Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

Knex*

brevity wrote: »

I don't think Rodgers should have been hired at all imo. Liverpool should have gone for an experienced manager.

corwill wrote: »

Could have been worse. Lambert and Martinez were the other names being mentioned at the time. Just have a think about those scenarios. Then maybe have a quick vom, if needs be.

I was very disappointed in the appointment at the time, yeah. Felt he had to cut his trade at a higher level before getting a job like Liverpool. Similar to how Benitez did.

But as corwill said, the candidates touted were far from inspiring. It was actually a pretty depressing time.

brevity

PhuckHugh wrote: »

I think we need to talk about Henderson? I've never really rated him and wanted him sold that time Rodgers was going to...But he was great in the title challenge season under Rodgers to be fair to him. He does get around the pitch and at times is capable of great moments but his positioning is very poor and his temperament is way off ... He is always trying to force passes instead of controlling the game. It's a typical British attitude in many ways, but he has to know when to slow it down, when to play the easy pass etc. etc- He has put the team under constant pressure this season by trying to play stupid passes in dangerous areas and just not being aware of what's around him. He's honest and hardworking and all of that but he's not up to what is being asked of him imo.

He is a good player and a good person to have around the squad but he's being played in the wrong position imo.

Went he doesn't think he is capable of some clever play but he doesn't have the skillset to play where Klopp has him.

dogbert27

dogbert27 wrote: »

Are those 73 games in all competitions?

Sorry just saw from the points figures that's it's league games only.

So that's two seasons nearly.

Rodgers' first two seasons:

League: 07th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup 04th Round, Europa Cup last 32.
League: 02nd, FA Cup 05th Round, League Cup 04th Round, No European football.

Klopp's first two seasons:

League: 08th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup Finalists, Europa League Finalists.
League: 04th, FA Cup 03rd Round, League Cup Semi-Finalists, No European Football.

You can argue that Klopp edges it with achieving CL qualification and reaching two cup finals.

Klopp's style of play has been consistent over the time he's been here.

Rodgers' ultimate problem was that he didn't know what to do in terms of a system after he lost Suarez to Barcelona and Sturridge to injury.

daheff

dogbert27 wrote: »

Are those 73 games in all competitions?

League only

redzerdrog wrote: »

If you want to benchmark it then benchmark against Rodgers last 73 games in charge.

Why? Better to benchmark against the first 73 as its more comparable (dealing with somebody elses players, only having gotten some of your own in etc).

but I understand your point. Rogers last 73 would have a worse record (hence he got fired).....but surely Klopps last 73 when he gets fired will be bad too?

jebidiah wrote: »

Whats the one thing we are all complaining about the most with Klopp? The defence has gone backwards.

Look at the final chart on that article. Goals Against has decreased under Klopp.
.

Thats a very fair point (and thats all competitions). I read somewhere else this morning that Klopps leaguegoals conceded is 5 worse than Rogers at this stage (cant feckin find the article though).

But I think it illustrates the point that there has been very little improvement in defence


I'm not looking for Klopp to be sacked (mainly cos I cant see any better replacements at this time)- but i'm fed up hearing that hes the saviour and things will be remarkably better than under Rogers. They arent any better (or much worse)...things are still the same. We keep losing/dropping points to the lesser teams (who sit back and defend in numbers/catch us on the break) and can beat most of the top 6 teams.

Umaro

Does anyone else find the Klopp v Rodgers comparisons really tiresome?

I thought it was just rival fans getting their digs in by parading those stats, but now I see people in here actually debating it - its unnecessary, you can discuss or criticize Klopp on his own merits, you don't need to use Rodgers as a benchmark when you need to complain about how our defence is still shockingly poor.

NukaCola

Rodgers done a very good job at Anfield. He gets very little credit, dismissed by a lot but got us closer than any manager to a premier league title if we are being honest. He maximised what he had. Sure he had some excellent players but he also got so much more from others. The comparison above of the first 70 odd games is largely irrelevant but should show how good a job BR did. I dont think its a record Klopp should be ashamed of or anything.

The problem is the defence and the fact we let basically 2 good CB's go and brought in one LB in the summer to fix it is disgraceful.

citytillidie

dogbert27 wrote: »

Sorry just saw from the points figures that's it's league games only.

So that's two seasons nearly.

Rodgers' first two seasons:

League: 07th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup 04th Round, Europa Cup last 32.
League: 02nd, FA Cup 05th Round, League Cup 04th Round, No European football.

Klopp's first two seasons:

League: 08th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup Finalists, Europa League Finalists.
League: 04th, FA Cup 03rd Round, League Cup Semi-Finalists, No European Football.

You can argue that Klopp edges it with achieving CL qualification and reaching two cup finals.

Klopp's style of play has been consistent over the time he's been here.

Rodgers' ultimate problem was that he didn't know what to do in terms of a system after he lost Suarez to Barcelona and Sturridge to injury.

Klopp has had one full season
League 4th, FA Cup 4th Round, League Cup - Semi Final and No European football

MD1990

NukaCola wrote: »

Rodgers done a very good job at Anfield. He gets very little credit, dismissed by a lot but got us closer than any manager to a premier league title if we are being honest. He maximised what he had. Sure he had some excellent players but he also got so much more from others. The comparison above of the first 70 odd games is largely irrelevant but should show how good a job BR did. I dont think its a record Klopp should be ashamed of or anything.

The problem is the defence and the fact we let basically 2 good CB's go and brought in one LB in the summer to fix it is disgraceful.

Rodgers is a very good coach. I agree with what you have said.

His biggest downfall is in the transfer market.

Some of his signings(not TC) like Borini,Lovren,Lambert & Benteke were awful.

5starpool

After 73 league games for Rodgers we were just about to play Chelsea in THAT game, and Rodgers was feted as being the manager about to bring the glory back to Anfield.

Klopp being as close as he is isn't doing bad now is he? If things go tits up over the course of the season and we get 60 points or whatever and out of all cups early, he'll come under pressure, and that's understandable.

People comparing him to Rodgers most successful period is pointless.

dogbert27

citytillidie wrote: »

dogbert27 wrote: »

Sorry just saw from the points figures that's it's league games only.

So that's two seasons nearly.

Rodgers' first two seasons:

League: 07th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup 04th Round, Europa Cup last 32.
League: 02nd, FA Cup 05th Round, League Cup 04th Round, No European football.

Klopp's first two seasons:

League: 08th, FA Cup 04th Round, League Cup Finalists, Europa League Finalists.
League: 04th, FA Cup 03rd Round, League Cup Semi-Finalists, No European Football.

You can argue that Klopp edges it with achieving CL qualification and reaching two cup finals.

Klopp's style of play has been consistent over the time he's been here.

Rodgers' ultimate problem was that he didn't know what to do in terms of a system after he lost Suarez to Barcelona and Sturridge to injury.

Klopp has had one full season
League 4th, FA Cup 4th Round, League Cup - Semi Final and No European football

I did say "that's nearly 2 seasons"

TitianGerm

MD1990 wrote: »

Rodgers is a very good coach. I agree with what you have said.

His biggest downfall is in the transfer market.

Some of his signings(not TC) like Borini,Lovren,Lambert & Benteke were awful.

He also failed to get the best from players. Lalana, Firmino and Allan were like different players after Klopp joined.

Dunno how true this is but worrying enough from a CB viewpoint, with Coutinho back for a midfield spot we can manage without Can you'd imagine........

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/09/jurgen-klopp-reveals-3-injury-doubts-leicester-city-clash/?utm_source=webpush&utm_medium=Campaign&utm_campaign=webpush

"Jurgen Klopp has revealed that Joel Matip, Dejan Lovren and Emre Can could all miss Saturday’s Premier League clash away to Leicester City"

Alonso77

Augeo wrote: »

Dunno how true this is but worrying enough from a CB viewpoint, with Coutinho back for a midfield spot we can manage without Can you'd imagine........

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/09/jurgen-klopp-reveals-3-injury-doubts-leicester-city-clash/?utm_source=webpush&utm_medium=Campaign&utm_campaign=webpush

"Jurgen Klopp has revealed that Joel Matip, Dejan Lovren and Emre Can could all miss Saturday’s Premier League clash away to Leicester City"

and this inevitable type of situation is why the decision not to sign any cb cover in the summer is so disappointing and mind boggling.

Grayditch

They said it would never happen...


Loads of people said it might happen.

brevity

https://twitter.com/AnfieldRd96/status/910504212592775172

Utopia Parkway

brevity wrote: »

I don't think Rodgers should have been hired at all imo. Liverpool should have gone for an experienced manager.

martyos121

brevity wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AnfieldRd96/status/910504212592775172

Playing Can up top is not going to solve our finishing problem.

Osmosis Jones

If I see that comparison between Rodgers and Klopp one more time I might scream.

73 games is just less than 2 Premier League seasons. After 73 games Rodgers had us in league winning form, closer to the title than we had been in a long time. How in the world is it considered bad that Klopp is nearly matching that form? It's fcuking crazy to suggest that Rodgers was sacked based on his first 73 games, if Klopp's next 73 pan out similar to Rodgers' and we find ourselves stranded on our way to nowhere again then, maybe then, it'll be something to best him with.

Buford T. Justice XIX

martyos121 wrote: »

Playing Can up top is not going to solve our finishing problem.

At least he got the keeper right, every time I look at a team sheet I go FFS.

brevity

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Pfft..

BorneTobyWilde

Players are they problem. Should not be giving opposition a fcking inch, let alone 15 ft in our box.
Even playing for fun I give no one a fcking inch. It's about winning, and being at it for 90 mins.

5starpool

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Players are they problem. Should not be giving opposition a fcking inch, let alone 15 ft in our box.
Even playing for fun I give no one a fcking inch. It's about winning, and being at it for 90 mins.

Are you available to play on Saturday?

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Players are they problem. Should not be giving opposition a fcking inch, let alone 15 ft in our box. ..................

We do defend zonally though, from set pieces anyway :pac: ?

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

Dunno how true this is but worrying enough from a CB viewpoint, with Coutinho back for a midfield spot we can manage without Can you'd imagine........

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/09/jurgen-klopp-reveals-3-injury-doubts-leicester-city-clash/?utm_source=webpush&utm_medium=Campaign&utm_campaign=webpush

"Jurgen Klopp has revealed that Joel Matip, Dejan Lovren and Emre Can could all miss Saturday’s Premier League clash away to Leicester City"

It was only a matter of time anyway. Gomez and Klavan at CB........great.

LuckyLloyd

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Honestly i strongly believe our main goal has to be top 4 again,  We have to become a regular in the champions league again its a must to becoming a club taking seriously again, Id rather scrap 4th and win nothing than win 2 domestic cups and come 5th,
Its the only way to attract top players from abroad, people don't like it to hear it but our squad isn't strong enough to compete in everything, so we need to make priorities i think the change at half time showed that,
We have to make our self's top four regulars , like Arsenal but then kick on, We need to build this club up again ,I agree a cup win is fantastic but u can't put the cart before the horse , its way more important to become a regular in the champions league it give you such a better base to build on, then you can kick on and win things,

These types of statements are always stupid, because they aren't direct choices. Winning the Domestic Cups wouldn't automatically guarantee 5th or worse; just as finishing 4th or better wouldn't automatically scupper our cup chances. There is no Sophie's choice here.

The bottom line is that winning games multiple times a week is the ultimate objective. This modern day fan obsession about punting one competition for another ignores the fact that the big European teams compete on all fronts throughout the year. Real will be gunning for the treble. Chelsea and Utd will be expecting to be in the mix across multiple fronts ultimately.

The squad needs to be improved to where we can achieve that. It's the aim, and until we get there people will rightly ask questions.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

............ Gomez and Klavan at CB........great.

Might be ok
Away to Leicester with Mane still suspended, but Coutinho back......... we might go 4 4 2 and get whoever plays #6 (Hendo quite likely as Can is a doubt too) simply feed Coutinho or Salah and not go too forward. Hendo was grand to good on Tues night when Coutinho was on the pitch.

Even if we go the usual 4 3 3, Salah could perhaps be more a 4th midfielder than the 3rd forward.

Presumably Robertson will start too.

I've a good feeling about this game tbh

Osmosis Jones

Could possibly be Ox's CM chance with Coutinho and Salah on the wings if Can is out.

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Could possibly be Ox's CM chance with Coutinho and Salah on the wings if Can is out.

Oh

Augeo wrote: »

................

I've a good feeling about this game tbh

To be fair Hendo, Wij & Ox mightn't be bad but I think Coutinho at 10 ish is preferable to the wide forward position.

Osmosis Jones

I actually think Ox playing RCM would be a great help to Trent too,

brevity

https://twitter.com/_pauljoyce/status/910835551045083137

Lovren, Matip and Can all have knocks

Hopefully nothing too serious.

Indeed, I reckon if Ox plays we might go 4 4 2 with salah and Firmino as the 2.

https://youtu.be/JTskHn5DIZQ

The press con. Knocks, Ox etc all discussed.

J Mysterio

This was always going to happen. FFS.

wonderfullife

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

if Klopp's next 73 pan out similar to Rodgers' and we find ourselves stranded on our way to nowhere again then, maybe then, it'll be something to best him with.

What makes what you believe Liverpool are not "on the way to nowhere again" and also where do you think the club has been?

If you cast your mind back to the mid-80's when the club were consistently *somewhere* i.e. in their pomp, people often think of the sublime passing of Barnes, McMahon, Dalglish, Whelan etc but the foundation behind them was pure granite! Not only could the likes of Hansen, Nicol, Ablett, Stan etc pass the football out from defence but they were mean spirited animals who took it personally if you got the better of them jumping for a ball.

That mentality has slowly faded out of football in general but you still see it in nearly every Antonio Conte side so it's clearly a mentality a coach can instill in players - or at the least sign the right players who fit that mentality.

Anyone saying "players are the problem" are technically right, obviously, because it's the players who take to the field. But it's an easy excuse to make because ultimately the mentality of the team and the culture within the club is 100% the responsibility of the manager.

Alan Hansen would have run through a brick wall for Stevie Nicol. Do you think Matip would do the same for Dejan Lovren? I see a lot of shrugs of shoulders and finger pointing at the back.

Stylistically and culturally, Klopp is just a younger, German version of Wenger. He inherited a granite mentality at Dortmund and it showed when they only conceded 18 goals in their first title winning season. But as Klopp's influence grew their defence got progressively worse and that's not a coincidence IMO.

It was the same with Wenger at Arsenal, people like to say he inherited a rock-defence (which is true) but what he REALLY inherited was a granite-mentality. The likes of Tony Adams, Steve Bould, Martin Keown weren't just solid defenders they were mean spirited winners. When they retired Wenger struggled to replace their mentality.

Sticking with Klopp will see Wenger-esque stuff in the coming years - amazing attacking football, consistent top 5 finishes, good runs when the title is long gone, the odd Champions League semi or final appearance, the odd FA Cup thrown in etc.

Osmosis Jones

It's not as if we were 80s Liverpool right up until Klopp came along, those days are long gone.

What makes me think we're not going nowhere is the fact that since Klopp has joined there's been a steady progression at the club, currently culminating with us being back in the Champions League. A run of 5 games doesn't undo that.

Talisman

Knex. wrote: »

But as corwill said, the candidates touted were far from inspiring. It was actually a pretty depressing time.

FSG approached Klopp in 2012 but he was happy at Dortmund at the time. They also tried to get Frank De Boer as manager with Louis Van Gaal as Director of Football. Fabio Capello also claimed to have been approached for the job at the time.

Roberto Martinez, Andre Villas-Boas and Brendan Rodgers became the job candidates afterwards.

If FSG had pushed ahead with their intention to appoint LVG as Director of Football, Rodgers would not have accepted the job.

Agent Coulson

Klopp started his playing career as a striker and gradually moved back to be a defender that's how I see him as a manager as well starting to get the attacking part right before going back to sort out the defence :pac:

Talisman

wonderfullife wrote: »

Stylistically and culturally, Klopp is just a younger, German version of Wenger. He inherited a granite mentality at Dortmund and it showed when they only conceded 18 goals in their first title winning season. But as Klopp's influence grew their defence got progressively worse and that's not a coincidence IMO.

You're talking through your arse. Dortmund were on the brink of relegation in 2007 and finished 13th in the league in 2008. Klopp joined the club that summer and his team won their first league title in 2011 - it took him 3 seasons to build the team.

corwill

Talisman wrote: »

FSG approached Klopp in 2012 but he was happy at Dortmund at the time. They also tried to get Frank De Boer as manager with Louis Van Gaal as Director of Football. Fabio Capello also claimed to have been approached for the job at the time.

Roberto Martinez, Andre Villas-Boas and Brendan Rodgers became the job candidates afterwards.

If FSG had pushed ahead with their intention to appoint LVG as Director of Football, Rodgers would not have accepted the job.

Wasn't LvG's stance that he wanted to be manager, not DoF?

J Mysterio

Wait.. is Wonderfullife a Liverpool fan?!

brevity

wonderfullife wrote: »

What makes what you believe Liverpool are not "on the way to nowhere again" and also where do you think the club has been?

If you cast your mind back to the mid-80's when the club were consistently *somewhere* i.e. in their pomp, people often think of the sublime passing of Barnes, McMahon, Dalglish, Whelan etc but the foundation behind them was pure granite! Not only could the likes of Hansen, Nicol, Ablett, Stan etc pass the football out from defence but they were mean spirited animals who took it personally if you got the better of them jumping for a ball.

That mentality has slowly faded out of football in general but you still see it in nearly every Antonio Conte side so it's clearly a mentality a coach can instill in players - or at the least sign the right players who fit that mentality.

Anyone saying "players are the problem" are technically right, obviously, because it's the players who take to the field. But it's an easy excuse to make because ultimately the mentality of the team and the culture within the club is 100% the responsibility of the manager.

Alan Hansen would have run through a brick wall for Stevie Nicol. Do you think Matip would do the same for Dejan Lovren? I see a lot of shrugs of shoulders and finger pointing at the back.

Stylistically and culturally, Klopp is just a younger, German version of Wenger. He inherited a granite mentality at Dortmund and it showed when they only conceded 18 goals in their first title winning season. But as Klopp's influence grew their defence got progressively worse and that's not a coincidence IMO.

It was the same with Wenger at Arsenal, people like to say he inherited a rock-defence (which is true) but what he REALLY inherited was a granite-mentality. The likes of Tony Adams, Steve Bould, Martin Keown weren't just solid defenders they were mean spirited winners. When they retired Wenger struggled to replace their mentality.

Sticking with Klopp will see Wenger-esque stuff in the coming years - amazing attacking football, consistent top 5 finishes, good runs when the title is long gone, the odd Champions League semi or final appearance, the odd FA Cup thrown in etc.

Some good points but this:

He inherited a granite mentality at Dortmund and it showed when they only conceded 18 goals in their first title winning season. But as Klopp's influence grew their defence got progressively worse and that's not a coincidence IMO.

I feel is incorrect.

~Rebel~

brevity wrote: »

Some good points but this:

He inherited a granite mentality at Dortmund and it showed when they only conceded 18 goals in their first title winning season. But as Klopp's influence grew their defence got progressively worse and that's not a coincidence IMO.

I feel is incorrect.

Yeah, the season before Klopp arrived, they conceded 62 league goals. That "granite mentality" when they won the league was from Klopp.

They knocked that down to 37 in his first season, 42 in his second, and 22 in his third - when the won the league for the first time.
It's pretty clear that in everything Klopp does, there's an eye-and-a-half towards the long term. Everything is a slow steady movement towards a goal. We've seen that of course at Liverpool too, wanting the perfect option or no-one at all. It's massively frustrating, but it's his way I suppose.

But right now, the only defenders I would actually want to keep are Matip, Gomez, Clyne, and Robertson (not counting TAA, as he's only a temp defender - his future lies elsewhere). The rest could leave in the morning and I wouldn't care. We need more guys brought in than his one perfect target, we need a fairly decent overhaul.

~Rebel~

JonnyM wrote: »

Maybe he thinks he can be no. 1 at Liverpool??

It's not really that unbelievable given that the 2 keepers ahead of him aren't great. I think he should be given a chance in the prem.

What's the worst that could happen???

I'm sure he does, given the low level of competition there right now... though he specifically stated that he'd have rathered stay at Huddersfield and actually get to play in the premier league. Would have been the best thing for everyone. Give him a year in the prem, but largely out of the spotlight, and if he does well, bring him back to be number 1. Instead, he's gonna mostly just be treading water for a year. Just seems like a waste of everyones time.

ElTel

Talisman wrote: »

You're talking through your arse. Dortmund were on the brink of relegation in 2007 and finished 13th in the league in 2008. Klopp joined the club that summer and his team won their first league title in 2011 - it took him 3 seasons to build the team.

I think the poster's general point about toughness/mentality and playing for your teammates should not be dismissed.

http://sillyseason.com/football/revealed-these-are-the-two-dirtiest-teams-in-the-entire-premier-league-106570/

We're too nice imo. The team does not show "useful aggression" or "greed". (Klopp used these terms in the presser.)

O.K I know we commit a lot of players to attack and refs are encouraged to play advantage but if one of our mids is not going to sit (presumably going against Klopp's orders) then we have to risk more professional fouls when games are still in the balance.

J Mysterio

Whats the story with this feckin thread? Half the time it just doesnt load properly. Haven't noticed the same with other threads. Been like this a few weeks.

5starpool

J Mysterio wrote: »

Whats the story with this feckin thread? Half the time it just doesnt load properly. Haven't noticed the same with other threads. Been like this a few weeks.

Been fine for me. Well except for the pervasive negativity and complaining. That's not fine.

5starpool

Can passed fit after training, but Lovren and Matip missed training again according to James Pearce. At least we aren't faced with the prospect of a repeat Chamberlain performance then (I can complain too).

Agent Coulson

You would think were in Palace's place the way people are going on over the last few days.

mosstin

5starpool wrote: »

Can passed fit after training, but Lovren and Matip missed training again according to James Pearce. At least we aren't faced with the prospect of a repeat Chamberlain performance then (I can complain too).

One bit of bad news then - Matip missing out again - and two bits of good news - Can fit and Lovren likely to miss out.