Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

Sappy404

It's a day after deadline day and I'm already wondering what we're going to do in January. In spite of the stubbornness of the manager. In spite of the fact that the club is handicapped by not having any football people above him to advise. In spite of FSG's misguided sense of value and it's importance. In spite of recent history telling me that we both never do business in January and that any hope that they might get a window right for once will only make it worse when they don't. In spite of everything that happened this summer.

Still, we signed Phil and Sturridge the same Jan window. And Suarez was a January signing too. How many days til Christmas?

machiavellianme

sideswipe wrote: »

Very surprised there isn't more positivity in here this morning- about €150million saved on not buying players yesterday! Wasn't there people in here saying the money should be spent on the stadium instead of players?

Annoyed CD wasn't brought in but still trust Klopp to get it sorted properly down the line rather than going for substandard stop gaps now.

Who is CD? Craig Dawson?

Rekop dog

The clean sheet obsession among Liverpool fans is hilarious. I was in a bar when the Arsenal game was on, a team you absolutely tore asunder and the amount of Pool fans late in the game agonising saying if we concede now it will ruin this for me, instead of actually enjoying a domineering victory. Had they conceded it would have meant nothing, but could be used as a stick to beat Klopp with by clean sheet obsessives.

The main thing you need to concern yourself over is if there's tangible progression at the club and is the attacking style reaping rewards, I think the answer was yes from last season and early signs are again good this year. Enjoy the ride instead of worrying yourselves into an early grave!

BoardsMember

machiavellianme wrote: »

Who is CD? Craig Dawson?

Assuming it is not a disingenuous question, I think it means Central Defender

BoardsMember

Rekop dog wrote: »

The clean sheet obsession among Liverpool fans is hilarious. I was in a bar when the Arsenal game was on, a team you absolutely tore asunder and the amount of Pool fans late in the game agonising saying if we concede now it will ruin this for me, instead of actually enjoying a domineering victory. Had they conceded it would have meant nothing, but could be used as a stick to beat Klopp with by clean sheet obsessives.

The main thing you need to concern yourself over is if there's tangible progression at the club and is the attacking style reaping rewards, I think the answer was yes from last season and early signs are again good this year. Enjoy the ride instead of worrying yourselves into an early grave!

That's a reasonable point to some extent. However....our attacking play against sides that come out to play has been good for some time now. Where we are looking to improve is twofold, in my opinion: being less porous at the back, particularly reducing the number of weak goals conceded and goals from set pieces; also need to show that we can play more than one way, i.e. not necessarily all out 100%, especially against teams who sit in and defend.

Harry Palmr

Barclays Manager and Player of the Month nominations include Klopp, Salah and Mane.

Pep Guardiola also in the list somehow!

Rekop dog

BoardsMember wrote: »

That's a reasonable point to some extent. However....our attacking play against sides that come out to play has been good for some time now. Where we are looking to improve is twofold, in my opinion: being less porous at the back, particularly reducing the number of weak goals conceded and goals from set pieces; also need to show that we can play more than one way, i.e. not necessarily all out 100%, especially against teams who sit in and defend.

I've been through this before though, you're gonna concede goals from set pieces. It's a small team in very basic terms. Tall teams usually top the set piece scoring charts, small teams struggle. But it's all about the bigger picture, they make up for it in other areas like being technically excellent on attacks. Carragher presented a retarded attack at Klopp last season on MNF about set piece goals conceded with no mention of relative height of sides and how this has a huge affect the stats, to which Klopp said "There is no solution. We do not have the tallest team in the league" and when asked for a remedy he dismissively joked "make my players taller". You'll always have your Carraghers and fans here that don't understand his ideology and fail to see the bigger picture.

rgace

We have improved the team slightly this window and the extra cover from Robertson & Ox will help with extra games.
Signing VVD and Keita could have pushed us on to a title challenge imo.
I am expecting a similar position in the league to last season and last 16 of CL which is all a bit Arsenal really

marklazarcovic

Looking at how klopp operates,he probably made it known to vvd that he was our top defensive target,maybe even future Capt, sold the club to him basically. I don't see him dumping on vvd just because the saints would not sell this summer,..if by next summer the stance is the same then there's not much we can do.. it sends out the right signals in our transfer dealings to Future targets, klopp is a man of his word.

It's actually a great way for a manager to show his players he will fight for them ,and they in turn will fight on the pitch for him.

I admire it to be honest,be much easier to spend the obvious cash we have on players not REALLY wanted,just filling a gap. Klopp knows if he fails he's bust so Fair play to him I say. The club seems confident through the managers confidence.

We may be short this year on players,I trust his plan though.

Iused2likebusts

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Barclays Manager and Player of the Month nominations include Klopp, Salah and Mane.

Pep Guardiola also in the list somehow!

Mane should get player of the month easily been the best player in the league to date.

TitianGerm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Barclays Manager and Player of the Month nominations include Klopp, Salah and Mane.

Pep Guardiola also in the list somehow!

Mane for Player and Wagner for manager or Mourhino (I'm sure he's nominated).

brevity

I don't think it's a clean sheet obsession myself I think it's being able to weather a storm or to be able to close out a game.

Sappy404

The way I see it:

Chamberlain > Lucas
Solanke ~ Origi
Robertson + Moreno + Milner > Moreno + Milner (though there's a very small sample size here)
Salah > Kent

Deadwood (Stewart, Wisdom, Sakho)

Overall that's an improvement on the matchday squad should everyone be fit, but the wider squad is where it was last year IMO. We can't expect to keep enough players fit to compete on all 4 fronts. It's just not realistic.

With VvD and Lemar failing to arrive and the Sakho situation irredeemable, I'd have kept Origi to free up Solanke/Firmino in a 10 role for a few cup games, or maybe Kent. I'd even have kept Lucas as CB and CM cover. That's how bad it is.

shamrock55

what was Klopp like at Dortmund for buying defenders when he arrived,i know he bought in hummels but did he bring in anyone else?

TitianGerm

Sappy404 wrote: »

The way I see it:

Chamberlain > Lucas
Solanke ~ Origi
Robertson + Moreno + Milner > Moreno + Milner (though there's a very small sample size here)
Salah > Kent

Deadwood (Stewart, Wisdom, Sakho)

Overall that's an improvement on the matchday squad should everyone be fit, but the wider squad is where it was last year IMO. We can't expect to keep enough players fit to compete on all 4 fronts. It's just not realistic.

With VvD and Lemar failing to arrive and the Sakho situation irredeemable, I'd have kept Origi to free up Solanke/Firmino in a 10 role for a few cup games, or maybe Kent. I'd even have kept Lucas as CB and CM cover. That's how bad it is.

Play the kids in the Carling Cup, a mix in the FA Cup and first team in CL and League. I

shamrock55

garra wrote: »

Hope this is tongue in cheek or irony of sorts, otherwise it's the internet equivalent of hoping tourists in your town don't spot the local headbangers and think everyone's like that

emmetkenny wrote: »

Play the kids in the Carling Cup, a mix in the FA Cup and first team in CL and League. I

We shouldn't have to play kids in league cup and a mix in fa cup, I want to win a ****ing trophy this year and we ain't gonna win the Prem or cl,6 or 7 years since we won anything and I'm sick of it,fcuk that we need silverware

TitianGerm

shamrock55 wrote: »

We shouldn't have to play kids in league cup and a mix in fa cup, I want to win a ****ing trophy this year and we ain't gonna win the Prem or cl,6 or 7 years since we won anything and I'm sick of it,fcuk that we need silverware

You have to play the kids somewhere so they can develop and push towards the first team. No point leaving them sit in the reserves or on the bench.

Talisman

Liverpool will return for Virgil van Dijk in June/July 2018.

People should keep in mind that in June 2016, Liverpool tried to sign a left back from Hull City. At the time the fans weren't impressed at the prospect of young Andrew Robertson being the player Jurgen Klopp had decided to fill the left back position but Hull City refused to sell the player. Liverpool also tried to sign Ben Chilwell from Leicester, he was seen as a player for the future.

Klopp has said that if he can't get the players he wants he will make do with what he has. In July 2016, James Milner became the first choice left back for the 2016/17 season. Twelve months later, Andrew Robertson was signed by Liverpool.

We can criticise Klopp all we want about not having a fallback option but his decision should be respected. I'm glad we have a manager that knows what he wants - if for whatever reason a player is deemed not good enough for Klopp then they're not good enough for Liverpool FC. For too long the club signed players that were considered plan B..Z options because the player that was first choice was unobtainable. With this approach, the squad became littered with players that didn't provide the necessary quality for the club to consistently compete. Klopp is changing that, he knows that he can't fix everything at once and thus far his first team signings have proved to be a success.

This summer, Virgil van Dijk was Klopp's choice for the much needed central defence upgrade. Club staff got a bit to mouthy and the press jumped the gun which scuppered the potential transfer deal. Klopp didn't panic or try to sign another defender, as we saw last year he will make do with what he has in his squad: Matip, Lovren and Klavan will be rotated. Gomez and Can can deputise when needed.

As it stands the first team have 25 fixtures before the transfer window opens in January - are five players enough to cover two positions? I think that they will suffice.

Boom_Bap

Centre Half is a difficult position to fill. I can see the logic in hanging on for VVD, we have the people in the squad now that Klopp likes in his system, why disrupt that by bringing in a body and try to mould them rather than waiting 6 months to get the perfect fit.

Harry Palmr

I think Klopp will deal with the lack of CBs by playing one at the back

---

Matip
TAA---Milner---Hendo---Moreno

---

Can----Wiji
-Salah---Firmino----Mane

rob316

Talisman wrote: »

Liverpool will return for Virgil van Dijk in June/July 2018.

People should keep in mind that in June 2016, Liverpool tried to sign a left back from Hull City. At the time the fans weren't impressed at the prospect of young Andrew Robertson being the player Jurgen Klopp had decided to fill the left back position but Hull City refused to sell the player. Liverpool also tried to sign Ben Chilwell from Leicester, he was seen as a player for the future.

Klopp has said that if he can't get the players he wants he will make do with what he has. In July 2016, James Milner became the first choice left back for the 2016/17 season. Twelve months later, Andrew Robertson was signed by Liverpool.

We can criticise Klopp all we want about not having a fallback option but his decision should be respected. I'm glad we have a manager that knows what he wants - if for whatever reason a player is deemed not good enough for Klopp then they're not good enough for Liverpool FC. For too long the club signed players that were considered plan B..Z options because the player that was first choice was unobtainable. With this approach, the squad became littered with players that didn't provide the necessary quality for the club to consistently compete. Klopp is changing that, he knows that he can't fix everything at once and thus far his first team signings have proved to be a success.

This summer, Virgil van Dijk was Klopp's choice for the much needed central defence upgrade. Club staff got a bit to mouthy and the press jumped the gun which scuppered the potential transfer deal. Klopp didn't panic or try to sign another defender, as we saw last year he will make do with what he has in his squad: Matip, Lovren and Klavan will be rotated. Gomez and Can can deputise when needed.

As it stands the first team have 25 fixtures before the transfer window opens in January - are five players enough to cover two positions? I think that they will suffice.

Exactly. For too long we have been buying stop gaps or just bodies to fill the squad and we have to shift them at a loss or on loan the following summer when they don't work out. You cant win with some fans, too much money has been wasted, I find it refreshing we have a manager who doesn't buy for the sake of it and will spend big to get the player he wants. Ox given his contract situation was expensive but Klopp wanted him and didn't want to risk him going somewhere else for free next summer.

Klopp couldn't get Keita so he will get him next summer that is guaranteed, he will get VVD too, be it January or next summer. I read he has a huge regret of not going for Keita last summer before he moved to RBL.

Wheety

We should have tried to get Hummels too. He's been tweeting about us a fair bit, how exciting we are to watch.

Would probably need to bid well over £100m the way that transfer window was going though

Osmosis Jones

Has it been an hour yet since someone mentioned how if Matip gets injured we'll have to play Lovren and Klavan together?

rob316

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Has it been an hour yet since someone mentioned how if Matip gets injured we'll have to play Lovren and Klavan together?

Oh were really ****ed now, never realized that :pac:

OwaynOTT

not yet wrote: »

Not being smart here but ''the more you look at it'''

One look, and a deaf blind man could see that CB pairing have to be amongst the worst out there..

The only problem is our scout is mute as well.

Just to clarify we are to clap hands when we score but if we concede due to woeful defending we all stay shtum ?

BorneTobyWilde

Grayditch wrote: »

For the record, I like Toby's posts but that looks straight out of a Paddy Power post comment section from ropey Liverpool fans.

His head and heart won't be in it. I stand by my opinion, I may be wrong though, but I think his frustration will show on pitch.
It's very different to Coutinho situation, a guy you could quote countless times about how happy he is at Liverpool, a guy who was looking forward to new season until Neymar left and Barca targeted him very late in the transfer window.
Virgil wanted out since Jan, we made interest known even before the window opened, they had all the time in the world to replace him with the huge price we were willing to pay, but Southampton took their frustration with Liverpool out on Virgil and made an example of him, a player who clearly does not want to play for them.
Coutinho wants to play for Liverpool, he said it over and over up to literally days ago, when Barca came knocking.

Wheety

Augeo wrote: »

Just to clarify we are to clap hands when we score but if we concede due to woeful defending we all stay shtum ?

What do you normally shout when we concede?

One_Of_Shanks

Never gambling again. That 120 quid on Phil to stay looks good now but not worth all the heart attacks along the way.
Mugs game.

Fair play to FSG though. They took a stance and stuck to it, when other clubs/owners would have buckled.

Still have a feeling that if we had landed Lemar things might have gone down different, but we'll never know.

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

I've been through this before though, you're gonna concede goals from set pieces. It's a small team in very basic terms. Tall teams usually top the set piece scoring charts, small teams struggle. But it's all about the bigger picture, they make up for it in other areas like being technically excellent on attacks. Carragher presented a retarded attack at Klopp last season on MNF about set piece goals conceded with no mention of relative height of sides and how this has a huge affect the stats, to which Klopp said "There is no solution. We do not have the tallest team in the league" and when asked for a remedy he dismissively joked "make my players taller". You'll always have your Carraghers and fans here that don't understand his ideology and fail to see the bigger picture.

While I understand this point and the general point with regards to how the exposed look of our defense is more a feature than a bug due to the overall tactical approach; I still believe that we had more than enough money available to purchase defenders better on an individual level than our current crop of centre backs. Over the course of a season, better ability to be in a good position, to win battles in space; to beat an attacker to a ball in the air could add up and be the difference in our ultimate results.

BoardsMember

Rekop dog wrote: »

I've been through this before though, you're gonna concede goals from set pieces. It's a small team in very basic terms. Tall teams usually top the set piece scoring charts, small teams struggle. But it's all about the bigger picture, they make up for it in other areas like being technically excellent on attacks. Carragher presented a retarded attack at Klopp last season on MNF about set piece goals conceded with no mention of relative height of sides and how this has a huge affect the stats, to which Klopp said "There is no solution. We do not have the tallest team in the league" and when asked for a remedy he dismissively joked "make my players taller". You'll always have your Carraghers and fans here that don't understand his ideology and fail to see the bigger picture.

Utter nonsense.

Being shorter does not stop you marking someone. The number of free headers we concede is alarming, whether they result in goals or not.

Also, our defensive deficiencies are not even remotely linked exclusively to set piece height disadvantage, even if what you say suggest re us being shorter than every other team. We make a hames of very basic defensive situations regularly.

brevity

Word on the street is Tom Wener was responsible for the VVD **** up.

Harry Palmr

brevity wrote: »

Word on the street is Tom Wener was responsible for the VVD **** up.

So long as it wasn't Tom Werner. If I've learnt anything this summer it's that the word on the street is an incoherent jumble in many languages all shouting at once.

The other thing I've learnt is that whatever Klopp says during the transfer window can be disregarded.

Agent Coulson

I would say the simplest answer is that Southampton leaked it.

For any number of reasons and I don't think anyone can blame them.

One_Of_Shanks

brevity wrote: »

Word on the street is Tom Wener was responsible for the VVD **** up.

I'd be amazed if that's true. An experienced businessman getting so giddy about a prospective signing (that costs his company money) that he blabbed to the media?

Someone screwed up alright but I'd be surprised if Werner is the culprit.

One_Of_Shanks

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I would say the simplest answer is that Southampton leaked it..

Nah, Liverpool apologised. Why would that happen if Southampton leaked it?

There were about 20 rags and internet sources who broke the news simultaneously and half of them were the usual suspects who Liverpool leak news to.

There's no clean sheet obsession. That's clearly a lie.

Anyone watching Liverpool in recent times knows a few goals could be conceded in quick succession quite easily.

Anyway, clean sheets surely give defenders some confidence so can't be a bad thing.

sword1

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Never gambling again. That 120 quid on Phil to stay looks good now but not worth all the heart attacks along the way.
Mugs game.

I had forgotten about this, as a rule no football bets but put 50 on this and checked now and it returned 125. They will probably get it back before the weekend anyway. Fairplay to fsg for sticking with it. We have a new 150 million signing and beat the selling club tag we were after getting.

A good season would be third and a cup or last sixteen champions league. One game at a time and a bit of luck is needed on the injury front. Lallana hopefully back in a month and Coutinho back is better so the squad is looking to have some depth of quality and options from the bench. It is looking like the first season in a while where the team won't pick itself and there will be selection dilemmas.

League title is going to Manchester with us a distant third, Chelsea fourth would be my prediction.

Sappy404

General assumptions at the time were that Liverpool encouraged him to publicly state his preference for them to ward off other suitors in order to weaken Southampton's hand and prevent a bidding war. If that's not true it would seem incredibly careless to say something like that after being tapped up, and especially after allowing yourself to be tracked to the meeting where it happened. I think Van Dijk and his advisors might have some questions to answer.

One_Of_Shanks

Sappy404 wrote: »

General assumptions at the time were that Liverpool encouraged him to publicly state his preference for them to ward off other suitors in order to weaken Southampton's hand and prevent a bidding war. r.

Is there any direct comment from VVD saying he wants to go to Liverpool?
None.

It wasn't like that at all.

Handled badly yes, but this stuff about getting him to say things is nonsense.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Animation of Liverpools first game, John Houldings Team of Macs:)

One_Of_Shanks

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Animation of Liverpools first game, John Houldings Team of Macs:)

That's pretty cool. Mon the Blues!

Sappy404

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Is there any direct comment from VVD saying he wants to go to Liverpool?
None.

It wasn't like that at all.

Handled badly yes, but this stuff about getting him to say things is nonsense.

Fair enough, he told Southampton he wanted Liverpool and it was widely reported that he did so. So no direct public statement, but as good as.

One_Of_Shanks

Sappy404 wrote: »

Fair enough, he told Southampton he wanted Liverpool and it was widely reported that he did so. So no direct public statement, but as good as.

Different to making him say things though.

Barca definitely played that card, comments coming from Coutinhos family and stuff.

We didn't do that, although we obviously screwed up and an apology was issued.

I'm just saying it's not right to accuse us of making him say things when it never happened.

Ox chose us over Chelsea. Nobody made him do that either.

54and56

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Looking at how klopp operates,he probably made it known to vvd that he was our top defensive target,maybe even future Capt, sold the club to him basically. I don't see him dumping on vvd just because the saints would not sell this summer,..if by next summer the stance is the same then there's not much we can do.. it sends out the right signals in our transfer dealings to Future targets, klopp is a man of his word.

It's actually a great way for a manager to show his players he will fight for them ,and they in turn will fight on the pitch for him.

I admire it to be honest,be much easier to spend the obvious cash we have on players not REALLY wanted,just filling a gap. Klopp knows if he fails he's bust so Fair play to him I say. The club seems confident through the managers confidence.

We may be short this year on players,I trust his plan though.

I agree with this but I still think he could have brought in some experienced cover at CB when it became clear VVD wasn't arriving this window but perhaps he sees Gomez as that guy.

One_Of_Shanks

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I agree with this but I still think he could have brought in some experienced cover at CB when it became clear VVD wasn't arriving this window but perhaps he sees Gomez as that guy.

He's patient. Above anything else. If we bought a CB for the sake of it then it just wouldn't be him.
I'd imagine he's confident of getting VVD in January.

So why buy a player you don't want for 4 months when you can buy the player you want for the next 10 years in 4 months time?

One_Of_Shanks

Rooney done for drink driving apparently.

Fun Bobby likes this.

Bandana boy

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

He's patient. Above anything else. If we bought a CB for the sake of it then it just wouldn't be him.
I'd imagine he's confident of getting VVD in January.

So why buy a player you don't want for 4 months when you can buy the player you want for the next 10 years in 4 months time?

Because your season could be over in January , that 4 months could be the difference in challenging for the title and getting out of the group stages of the CL.

It is not his money , let FSG worry about how they recoup money on a player we only need for 4 months.
What does Jurgen do if we still cant do a deal in Jan ?

Gaillimh1976

Bandana boy wrote: »

Because your season could be over in January , that 4 months could be the difference in challenging for the title and getting out of the group stages of the CL.

It is not his money , let FSG worry about how they recoup money on a player we only need for 4 months.
What does Jurgen do if we still cant do a deal in Jan ?

Is Steven Caulker still available ??

Irishmale0399

Bandana boy wrote: »

Because your season could be over in January , that 4 months could be the difference in challenging for the title and getting out of the group stages of the CL.

It is not his money , let FSG worry about how they recoup money on a player we only need for 4 months.
What does Jurgen do if we still cant do a deal in Jan ?

3-4 simple questions:

1. Would you let your brother in law spend your money for the sake of it...take a punt on something which might fit??

2. Do you remember which striker we ended up with the last time FSG spent money in a hurry???

3. Can you be sure that there isnt a deal already done for Jan or summer next year for VVD???

4. Do you understand how the owners and trainer are trying to rebuild the club???

As I see it...they (FSG & Klopp) are doing it slowly and in a responsible manner. The club is not carrying heavy debt, income is growing and it is nearly self sufficent. FSG are doing nothing else but treating the asset with respect that they told us they would when they arrived.

As for FSG spending...
- They went for and got Keita....club record
- Were willing to spend even more on VVD - would have been a club record
- Went for Lemar..had a fixed price set and didnt get him - again record fee

Unfortunately to buy a player you have to have a seller....
- we have so far told Barca Couts aint for sale...up to now they havent got him

- VVD is believed to have told the Saints he wanted to come to us..they said no - we didnt get him

- reports that Lemar wanted us and not Arsenel. Deal didnt come off....

What do I take from it....I assume Couts will end up at Barca..latest next year.

I assume VVD will join Liverpool at some point once both clubs work it out.

- Keita told Leipzig he wanted to move to Liverpool - we didnt get him first time round but we have him next season