Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

~Rebel~

daithijjj wrote: »

Mignolet and Moreno played, and are common denominators, in both these games (Lovren played neither). Also, both are well capable of being in contention for worst keeper and left back in the entire league.

There's a kid at right back and a 'random nobody' beside Matip. This is what we send out away to Man City a few games into a new season?. Its desperate!

I think a fair amount of our fanbase have still not comprehended the absolute and total neglect by everyone involved in assembling a defence worthy of the club.

Palace just bought a CB off us that cost them the same as our back 5 today cost us.

On any given day im absolutely positive this defence has complete calamity in its locker.

The CB thing really is frustrating... I just can't have any faith in someone like Klavan being able to stop the likes of Aguero or Jesus when it comes down to it. He's very much a known quantity - he's 31 and a decent solid chap to have against Burnley or something, but is always going to look out of his depth against the best.

And as you mention Sakho, that first goal is exactly the type of ball he'd have stretched a leg out on and stopped before it got to Aguero. Klopp doesn't like him, and that's fine, but he had to be replaced.

Of our current CB's I'd really rather Gomez became 3rd choice because at least there's the chance he'll surprise us.

J Mysterio

Gbear wrote: »

I think maybe another consequence of the way we play is we're particularly bad at dealing with a man disadvantage.

If your gameplan is predicated on keeping the other team off balance with your energy and pressing then if that evaporates, what are you left with?
And further to that, City again looked really vulernable today and it seems if you can get among them they **** themselves a bit, but if they're left in space they have the quality to blow teams away, and us with 10 men might be the worst example of that.

100%. I thought we would blow them away, but we didnt take our early chances. We seemed to still be in the hunt after conceding, but the sending off seemed to absolutely kill the team, almost more then a sending off normally would or should. It seemed the collective thought of thr team was - 'if we can't press properly, it's over'

Jesus Wept

I like Mane's hustle.

rgace

Turtyturd wrote: »

Not related to the sending off but something that annoyed me. Surely he should have implemented the rules and booked Sane for cutting down Moreno, like he did with Can on Aguero.

Also, De Bruyne waving the imaginary card after he was fouled by TAA. Is it no longer a yellow card offence to do this?

Turtyturd

rgace wrote: »

Also, De Bruyne waving the imaginary card after he was fouled by TAA. Is it no longer a yellow card offence to do this?

Was it ever a definite yellow? Always seemed to be something that was ignored by refs in general with the odd exception. But there's no way a player in blue was getting carded for gesturing yesterday when they were getting away with tackles like Sane's.

Turtyturd

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

From the time of Mane's injury to the end of last season Sturridge started 2 games and scored 1 goal. Think his "stepping up" is a little exaggerated. Now, maybe he can help us out and step up in Mane's absence next weekend.

Stepping up indeed. Keeping that 1 in 2 rate going, what a player.

ThunbergsAreGo

rgace wrote: »

Also, De Bruyne waving the imaginary card after he was fouled by TAA. Is it no longer a yellow card offence to do this?

And Otamendis wreckless knee into Manes ribs

Buford T. Justice XIX

naughtb4 wrote: »

And Otamendis wreckless knee into Manes ribs

https://twitter.com/thetomkinstimes/status/906772262438752256

Again, lack of consistency by refs.

Chardee MacDennis

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thetomkinstimes/status/906772262438752256

Again, lack of consistency by refs.

Turtyturd

Is the Otamendi incident the one where Fernanwhichever one fouled Mane and Otamendi collided with him on the ground?

Would've been harsh. Although I think if Mane had not been fouled Otamendi was at risk of another booking considering how he lunged in.

Getting spanked 5 nil is bad enough..... retrospectively discussing how many yellow cards city didn't get is small-time IMO

SlickRic

I can't believe how many have just written off all that happened after the sending off.

I know it's 'hell' playing a Pep team 11 v 10 but there's no way we should be losing 5-0 from that position, especially after dominating the game.

We gave up for no good reason.

It also exposed our horrendous limitations at CB.

ricero

I expect anfield to be rocking on wednesday night and a big performance after yesterday

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

I can't believe how many have just written off all that happened after the sending off.

I know it's 'hell' playing a Pep team 11 v 10 but there's no way we should be losing 5-0 from that position, especially after dominating the game.

We gave up for no good reason.

It also exposed our horrendous limitations at CB.

Indeed.....can't fathom klopp being complicit or impressed.

Obviously at 2 down if you nick one your back in it. The second half was an embarrassment to LFC.

Gbear

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thetomkinstimes/status/906772262438752256

Again, lack of consistency by refs.

There's no law in the rules that says "thou shalt not raise thine foot above a certain height or thou shalt be smitten with a red card".

The height, the direction, the fact that he left the ground and the speed all contributed to the danger posed.

Just dangling a foot around head height where it almost certainly won't do any serious harm isn't the same as the accidental flying kick Mane ended up planting on Ederson's jaw.

The ref has to make a judgement on how reckless the action was, so there's an element of subjectivity, but you'd have to be seriously obtuse to compare this one with the Mane foul.

It could be a free. Depending on other angles rather than a still image (which makes it hard to judge for sure), maybe it does even merit a yellow, because there's a small chance it might catch an eye or whatever.
You're not likely to kill a man doing it though.

Charlie19 wrote: »

5-0 is a ****

Its right up there with 6-1 Stoke.

I cant remember any other hammerings.

It's absolutely nothing even remotely like that.

It's similar to people comparing this to the Arsenal result last week.

In one you have a fair fight between two teams and one absolutely blows the other away because they're utter ****e.
In the other you have a fairly even contest when a player is sent off at a key moment that totally changes the dynamic of the game.

And there's a world of difference between losing to a shower like ****ing Stoke and City.

Blondie919

SlickRic wrote: »

I can't believe how many have just written off all that happened after the sending off.

I know it's 'hell' playing a Pep team 11 v 10 but there's no way we should be losing 5-0 from that position, especially after dominating the game.

We gave up for no good reason.

It also exposed our horrendous limitations at CB.

I agree and how can so many say that we should just forget about the result and move on. That it was just a blip. WTF? What if it's not a blip? We just threw in the towel after the sending off. Didn't even make a fight of it. With this defence there will be more hammerings along the way.

Harry Palmr

SlickRic wrote: »

I can't believe how many have just written off all that happened after the sending off.

I know it's 'hell' playing a Pep team 11 v 10 but there's no way we should be losing 5-0 from that position, especially after dominating the game.

We gave up for no good reason.

It also exposed our horrendous limitations at CB.

Liverpool gave up as Klopp wrote the game off at HT, maybe if it had still been 1-0 he'd have decided to make a game of it but a two goal deficit was impossible against that City attack. They'd have just picked Liverpool off on the counter rather than playing through the middle if Klopp had instructed the 10 to try and score. As for why City were able to play through the midfield, well ask Klopp. He picks the side and makes the adjustments during the game.

Liverpool are a brittle side quite often, as the red card aftermath unfolded you could see they were completely distracted instead of knuckling down.

NukaCola

SlickRic wrote: »

I can't believe how many have just written off all that happened after the sending off.

I know it's 'hell' playing a Pep team 11 v 10 but there's no way we should be losing 5-0 from that position, especially after dominating the game.

We gave up for no good reason.

It also exposed our horrendous limitations at CB.

This should have been obvious before a ball was kicked this season, and it was to many. I'm not going to moan about something I and many have been saying all summer though. Defensively we are as weak as we have ever been in the EPL probably.

I'm a bit shocked at how badly we performed still tbh. To lose 5-0 you might have thought we just went for it and attacked them and they picked us off, but no. We didn't shut up shop and just take a 2/3-0 either. We got proper hammered and Klopp and the squad had no answers. Without our attack our whole system does not function. We may get away with 10v11 against a Crystal Palace or Burnley but up against quality we will suffer, and tbf many probably would also.

Its important to see a bounce back now. Hopefully its just one of those games, its a slight worry but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Move on and hope our attack can save us in as many games as possible.

Iused2likebusts

Blondie919 wrote: »

I agree and how can so many say that we should just forget about the result and move on. That it was just a blip. WTF? What if it's not a blip? We just threw in the towel after the sending off. Didn't even make a fight of it. With this defence there will be more hammerings along the way.

I don't think there will with 11 on the pitch we generally dominate the ball. How many hammerings did we have last season. I think its better to use evidence from a bigger timescale rather than from 1 game away to the best team in the league with a man down.

Blondie919

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I don't think there will with 11 on the pitch we generally dominate the ball. How many hammerings did we have last season. I think its better to use evidence from a bigger timescale rather than from 1 game away to the best team in the league with a man down.

Okay fair enough point. I'm just still shocked at how we just folded when going a man down. There has to be a plan in case it happens again. The defence gives me the heebie jeebies though. Matip was terrible yesterday and he's supposed to one of our best!

shamrock55

I'd actually have Lovr,en in the side instead of matip,but it's impossible trying to juggle around 3 utter **** CBS to see which 2 are less **** together

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Liverpool gave up as Klopp wrote the game off at HT, maybe if it had still been 1-0 he'd have decided to make a game of it but a two goal deficit was impossible against that City attack. ........
...

This isn't fact of course.
It's popular speel in here to suit a circumstance.

Like when we weren't expected to splash the cash on big signings we had to read the in the knows telling us klopp will buy young players and develop them.

When we tried to splash the cash than it was as these players were perfect for klopp, none other will do.

We're now waiting to sign Virgil I suppose and letting Klavan get plenty 2017 games.

Unreal.

Agent Coulson

I didn't see it yesterday but put myself through it this morning.

Hendersons weak header from DM cost us the first goal and Ragnar was left on his own with two City players.

TAA got shown up for the kid he is for the second and most of the game and CB's just not dominant enough.

Hendersons weak Hollywood pass was intercepted for the third goal.

They walked right through the righthand side of the the team for the fourth goal Liverpool weren't interested at that stage.

The fifth goal was a cracker but again Liverpool weren't interested in the game at that stage.


No Liverpool player really did themselves proud.

I thought Moreno was probably the best Liverpool player on the pitch.

Salah should have made it 1-1.

Unintentional but a red card for Mane.

Liverpool players gave up on this game in the second half.


I really don't understand why Klopp dropped Lovren for Ragnar.

Osmosis Jones

Blondie919 wrote: »

I agree and how can so many say that we should just forget about the result and move on.

Because meltdowns are dumb.

We're 3 points off the top, we have the same amount of points as we did at this stage last season and we've gotten 7 points from Watford(A) Palace(H) Arsenal(H) and City(A), which is the same point total we got from those fixtures last season.

It was a terrible result, performance, and day, but it's nothing more than 3 points and 5 GD dropped, with some added embarrassment thrown on top.

You might say it's a result that's indicative of things to come but losing away to Man City with 10 men is surely an outlier. I agree our defence is poor, but it's the same shíte defence that got us into the top 4 last season, just because we didn't add a CB doesn't mean our season is over 4 games in.

OI think clyne is missed defensively. He gets slaughtered for being sh1t going forward but with Mane & salah we can now well afford to play at least one capable defensively full back.

Unfortunately it could be 2018 before clyne is back

Moreno is worse than milner defensively too so our bAck 4 is worse than last year unless 2 of milner, clyne & Robertson play.

ricero

Augeo wrote: »

I think clyne is missed defensively. He gets slaughtered for being sh1t going forward but with Mane & salah we can now well afford to play at least one capable defensively full back.

Unfortunately it could be 2018 before clyne is back

Joe gomez over trent from now on. Much more solid and wont be bullied due to his size.

Thats not a knock on trent who i think has a bright future

Iused2likebusts

Augeo wrote: »

I think clyne is missed defensively. He gets slaughtered for being sh1t going forward but with Mane & salah we can now well afford to play at least one capable defensively full back.

Unfortunately it could be 2018 before clyne is back

I'd play milner rb until clyne is back.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Hendersons weak header from DM cost us the first goal and Ragnar was left on his own with two City players.

Klavan delayed on the ball, passed it to Mig, who yet again punted it forward not finding a Liverpool team mate. Henderson headed the ball to Wij who was easily pushed off the ball. Klavans positioning was terrible, he was 2 yards deeper than everybody playing 2 City players onside and Mig's "challenge" to stop Aguero was similar to that of a drunken stuper. Henderson had a poor game but wasn't the sole reason we conceded the first.

Osmosis Jones

Also I still think he's a príck but I can't wait for Coutinho to get back into the side. I haven't forgotten about just how good his link up with Salah was in pre-season.

NukaCola

We miss Lallanas energy in the middle also.

Harry Palmr

Missing Lallana as well, he's great for the high press without him it's easier to get into the meat of the Liverpool midfield and as long as Henderson is one third of that there will be problems in front of the CBs. When everyone is back I'd have to drop him to the bench along with Ox-Cham and use him as a 70 minute sub to run at the opposition through the middle.

murpho999

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I didn't see it yesterday but put myself through it this morning.

Hendersons weak header from DM cost us the first goal and Ragnar was left on his own with two City players.

TAA got shown up for the kid he is for the second and most of the game and CB's just not dominant enough.

Hendersons weak Hollywood pass was intercepted for the third goal.

They walked right through the righthand side of the the team for the fourth goal Liverpool weren't interested at that stage.

The fifth goal was a cracker but again Liverpool weren't interested in the game at that stage.


No Liverpool player really did themselves proud.

I thought Moreno was probably the best Liverpool player on the pitch.

Salah should have made it 1-1.

Unintentional but a red card for Mane.

Liverpool players gave up on this game in the second half.


I really don't understand why Klopp dropped Lovren for Ragnar.

Like yourself, I only saw the game this morning,

Agree with a lot of what you said but I do feel the red card totally changed the game. I'm not convinced it was a red card, if a keeper comes rushing out like that he can expect a challenge and that is what he got. If that had happened in midfield then it was a yellow card at best.

Before City scored we could have been 2-0 up if the correct passes had been made and Salah needs to improve his final ball and his finishing.

Defence as a group need to take responsibility for this.
I would not say Moreno was our best player. Why? What did he do? Just simply not have any noticeable screw up leading to a goal is not enough. What did he contribute?
I would question his reactions to how Klavan was left marking two players for the first goal. Watch it again and see Moreno just trotting back instead of busting a gut to get back and provide help and cover.
Easy to just blame Henderson for a poor header but how did Liverpool react and you have to give credit to de Bruyne for a great pass to Aguero.

As for Lovren, Klopp clearly does not rate him and rightly does not trust him and that's why he's not picking him.
I just hope we get VVD in January as he is badly needed.

Overall though, I don't think it's as bad as the scoreline looks. It could easily have been very different.
Compare this to Arsenal's performance against us when we played them off the park and offered nothing but Liverpool started really well in this game and could have scored so it could have been very different.

Team need to learn from this, move on and get back to winning ways.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

..

As for Lovren, Klopp clearly does not rate him and rightly does not trust him and that's why he's not picking him.
I just hope we get VVD in January as he is badly needed.

.....s.

I thought lovren was carrying a knock or something?

He's better than Klavan anyway.

If klopp doesn't rate or trust him what was the improved contract about?

murpho999

Augeo wrote: »

I thought lovren was carrying a knock or something?

He's better than Klavan anyway.

If klopp doesn't rate or trust him what was the improved contract about?

I have not heard of him carrying a knock and he was on the subs bench.

Klopp definitely does not rate him, that's why he wants VVD.

davyboy1975

murpho999 wrote: »

I have not heard of him carrying a knock and he was on the subs bench.

Klopp definitely does not rate him, that's why he wants VVD.

Klopp said before the game he was being rested because he played two games for croatia in 48 hours and was not 100 percent.

murpho999

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Klopp said before the game he was being rested because he played two games for croatia in 48 hours and was not 100 percent.

Ok, so that is not a knock.

If he was a top player he would have played him in a game like this.

Agent Coulson

When your defence is as fragile as ours you at the very least want a solid screen in front to them and Henderson does not offer that in anyway whatsoever it's not part of his game.

Henderson is a solid attacking midfielder but wouldn't get anywhere being a regular starter for us in that position.


Our issue is right now we don't really have a player who can do that with Lucas gone and it took him years to understand that role after starting out as an attacking midfielder.

Can is probably the closest we have who can do it out of our midfielders I wouldn't be surprised to see the midfield three when Coutinho is back being Can as that player with Coutinho and Wijnaldum making up the three.

Harry Palmr

Such a pity that Can is the one running his contract down, Henderson knows this is as good as it'll get for him

Milkers

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I'd play milner rb until clyne is back.

Yep, Milner on the right and Robertson on the left. Have to say as a huge Klopp fan my biggest disappointment with him so far is his performance re CB this past transfer window. It was bananas to only have one target, especially when it was clear from early on there was a high probability he couldn't be landed. On top of that his inability/refusal to reintegrate Sakho, a player not without his faults, but who is miles superior to Lovren or Klavan still doesn't sit well imo. It's already looking like a massive miscalculation.

Osmosis Jones

I'd like to see this team for Sevilla:

Karius
Gomez-Matip-Lovren-Robertson
Can
Wijnaldum-Coutinho
Salah-Firmino-Mane

But I doubt Coutinho will start, probably have Henderson in place of him and swapped with Can.

Coutinho back in hopefully.

Looking forward to seeing him and Salah combine

Grayditch

It's pretty pointless to talk about the frightening frailties. A lot of people in here don't wanna hear it and also... The club doesn't seem bothered about fixing them. We have one of, if not the best attack in the league, why not just get harsh-but-fair about the rest, I don't know.

I can't get over the state of the defence.

Nerdlingr

Still dont get all the 'hate' for henderson. I think he's our best midfielder out of the three. Klopp gave up on the game at half time for me. Took off our biggest threat in salah and tried to consolidate. Very poor performance defensively second half - we bascially had nine behind the ball and they cut through us time and time again.

Harry Palmr

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I'd like to see this team for Sevilla:

Karius
Gomez-Matip-Lovren-Robertson
Can
Wijnaldum-Coutinho
Salah-Firmino-Mane

But I doubt Coutinho will start, probably have Henderson in place of him and swapped with Can.

If Henderson starts and Coutinho doesn't the diamond would be the least worst formation for me as it would nullify Hendo's least endearing traits and make use of his runs from deeper.

Milner--Matip-Lovren--Moreno (I think he'll start in Europe most games)

---

Can

---

Hendo--Wijn

---

Firmino

---

Salah----Mane

Osmosis Jones

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Still dont get all the 'hate' for henderson. I think he's our best midfielder out of the three. Klopp gave up on the game at half time for me. Took off our biggest threat in salah and tried to consolidate. Very poor performance defensively second half - we bascially had nine behind the ball and they cut through us time and time again.

He's not a good DM. I think he'd work better as the box-to-box midfielder where he can actually utilise his great pressing, but the position he currently plays allows him to do nothing more than try audacious passes all game. We've seen twice this season already what he can do when given freedom to roam forward, first with the tackle on Vogt that set Firmino up for his goal vs Hoffenheim, and then again tackling Ozil and playing a 1-2 with Firmino to create another chance. He's far better at pressuring the opposition in their own half than being a screen in front of the backline.

Utopia Parkway

To be honest at the moment I think our defence is worse than last season if anything. We still have the same centre-halves but Clyne and Milner were more solid defensively than Moreno and TAA are.

None of our players are natural defensive midfielders tbf. We have guys that can do a job every now again. Ridiculous that one and a top class CB wasn't recruited for this season.

Nerdlingr

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He's not a good DM. I think he'd work better as the box-to-box midfielder where he can actually utilise his great pressing, but the position he currently plays allows him to do nothing more than try audacious passes all game. We've seen twice this season already what he can do when given freedom to roam forward, first with the tackle on Vogt that set Firmino up for his goal vs Hoffenheim, and then again tackling Ozil and playing a 1-2 with Firmino to create another chance. He's far better at pressuring the opposition in their own half than being a screen in front of the backline.

Yeah he's not a DM, but i dont think we play with one. And i dont think klopp plays that role either. Just because he's plays central in a midfield three doesn't make him our DM. He's not a sitter, just as can and wijnaldum arent sitters. As you said his best role is a lung busting box to box role...which he kinda plays at the moment. I just think he's become a bit of an easy scapegoat when things go wrong because he tries to switch the play - which is a great asset to have, and something he does really well for the most part...he's put some great swinging crosses into the box/far post the last year or so, he's added that to his game too. He's come on in leaps and bounds over the years and for me he'd be the first name on the teamsheet in midfield.

Plus, I don't believe all our defenders are poor players. The system (like Rodgers) is making them look like mugs. VVD wouldn't look great playing with no protection either.

It's all great when we are banging in goals, but we'll have lots of days when we concede a number of goals.

noodler

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

To be honest at the moment I think our defence is worse than last season if anything. We still have the same centre-halves but Clyne and Milner were more solid defensively than Moreno and TAA are.

All the Clyne abuse last season, I always maintained his defensive side was more important.

We are now weaker at the back with him out and Moreno in, I'm still not sold on it despite his reasonable performances.