Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

Boom_Bap

mosstin wrote: »

He was **** but to write him off is ridiculous.

I wouldn't be writing him off, but from what I've seen so far, he's not starting 11 material and not the solution to any of our problems.

Osmosis Jones

Fcuk me he joined the club 3 weeks ago today and spent 1 of those 3 weeks away on England duty.

greendom

J Mysterio wrote: »

A lot of bad Arsenal habits will need to be coached out of him and that will take some time. He made a serious amount of errors yesterday.

how were they Arsenal habits exactly ? Ox rarely performed well for Arsenal but he never performed as bad as he did last night

Milkers

I've seen lots of people correctly point out how terrible Ox was last night. I've seen very few "write him off" whatever that means.

NukaCola

I asked the question months ago, what problem does Ox's signing solve?

A post that cited speed, depth and CL experience as the positives and a lot of people thanked the post. I think it was a valid point but I still dont see why we spent 35M on him. Depth is the only reason I can see and it is genuinely infuriating that we were willing to spend 35M on cover in an area that had enough depth but lacked quality and ignore CB an area barren of depth or quality.

Osmosis Jones

The money spent on Ox has absolutely nothing to do with our problems at CB.

mosstin

Milkers wrote: »

I've seen lots of people correctly point out how terrible Ox was last night. I've seen very few "write him off" whatever that means.

Really? I've seen it several times on Twitter, here, on BTL comments on our match report from yesterday. People not wanting AOC is fine - I'm firmly in that camp myself - but give the lad until the end of the season to see what he brings to us, if anything.

mosstin

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

The money spent on Ox has absolutely nothing to do with our problems at CB.

I think that it certainly adds to people's frustration that such a large sum of money was spent on a player who plays in an area of the team that we're well stocked in whilst no funds were channelled into addressing a fundamental flaw in the squad.

billymitchell

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I wouldn't be writing him off, but from what I've seen so far, he's not starting 11 material and not the solution to any of our problems.

The squad needs filling out, he is doing just that. Quite expensive filler, but that's all he is at the moment

~Rebel~

mosstin wrote: »

I think that it certainly adds to people's frustration that such a large sum of money was spent on a player who plays in an area of the team that we're well stocked in whilst no funds were channelled into addressing a fundamental flaw in the squad.

There wasn't an either/or situation though. We weren't buying a CB if it wasn't VVD, period. I disagree with that, but I don't think the signing of Ox-Cham played a part in that decision either way.

billymitchell wrote: »

The squad needs filling out, he is doing just that. Quite expensive filler, but that's all he is at the moment

Yeah, I'm willing to see how he develops with time under Klopp. He transformed the way Wijnaldum played, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to do the same with Ox.

mosstin

~Rebel~ wrote: »

There wasn't an either/or situation though. We weren't buying a CB if it wasn't VVD, period. I disagree with that, but I don't think the signing of Ox-Cham played a part in that decision either way.



Yeah, I'm willing to see how he develops with time under Klopp. He transformed the way Wijnaldum played, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to do the same with Ox.

That isn't what I'm saying. There were funds there to buy a CB for sure, and an outlet - an unfair one - for frustration at not signing any CB is the £40 million signing we don't really need at all.

NukaCola

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

The money spent on Ox has absolutely nothing to do with our problems at CB.

Obviously, but the willingness to strengthen an area that was already fully stocked and not adding anyone to an area lacking depth is extremely annoying and is costing us.

NukaCola

I have zero issue with strengthen the squad with whoever Klopp wanted. I just cannot understand why we didn't strengthen CB when we were actively looking to strengthen the squad. Our third choice CB cost £4M and looks a £4M player. Its ridiculous.

I dont think holding out for the "ideal player" is such a great move either. The ideal player is someone who doesn't fall to pieces when a player runs at them, can win a header or clear a ball at the moment. As for lads who think we'll sort it in Jan, thats all well and good but a lot of things can happen between now and then, our season being over being one possibility.

I like Klopp but he's put himself into a real unnecessary position and I have little sympathy for him tbh. Maybe he has a better plan than hope Matip and Lovren stay fit and we out score the opposition.

eyerer

I for one doubt that VVD will come in January.
I'd love to be wrong

Agent Coulson

I really really wish Klopp and Sakho could have sorted out their differences.


I also really really wish we had kept Lucas.


Both were leaders on and off the pitch and could easily be the club captain.

5starpool

Posted without comment.

daithijjj

MD1990 wrote: »

lol

You have rated & defended Lovren for years.

You'll struggle to find a positive comment about Lovren from me in a very very long time , probably go back 2 years you might find one (or possibly after the header v Dortmund). Even when he was bought i was hoping we had developed in baby steps to proper quality and someone like him would be backup at best.

Not in a million years would i have given him that new contract. Personally, i would have spent the entire summer throwing cash at a keeper/defs/DM's until i got something better than we have. We didnt and most of us can see the results unfolding in 'glorious HD'.

marklazarcovic

He's the ginger Forrest gump

BorneTobyWilde

Other tops sides solve the problem of players switching off very easily, they are out of team. No consequences for our players, he will play them again and instruct them again to keep concentrated, but they fail again.
That first goal had many free Leicester players in box, and many Liverpool players skipping around like Alice in Wonderland .

Iused2likebusts

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I really really wish Klopp and Sakho could have sorted out their differences.


I also really really wish we had kept Lucas.


Both were leaders on and off the pitch and could easily be the club captain.

Lucas would never have played. He wouldn't get anywhere near any other top 6s midfield.

doc_17

Could Sakho really be considered a leader given that his attitude was awful?

We are better off without him. Made too many mistakes.

NukaCola

So Ward wont get a game until the FA cup now i guess.

shamrock55

So then,all the top teams go through to next rd of LGE cup except good old us,and don't say it's cos we played Leicester

ricero

shamrock55 wrote: »

So then,all the top teams go through to next rd of LGE cup except good old us,and don't say it's cos we played Leicester

Poor finishing cost us last night shamrock. Game should of been done and dusted at half time.

Anyway we go again. Huge game now saturday. Need a win and to regain the swagger

shamrock55

ricero wrote: »

Poor finishing cost us last night shamrock. Game should of been done and dusted at half time.

Anyway we go again. Huge game now saturday. Need a win and to regain the swagger

It's down to more then poor finishing,we don't look,act,or play like a team,if we don't win on sat and tue I don't see things ending well this season

grohlisagod

NukaCola wrote: »

So Ward wont get a game until the FA cup now i guess.

Club have really dicked that lad around. Was going well at Aberdeen and brought him back early to sit on the bench.

Does great at Huddersfield and he's not allowed join them so he can play 3 games this season.

Would be the Welsh number one by now if he left.

noodler

doc_17 wrote: »

Could Sakho really be considered a leader given that his attitude was awful?

We are better off without him. Made too many mistakes.

Hmmm.

JonnyM

grohlisagod wrote: »

Club have really dicked that lad around. Was going well at Aberdeen and brought him back early to sit on the bench.

Does great at Huddersfield and he's not allowed join them so he can play 3 games this season.

Would be the Welsh number one by now if he left.

Maybe he thinks he can be no. 1 at Liverpool??

It's not really that unbelievable given that the 2 keepers ahead of him aren't great. I think he should be given a chance in the prem.

What's the worst that could happen???

cj maxx

JonnyM wrote: »

Maybe he thinks he can be no. 1 at Liverpool??

It's not really that unbelievable given that the 2 keepers ahead of him aren't great. I think he should be given a chance in the prem.

What's the worst that could happen???

Famous last words

machiavellianme

cjmc wrote: »

Famous last words

We've already been spanked 5-0 this season so letting another keeper have a go couldn't be too much worse. Karius is the poorest keeper I've ever seen, yet he's playing in the Champions league so why not give Ward a shout?

dogbert27

shamrock55 wrote: »

So then,all the top teams go through to next rd of LGE cup except good old us,and don't say it's cos we played Leicester

As I posted yesterday a bit of perspective is needed and yes we did play a premiership team.

United played Burton, Chelsea played Notts Forest and Arsenal played Doncaster.

We got knocked out in the third round after a semi final and final appearance in the last two seasons. It happens. We've been knocked out in third rounds before, remember Northampton? or Grimsby?

As people have said, if the strikers took their chances in the first half the game was finished.

redzerdrog

machiavellianme wrote: »

We've already been spanked 5-0 this season so letting another keeper have a go couldn't be too much worse. Karius is the poorest keeper I've ever seen, yet he's playing in the Champions league so why not give Ward a shout?

Brad Jones?

Mr.H

machiavellianme wrote:

We've already been spanked 5-0 this season so letting another keeper have a go couldn't be too much worse. Karius is the poorest keeper I've ever seen, yet he's playing in the Champions league so why not give Ward a shout?

Poorest keeper you've ever seen?????

Seriously why do people make such ridiculous statements.

He can be not good enough without being "the poorest keeper you've ever seen". There's a huge middle ground

Gaillimh1976

Mr.H wrote: »

Poorest keeper you've ever seen?????

Probably spelling it wrong but Peggy Arphexad

(and I've seen Steve Staunton play in goals !!!)

MD1990

Hopefully we hear some news about a new Firmino contract soon especially if it is true he has a 80m release clause according to Football leaks.

Mr.H

In a system like ours, keepers will always look poor. They get far more exposed because the defence gets little protection.

Arsenal had lehmann schezney and Fabianski all look really poor when they played their all out attack stuff.

Barca made Valdez look poor and their current two don't look great at times. That is because of the way they play.

I'm not saying our lads are great but they aren't the worst.

Ironically when we lost 5-0 I thought out keeper was our best player pulling off some great saves. He was let down by his defense who where let down by the team not helping at key moments.

We had Pepe Reina who was bone of the best keepers on the planet under Rafa. That was because he got loads of protection. Then when Rafa was replaced he got less protection and started making howlers.

daheff

Before anybody slates me on this being the mirror, get over that part for a minute and look at the stats between rogers and klopps first 73 league games.


I know rogers last 73 games arent probably quite as good, and would be interesting to see those vs Klopps first 73.

Wins
Klopp 37 Rogers 41

Goals scored
Klopp 142 Rogers 167

Points
Klopp 132 Rogers 141



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/jurgen-klopps-liverpool-record-worse-11205510

redzerdrog

daheff wrote: »

Before anybody slates me on this being the mirror, get over that part for a minute and look at the stats between rogers and klopps first 73 league games.


I know rogers last 73 games arent probably quite as good, and would be interesting to see those vs Klopps first 73.

Wins
Klopp 37 Rogers 41

Goals scored
Klopp 142 Rogers 167

Points
Klopp 132 Rogers 141



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/jurgen-klopps-liverpool-record-worse-11205510

Absolutely pointless exercise for so many reasons

daheff

redzerdrog wrote: »

Absolutely pointless exercise for so many reasons

why

redzerdrog

havent the time to get into it but you are comparing different squads, one of which had a world class players which was inherited. May aswell compre Klopps first 73 games but rafa, kenny or shankly they have as much relevence.

By the way Rodgers wasnt sacked for his performance in those first 73 games

daheff

redzerdrog wrote: »

havent the time to get into it but you are comparing different squads, one of which had a world class players which was inherited. May aswell compre Klopps first 73 games but rafa, kenny or shankly they have as much relevence.

By the way Rodgers wasnt sacked for his performance in those first 73 games

You have to have some kind of benchmark. You will always be comparing different squads/opponents/times/money etc.

Rogers had a world class player in Suarez (and Gerard), Klopp has Coutinho (and Mane when hes not injured).

Rogers wasn't sacked on his first 73 games, but neither was Klopp.

My point (and the statistics) is that Klopp is not doing any better than Rogers did to start. How he goes from here is key....but he needs to do better than he is or he might be on the way out.

jebidiah

daheff wrote: »

Before anybody slates me on this being the mirror, get over that part for a minute and look at the stats between rogers and klopps first 73 league games.


I know rogers last 73 games arent probably quite as good, and would be interesting to see those vs Klopps first 73.

Wins
Klopp 37 Rogers 41

Goals scored
Klopp 142 Rogers 167

Points
Klopp 132 Rogers 141



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/jurgen-klopps-liverpool-record-worse-11205510

Saw this being bandied about last week as well. Proof that stats can be used to tell any story you want.

Whats the one thing we are all complaining about the most with Klopp? The defence has gone backwards.

Look at the final chart on that article. Goals Against has decreased under Klopp.

The whole angle of the article is off.

Agent Coulson

daheff wrote: »

You have to have some kind of benchmark. You will always be comparing different squads/opponents/times/money etc.

Rogers had a world class player in Suarez (and Gerard), Klopp has Coutinho (and Sane when hes not injured).

Rogers wasn't sacked on his first 73 games, but neither was Klopp.

My point (and the statistics) is that Klopp is not doing any better than Rogers did to start. How he goes from here is key....but he needs to do better than he is or he might be on the way out.

Doesn't he play for City?

That would be some achievement by Klopp if he could play him in a Liverpool team.

redzerdrog

daheff wrote: »

You have to have some kind of benchmark. You will always be comparing different squads/opponents/times/money etc.

Rogers had a world class player in Suarez (and Gerard), Klopp has Coutinho (and Sane when hes not injured).

Rogers wasn't sacked on his first 73 games, but neither was Klopp.

My point (and the statistics) is that Klopp is not doing any better than Rogers did to start. How he goes from here is key....but he needs to do better than he is or he might be on the way out.

If you want to benchmark it then benchmark against Rodgers last 73 games in charge.

Knex*

If Rodgers didn't have that fake, offputting vibe about him (and I say that as a fan of his), he'd probably still be our manager tbh.

If had the charisma and command of Klopp and was able to run the club with similar authority, which is by no means a small feat, he could have been great. He definitely has the tactical nous along with many other good points.

Would have been interesting to see how he fared if given full autonomy over transfers etc, but again, if you want to be a top level manager, that's something you probably have to be able to demand for yourself and achieve. Jumping from Swansea to Liverpool was always going to be a big ask too. If he had actually gone to Celtic first, achieved a few years success, and then onto Liverpool, he may have been better prepared and had more clout in the boardroom/transfer stakes.

Anyway, ultimately I think he did alright but by the end of his tenure I don't think anyone could argue too much against his dismissal. Not when Klopp was the man coming in.

As for Klopp himself, if for some mental reason he was fired, who on Earth could come in and actually do a better job, or suit the club in such a way that he does?

brevity

I don't think Rodgers should have been hired at all imo. Liverpool should have gone for an experienced manager.

corwill

brevity wrote: »

I don't think Rodgers should have been hired at all imo. Liverpool should have gone for an experienced manager.

Could have been worse. Lambert and Martinez were the other names being mentioned at the time. Just have a think about those scenarios. Then maybe have a quick vom, if needs be.

dogbert27

daheff wrote: »

You have to have some kind of benchmark. You will always be comparing different squads/opponents/times/money etc.

Rogers had a world class player in Suarez (and Gerard), Klopp has Coutinho (and Sane when hes not injured).

Rogers wasn't sacked on his first 73 games, but neither was Klopp.

My point (and the statistics) is that Klopp is not doing any better than Rogers did to start. How he goes from here is key....but he needs to do better than he is or he might be on the way out.

Are those 73 games in all competitions?

PhuckHugh

I think we need to talk about Henderson? I've never really rated him and wanted him sold that time Rodgers was going to...But he was great in the title challenge season under Rodgers to be fair to him. He does get around the pitch and at times is capable of great moments but his positioning is very poor and his temperament is way off ... He is always trying to force passes instead of controlling the game. It's a typical British attitude in many ways, but he has to know when to slow it down, when to play the easy pass etc. etc- He has put the team under constant pressure this season by trying to play stupid passes in dangerous areas and just not being aware of what's around him. He's honest and hardworking and all of that but he's not up to what is being asked of him imo.

brevity

corwill wrote: »

Could have been worse. Lambert and Martinez were the other names being mentioned at the time. Just have a think about those scenarios. Then maybe have a quick vom, if needs be.

This club perplexes me so.