Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

Mr.H

~Rebel~ wrote:

PSG will overtake them pretty soon alright one would imagine with the amount they're spending, but for right now, in their recent, and direct histories, Juve are more successful. Juve consistently outperforming PSG in the champions league year on year, and winning their own league every year.

To be honest if mess leaves barca and Madrid don't replace Ronaldo, I see PSG becoming the "big" team of Europe.

In a way it's great because by proxy it improves the French league due to the attraction with TV monies and sponsorship etc.

Having neymar and mbappe up front fighting it out for balon dor is a mouthwatering prospect for most fans

dogbert27

Why a modest release clause?

If release clauses are to become the norm for players in the Premiership now then the release clauses need to be similar to La Liga. Most of the Barca first 11 have release clauses over 100 million.

Or else a modest release clause with a 2 year activation date.

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

Why a modest release clause?

..........

Needs to be agreeable to the player too

MD1990

sword1 wrote: »

The only thing I can think of that is stopping them is that it will set a precedent. If can puts in a clause it could become the norm for likes of Woodburn etc who could be future superstars.

I think release clauses is going to become the norm for most of the top players now.

I would think a 90m release if we make CL & if we don't 60m would be a reasonable clause for Can.
I would hope he would want to stay if we were to become CL regulars & win/contend for trophies.

dogbert27

Augeo wrote: »

Needs to be agreeable to the player too

But this transfer window has completely blown valuations out of proportion. Maguire from Hull to Leceister for 17 million! Drinkwater to Chelsea for 30 million!

If we were to put 30 million release clause for Can AND give him a pay increase and a 5 year contract for his security everything in the contract is in the players favour.

He has a pay increase up to January where Juve come in and trigger his release clause. It has to be a figure that will make other clubs think first before trying to unsettle a player.

BoardsMember

If the release clause is the only thing that is hampering him staying I think that is brilliant news. Firstly because, if true, it suggests he actually wants to stay, whereas I was under the impression it was a fait accompli that he'd move to Juve in the summer. Secondly, of all things to be causing issues on contract negotiations, that is quite a bit easier than some of the others - pay, agent fees, bonuses etc. Fingers crossed, if we can keep our best players we will eventually win the Premiership.

sword1

The situation with players like Woodburn is frustrating but we can't complain too much as we have got ings and solanke in similar situations. He is with the club since he was playing under seven. He signed the maximum length contract he can at his age last year which is three years. So if he has a good twelve months there will be panic as he will be walking in another twelve months. It must be frustrating for clubs in that situation with over a decade invested in training and developing the player. I am only using Woodburn as an example not saying that I see a problem.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr.H wrote: »

~Rebel~ wrote:

PSG will overtake them pretty soon alright one would imagine with the amount they're spending, but for right now, in their recent, and direct histories, Juve are more successful. Juve consistently outperforming PSG in the champions league year on year, and winning their own league every year.

To be honest if mess leaves barca and Madrid don't replace Ronaldo, I see PSG becoming the "big" team of Europe.

In a way it's great because by proxy it improves the French league due to the attraction with TV monies and sponsorship etc.

Having neymar and mbappe up front fighting it out for balon dor is a mouthwatering prospect for most fans

I'd fear it would become another Scotland, with one powerhouse team dominating

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

..................

If we were to put 30 million release clause for Can AND give him a pay increase and a 5 year contract for his security everything in the contract is in the players favour.............

Yeah, I know.
I was thinking.......

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, club can't really say well we kept Coutinho as he didn't have a release clause as Can can just leave on a free next Summer so it's not at all analogous to Coutinho situation.

Throwing a 5 year £120k/week contract at him with a £50/60m release clause and job done.

Unless he wants a looney low amount to trigger the release, if Italy is his destination of choice he might be wary of the Italians not splashing the cash.

To be fair to Can, he's honouring his current contract and he's on modest wages & cost us practically nothing so we can't really complain if he wants to leave next Summer for whatever reason.

Can just saw us spend £40M on Ox who had a year left on his contract too. A £50/£60m release clause is realistic IMO

Knex*

Release clauses are not something I want to see the club start bringing in, I'd genuinely rather just let him walk. Other players will want one and there's the potential for a team coming in for Can late in a January transfer window and taking him from us, whilst we're left there dick in hand for the rest of the season without a replacement.

marklazarcovic

maybe its the terms of the release clause thats the problem,not the amount

Riesen_Meal

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

So did coutinho board the plane back to Liverpool.

Yeah,

Saw a photo of him posted on Willians Instagram on LFC Reddit...

If he comes back and knuckles down I don't really care what he does tbh...

PhiloCypher

Benzino wrote: »

If that's true, odd that we won't give him it. Better to have him stay for a few more years and leave for a set fee instead of leaving for free next year.

The club/Klopp probably don't want to set a precedent (yes I know Firmino has one , but that was under a different manager) or everyone will want one. These release clauses are like putting a big 'tap me up and I'll run down my contract till you can buy me for 10 bob and a packet of bacon fries ' FOR SALE sign on your players.

So the club have to weigh things up, hold fast and we risk losing Can for nothing but maintain our ability to dictate when and for how much our players go for in the future, or cave and everyone will want one.

The type of people to demand these clauses usually have one foot out the door anyway and will only sign contracts with a release clause low enough to entice an offer (unless of course you offer them a wage increase that's in keeping with the exorbitant release clause your inserting) so by caving we risk not getting proper market value for our players in the future . And in this crazy market that could see us missing out on as much as 40-50 Mil.

Boom_Bap

Can is smart, he's seen Suarez, Sterling and now Couthino with contract issues at the club and he's making sure that he's taking care of himself.
Nothing wrong with that. He has to have provisions in place for his future.

Francie Barrett

MD1990 wrote: »

Good interview with Jose Enrique.

Easy to forget what a good player he was before his injuries

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jose-enrique-secret-liverpool-agony-13579274

Wow, had no clue to the extent of his problems. Fair play to Klopp for making him captain on his last game. Feel bad now for slating him in the past.

Jesus Wept

redzerdrog wrote: »

One of the best responses was when someone asked what would ye say to MON

/doffs hat

ERG89

NukaCola wrote: »

No issue with a reasonable release clause.....tbh if I was a player signing a contract I'd probably insist on one, especially if you are negotiating from a strong position like Can is now.....

My issue would be if any other PL team met the buyout which if it's 40 million or so is very realistic. If he goes I would want it to be overseas & not Chelsea or City.

Nerdlingr

ERG89 wrote: »

My issue would be if any other PL team met the buyout which if it's 40 million or so is very realistic. If he goes I would want it to be overseas & not Chelsea or City.

Put different release clauses for domestic and foreign clubs. Hike up the domestic one because we dont want to lose him to a rival and leave the foreign one reasonable enough ... 60m?

Umaro

We should be looking to extend Firmino's contract this season and get rid of the £80m release clause in it. I feel by the end of the season he could be looking like a bargain at that price.

Negative_G

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Wow, had no clue to the extent of his problems. Fair play to Klopp for making him captain on his last game. Feel bad now for slating him in the past.

I wouldnt feel too bad for him. I'm sure he wasn't too upset at picking up £60k 3 years while doing SFA.

5starpool

sword1 wrote: »

The situation with players like Woodburn is frustrating but we can't complain too much as we have got ings and solanke in similar situations. He is with the club since he was playing under seven. He signed the maximum length contract he can at his age last year which is three years. So if he has a good twelve months there will be panic as he will be walking in another twelve months. It must be frustrating for clubs in that situation with over a decade invested in training and developing the player. I am only using Woodburn as an example not saying that I see a problem.

I'm guessing he can sign a longer deal in Oct when he's 18? Hopefully he will if that's the case anyhow.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Put different release clauses for domestic and foreign clubs. Hike up the domestic one because we dont want to lose him to a rival and leave the foreign one reasonable enough ... 60m?

Pity none of us are involved in the negotiations.

~Rebel~

Negative_G wrote: »

I wouldnt feel too bad for him. I'm sure he wasn't too upset at picking up £60k 3 years while doing SFA.

Money is obviously great. It makes life much easier, and removes most of the major worries your average person deals with.

But I still wouldn't underestimate how difficult it must be mentally to have the one thing that has defined you for your entire life up to that point taken away. We can see how many footballers hit serious mental problems after leaving the game, with nothing to replace it.

Depression in unemployed men isn't high because of the lack of associated money, it's high because of the sense of self worth that you lose without the purpose you've defined yourself by.

~Rebel~

5starpool wrote: »

I'm guessing he can sign a longer deal in Oct when he's 18? Hopefully he will if that's the case anyhow.

Him being in the academy for ten years, with an open route to the first team under Klopp, should hopefully be enough to get him to sign on for at least an initial 4 or 5 years anyway.

It's not quite the same as someone like Solanke who could see every generation of academy players before him be farmed out or sold off, without ever even getting a sniff of first team football. Woodburn has already played far more first team football than Solanke or Tammy Abraham did put together, and they were both very highly rated.

Harry Palmr

Ben Woodburn to be offered new deal for his birthday

Woodburn is only 12 months into the three-year deal he signed after turning 17 last October – his first professional contract and the maximum length of time he could sign for at that age. However, the Liverpool academy graduate becomes eligible to sign a five-year deal on his 18th birthday on 15 October and the club are set to reward his progress under Jürgen Klopp with a lucrative new contract.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/06/ben-woodburn-liverpool-deal-wales

Negative_G

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Money is obviously great. It makes life much easier, and removes most of the major worries your average person deals with.

But I still wouldn't underestimate how difficult it must be mentally to have the one thing that has defined you for your entire life up to that point taken away. We can see how many footballers hit serious mental problems after leaving the game, with nothing to replace it.

Depression in unemployed men isn't high because of the lack of associated money, it's high because of the sense of self worth that you lose without the purpose you've defined yourself by.

I can see your point and agree with it to a certain extent.

The other consideration is that professional footballers generally lack a decent education and as a result, lack the ability to plan ahead.The 'education' offered by many academies is a generally a token effort and offers very little except ticking a box.

That said, the career span of professionals usually spans 10-15 years in most cases. More than enough time for people to think about how they are going spend the next 40/50 years once they retire from the game. If people working a 9-5 slog with a family can manage (not looked after by a stay at home wife or expensive nanny) to study for degrees and masters part time, then there is no reason footballers can't do the same given their often leisurely lifestyle.

In fairness, some that have their head switched on do something about it. Most don't.

I don't have much sympathy or time for someone who has an almost endless supply of resources and finances and yet fails to make an adequate plan for the future. He likely earned over £9m in his last three seasons by running down his contract.

I think I'll save my sympathy for someone who genuinely needs it.

MD1990

Negative_G wrote: »

I can see your point and agree with it to a certain extent.

The other consideration is that professional footballers generally lack a decent education and as a result, lack the ability to plan ahead.The 'education' offered by many academies is a generally a token effort and offers very little except ticking a box.

That said, the career span of professionals usually spans 10-15 years in most cases. More than enough time for people to think about how they are going spend the next 40/50 years once they retire from the game. If people working a 9-5 slog with a family can manage (not looked after by a stay at home wife or expensive nanny) to study for degrees and masters part time, then there is no reason footballers can't do the same given their often leisurely lifestyle.

In fairness, some that have their head switched on do something about it. Most don't.

I don't have much sympathy or time for someone who has an almost endless supply of resources and finances and yet fails to make an adequate plan for the future. He likely earned over £9m in his last three seasons by running down his contract.

I think I'll save my sympathy for someone who genuinely needs it.

Your mental health has nothing to do with money.

You have a very narrow minded view.

Muahahaha

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Money is obviously great. It makes life much easier, and removes most of the major worries your average person deals with.

But I still wouldn't underestimate how difficult it must be mentally to have the one thing that has defined you for your entire life up to that point taken away. We can see how many footballers hit serious mental problems after leaving the game, with nothing to replace it.

Depression in unemployed men isn't high because of the lack of associated money, it's high because of the sense of self worth that you lose without the purpose you've defined yourself by.

There was some crazy stats about depression in professional footballers that came out a couple of years ago. iirc 30% of them suffer depression during their playing careers in some degree or other. It comes about because they are placed under such high expectations and when they cant achieve those expectations they blame themselves. That much is obvious from the Enrique interview posted earlier. He might have been on £60k a week but that is fcuk all use if you cannot do the very thing that defines you- football. I really feel for Danny Ings right now as he is in the exact same position, he is fighting his arse off to get out of it but he knows that he is only one more injury away from his career being over, before it has really started. It actually doesnt matter how much you are earning, if you are under that kind of pressure to preform and then despite your very best efforts your body does not permit it then it is no surprise that your head cannot handle it and depression seeps in.

It is very easy to forget that 90% of footballers who play for the underage teams of Premier League clubs never make the grade to the senior squad. Niall Quinn spoke eloquently about it after his time at Sunderland, he hated being part of a system that allows kids to dream but at the same time knowing well that 90% of them would fail and be left without an education.

dogbert27

All this talk about depression is depressing me.

dogbert27

Any news on who the goalkeeper will be this weekend?

My money's on Milner.

OwaynOTT

Also, I'm sure the fear of being crippled is great craic altogether.

Milkers

MD1990 wrote: »

Your mental health has nothing to do with money.

You have a very narrow minded view.

That's just not true for many people.

Harry Palmr

Milkers wrote: »

That's just not true for many people.

How would you know?

Money does not fix psychology issues or a chronic illness. A nice house is not a cure for anything other than lack of space.

Harambe

dogbert27 wrote: »

Any news on who the goalkeeper will be this weekend?

My money's on Milner.

Klopp said it will definitely be Simon.

dogbert27

Looks like Mignolet will be back in goals.

I think we have to start with the same front 3. Mane Firmino and Salah.

Back 4 I think will be Gomez Matip Lovren (although could be Klavan due to Lovren playing 2 games in 48 hours) and Moreno although I would prefer Robinson.

The 3 midlfield should be the same, Henderson, Can and Wij.

dogbert27

Options for the bench:
Karius
Sturridge
Ox
Milner
Coutinho
TAA
Lovren/Klavan

Looking at that you can see why Origi was allowed to go on loan. Really no room for him with Woodburn coming through too.

dogbert27

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

cj maxx

Seemingly it's 10,000 days since we won the league:(
Can't wait to do the league and champions league double this year

billymitchell

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

On form you would have to say Henderson should lose out, but it will more than likely be Wij. But I think Klopp has lot of time for Wij and what he does, so it wouldnt surprise me if it was Henderson either. I doubt he will be dropping Can any time soon if we are trying to keep the lad at the club

Boom_Bap

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

I think Can is going to be hit the hardest, especially when Lalana comes back to fitness. Gini will be rotated a bit as well. But as the season goes on, with injuries and more games, it's quite the luxury to have the options.

dogbert27

billymitchell wrote: »

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

On form you would have to say Henderson should lose out, but it will more than likely be Wij. But I think Klopp has lot of time for Wij and what he does, so it wouldnt surprise me if it was Henderson either. I doubt he will be dropping Can any time soon if we are trying to keep the lad at the club

Yeah equally there's no point fighting to keep Coutinho if we're not going to use him either. But as you say in terms of a "like for like" replacement it should be Henderson making way.

I think if Coutinho didn't push for the move to Barcelona he could have been made captain this season.

dogbert27

Our domestic cup team doesn't look bad if its:

Karius
TAA Klavan Gomez Robertson/Moreno
Milner Ox/Can Wij
Woodburn/Ox Sturridge Ings

dogbert27

billymitchell wrote: »

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

On form you would have to say Henderson should lose out, but it will more than likely be Wij. But I think Klopp has lot of time for Wij and what he does, so it wouldnt surprise me if it was Henderson either. I doubt he will be dropping Can any time soon if we are trying to keep the lad at the club

Equally though the longer Can's contract stalls and he can start talking to clubs in January he should be getting phased out

Atticus Jung

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Coutinho earn his place back in the team

Agent Coulson

I don't think Wijnaldum will be the one to lose out myself his recycling of the ball and all the grunt work he get through is better than anyone else we have in the squad at the moment.

Boom_Bap

Atticus Jung wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Coutinho earn his place back in the team

I don't think so, it would be a strange message saying that we are not selling the player as they are indispensable, but then not play them showing that they are in fact dispensable.

He'll come on as a sub in the City game along with Ox to great applause.

dogbert27

Atticus Jung wrote: »

dogbert27 wrote: »

If the front three are more or less set with Mane-Firmino-Salah who loses out in midfield for Coutinho? Henderson is the captain so he'll keep his place so between Wij and Can?

I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Coutinho earn his place back in the team

True but it's still the same question. Who does he replace?

dogbert27

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I don't think Wijnaldum will be the one to lose out myself his recycling of the ball and all the grunt work he get through is better than anyone else we have in the squad at the moment.

Yeah I was thinking Can myself but he's in good form at the moment. If he gets dropped then it justifies his position on his contract negotiaitons.

citytillidie

cjmc wrote: »

Seemingly it's 10,000 days since we won the league:(
Can't wait to do the league and champions league double this year

Ahh somebody seen the factually incorrect video on facebook that has been floating about

Mr.H

dogbert27 wrote:

True but it's still the same question. Who does he replace?

Coutinho is going bot play center mid. It's what we've talked about all summer and why klopp seemed so annoyed at the whole situation. We planned for this huge idea of building around coutinho in center mid.

It'll probably be Can Wjin and Hendo starting. Phil will probably replace Wjin with Ox replacing one of the front wide lads.

I think we will see Alex playing on the front flanks this season as there is less competition there realistically

Mr.H

April 22 1990.....

Your six days early. We won the title on April 28th 1990 (won it with two games to spare)