Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

BullBlackNova

If we make it through the international break without sustaining an injury, I'd like to see...

Mignolet
Gomez - Matip - Lovren - Robertson
Can - Henderson
Mané - Coutinho - Salah
Firmino

When is Lallana back? You'd miss him from the starting XI. Agreed that we are missing Milner too, I just don't know exactly where I'd put him.

United are very creative - Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Lukaku can all punish us so we need a solid, well-drilled unit blocking off their path to goal. And then we need our front 4/5 to be on their absolute best form because they're well-drilled back there too...

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

Also, the CB's got slaughtered for the goal by everyone, and rightly so, but Gini and Hendo basically just stood and watched Shelvey make the pass......the counter press has gone to ****e without Lallana, we have just turned into a counter attacking team with our Midfield really slow at releasing the ball, doesn't work really.....

if you watch the goal again Henderson closes down the man who passes the ball to shelvey, he then tries to get to shelvey as well....so once again...i dont know what more people expect Henderson to do. Hes trying to cover for our front four...coutinho is out on the left with mane, sturridge has just squandered possession back to them and salah is out right.... theres a big gap in the middle when the move breaks down and henderson is trying to cover all this. So saying he stood and watched isnt correct. Wijnaldum on the other hand is meanwhile 15 yards away watching all this and turns his back on the pass in a half hearted attempt to block it.

Not every single goal we concede is down to the midfielders, they're never going to be able to block every through ball..and when they cant its up to the defence to be awake and in the right position. Its Matip's fault for me. Very poor positional play.

johnpatrick81

In a way, I think we're still seeing the repercussions from the City game. It massively dented our confidence, and we haven't seemed to get it back. It may have affected Mane too.

To think the ref was a few seconds thought from issuing a yellow instead of a red(the whole switching pockets after taking another look). Hopefully everyone returns fresh next week with a clean slate, and Mane gets up and running again.

Iused2likebusts

I'd play milner RB. Gomez although quite quick turns like a bus. Mourinho will target that area of the pitch and I'd prefer someone with milners experience to deal with it.

davyboy1975

Would anyone switch mane and salah. I know they switch during the game but mane was so devastating last year from the right and it might help salah finishing wise if he was on the left side

eyerer

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Would anyone switch mane and salah. I know they switch during the game but mane was so devastating last year from the right and it might help salah finishing wise if he was on the left side

Yeah I thought this and it was done in parts in the last game.
Why shift Mane to the left so Salah can cut in and shoot from the right when his shots are so poor.

Nerdlingr

Can klopp please stop putting coutinho out left as well to accommodate others. Just leave him in the middle to pull the strings.

sword1

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Can klopp please stop putting coutinho out left as well to accommodate others. Just leave him in the middle to pull the strings.

I didn't see him posting yet today

One_Of_Shanks

sword1 wrote: »

I didn't see him posting yet today

Don't be silly, he doesn't post here. He's just a lurker! Hello Jurgen!

davyboy1975

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Would anyone switch mane and salah. I know they switch during the game but mane was so devastating last year from the right and it might help salah finishing wise if he was on the left side

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Can klopp please stop putting coutinho out left as well to accommodate others. Just leave him in the middle to pull the strings.

+1 to both

In my 4 4 2 proposal Salah is on the left and Coutinho is #10 ish in midfield, Mane up front with Firmino and Milner operating CM but more to the right, also provides defensive cover on that side.

Nerdlingr

sword1 wrote: »

I didn't see him posting yet today

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

He's the one that picks the team so thought it suitable to use his name instead of 'we' 'i' etc etc.
Its alright to ask that the manager of the team you follow pick/play players in the right position no? And you know, use his name is doing so !!

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

if you watch the goal again Henderson closes down the man who passes the ball to shelvey, he then tries to get to shelvey as well....so once again...i dont know what more people expect Henderson to do. Hes trying to cover for our front four...coutinho is out on the left with mane, sturridge has just squandered possession back to them and salah is out right.... theres a big gap in the middle when the move breaks down and henderson is trying to cover all this. So saying he stood and watched isnt correct. Wijnaldum on the other hand is meanwhile 15 yards away watching all this and turns his back on the pass in a half hearted attempt to block it.

Not every single goal we concede is down to the midfielders, they're never going to be able to block every through ball..and when they cant its up to the defence to be awake and in the right position. Its Matip's fault for me. Very poor positional play.

You call it closing down, I call it running around headless getting nowhere near the play. His pressing was woefully ineffective for the goal, chasing the ball rather than closing down the players in good positions that then had time to make the key pass. Wij was worse, both not doing their job though. I also said the CB's deserve a lot of criticism.

I also dont or didn't suggest every single goal we concede is down to the midfield but they certainly didn't help in this situation.

sword1

Nerdlingr wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

He's the one that picks the team so thought it suitable to use his name instead of 'we' 'i' etc etc.
Its alright to ask that the manager of the team you follow pick/play players in the right position no? And you know, use his name is doing so !!

No bother, only messing, as much as we like to think we are football managers he has alot more information on what happens in training, what they have tried etc. Maybe posting him a letter would have a better chance of him seeing it rather than an Irish football thread

gafferino

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Don't be silly, he doesn't post here. He's just a lurker! Hello Jurgen!

Morzadec

davyboy1975 wrote: »

Would anyone switch mane and salah. I know they switch during the game but mane was so devastating last year from the right and it might help salah finishing wise if he was on the left side

It's an idea for sure.

Salah far prefers being out right, but if we accept that the number one problem in these matches against buses is our inability to be effective in attacking wide areas (where teams allow us so much place to crowd the middle) then doing this would certainly give these dangerous players more space to work in with their natural feet.

City sometimes play this strategy of "false full backs" where they come inside as extra midfielders in possession allowing Sterling and Sane to truly own the attacking wide areas (also allows your more attack minded centre mids to effect the game further up the field, something that would get the best out of Coutinho and Lallana when he's back)

It's certainly a role I could envisage Milner playing, maybe even Henderson too (fullbacks out of possession, centre mids in possession).

I would not be against this experiment, just as I would not be against experimenting with Solanke as a starter at 9, because something needs to be done to counter the way teams counter us in these matches.

dogbert27

Is TAA injured?

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

You call it closing down, I call it running around headless getting nowhere near the play. His pressing was woefully ineffective for the goal, chasing the ball rather than closing down the players in good positions that then had time to make the key pass. Wij was worse, both not doing their job though. I also said the CB's deserve a lot of criticism.

I also dont or didn't suggest every single goal we concede is down to the midfield but they certainly didn't help in this situation.

Didnt mean you personally but it seems Henderson gets blamed for EVERY single goal on here. There's always someone on here that will find some kind of bone to pick with him.
Richie picks up the ball outside their box and Henderson closes him down, he then pops it off to Shelvey who is free, Henderson then tries to get over to Shelvey. I really dont see what more he could have done.
And of course he has to chase the ball.. he has to close down the man who's in possession!! That the teams first job when we lose possession, win it back...and you cant win it back by marking fellas in 'good positions'. Someone has to engage the opposition.
If sturridge had busted a gut to win back the ball he lost, if wijnaldum has picked up the extra man in midfield, if our front four didnt interchange so much and lose shape, if our centre backs actually did their job...i'd put all those things before blaming Henderson for trying to win the ball back from Richie.

Apologies for the rant. Nothing personal!!

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Didnt mean you personally but it seems Henderson gets blamed for EVERY single goal on here. There's always someone on here that will find some kind of bone to pick with him.
Richie picks up the ball outside their box and Henderson closes him down, he then pops it off to Shelvey who is free, Henderson then tries to get over to Shelvey. I really dont see what more he could have done.
And of course he has to chase the ball.. he has to close down the man who's in possession!! That the teams first job when we lose possession, win it back...and you cant win it back by marking fellas in 'good positions'. Someone has to engage the opposition.
If sturridge had busted a gut to win back the ball he lost, if wijnaldum has picked up the extra man in midfield, if our front four didnt interchange so much and lose shape, if our centre backs actually did their job...i'd put all those things before blaming Henderson for trying to win the ball back from Richie.

Apologies for the rant. Nothing personal!!

I actually rate Henderson, and I'm only guessing as I'm not a tactical coach, but I would think counter pressing, and the way we can do it, is closing down players in good positions in correct situations. You cant just run to close the player with the ball, you'll be running all day.

He tries to close down a player with the ball instead of reading the situation. I think he made a wrong call, i suppose its easy to say now analysing the situation. We all complained about the distance and position of the CB's but the Midfield is just as bad in that situation. Wij is miles away, Coutinho is nowhere too. I might have been harsh on Hendo, looking back it looks like he's best placed positionally and he is working he just made the wrong decision. But I'd be looking at him to lead that midfield better.

My main point wasn't really "Henderson is to blame", it was our midfield didn't do enough and our counter pressing has gone really poor, and that was an example of it.

rgace

I think part of the plan is to press in all sorts of situations so the opposition never get to relax on the ball and get into a pattern of play, thats why our midfielders look like they are running around headlessly because that is what the manager wants.

We regularly dive in on players who are out near the sideline where most teams would use this to force a hoof or turn backwards

Nerdlingr

rgace wrote: »

We regularly dive in on players who are out near the sideline where most teams would use this to force a hoof or turn backwards

Thats usually just Moreno.

corwill

rgace wrote: »

I think part of the plan is to press in all sorts of situations so the opposition never get to relax on the ball and get into a pattern of play, thats why our midfielders look like they are running around headlessly because that is what the manager wants.

We regularly dive in on players who are out near the sideline where most teams would use this to force a hoof or turn backwards

The way we commit absolutely everyone so far up the pitch all match long, it's no wonder centre midfielders and centre halfs are left so stranded when our possession breaks down. Someone needs to mind the house.

Irishmale0399

rgace wrote: »

I think part of the plan is to press in all sorts of situations so the opposition never get to relax on the ball and get into a pattern of play, thats why our midfielders look like they are running around headlessly because that is what the manager wants.

We regularly dive in on players who are out near the sideline where most teams would use this to force a hoof or turn backwards

Klopps system is that the players first have to learn to run at 110% for 100 minutes, then they will learn to play in their positions and only when 110% effort, 100 minutes and positions are learned will we have a team playing the Klopp way. At the moment the team are not at that level...they are at approx. 85-90% fitness wise.

A player like DS15 wont fit into that system as he cant run for 100 minutes....at the moment as I see it, having seen Klopp for his full period in Dortmund, he is still getting the squad building done. This is why he and the owners always say its a long term project...there I tend to believe him/them.

Lets see how it is next Jan...will he get players he wants/who will he move out, send on loan....lets then look next summer...if he gets VVD, Gomez, Woodburn, Wilson, Ward, Robertson step up a level and Keita comes in....team has a new face straigt away.

Have a feeling Klopp is still getting to know English players he may see fit to be part of the team and added to that he is working on players that he knows who can come in. I suspect if we give him 18-24 months the squad will be very different and will be playing his system. Look at he has brought in so far......how many are flops??? Karius is the only one who is iffy...however I suspect a lot of that has to do with a lack of regular playing time and a dodgy defence infront of him.

corwill

That's being extremely kind to the spaghetti-wristed pound-shop-Pewdeepie.

Irishmale0399

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

............ Look at he has brought in so far......how many are flops??? Karius is the only one who is iffy...however I suspect a lot of that has to do with a lack of regular playing time and a dodgy defence infront of him.

Are Matip and Wij really better than iffy over the course of a season? When the going gets tough? Wij isn't doing much to put him ahead of Can or Hendo, neither of whom are in good from currently.

Grujic, player for the future so we don't judge him yet?

Klavan is brutal, unless his role is 4th choice CB.

Robertson, Solanke and Ox are only in the door, Ox looks as bad as Robertson looks good.

Liam O

corwill wrote: »

The way we commit absolutely everyone so far up the pitch all match long, it's no wonder centre midfielders and centre halfs are left so stranded when our possession breaks down. Someone needs to mind the house.

I was thinking of starting a thread on this but Klopp's Dortmund team were very different to this Liverpool team. Yes they pressed up the pitch but not as rigidly as the Liverpool press. The full backs weren't as attacking and there was always a big man up front to hold the ball and let the 3 behind him transition at the right time rather than chasing everything forward.

For Liverpool they press forward even when the other team are in a lot of space so one good pass can take a lot of players out of the game with no cover. The Dortmund team would do a far better job at covering those passing lanes and pressed in a more controlled manner than the gung ho stuff Liverpool are doing leaving players all over the place.

Morzadec

Augeo wrote: »

Are Matip and Wij really better than iffy over the course of a season? When the going gets tough? Wij isn't doing much to put him ahead of Can or Hendo, neither of whom are in good from currently.

Grujic, player for the future so we don't judge him yet?

Klavan is brutal, unless his role is 4th choice CB.

Robertson, Solanke and Ox are only in the door, Ox looks as bad as Robertson looks good.

My two cents:

Matip imo is a very good centre back, incredibly good ball player - has some physical weaknesses against big strong centre forwards is the only thing. Having a VVD beside him would be a huge help. But my call on him is that he's good enough to be a starter for us long term. He would look top class in another team imo with a better system and better defenders around him. He is one of the few players who shows impetus and forward thinking when we need a goal (he can't do much from centre back but he does his best).

Wij is a good player but way off the standard of centre mids at other top English teams and has had a pretty poor start to the season overall. Goes missing a lot. A player I would keep but as a squad option. Keita coming in should make that happen. In the modern market I would say he was a decent signing at that price as a long term squad option.

Morzadec

Morzadec wrote: »

.................

Wij is a good player but way off the standard of centre mids at other top English teams and has had a pretty poor start to the season overall. Goes missing a lot. A player I would keep but as a squad option. Keita coming in should make that happen. In the modern market I would say he was a decent signing at that price as a long term squad option.

I'd call that no better than iffy tbh

I can see your point on Matip but he'll be with us at least a season and a half before we sign a VVD and he can only be judged on his performances for us so far. I'm not seeing a good to great CB, I'm seeing an ok to good CB .........aka.......iffy

Knex*

Try as I might, it pains me to listen to Melissa Reddy. That accent forever stabs my brain. Its a shame, as her opinion generally adds quite a lot to the discussions on The Anfield Wrap, or wherever.

brevity

Could Henderson play the Lallana role?

mosstin

brevity wrote: »

Could Henderson play the Lallana role?

Absolutely not a ****ing hope.

Harry Palmr

brevity wrote: »

Could Henderson play the Lallana role?

He could certainly play further up the field one of the two in a 1/2 or the right flank on a diamond. Though even then Lallana would still trump him all things being equal.

With Bale crocked I wonder will Ben Woodburn start against Ireland.

brevity

I guess my thinking is that it's unlikely that Henderson could be dropped so maybe play him further up with Can and Winaldjum playing the deeper roles. I don't know if that's Winaldjum's correct position though.

Who is dropped from Mane/Coutinho/Salah/Firmino then if Henderson goes forward?

The system is so ****ing weird imo.

Rumple Stillson

brevity wrote: »

I guess my thinking is that it's unlikely that Henderson could be dropped so maybe play him further up with Can and Winaldjum playing the deeper roles. I don't know if that's Winaldjum's correct position though.

Who is dropped from Mane/Coutinho/Salah/Firmino then if Henderson goes forward?

The system is so ****ing weird imo.

I still think Henderson is the best of a bad lot in the deeper midfield position. Can isn't quick enough physically or mentally to snuff out danger.

I think having a really good defensive midfielder would solve a lot of problems and just allow him to sit. As poor as Matip and Lovren have been, they are usually left totally unprotected.

Harry Palmr

Winaldjum played as a No 10 and second striker at Newcastle most of the time, plus some wide play. Never as a No 6 or 8 as far as I know yet at PSV he was a bit of a box to box type.

Rumple Stillson

Liam O wrote: »

I was thinking of starting a thread on this but Klopp's Dortmund team were very different to this Liverpool team. Yes they pressed up the pitch but not as rigidly as the Liverpool press. The full backs weren't as attacking and there was always a big man up front to hold the ball and let the 3 behind him transition at the right time rather than chasing everything forward.

For Liverpool they press forward even when the other team are in a lot of space so one good pass can take a lot of players out of the game with no cover. The Dortmund team would do a far better job at covering those passing lanes and pressed in a more controlled manner than the gung ho stuff Liverpool are doing leaving players all over the place.

Agree generally with your point but to be fair, teams are creating very few chances against us, the problem is when they do they are clear cut and they are taking them.

eyerer

brevity wrote: »

I guess my thinking is that it's unlikely that Henderson could be dropped so maybe play him further up with Can and Winaldjum playing the deeper roles. I don't know if that's Winaldjum's correct position though.

Who is dropped from Mane/Coutinho/Salah/Firmino then if Henderson goes forward?

The system is so ****ing weird imo.

It's like we don't have the right players for the system. Few of them seem suited to the job they are asked to do.
And we don't buy ones that suit.

Knex*

brevity wrote: »

Could Henderson play the Lallana role?

That's what he played under Rodgers, but I don't think he's as mobile for that now.

Could be wrong though. At the time I thought we would/should never see him playing deeper, and here we are.

Harry Palmr

Ideally Henderson would be on the bench or playing for Stoke/Newcastle

Agent Coulson

I liked the cut of the gib of Lascelles in the game 23 year who looked and commanded his area and teammates with the air of a 33 year old.

He looked a real warrior and captain something we badly need.

Gbear

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ideally Henderson would be on the bench or playing for Stoke/Newcastle

If that's your standard you'll be a long time looking for a partner for Keita, because he's better than Wijnaldum or Can.

Iused2likebusts

Henderson had a poor start to the season but I reckon he has been our best player over the past 3 games after coutinho.

Agent Coulson

Virgil van Dijk speaks out on failed Liverpool transfer - will consider move in January

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/virgil-van-dijk-speaks-out-13710120

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

If that's your standard you'll be a long time looking for a partner for Keita, because he's better than Wijnaldum or Can.

Indeed.
Can't fathom how Henderson is deemed to be fairly sh1t compared to wij or Can.

It seems to be fashionable to slate Henderson.... he's being played out of position but does OK to good most games and rarely badly.

Wij has been a passenger for most of the season.... recycling the ball etc considered too.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Virgil van Dijk speaks out on failed Liverpool transfer - will consider move in January

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/virgil-van-dijk-speaks-out-13710120

Virgil seems a bit of an ole knickers.....

brevity

brevity wrote: »

....

Who is dropped from Mane/Coutinho/Salah/Firmino then if Henderson goes forward?

The system is so ****ing weird imo.

4 4 2

Midfield of milner, hendo, coutinho & salah (left wing)
Bobby & mane up front.

Can & wij on the bench.

When lallana is back 4 3 3 might work again but we're a couple of months away from that I think.

Harry Palmr

If Henderson is the standard then we're ****ed basically.

shamrock55

Augeo wrote: »

4 4 2

Midfield of milner, hendo, coutinho & salah (left wing)
Bobby & mane up front.

Can & wij on the bench.

When lallana is back 4 3 3 might work again but we're a couple of months away from that I think.

I'd try 442 also but have mane and Salah on either wing,hendo and coutinho in the centre,with bobby and Danny or solanke up front,I know coutinho could be dodgey in the centre but worth a try I think

shamrock55

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Henderson is the standard then we're ****ed basically.

But why Henderson,you could say that about all our players bar Salah,coutinho,mane,and bobby,this is exactly what other posters are saying why make hendo the scapegoat

Klopp bought wij so wij can't be criticised.....

johnpatrick81

I'd agree, Hendo has definitely been the best of the midfield 3 in recent games.

Hard to see when it might happen, but I think the team needs a steady run of games with a settled starting 11. So many seem uncomfortable in their positions recently.

With Mane and Coutinho just back, let's hope the midfield and attack settle into their rhythm again soon.