Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

yourdeadwright

If Klopp doesn't;t turn things around who would people like to see replace him ?
Id love Diego Simeone, he'd be a perfect fit,

NukaCola

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Other teams are exploiting our weakness, and our main weakness is our weakness.

Cant argue with that :P

BullBlackNova

awec wrote: »

So long as Henderson remains club captain he will be starting every game he's fit.

The squad is not exactly brimming with candidates for the captaincy with a glaring lack of leadership on display, so if you take it from Henderson who do you give it to?

And even if there were someone, the time to do this was pre-sesaon, not now.

I'd rather see Lallana, Can, Milner, Firmino or, despite everything, Coutinho as captain. Even Lovren, Matip or Mignolet strike me as better options than Henderson.

I'm not entirely knocking Henderson as a footballer here, I just don't see him as a captain by any metric of it.

However, I also think people put too much focus on captaincy on the basis of former captains shouting, roaring and driving. I mean, primarily, it is a link between the players and the referee, and the players and management. Media responsibilities are shared out among different players now too. Your whole team should be taking responsibility for their roles and not have to be directed by one player at the centre of it all. Carra, Kuyt and Mascherano were always vocal on the pitch when they were here, it was never just Gerrard.

Look at United, though. José handled a tricky situation of a club legend and captain being phased out of the side, promptly handed the armband to Michael Carrick and then removed him from the side too. It's easier with players at the end of their career than those early in it but, sometimes, it needs to be done.

redzerdrog

Harry Palmr wrote: »

MOOT Its MOOT! :pac:

Milner, Can, Coutinho is what I'd go for in the next few games. Milner is able to use the ball more intelligently than Henderson, this would set Can free to be the "runner" of the mid three taking the ball into the opposition third linking up with the front Coutinho and the front three. Lallana cannot get back soon enough though.

After last weekend I never want to see Milner and can in the same midfield again. Just not mobile/agile enough

Agent Coulson

Captains don't need to be shouty they need to lead by example and Hollywood Henderson doesn't lead by example.

Osmosis Jones

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Klopp doesn't;t turn things around who would people like to see replace him ?
Id love Diego Simeone, he'd be a perfect fit,

Klopp's not leaving any time soon and I don't see how Simeone would be at all a good fit for Liverpool bar him being a good manager.

Harry Palmr

If Henderson was not at the club - how many here (or anywhere) would be mentioning him as a transfer target? No-one. There is nothing he does that someone else cannot do at least as well and usually better.

He cannot set the appropriate tempo
He cannot control space in front of the CBs
He cannot open up the opposition with a pass
He rarely sets a player free down the flanks
He has more or less stopped tracking and tackling back with any effect
No one looks to him in terms of Captaincy, he does not talk on the pitch as far as I can see when things are going wrong.

and finally

There is not a single 8 year old in the world who wants to grow up to be Jordan Henderson.

SlickRic

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Klopp doesn't;t turn things around who would people like to see replace him ?
Id love Diego Simeone, he'd be a perfect fit,

it's not a Klopp problem.

if you invest badly, you won't win. it's as simple as that.

NukaCola

Think the stick Henderson is getting is a bit much. He was made Captain by both BR and Klopp and captained his country. The main problem I have with him is he doesn't get in the refs ear enough and he's playing a position that just doesn't suit him at all. Neither are his fault tbh.

BullBlackNova

NukaCola wrote: »

Think the stick Henderson is getting is a bit much. He was made Captain by both BR and Klopp and captained his country. The main problem I have with him is he doesn't get in the refs ear enough and he's playing a position that just doesn't suit him at all. Neither are his fault tbh.

Surely the piece in bold is directly his fault? Sorry, feeling pedantic today :P

I think he's a fine player, I don't think he is good enough to start every game for us. He tends to match the performances of players around him - when we play well, he plays well. When we play badly, he plays badly. At Sunderland, when they played badly, he played well, he seems to have lost that knack sadly.

In our current system (4-3-3 press), I think he would more valuable in either of the other two midfield roles than the defensive one. It doesn't play to his strengths. That said, he is not better in the other two roles than any of the players have to play there - Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Coutinho - so if we signed a dedicated DM (or at least someone better at the role than he is to play there), I don't see how we can include him when picking our best XI.

NukaCola

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Surely the piece in bold is directly his fault? Sorry, feeling pedantic today :P

I think he's a fine player, I don't think he is good enough to start every game for us. He tends to match the performances of players around him - when we play well, he plays well. When we play badly, he plays badly. At Sunderland, when they played badly, he played well.

In our current system (4-3-3 press), I think he would more valuable in either of the other two midfield roles than the defensive one. It doesn't play to his strengths. That said, he is not better in the other two roles than any of the players have to play there - Can, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Coutinho - so if we signed a dedicated DM (or at least someone better at the role than he is to play there), I don't see how we can include him when picking our best XI.

:pac: I meant being made captain and his position

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ODwj833T9s

Not happy with players. He's right
though, replay will show why we concede, and it will show players that fr what ever reason switch off.
They can never play 90 mins concentrated fully.

Nerdlingr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Henderson was not at the club - how many here (or anywhere) would be mentioning him as a transfer target? No-one. There is nothing he does that someone else cannot do at least as well and usually better.

He cannot set the appropriate tempo
He cannot control space in front of the CBs
He cannot open up the opposition with a pass
He rarely sets a player free down the flanks
He has more or less stopped tracking and tackling back with any effect
No one looks to him in terms of Captaincy, he does not talk on the pitch as far as I can see when things are going wrong.

and finally

There is not a single 8 year old in the world who wants to grow up to be Jordan Henderson.

well thats bullsh*t anyway.

ricero

Our lack of finishing is letting us down more than the defence at the moment i feel

Nerdlingr

Gomez plays everyone onside when the rest of the team push out for the first and Klavan gets outmuscled and loses his man for the second yet its all henderson's fault again. Jesus its getting tiresome. He was also part of a midfield that destroyed Leciester in the first half keeping the ball moving, covering, dropping back, spreading the play...but its probably his fault we didnt covert any of our chances too.

Knex*

https://twitter.com/AnfieldHQ/status/910245662792577025

Vicxas

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Captains don't need to be shouty they need to lead by example and Hollywood Henderson doesn't lead by example.

People are fickle when it comes to him. Been saying for ages he's been incredibly inconsistent

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Has he rated Klavan, Moreno, Mignolet, our general defensive depth and competence though? I think his position on where we are over the last 18 months has been very consistent.

I don't any fan in general has rated our defence.

He still from what I remember defends our worse CB Lovren all because he thought he was a great signing in 2014. That the impression I get. Just admit you were wrong it is not that hard.

I myself thought Lovren would be a good signing but he has been awful. Not all his fault but he is our worst CB.

brevity

Jürgen has a right to be peeved but if the players cannot implement what he wants them to implement then perhaps either different players or a change in setup might be an option.

Pepp1989

ricero wrote:

Our lack of finishing is letting us down more than the defence at the moment i feel

It's more highlighting how poor defensively we are.

Crash Bang Wall

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Gomez plays everyone onside when the rest of the team push out for the first and Klavan gets outmuscled and loses his man for the second yet its all henderson's fault again. Jesus its getting tiresome. He was also part of a midfield that destroyed Leciester in the first half keeping the ball moving, covering, dropping back, spreading the play...but its probably his fault we didnt covert any of our chances too.

For the first goal when the ball broke to okazaki.......The back 4 positioning is ok for me but none of the midfield players are picking up Okazaki. As deepest MF player, and especially when its Central, surely thats Herndersons job.

Instead the MFs just want to break forward. Maybe thats Klopps way, so if thats the case he has to take some of the blame.

Re the high press in general, is it worth it, all the chasing and sprints. We are covering more ground and sprinting more than anyone else......surely fatigue has some sort of influence on poor decision making.

Under Rafa there was pressing but only when it was advantageous to do it. I remember reading somewhere that someone like Alonso made a call and everyone pressed (when the chances of winning the ball back were higher, or when a player was isolated) Maybe too much pressing is done under Klopp??

As stated previously Id like my CM (Hendo) to stay in front of the 2 CBs at all times.....and if he goes forward eg on a break where he is in the best position to break, then he shouts at, say Can, to cover the middle in case the move breaks down......from what I can see, when we break everyone goes forward......thats bloody madness

shamrock55

You'd swear we had trophies coming out our ears every year,I don't get it when people say it's only this or that cup,I mean these are realistically the only cups we will win,do people actually think we have a hope of cl or pl,FFS people get a grip,I'm fcukin disgusted and yet again embarrassed to be out of another cup all we have left now is the fa cup and I'm getting well sick of klopps now too

NukaCola

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AnfieldHQ/status/910245662792577025

We all are, but only one of us can do something about it

shamrock55

Btw the high press run around like headless chickens crap clearly doesn't work,klopps likes it simply because it's the only way he knows how,it's page one of management for dummies

NukaCola

shamrock55 wrote: »

You'd swear we had trophies coming out our ears every year,I don't get it when people say it's only this or that cup,I mean these are realistically the only cups we will win,do people actually think we have a hope of cl or pl,FFS people get a grip,I'm fcukin disgusted and yet again embarrassed to be out of another cup all we have left now is the fa cup and I'm getting well sick of klopps now too

I dont feel that strongly but I agree, a cup is a cup, the experience a cup run to a final for instance is invaluable, plus we exist to win trophys. I get the converse argument, less games, concentrate on League and CL etc.....I just dont agree with it.

Nerdlingr

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

For the first goal when the ball broke to okazaki.......The back 4 positioning is ok for me but none of the midfield players are picking up Okazaki. As deepest MF player, and especially when its Central, surely thats Herndersons job.

Instead the MFs just want to break forward. Maybe thats Klopps way, so if thats the case he has to take some of the blame.

Re the high press in general, is it worth it, all the chasing and sprints. We are covering more ground and sprinting more than anyone else......surely fatigue has some sort of influence on poor decision making.

Under Rafa there was pressing but only when it was advantageous to do it. I remember reading somewhere that someone like Alonso made a call and everyone pressed (when the chances of winning the ball back were higher, or when a player was isolated) Maybe too much pressing is done under Klopp??

As stated previously Id like my CM (Hendo) to stay in front of the 2 CBs at all times.....and if he goes forward eg on a break where he is in the best position to break, then he shouts at, say Can, to cover the middle in case the move breaks down......from what I can see, when we break everyone goes forward......thats bloody madness

I'm the same, would loved a recognised Dm that sits in front of the back four and covers the area around there. Thats why i would liked to have seen someone like Krychowiak come in on loan from PSG during the summer. We'd have an option then of playing a different way.
At the end of it all it all comes down to Klopp and how he sets his team out.
We're playing some amazing stuff going forward, blowing teams off the park in some games, Salah, firmino, coutinho and mane are amazing to watch at times...but...the weaknesses in our defence has been there since before Klopp arrived and they're still there now nearly 2 years later. They've had plenty of time to address the issues on the training ground and the transfer windows but we're still where we were, defensively, 2 years ago.

Just in relation to the first goal...Klopp wanted his back line to push up and play offside for the first goal, "The only thing you can do is to push up – we didn’t"...when everyone pushes up that includes midfield and the rest of the defenders, everyone goes...the fact that gomez drops back and plays morgan onside then means everyone else is playing catch up...the space theyve just pushed up from is where okazaki sits and picks up the ball with no-one around him. Henderson cant legislate for what Gomez is gonna do, he and all the others followed his mangers orders out (rightly or wrongly).

Osmosis Jones

Hasn't Trent spent some time as a DM? :P

Yellow pack crisps

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its only the Carling cup going far it will only kill us later in the season , Even spurs have said there not interested, it should be used for our second string if they win great if they don't they won't play much football and its there own fault,
United only made a big deal about it cause Jose knew he had to win something to clutch at straws that they had a good season,

Liverpool is a global brand! They keep being a global brand because of past success, that will stop and brand will cease being successful and that will greatly impact trading practices. Every dog knows that winning a trophy can be the catilyst to winning more and ingrainnbg a winning confidence. Besides any of that, it's s professional club, they should be trying to win every trophy they enter into or what is the point?

Crash Bang Wall

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I'm the same, would lover a recognised Dm that sits in front of the back four and covers the area around there. Thats why i would liked to have seen someone like Krychowiak come in on loan from PSG during the summer. We'd have an option then of playing a different way.
At the end of it all it all comes down to Klopp and how he sets his team out.
We're playing some amazing stuff going forward, blowing teams off the park in some games, Salah, firmino, coutinho and mane are amazing to watch at times...but...the weaknesses in our defence has been there since before Klopp arrived and they're still there now nearly 2 years later. They've had plenty of time to address the issues on the training ground and the transfer windows but we're still where we were, defensively, 2 years ago.

Just in relation to the first goal...Klopp wanted his back line to push up and play offside for the first goal, "The only thing you can do is to push up – we didn’t"...when everyone pushes up that includes midfield and the rest of the defenders, everyone goes...the fact that gomez drops back and plays morgan onside then means everyone else is playing catch up...the space theyve just pushed up from is where okazaki sits and picks up the ball with no-one around him. Henderson cant legislate for what Gomez is gonna do, he and all the others followed his mangers orders out (rightly or wrongly).

Fair point re the pushing up, Im just wondering if someone at the back made the shout. If they did, then its Gomez fault, if they didnt then, its really a shambles....you cant just run out and hope everyone does the same. An organiser at the back is seriously needed. Im miss it since Carra was playing....you could regularly hear him shouting on the tv

citytillidie

So after last night Liverpool are not in the draw for Round 4 so here are the games for October

Date Team TV
1st Oct Newcastle (a) Sky Sports
14th Oct Man Utd Sky Sports
17th Oct Maribor (SVN) (a) BT Sports
22nd Oct Spurs (a) Sky Sports
28th Oct Huddersfield

Crash Bang Wall

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Hasn't Trent spent some time as a DM? :P

As a MF yes....not sure it was as an out and out DM though

Osmosis Jones

Actually though if we want to play with an out and out DM Milner might be the best option for now, he just spent a year at LB so at least he's got some defensive nuance.

Francie Barrett

SlickRic wrote: »

Henderson is an attacking midfielder.

This nonsense of continuing play him as our defensive midfielder is madness. I honestly don't know what managers are seeing in him that makes them think he can play that role.

His best season by far for us was when he played further up the pitch while Gerrard played the deep lying role.

This exactly, all the fans have known this for years, yet every new manager he plays under tries him in the holding role and it doesn't work.

rgace

The next three games are huge really, all are potential losses even when on form so we really need to improve.

Coutinho looked a bit sharper last night which will make a huge difference and then Mane is back so we could conceivably be back to an irresistible attacking force in a couple of weeks.

5starpool

citytillidie wrote: »

So after last night Liverpool are not in the draw for Round 4 so here are the games and for October

Date Team TV
1st Oct Newcastle (a) Sky Sports
14th Oct Man Utd Sky Sports
17th Oct Maribor (SVN) (a) BT Sports
22nd Oct Spurs (a) Sky Sports
28th Oct Huddersfield

Up to and including the Spurs game, 6 of the previous 7 games will have been away.

dogbert27

I'm not going to be flippant and say it's a competition we can do without but I don't agree with the bashing of Klopp for not taking it seriously.

Under Klopp we got to the final and semi-final in the last two years in this competition so he can't be accused of not taking it seriously.

Also got to the final of the Europa League with Klopp.

Got knocked out of the FA Cup in 2016 when going through an injury crisis. Getting knocked out of the FA Cup last year to Wolves though was poor.

So in 6 cup runs we've been to 2 finals, a semi-final and two fourth round knock outs and a third round knock out.

The first half performance last night should have won us the game. If the players can give that performance in the first 45 mins they need to have alook at themselves for the second 45 mins.

54and56

NukaCola wrote: »

We all are, but only one of us can do something about it

Well it's down to him. He either needs to coach it out of them or buy new players. He's almost 2 years in charge and has had 4 transfer windows with backing from FSG to buy whatever defenders he wanted.

No excuses I'm afraid. He has to carry the can.

Utopia Parkway

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Actually though if we want to play with an out and out DM Milner might be the best option for now, he just spent a year at LB so at least he's got some defensive nuance.

Henderson is a better CM than Milner is. I don't see Milner working out as a DM to be honest. We just don't have one in the squad and there is a good chance Klopp doesn't even want one. He's been at the club almost two years now and I can't even remember us ever being linked to a DM. Keita isn't one either.

brevity

Surely people at the club know that Lovren played his best when he had a DM, possibly two, in front of him.

I'm sure the same could be said for Moreno and the set up at Sevilla.

Can and Henderson aren't DM's and don't appear to be able to read the game that way and this is having a huge effect on the defence.

It seems careless to continue in this manner.

Virgil will be lost without a DM too IMO
As will most CBs

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

Virgil will be lost without a DM too IMO
As will most CBs

You'd hope though that silly mistakes like getting caught in possession or falling to clear a ball or even the ability to win a header would be improved on and would save us a few goals with VVD or another decent CB.

rob316

Although I do think VVD is excellent especially one on one, Southampton play with 2 holding midfielders so the CB's are well protected. Lovren looked like a world beater at Southampton FFS.

Yup.... people make mistakes when not 100% comfortable though, I think we'll always see more than you'd expect in defensive mistakes/apparent switch offs.

mosstin

I thought spending £40 million on AOC was a ridiculous waste of money, particularly when we're so desperately in need of addressing issues elsewhere.
That said, the kicking he's been given today for what was a poor display is desperately unfair. He's at a new side, adapting to new tactics, learning about teammates' strengths and weaknesses and it's just one bloody match. I hope it works out and I really trust Klopp's judgement in our need for him in spite of the fact that I don't think that we need him at all.
He really needs to be given time to settle in.

J Mysterio

Well Keita will be here in the summer. I presume he will be the deep sitting midfielder... Whether or not he is a defensive midfielder, which he doesnt appear to be... More box to box.

I think Klopps general style is to overwhelm teams and blow them away. I think anyone waiting for an actual Kante/ Matic/ Makelele type DM to come in will be dissapointed.

MD1990

I thin AOC will be a good signing long term.

Last night he looked like the English Bebe but it was just one game.

J Mysterio

MD1990 wrote: »

I thin AOC will be a good signing long term.

Last night he looked like the English Bebe but it was just one game.

A lot of bad Arsenal habits will need to be coached out of him and that will take some time. He made a serious amount of errors yesterday.

mosstin

J Mysterio wrote: »

A lot of bad Arsenal habits will need to be coached out of him and that will take some time. He made a serious amount of errors yesterday.

He was awful but the criticism he's received is out of proportion. A little context is needed.

Boom_Bap

Have yiz not seen the AOC highlights video from last night. There is simple running, dribbling and passing that he couldn't do last night. And it wasn't one isolated incident in the game last night. It's a 'highlight' reel from 1 game.

That is not about bad habits from other coaches.

mosstin

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Have yiz not seen the AOC highlights video from last night. There is simple running, dribbling and passing that he couldn't do last night. And it wasn't one isolated incident in the game last night. It's a 'highlight' reel from 1 game.

That is not about bad habits from other coaches.

He was **** but to write him off is ridiculous.