Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

shamrock55

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair, I can't see us finishing outside of the Top6.
12 points after 7 games, 1.71ppg.

I reckon we'll improve on that over the season so I can't see us having less than 70 points in the league tbh.

That PPG average will be down a bit after our next 2 games(losses)

Knex*

shamrock55 wrote: »

That PPG average will be down a bit after our next 2 games(losses)

That's the spirit.

Grayditch

We'll lose to United. It is what it is.

johnpatrick81

This will honestly be United's first stern test. Stoke put it up to them, and they were lucky enough to get a draw. I can't wait. Hopefully Mourinho is feeling as cocky as their fans right now, and leaves his bus at home. Cos if they come and play, I think we'll 'ave em!

SteM

The phrases 'PPG' and 'points per game' must be used more in the Liverpool threads than all other threads combined on this forum. I don't know another set of fans that discuss this figure so much.

SteM

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

This will honestly be United's first stern test. Stoke put it up to them, and they were lucky enough to get a draw. I can't wait. Hopefully Mourinho is feeling as cocky as their fans right now, and leaves his bus at home. Cos if they come and play, I think we'll 'ave em!

Unfortunately you're coming up against a manager that knows how build teams that can defend.

JB81

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Lovren gives up too when he sees that matip is gonna make a challenge,just stops

This infuriated me the most.

If he kept going he would easily have got the ball as it trickled over the line !!!

But still, forwards are at fault for us not winning yesterday, not the defense..

Moist Bread

SteM wrote: »

The phrases 'PPG' and 'points per game' must be used more in the Liverpool threads than all other threads combined on this forum. I don't know another set of fans that discuss this figure so much.

It's all we have.

2ppg at the end of the season and I will be over the moon. It's the true measure of success.

Boom_Bap

Moist Bread wrote: »

It's all we have.

2ppg at the end of the season and I will be over the moon. It's the true measure of success.

naw, chances created per game is the true barometer.

Morzadec

Disclaimer before this critical post: I like Klopp and I'm confident he's the right man to lead us forward.

I said at the end of last season that Klopp's biggest challenge was to solve how to break down teams that park a bus. Our form against the top 6 was so so good (title-winning good easily), that you would be tempted to think that finding a way to much more consistently break down smaller teams might be enough to win us the league. And I also said that he had a whole summer to think of a way do it (whether that be in the market, on the training field or brainstorming tactical solutions with his team).

What we've seen the last month is not a new issue. We encountered it frequently last season. Some clever manager (not sure who, but actually possibly Mourinho funnily enough :rolleyes:) found out about a third of the way through the season that to nullify our (at the time) lethal attack you need to squeeze really really tight and narrow to block of all the quick intelligent short passes between our flair players, even at the expense of giving what seems a ridiculous amount of space out wide.

It worked, and other managers copied it to frequent success. What has happened this season against mid-table / relagation contender teams so far? Largely the same thing.

Why did it work last season?

Largely because you had the two least dangerous players who regularly venture into the opposition half (Milner and Clyne) given the most amount of space and time. Milner, a converted midfielder playing off the wrong side so not being able to naturally exploit the width given, and Clyne, a consistent and solid performer but not an Alves by any means when it comes to being a goal threat. Add to this the fact we don't have a natural 9 who has the movement and physique to make something of the many hit and hope crosses that inevitably come in in these matches and it was no coincidence we dropped a huge amount of points despite "dominating" these matches.

That is why I said we needed to sign a top quality left back (as we didn't have one at all), and an attack minded right back to compete / cover / offer something different to Clyne.

What did we get? A re-introduction of a player not deemed good enough last season and a decent young cheap player from a relegated side at left-back, and nothing at right back. The fullback positions were largely ignored.

Compare our fullbacks to the other top 6 sides and we are way way behind, on a position that is becoming more and more important in the modern game.

As a different option at 9 / more traditional striker we got a very promising young player who looks like he could become a very good player. Less of an issue with this - it's not our preferred way of playing and Solanke looks really promising. Do have a slight issue with how under-utilised he's been so far however. This point is up for debate though when you see how well Morata and Lukaku have bedded in and the goals they are bringing.

So not really too surprising what has been happening. It's simply a repeat of last year.

Have we been unlucky the last month? Of course, to an extent. Particularly the Moscow game, we had key decisions go against us, and it's a valid point that Klopp would expect his players to convert chances better than they did. However, I don't think we did enough across, let's say, Palace, Burnley and Newcastle to say that 5 points total is a total injustice to us and put it just down to luck. We're leaving way too much to the known swings that can happen in football.

We keep playing the same way against these teams, even though we must know how they're going to set up against us. Substitutions are coming way way too late. Solanke is looking good for the 10 minutes he gets, and you feel that if he got 30 he'd get a goal.

So, long story short, I think Klopp has so far shown that he's failed to address what was arguably our biggest issue last season - failed in the market in not pursuing quality fullbacks (and a quality number 9 perhaps?), failed tactically in always approaching these games with plan A and not mixing things up to counter the other manager's counter, and failed on the training field as the players keep doing the same ineffective things in these games.

It's disappointing because after game 5 I had already given up on the league and after game 7 I'm already thinking CL qualification is a long shot. That's very early to be giving up hope largely because of this issue. Thank God we were gifted an easy CL group that I'm still very confident we'll make easy work of despite the 4 points thrown away.

Klopp needs to understand that there sometimes needs to be a plan B. We need to exploit the absolute masses of space given out wide. I would like to see Solanke given a start in our next PL game against a weaker team, he has the movement and the presence to exploit all the balls that inevitable will come from out wide and I would like Ox given the RB position so we have (what should be) genuine attacking quality in that area. Probably Robertson at LB too as his delivery looks far superior to Moreno.

If teams are going to come out and give us the freedom of the flanks let's take advantage and actually find a way of hurting teams here. Imo this is an obvious issue from last season and Klopp should have been making plans to address this. He very clearly hasn't, and despite the obvious misfortune and misfiring which he can't control, he needs to own accountability for this.

Yellow pack crisps

Moist Bread wrote: »

It's all we have.

2ppg at the end of the season and I will be over the moon. It's the true measure of success.

Points count and not much else! I dislike mourinho as much as the next person the second season his teams know what he wants and play it effectively! He buys the players he knows will do the job and usually is successful! That's a plan! That's coaching to the highest order! You saw that yesterday with Benitez! Had a plan and got a result.

Utopia Parkway

We're 2 points off Spurs in 3rd.

Frustrating draws of late but yeah it's no time for panic. Ultimately the two Manchester clubs will probably fight for the title. Unsurprisingly they have spent more than anyone else in recent years.

Think Klopp needs to spend for a change in January though. Without a doubt he has to take stick for not prioritising signing a center-half during the Summer. If not VVD then someone else. That really was a blunder all of his own creation. We need a striker too but don't see that happening until next Summer.

Utopia Parkway

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

This will honestly be United's first stern test. Stoke put it up to them, and they were lucky enough to get a draw. I can't wait. Hopefully Mourinho is feeling as cocky as their fans right now, and leaves his bus at home. Cos if they come and play, I think we'll 'ave em!

They won't. Mourinho will be more than happy to come and defend again and maybe nick something from a set-piece. He'll be more than happy with a point given they have been beating the crap sides. He won't change his approach. I wouldn't either as it's the best way to get a result against us. Defend in numbers and wait for that one chance where someone messes up at the back for us. Fellaini will probably put one in off his backside.

Morzadec

Morzadec wrote: »

..............

Klopp needs to understand that there sometimes needs to be a plan B. .......................

He seems dead against such a concept.

brevity

There are plan "B"'s but they are a subsection of plan "A"

mosstin

brevity wrote: »

Anyone having trouble getting to the last post in the thread?

Yes. I'm on my smartphone so it's smart enough to take me away from this thread today.

Damien360

Morzadec wrote: »

Disclaimer before this critical post: I like Klopp and I'm confident...........

I won’t quote the rest but I found myself agreeing with a lot of that. Good reasoned post. If you check out the Man Utd and Arsenal forums around match end yesterday you will also find pretty much the same argument in parts across a number of different posters.

I still like Klopp but he seems stuck in the mud.

A win against Man Utd and Spurs the week after will lift the thread for week before reality dawns again with Huddersfield likely to take points off us. On current form, it’s hard to see us beating any of the above.

5starpool

SteM wrote: »

The phrases 'PPG' and 'points per game' must be used more in the Liverpool threads than all other threads combined on this forum. I don't know another set of fans that discuss this figure so much.

I'm just glad we don't really us the word 'narrative' that seems so beloved of utd fans in recent years for some reason.

SteM

SteM wrote: »

The phrases 'PPG' and 'points per game' must be used more in the Liverpool threads than all other threads combined on this forum. I don't know another set of fans that discuss this figure so much.

I'll apologise on my own behalf :pac:
I've been speeling on about ppg as long as I'm on here (not too long admittedly)

Harry Palmr

Has anyone mentioned alternative tables or net spend?

Klopp needs to know that I've got my eye on him and he better smarten up his act or I'll see him after class.

Agent Coulson

We have lost just two games so far this season one of which was to the best side in England when we were down to 10 men.


Sometimes I think we must be as bad as Palace or Everton when I see some over the top reactions.

martyos121

Augeo wrote: »

I'll apologise on my own behalf :pac:
I've been speeling on about ppg as long as I'm on here (not too long admittedly)

PPG is an accurate metric in fairness. The more pints the average Liverpool fan consumes during a match directly correlates to the level of negativity around the club and results in general. Of course there are exceptions, such as any friendly match played in Dublin, where the fans who would usually watch in the pub all pile into the Aviva to see them win a meaningless contest, a phenomenon known as "The Barstooler Paradox".

Points per game is a load of bollocks though, obviously.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We have lost just two games so far this season one of which was to the best side in England when we were down to 10 men.


Sometimes I think we must be as bad as Palace or Everton when I see some over the top reactions.

And so completely missing the point of the summer - Liverpool was supposed to be fit and ready to battle on four fronts and win something. Instead we got one player that was sought, one in a year and the other not at all. The defence is a jukebox of jokes, the midfield is a mess and the attack confused and chaotic. Palace are what they are, Everton bless them are making us look good and may that long be the case but that's hardly an adequate measure of progress is it?

passatman86

Dont know why,but when I watch klopp after match interviews win lose or draw I cant help but agree with him 99% of the time. I suppose its his brutal simple honesty.. hoping we get back on track after the internationals..ynwa

RainMakerToo

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We have lost just two games so far this season one of which was to the best side in England when we were down to 10 men.


Sometimes I think we must be as bad as Palace or Everton when I see some over the top reactions.

Hodgson out!

Morzadec

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We have lost just two games so far this season one of which was to the best side in England when we were down to 10 men.


Sometimes I think we must be as bad as Palace or Everton when I see some over the top reactions.

How many games did United lose last year on their glorious march to 6th place in the league? Not that many. And they were ****e.

Points are all that matter and draws don't get you many. We could lose 10 games and win 28 and I'd be happy because we'd possibly win the league.

It's all about points and wins in a league. If we'd beaten Watford and Burnley and lost yesterday I'd be happy and we'd have one loss more.

Being tough to beat is great for a tournament (look at Portugal in 2016). Tournament's are about not losing. Leagues are about winning (broadly speaking).

Been a Liverpool fan long enough now to know that frequent draws against smaller teams that come just to defend will kill you in the league. It's been our undoing in countless seasons under numerous managers now. It keeps happening so is rightly being questioned.

Agent Coulson

Harry Palmr wrote: »

And so completely missing the point of the summer - Liverpool was supposed to be fit and ready to battle on four fronts and win something. Instead we got one player that was sought, one in a year and the other not at all. The defence is a jukebox of jokes, the midfield is a mess and the attack confused and chaotic. Palace are what they are, Everton bless them are making us look good and may that long be the case but that's hardly an adequate measure of progress is it?

No one disagrees with either and both were the same last season as well and should have been addressed.

Now the addressed part is a strange one the the manager had his targets to strengthen both areas. Now could anyone really have expected or predicted what happened to stop those players being signed for this season. I would say no.


This is where we have to understand Klopp is loyal to his players and in some cases probably to loyal and this is where we are now his loyalty and trust in his players may be misplaced and misguided.

Not having replacements lined up for VVD & Keita was a mistake but understandable for the man Klopp is when it comes to that loyalty and it's that loyalty in the long term that will cost him his job just as it did at BVB.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

..................it's that loyalty in the long term that will cost him his job just as it did at BVB.

Jaysus, lads writing the obituary of Klopp's LFC reign already.

johnpatrick81

I'd imagine he must have laid it out in long discussions with the higher upper folks(mainly Linda) that we might not see as much improvement as he'd have hoped due to missing out on VVD and Keita last summer. The fact we may have both by next summer would suggest Klopp is absolutely fine in the eyes of the owners for the forseeable future, even without an improvement in the league this season, and has been reassured of this.

Otherwise he would surely have taken a few gambles in the transfer market for similar players to VVD and Keita.

brevity

The frustration is understandable... Liverpool had the chance to improve during the summer and ****ed it up royally.

The defence is a mess and the midfield doesnt seem to be clicking. Henderson is playing in a position that doesn't suit his strengths and Emre's head is all over the place. Winaldjum is also off the pace. None of them seem to be able to play with each other.

Liverpool's finishing is also poor but that could fix itself.

During the transfer window my expectations were to qualify for CL, win a cup and not be an embarrassment in the CL - nothing crazy.

I'm not sure Liverpool can do that now, they are out of one cup competition already.

It is early days though.

Agent Coulson

Both Manchester clubs along with Chelsea and Spurs have better first teams and squads than us the four of them have close to a decade and more of building those successful squads to get them to that strength compared to our two seasons.


Our squad is comparable to Arsenals who we will be competing with for 5th hoping one of the other 4 fcuk up completely.


So finishing 4th again this season would be progression for Liverpool even if people don't want to believe it and 5th would be just on par.

ElTel

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Both Manchester clubs along with Chelsea and Spurs have better first teams and squads than us the four of them have close to a decade and more of building those successful squads to get them to that strength compared to our two seasons.


Our squad is comparable to Arsenals who we will be competing with for 5th hoping one of the other 4 fcuk up completely.


So finishing 4th again this season would be progression for Liverpool even if people don't want to believe it and 5th would be just on par.

I'd agree with this but would add a caveat that goes back to an earlier post of yours that mentioned Klopp being "too loyal".

Progression this year for me must include the fringe players being used so that means a less stubborn manager I guess. I was really expecting to see games
where Firmino (say) would be completely rested, proactive substitutions (Millner or Ox on for Gomes yesterday...Oh but I promised to play you guys in midfield this season.) instead of reacting to the oppositions moves and/or leaving it so late.

I'm still hopeful. It's an exciting style we play and the big test around Christmas with a quarter of the season crammed into little over a month will leave little doubt as to which way we're heading.

Agent Coulson

ElTel wrote: »

I'd agree with this but would add a caveat that goes back to an earlier post of yours that mentioned Klopp being "too loyal".

Progression this year for me must include the fringe players being used so that means a less stubborn manager I guess. I was really expecting to see games
where Firmino (say) would be completely rested, proactive substitutions (Millner or Ox on for Gomes yesterday...Oh but I promised to play you guys in midfield this season.) instead of reacting to the oppositions moves and/or leaving it so late.

I'm still hopeful. It's an exciting style we play and the big test around Christmas with a quarter of the season crammed into little over a month will leave little doubt as to which way we're heading.

All 3 keepers have played games this season, All the fullbacks have played this season, All the centerbacks have played this season, All the midfielders have played this season and all the forwards have played this season so basically every fit squad member has played minutes this season except Markovic and the season is only 12 games in.

ElTel

Agent Coulson wrote: »

All 3 keepers have played games this season, All the fullbacks have played this season, All the centerbacks have played this season, All the midfielders have played this season and all the forwards have played this season so basically every fit squad member has played minutes this season except Markovic and the season is only 12 games in.

OK.

Agent Coulson

ElTel wrote: »

OK.

That's the loyalty part trying to keep everyone happy and I understand it.


But I would like to see the same starting 11 start week in week out barring injury.


The game is a squad game now and you have up to 25 players to keep happy.


When you see DS15 sulking while sitting on the bench you can see why the manager wants to try and keep everyone happy for squad moral instead of letting the sulkiness grow throughout the squad.

Klopp wants his players to run through walls for him and to that he also has to be loyal to them.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Both Manchester clubs along with Chelsea and Spurs have better first teams and squads than us the four of them have close to a decade and more of building those successful squads to get them to that strength compared to our two seasons.


Our squad is comparable to Arsenals who we will be competing with for 5th hoping one of the other 4 fcuk up completely.


So finishing 4th again this season would be progression for Liverpool even if people don't want to believe it and 5th would be just on par.

We had the 6th/5th best squad when he came in and I would accept your point that the other clubs have a head start in terms of squad strength, but at some point he has to take responsibility of improving the squad and he/we simply haven't done enough.

The defence is worse than when he took over and the midfield isnt much better. He's had time and funds available to build a better squad, I'm not looking for an overnight instantly better squad, dont get me wrong but look at the issues. The GK/CB's options are so low on quality its downright negligence to leave it continue like that into a new season, midfield is pretty average too....its the same problems when he arrived if we are honest and he hasn't addressed it....its not good enough.

5th is par is just an excuse really, its his responsibility to improve the squad and he didn't do what was required to bring it up to standard. Anything outside top 4 should be viewed as a failure as a result.

NukaCola

Also, the CB's got slaughtered for the goal by everyone, and rightly so, but Gini and Hendo basically just stood and watched Shelvey make the pass......the counter press has gone to ****e without Lallana, we have just turned into a counter attacking team with our Midfield really slow at releasing the ball, doesn't work really.....

BorneTobyWilde

There are teams above us who have lost more games in league, we're having a bad run in front of goal. Someone is going to pay for it, and it's United next. It could be a brilliant victory. Would not be a shock to me if we hit them for 4 +

Hit them for 4 plus
Fingers crossed.

NukaCola

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

There are teams above us who have lost more games in league, we're having a bad run in front of goal. Someone is going to pay for it, and it's United next. It could be a brilliant victory. Would not be a shock to me if we hit them for 4 +

Mourinhos teams has only conceded more than 4 goals twice in his entire career, and one of those teams were Barca.........I think it would be fairly shocking if we managed it tbh......

gimli2112

Just watching MOTD2. Newcastle got a corner near the end and the crowd started screaming like they won a penalty. They nearly scored from it. This is what we've become?

NukaCola

gimli2112 wrote: »

Just watching MOTD2. Newcastle got a corner near the end and the crowd started screaming like they won a penalty. They nearly scored from it. This is what we've become?

Crowd really got behind Newcastle yesterday, you'd be surprised the difference it can make at times, really impressive.

BorneTobyWilde

NukaCola wrote: »

Mourinhos teams has only conceded more than 4 goals twice in his entire career, and one of those teams were Barca.........I think it would be fairly shocking if we managed it tbh......

3 will do .

J Mysterio

brevity wrote: »

Anyone having trouble getting to the last post in the thread?

Yes, ita been happening constantly for the last month or two. Only on this thread for me.

corwill

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes, ita been happening constantly for the last month or two. Only on this thread for me.

Been happening to me for months on mobile version.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

3 will do .

..... it might :pac:

shamrock55

Atmosphere at at James's yesterday was fantastic tbf,and it definitely makes a difference, different class compared to league games at anfield

5starpool

J Mysterio wrote: »

It's some sort of coercion to get us to move to that dodgy 'new' boards.

On the old, old boards skin it is still fine for me, no problems with that.

Harry Palmr

brevity wrote: »

Anyone having trouble getting to the last post in the thread?

There is no last page in this thread...:eek:

I'd go with the following against Utd........... Mig and whatever back 4 can be slapped together, I'd sooner Robertson play instead of Moreno though.

I'd go with a 4 man midfield and 2 up front, being mindful that our formation doesn't matter than much as they'll all swarm forward for much of the game.

I'd play Milner and one of Can or Hendo, Hendo more than likely........captain etc.
The other two would be Salah and Coutinho, I'd have Salah on the left side.

Up front Mane and Firmino, as Mane would be drawn central at times Milner could be told to go out right when Hendo sits. Though Milner would be starting in CM to keep him happy in the head like.

I think we miss Milner from the starting 11 but as he isn't featuring at full back this season getting him on the pitch at CM with space on the right for him to operate from seems a good idea.

Mane, Salah and Milner could trouble the Utd full backs out wide, not cross wise but beating them and getting into the box & passing to folk in dangerous positions........... chance creation if you like :pac: