850k

Dublin Bus, Luas, and Go-Ahead fined collective €5m over delays and cancellations - Dublin Live

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678054#Comment_119678054

I did listen, and I never said DB were worse than GAI, but I said there were significant problems at Dublin Bus as well.

Their performance got far worse as the summer progressed and I fully expect DB to be hit with much larger fines in Q3.

Just to note that the larger GAI figure includes commuter routes to Kildare and Offaly.

My main concern in all of this is for the NTA to focus on service delivery. Issuing fines is all well and good, but people will lose any faith in public transport if they can’t rely on the services.

The NTA need to front up to customers, and apologise and start coming up with schedules that can work. At the moment they’re digging their heads in the sand.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678078#Comment_119678078

If the figures are correct GAIs deductions on the DCOM contract are something like 210,000 in Q1 and 640,000 in Q2

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119678169#Comment_119678169

And probably 50% more in Q3!

mikeybhoy

Go-Ahead's Enviro 200 MMCs used on route 197 have been swapped with Streetlites they've gotten from Metrobus over in the UK. They are in Ballymount and are in the new TFI livery as opposed to the livery used on the 197 so it's unclear if they'll be used solely on the 197 or if they'll see service on Dublin city routes.

mikeybhoy

Looks like they've been given a one year extension https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/10/31/go-ahead-bus-contract-extended-despite-complaints-and-dissatisfaction-with-service/

p_haugh

Not surprised given the fact that the NTA has their hands full, especially with the bus connects rollout. Last thing they want is also trying to sort out a replacement for GAI on top of it

d51984

Very strange that they have repainted their own streetlites in to full NTA livery, my understanding was that some streetlites were been replaced with ex Dublin Bus SG,s but as LXFlyer mentioned these are most likely for expansion.

john boye

If the SGs are for expansion then how is it strange that they're repainting streetlites if they're keeping them?

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119815905#Comment_119815905

They are repainting 'Their Own' streetlites they imported from the UK, not the NTA owned ones.

This is a shorter Streetlite owned by Go Ahead, look at the interior. Strange that they have painted it in to TFI livery since its not NTA owned.

(Photo Robert McGuirk)

LXFlyer

Why is it strange?

They are there to operate the 197 route which is being operated on behalf of the NTA.

mikeybhoy

Wonder are they going to be using these on the 197 exclusively or will they be used on Dublin city routes too.

I know the 197 gets Streetlites from time to time so could these could allow a bit more flexibility however I'd say these have manual ramps as with a lot of non TFL buses over in the UK which could be problematic for city work combined with the lack of Autofare. Unless GAI plan on retrofitting automatic ramps and autofare to these buses.

I still don't understand why the 197 isn't a regular Dublin city route.

d51984

I know in my Dublin bus days it was a big huge no no to leave the cab, so Ide say its the same with Go Ahead. If these are exclusively for route 197 then should be ok as its not really a Dublin city route so would be like a Bus Eireann Dublin city commuter route if that makes sense.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119817682#Comment_119817682

I think the buses on the 197 already have a manual ramp. Anyway I think drivers are supposed to have manual handling training if using a manual ramp.

The 197 is a weird one not really considered a city route or a commuter route just it's own standalone route not affiliated to any wider network. Has it's own fare structure and all. The buses on the 197 aren't fitted with AVL either afaik.

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816378#Comment_119816378

Can you clarify what livery buses should be in while operating NTA contracts? Go ahead were using their own livery on the 197 up until recently, lots of other operators using their own livery on various routes, not to mention Bus Eireann who haven't painted one of their city buses in to the new yellow/green paint scheme yet.

I find it strange that both Dublin Bus and Go Ahead are flying along with their repaints while Bus Eireann are not.

LXFlyer

I would imagine that there would be a desire for all buses operating TFI services to be in the TFI livery at some stage.

Leaving Local Link aside, which is a separate brand, TFI contracted services are:

Dublin City operated by DB & GAI

Dublin Regional operated by GAI

National PSO & regional cities/towns operated by BE

Kilkenny City - City Direct

Kilkenny-Dublin Route 817 - Bernard Kavanagh

Ashbourne-Swords Route 197 - GAI

Naas-Blanchardstown Route 139 - JJ Kavanagh

Cavan/Longford Route 975 - Whartons

DB have always had a policy of regular repaints, which was every three years and is now every four. BE had no such policy which is why, as their fleet got older, they looked shabbier. I’d expect that to start to change.

I would expect that as the new BusConnects network is rolled out in Cork for example that the fleet will start to be repainted into TFI colours.

Galway city and most of Limerick are now in the new TFI livery, and Athlone will be from early next year. Sligo, Navan and Waterford are in the earlier TFI livery but will presumably be repainted at some stage.

The NTA will presumably want a standard livery on all buses operating TFI services, but that will take time.

d51984

Cheers for the reply and info LXflyer. I think the new livery looks great, even better on the new electroliners (amazing what a logo on the front does to looks). Its smart has the color green in it and looks clean. A nice clean uniform look across the country, the more buses and coaches the better.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119817545#Comment_119817545

If I remember correctly, at least one of GAI's Streetlites had a manual ramp. Easy to use and could be kicked shut. I doubt they'll be retrofitting anything.

Just out of interest, what do drivers usually do when a ramp won't open and you've got someone in a wheelchair waiting to get on? "Sorry, no-can-do" and leave the poor soul on the side of the road? Or does common sense prevail, and do you abandon the safety of the cab for a few seconds to open it with the tool provided?

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119820257#Comment_119820257

Happened to me a few times, radio control STAY IN CAB, maintenance would come to fix or with new bus if near depo, other wise leave passenger for next bus and your bus would be swapped at terminus. The message was clear though... DO NOT LEAVE THE CAB!

That was Clontarf depo, on The Howth and Malahide road corridors so a bus wasn't usually far behind you. I don't know what would happen on a less frequent route.

Interesting to note that the new PA class have a manual ramp on the center door as a backup. I don't know what the protocol would be there as Clontarf never had any PA buses and Ive left now anyway.

Sorry folks, I know I'm going off topic.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119820257#Comment_119820257

Yeah common sense would prevail for most drivers but I guess there's always some jobsworth who'll say things like I'm not trained to do that or there's no union agreement for that.

I had a DB driver once who wouldn't stop for me because cars were illegally parked blocking the bus stop now obviously the cars parked illegally were in the wrong but there was loads of space for him to stop safely after the bus stop but he made no effort to stop.

When I phoned DB to complain they told me there was nothing except pass on the reg of the cars blocking the stop to the guards through the cctv they could do nothing with the driver as he was technically following the correct procedure. There's always some who'll follow procedure to the letter either to try and prove a point or just because their too bloody lazy to go out of their way.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119820358#Comment_119820358

this "cars parked at the bus stop" spiel was given to me by a jobsworth on the 16 too 2 years ago now.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119820257#Comment_119820257

I saw it happen a few years ago, ramp wouldn't open and wheelchair user couldn't get on. Driver was extremely apologetic and seemed embarrassed about the situation but had to just head on.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119820312#Comment_119820312

I'm open to correction but I think that manual ramp on the PAs is for emergency use if say the bus was involved in an accident and the front doors couldn't be used then a wheelchair user could be evacuated from the back doors.

That's an educated guess on my part as I remember seeing an image on the DFB twitter page of a bus involved in an accident and they used a pallet to get a wheelchair user off. Here's the picture could this possibly be the reason for the ramp at the centre doors on the PAs?

xper

That's a curiously well fitting set of components for an improvised ramp :)

daveville30

Would the 197 route be busy can't imagine a lot of people would want to go from Ashbourne to swords.id say a direct bus from Ashbourne to blanch would have a lot more using it.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843680#Comment_119843680

The 105 already does Ashbourne to Blanch. I'd say it's more for the rural areas in between the two. I'm guessing it's more a local community route used by a lot of OAPs as opposed to a busy commuter route. Maybe if it was to be extended to the Airport it could get more use in the Ashbourne area.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843680#Comment_119843680

Why do you think that not many people would want to make that trip?

Two major towns, one of which (Swords) has lots of employment and retail options.

The 197 fills a major gap in the public transport network.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844523#Comment_119844523

Again, it opens up opportunities for people to take jobs in either town while also improving the service to/from Rolestown. It’s all about building connectivity.

As for the airport, the 109A already connects Ashbourne and the Airport every hour.

thomasj

sorry wrong thread

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844551#Comment_119844551

So the route is fairly logical and offers decent connections. Only thing I think is silly about it is that it's not part of the Dublin city network with the same fare structure as other DB/GAI routes plus the benefit of the 90 minute fare. Could be done with bus connects rebrand it to the L97 perhaps.

daveville30

When I lived in Ashbourne and needed anything it was always Blanch we went.there used to be a Dublin bus that went to rolestown then stopped is that still going or has the 197 taking over

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844945#Comment_119844945

There was no option to go to Swords on public transport until the 197 started, that’s the point!

Now the option exists.

The 41b still operates.

Thelonious Monk

Last time I was home I used to N6 (think it's a Go-Ahead route) from Coolock to get to Santry to take a bus to the airport. When you get off the N6 you've to walk for about 10 minutes to get to a Dublin Bus stop where the 16 and 41 stop. Anyone else had to do this? It seems ridiculous that you have to walk so far to get a connecting bus.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852693#Comment_119852693

Pretty daft of them not to make the Swords routes stop on the same one as the N6, though I imagine it'll get fixed once the A spine gets introduced

Thelonious Monk

Also how do you pay for buses in Dublin nowadays? Do you have to put the card down by the driver and tell him where you're going? Or can you just beep your card on the other thing on your right as you get on? How does that know how far you're going, or is there just one fare now regardless of distance?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119852693#Comment_119852693

It's only 2 mins walk from the N6 stop (stop 7848) to stop 1624 outbound on the 16 & 41. Go back towards town rather than the stop outside Santry Stadium

In the other direction use stops 1639 to get off the 16/41 and stop 7847 to catch the N6.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854591#Comment_119854591

Both options available to use.

If you go to the driver side machine and specify the stop, the system auto calculates which fare should be used. You can also just say "short fare" or "long fare" etc., but some drivers may also ask for your stop.

Going to the right-hand side validator just charges you the full amount, aka the 90 minute fare

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854595#Comment_119854595

Yeah looks a bit quicker. TFI told me to get off at santry Lane and walk towards airport. Takes a while.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854980#Comment_119854980

Oh definitely don’t do that!

Thelonious Monk

All in all for someone who always moaned about being from so close to the airport but no way of getting there (I have cycled many times), the N6 comes every 10 minutes now and it takes about 45 mins door to door, can't complain.

Muller1991

I was invited to a party last Friday out in Dun Laoighaire and fancied a drink so I wasn't going to drive. Myself and a friend said we would get the 75 from the old Bawn road, It was due to leave the square at 19.15 so would be down in less than 10 mins. By 7.45 there was no sign of the bus so we jumped on the 175 to UCD and caught the 46A instead. Got off in Dun Laoighaire and there was at least 20-30 people at the stop waiting on a 75, They where in for a long wait by the looks of things

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854611#Comment_119854611

I have seen drivers telling people who had gone to them but were in to non-short-fare distances to use the other validator - may work to train people to use it; but it certainly doesn't save time as the ticket machine will have switched to Leap mode by that stage.

p_haugh

Interestingly enough, I was getting the short fare to go a couple of stops on the 145 the other day. Driver started saying since it was a young adult card I could just tap on the right hand validator and it would still be the 1 euro fare... think he forgot the short fare was a thing 😂

dublinman1990

GAI have not posted any diversion news about the 17 and 114 routes in Blackrock on their website recently. There are roadworks taking place in some parts of Blackrock which begin at 7pm tonight.

The roadworks in Blackrock covers road closures from Newtown Avenue to Maritimo Villas. They will take place until 1am every night until the early hours of Friday morning.

Dublin Bus already posted a diversion notice on their website about temporary changes to 7/7a and 84/a.

The 7 & 7a are using the bypass for their routes to Parnell Square. They use the normal route when going from town.

The 84 & 84a are using Frascati Road and the car showroom as bus stops for their routes to Bray Dart Stn & Newcastle.

GAI have not posted any updates on their about temporary updates for the 17 and 114 to reroute them via Blackrock Church and the Blackrock bypass on their website yet.

They are very slow in putting them up there.