Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2017/2018

klose

In work so haven't seen anything but have to be happy with a win and 2 away goals. Up to klopp now to make the obvious investments needed before the window closes, ball firmly in his court about how our season goes.

shamrock55

Klopp won't sort our defence in 2wks,he hasn't done it in 2years,he is simply unable to,and I'll tell you another thing he'd want to have a look at the midfield too because its horrendous and second rate

Turtyturd

Wouldn't be overly critical of the midfield tonight. They were given a game plan and were disciplined enough to stick to it. Henderson is the main one I'd be critical of, he killed any fluidity to it and it improved when he went off.

Folks reckon milner is refusing to play at LB thus forcing klopp to play Moreno there?

There is no way klopp would stand for that IMO, no chance.

If that were true milner would have been training with Sakho for pre season.

brevity

I think the Coutinho situation has ballsed things up a bit. I'm sure Milner would have been playing LB if Liverpool has Coutinho available.

As Henderson is still rusty I'm thinking that Klopp needs Milner as back up for midfield.

Charlie19

Knex. wrote: »

Subreddit for footballhighlights always links them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/footballhighlights/comments/6twb7d/hoffenheim_vs_liverpool_uefa_champions_league/

this is the best site though (and direct link for tonight's highlights):

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2017/08/15/hoffenheim-vs-liverpool-highlights/

Thanks V much.

I do use reddit for streams but jesus Its a pain to find other stuff.
I'll have to give more time to navigating around it;)

Osmosis Jones

Moreno's probably just playing LB ahead of Milner because we're so short in midfield.

5starpool

Augeo wrote: »

Folks reckon milner is refusing to play at LB thus forcing klopp to play Moreno there?

There is no way klopp would stand for that IMO, no chance.

If that were true milner would have been training with Sakho for pre season.

Not refusing, just saying that he'd prefer to play there. It's more plausible in my head than Klopp suddenly deciding that Moreno is great all of a sudden.

ERG89

brevity wrote:

I think the Coutinho situation has ballsed things up a bit. I'm sure Milner would have been playing LB if Liverpool has Coutinho available.

He's not playing Milner cause of Coutinho?
If Milner was playing in midfield it would make sense but he's benched.
It's a weird decision but I think Klopp thought after his form in pre season he'd give Moreno a chance which hasn't worked cause he just isn't good enough plain & simple. Same with Lovren, not in form but starting by default cause our back ups are even worse.
I don't know why Robertson ain't in the match day squad cause I assume he has travelled to Germany.

mormank

niallo27 wrote: »

Anyone think the ref was very poor tonight. Give some very soft free kicks to them. Not playing advantage in the second half with a 3 on 1 was disgraceful from what should be a top ref.

I was watching it on my phone and thought I must have just missed another couple of defenders out of shot or something for that free kick. :eek: You would have to assume that would have been a 3rd goal had the ref done his job properly.
Grim reading the past few pages. I'd hate to see this place had we lost tonight.

J Mysterio

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I remember seeing Milner play central midfield for a while after he first joined Liverpool. He wasn't that good there to be honest and most were relieved to see him moved away from there. I'd hold fire on Milner for midfield personally.

Yes. Milner is not a good CM. He is best out wide, though he won't be getting a game there. He should be no.1 LB, with Robertson as his understudy, presuming he is good enough (doesn't seem to be).

Henderson is a good CM. Unfortunately I think he is suffering from the lack of stability behind him, not allowing him to play his natural game. Hendo typically closes down a lot and does a lot of forward pressing. With the mess in defence, seems he may feel obliged to fill in gaps and cover, reducing his effectiveness.

Judging by our play, it also looks like Klopp has ordered the CB's to split when we have possesion, with Hendo dropping back to collect the ball - sometimes the last player back in that scenario - almost Rodgers' Gerrard QB role.

I dont like that as a build up strategy... with the CB's split, the side backs are pushed right up the pitch. It leaves us very vulnerable to counter attacks as neither Lovren nor Matip have pace.

~Rebel~

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes. Milner is not a good CM. He is best out wide, though he won't be getting a game there. He should be no.1 LB, with Robertson as his understudy, presuming he is good enough (doesn't seem to be).

Henderson is a good CM. Unfortunately I think he is suffering from the lack of stability behind him, not allowing him to play his natural game. Hendo typically closes down a lot and does a lot of forward pressing. With the mess in defence, seems he may feel obliged to fill in gaps and cover, reducing his effectiveness.

Judging by our play, it also looks like Klopp has ordered the CB's to split when we have possesion, with Hendo dropping back to collect the ball - sometimes the last player back in that scenario - almost Rodgers' Gerrard QB role.

I dont like that as a build up strategy... with the CB's split, the side backs are pushed right up the pitch. It leaves us very vulnerable to counter attacks as neither Lovren nor Matip have pace.

Jeez, let's not go writing off a player before he's played a single competitive minute of football for us...

sword1

I see kongdogbia is trying to force a move, plays dm, cb or lb, if we could clone him we would get three,time is running out in the window now

Jesus Wept

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm loving Moreno being in the team, in an ironic Djimi Traore sort of way.

Champions league medel written all over him.

sword1

Jesus Wept wrote: »

Champions league medel written all over him.

Hopefully

redzerdrog

IIRC Henderson was awful the first 3/4 games of last season aswell before settling into the role. Once settled he was generally very good up until his injury. So hopefully it is just the case of getting back up to speed.

The midfield is really missing that bit of guile that coutinho/lallana brings though Henderson, Can and Gini are probably the least functional of our midfield combinations

redzerdrog

sword1 wrote: »

I see kongdogbia is trying to force a move, plays dm, cb or lb, if we could clone him we would get three,time is running out in the window now

Has he not been in absolutely horrendous form this past year though?

Vicxas

I've read lots of articles that Moreno offered lots going forward.

Too fcuking bad thats not his bloody primary function. Plenty of times he left Lovren exposed that lead to a good few of the Hoffenheim chances

punk_one82

Delighted we won but **** me, it's going to be a tough season as a Liverpool fan unless we get some very good players in over the next week or two. Not feeling very hopeful. TAA did great for the freekick, but he should have played the whistle for that goal. He could have prevented it but instantly gave up and looked at the linesman. Not good enough.

Gbear

Well that's obviously wrong because it suggests we only had 6 shots per game. Presumably they only included shots on target, which isn't a measure of our accuracy.

HarryPalmr wrote: »

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/chancenverwertung/wettbewerb/GB1/saison_id/2016

which also tallies with the official PL stats. It's 18.5 in the league. Live with it!

dogbert27

punk_one82 wrote: »

Delighted we won but **** me, it's going to be a tough season as a Liverpool fan unless we get some very good players in over the next week or two. Not feeling very hopeful. TAA did great for the freekick, but he should have played the whistle for that goal. He could have prevented it but instantly gave up and looked at the linesman. Not good enough.

He's bloody 18 and filling in for Clyne. He was also on a yellow card so he had to be careful on what kind of challenge he could make.

You could easily argue that the more experienced Matip could have run with the player or the more experienced Lovren should not have dropped back before the cross came in that allowed the player to be onside.

Dickerty

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Jeez, let's not go writing off a player before he's played a single competitive minute of football for us...

It's what people do. Not massively expensive, not from the right country, so not good enough.

dogbert27

It's half time in a two leg affair and we're winning 2-1 with the added advantage of 2 away goals.

Hoffenheim have to come to Anfield and win 2-0 to progress. People here yesterday were worried that we'd draw at best!

Yes the summer has been crap transfer wise and yes our defense isn't great but we got the job done yesterday.

Dickerty

Dogbert, take your common sense and hit the road...

punk_one82

dogbert27 wrote: »

[/B]

He's bloody 18 and filling in for Clyne. He was also on a yellow card so he had to be careful on what kind of challenge he could make.

You could easily argue that the more experienced Matip could have run with the player or the more experienced Lovren should not have dropped back before the cross came in that allowed the player to be onside.

I don't care what age he is. Playing to the whistle is something that's beaten into you from the very start. Don't get me wrong, he had a solid enough game and I'm delighted with his progress but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism though, and unfortunately when you're playing for Liverpool in the Champions League you don't really get to use the age excuse. He's either solid enough to be there or he's not, and that's not the type of mistake he can afford to make at this level. As for the yellow card, you can't just say ah he was on a yellow, so making no challenge at all out of fear of making a mistake is the right option. It's not. He should have played to the whistle.

You could easily argue both those points you're right, I'm not saying it was all TAA at fault for the goal, I'm just saying his mistake in particular shouldn't have happened. I'm not even going to get into criticising Lovren because I'm sick of him starting matches for us at this stage, and as for Matip I'm not wholly convinced. He's decent, but not sure he's good enough to be a starting CB for us.

Knex*

dogbert27 wrote: »

It's half time in a two leg affair and we're winning 2-1 with the added advantage of 2 away goals.

Hoffenheim have to come to Anfield and win 2-0 to progress. People here yesterday were worried that we'd draw at best!

Yes the summer has been crap transfer wise and yes our defense isn't great but we got the job done yesterday.

I agree. I'm delighted to have won a difficult away fixture. I am, however, extremely concerned by our defensive frailties and persistence with a ticking time bomb at left back.

On Henderson. He started brutally last year and them was excellent for a period. However, during that period Can was more often or not on the bench. I'm not certain that they can't play together, but we haven't seen it yet.

Can was shocking for a lot of last year, and then excellent by the end of the year. He helps set the tone when playing as the DM, and I really like him in that position. He loves a tackle, is good in the air, and is a lot better when in the thick of the action. However he falls short when that action isn't to be found, the opposition are sitting back completely, and he's asked to pass the ball 90 times a game.

Henderson showed some promise in this area for a period last year, but my worry is his mobility has looked completely shot in these past two games. But you could argue that a lot of our team looks leggy. I doubt the pitch last night helped either though.

Hopefully when we see them on the new pitch at Anfield this weekend we'll get a good idea of what shape they are actually all in.

One_Of_Shanks

Chuffed with that win last night. We needed a bit of positivity with all thats been happening lately and that was it. Great result.
I read somewhere that it was Hoffenheim's first defeat at home since May 2016.
That sort of puts it in perspective really.
And 2 away goals in the bag. What more can you ask for?

Performance wise yes there were more alarming moments at the back but we could easily have scored 5 or 6 ourselves.
I'll probably always have a few mid-game heart-attacks when Lovren and Moreno are playing in the same back four but for now it's job done and we move on.

Harambe

People giving out as if we didn't go away to Germany and win a tough Champions League qualifier against a quality Bundesliga side who were unbeaten at home all season? Would it kill people to have a bit of positivity? God knows we need it. Liverpool fans wreck my head. One of my mates is the same. Never says anything positive about Liverpool, always focuses on the negatives, I often wonder why the f*ck he bothers to support Liverpool.

ricero

Got to agree on reflection this morning it was a great result. Hopefully we can kill them off early next week with a goal in the first half

Cartman78

Spare a thought for us Mayo supporting Liverpool fans....I follow two teams who cannot close out a game to save their lives.

Haven't seen a full game live in a while but thought we looked fairly competent last night apart from any time the ball was within 30 yards of our own goal

Mane has turned into an absolutely savage player imho - hopefully the club can tie him down to a long contract with a ridiculous release clause so we don't have to go through the same shyte with him that we're going through with Coutinho now

Knex*

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Chuffed with that win last night. We needed a bit of positivity with all thats been happening lately and that was it. Great result.
I read somewhere that it was Hoffenheim's first defeat at home since May 2016.
That sort of puts it in perspective really.
And 2 away goals in the bag. What more can you ask for?

Performance wise yes there were more alarming moments at the back but we could easily have scored 5 or 6 ourselves.
I'll probably always have a few mid-game heart-attacks when Lovren and Moreno are playing in the same back four but for now it's job done and we move on.

Lovren in every game can have such high peaks, and then such lows. There was a period of about 5 or 10 minutes last night when he was on the end of practically everything Hoffenheim were throwing into the box. Made a crucial tackle/block and some key headers.

He's betrayed by his concentration because the ability is there. I'd be more than happy with him as our 3rd CB, tbh. We just need to get someone physical in as Matip is a very solid player, but against the extremely fast or strong players you can see he's uncomfortable. I do think he's a clever and assured defender, for the most part.

Harambe

Cartman78 wrote: »

Mane has turned into an absolutely savage player imho - hopefully the club can tie him down to a long contract with a ridiculous release clause so we don't have to go through the same shyte with him that we're going through with Coutinho now

Coutinho is tied down to a long contract with no release clause.

ERG89

punk_one82 wrote:

But he should have played the whistle for that goal. He could have prevented it but instantly gave up and looked at the linesman. Not good enough.

I'd nearly blame the line as much as him. Centre backs were a few yards deeper than the fulls. Our defence is an absolute joke shop so asking an teenager to play in it will not remedy it.
I still can't fathom why we have fu*ked about all summer in the transfer market & not bought at least 2 more defenders or a midfielder. If Leipzig don't accept 60 million for Keita move on & target someone else don't bid more. It's not like we've not had to in the last few seasons.
We haven't even bid for Van Dijk & at this stage I don't see the point as Southampton would rather sell him to anyone else for less.
2 weeks left in the market & I'd be surprised if we don't leave it to the last few days to buy

Mr.H

To he honest people are picking out Moreno and Lovren without even mentioning that TAA was directly responsible for the goal and Matip was out of position a number of times. There is the fact that on a number of occasions they played the ball into the box where they had a number of men. That doesn't happen if your midfield does its job. Usually a team might get chances but when they are allowed time to play the ball into the box it means the midfield are not closing down enough.

It's not just two players. It's the whole team that are inept at defending. Our wide men provide no cover for our full backs. Our center mids are all attack minded and none are in any way defensive. Our center backs are exposed because our full backs are overworked from tracking wingers while needing to get forward.

I mean FFS any team in the world would have defensive issues with his set up. We need a defensive player in midfield. A defensive mid would allow our back 2 to become a solid back three when on the back foot. This would ease pressure on our full backs to come in narrow to help in the box(usually over crowding the box and causing havoc for ourselves anyway. Moreno and Lovren getting in each others way last night for example).

Of course we also need a real captain imo. We currently don't have one.

punk_one82

ERG89 wrote: »

I'd nearly blame the line as much as him. Centre backs were a few yards deeper than the fulls. Our defence is an absolute joke shop so asking an teenager to play in it will not remedy it.

Yeah, I've already said he wasn't the only one at fault but he could have prevented the goal had he not given up and raised his hand. Our back 4 is a shambles and TAA has a difficult job to do. It would be a lot easier for him if he was playing with some level headed, senior players. Alas, he's got 2 complete headcases in Lovren and Moreno.

dogbert27

Mr.H wrote: »

To he honest people are picking out Moreno and Lovren without even mentioning that TAA was directly responsible for the goal and Matip was out of position a number of times. There is the fact that on a number of occasions they played the ball into the box where they had a number of men. That doesn't happen if your midfield does its job. Usually a team might get chances but when they are allowed time to play the ball into the box it means the midfield are not closing down enough.

It's not just two players. It's the whole team that are inept at defending. Our wide men provide no cover for our full backs. Our center mids are all attack minded and none are in any way defensive. Our center backs are exposed because our full backs are overworked from tracking wingers while needing to get forward.

I mean FFS any team in the world would have defensive issues with his set up. We need a defensive player in midfield. A defensive mid would allow our back 2 to become a solid back three when on the back foot. This would ease pressure on our full backs to come in narrow to help in the box(usually over crowding the box and causing havoc for ourselves anyway. Moreno and Lovren getting in each others way last night for example).

Of course we also need a real captain imo. We currently don't have one.

They were launching long diagnol balls in to the box and causing problems. As you say the midfield / forwards should have been closing down players before the crosses even come in.

I looked at the goal again and the player had all the time in the world to play the cross. Mane was standing about 10 yards away from him and not attempting to close him down.

Iused2likebusts

We gave up a lot of chances last night but it was a weird game as hoffenheim just went at us. Which in a way suits us as we can hit them on the break at pace. In those types of games I'd back us to outscore the opposition. We won't come across too many games like that in the PL as teams are generally afraid to attack us. We don't tend to give up a lot of chances in games but due to poor defending will give up a sloppy goal or goals from set pieces. Last night we were getting carved open and it was edge of the seat stuff.

dogbert27

Dickerty wrote: »

Dogbert, take your common sense and hit the road...

billymitchell

The way we setup doesnt give the fill backs any cover, Its rare that you would see Mane and Salah tracking back. Cover would have to come from midfield, but we play too narrow to give the full backs cover from CM, so our FB are always going to be exposed.
You then have to rely on your CB's to help out in the wide positions, but that then leave's you exposed in the middle. I cant see any way for us to improve our defending if we continue to setup the way we do. Its probably why clubs like chelsea went 3 at the back, gives you that extra floating defender when you are defending, and allows the full backs the freedom to go forward when ever they want. But we dont have enough CB's to play that way, so we are kind of stuck as far as I can see with poor defending.

The set pieces, I have no reasoning for why we are so sh*t at them, but you have to look at the coach to solve it.

NukaCola

Good result, huge issues again at the back though. Not trying to be negative but that CB partnership in particular will kill us this season. Lovren was really poor, I see a lot of people blaming TAA and Matip for their goal but Lovren played the player onside from the long ball by being a yard deeper than the whole defence, ball watching......sure we should have dealt with it better but its this kind of sloppyness from Lovren that is simply unacceptable.

sword1

ricero wrote: »

Got to agree on reflection this morning it was a great result. Hopefully we can kill them off early next week.

That's a bit bit drastic, usually you are only calling for them to sell, what about the clean sheets?

dogbert27

Barcelona apparently have agreed a 90 million fee for Dembele and thrashing out 30 million of add-ons!

Their initial insulting offer to us was 72 million for Coutinho!! If they really want him we should be taking them to the cleaners. If they're not prepared to meet a ridiculous fee then "Sorry Phil but Barca don't seem to rate you that highly after all!"

Rekop dog

I think some people in here just are fundamentally opposed to the idea of attacking football, there's going to be times when the defence is exposed, but he's proved far more often than not against good teams his tactical approach is spot on. Unless you're striving to be naughties Barca I don't think it's realistic to expect the goals against column to be in the 20's against the type of opposition in the Prem.

A lot of you spend so much time in permanent anguish, that you fail to sit back and just enjoy having one of the most exciting sides around.

Buford T. Justice XIX

punk_one82 wrote: »

I don't care what age he is. Playing to the whistle is something that's beaten into you from the very start. Don't get me wrong, he had a solid enough game and I'm delighted with his progress but that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism though, and unfortunately when you're playing for Liverpool in the Champions League you don't really get to use the age excuse. He's either solid enough to be there or he's not, and that's not the type of mistake he can afford to make at this level. As for the yellow card, you can't just say ah he was on a yellow, so making no challenge at all out of fear of making a mistake is the right option. It's not. He should have played to the whistle.

You could easily argue both those points you're right, I'm not saying it was all TAA at fault for the goal, I'm just saying his mistake in particular shouldn't have happened. I'm not even going to get into criticising Lovren because I'm sick of him starting matches for us at this stage, and as for Matip I'm not wholly convinced. He's decent, but not sure he's good enough to be a starting CB for us.

Mr.H wrote: »

To he honest people are picking out Moreno and Lovren without even mentioning that TAA was directly responsible for the goal and Matip was out of position a number of times. There is the fact that on a number of occasions they played the ball into the box where they had a number of men. That doesn't happen if your midfield does its job. Usually a team might get chances but when they are allowed time to play the ball into the box it means the midfield are not closing down enough.

It's not just two players. It's the whole team that are inept at defending. Our wide men provide no cover for our full backs. Our center mids are all attack minded and none are in any way defensive. Our center backs are exposed because our full backs are overworked from tracking wingers while needing to get forward.

I mean FFS any team in the world would have defensive issues with his set up. We need a defensive player in midfield. A defensive mid would allow our back 2 to become a solid back three when on the back foot. This would ease pressure on our full backs to come in narrow to help in the box(usually over crowding the box and causing havoc for ourselves anyway. Moreno and Lovren getting in each others way last night for example).

Of course we also need a real captain imo. We currently don't have one.

On TAA, he has a large portion of blame for the Hoff goal. There was ample time for him to get back into position and cause problems for the attack but he just put his arm up and looked for the linesman to bail him out. He will learn from that mistake hopefully and won't make it again.

But don't forget that he has rarely played that position before so the nuances of when to track back and when to complain might be absent for a while yet. I will only get worried about him playing there if the same mistakes are being made regularly. I doubt Clyne would have made that mistake but he wouldn't have scored either.

Swings and roundabouts.

On the CBs being caught out of position regularly, that is the whole onus of the Hoff attack. Werner drags one out of position while a midfield runner makes use of the wide open spaces. Expect more of that in the return leg.

murpho999

Mr.H wrote: »

To he honest people are picking out Moreno and Lovren without even mentioning that TAA was directly responsible for the goal and Matip was out of position a number of times. There is the fact that on a number of occasions they played the ball into the box where they had a number of men. That doesn't happen if your midfield does its job. Usually a team might get chances but when they are allowed time to play the ball into the box it means the midfield are not closing down enough.

It's not just two players. It's the whole team that are inept at defending. Our wide men provide no cover for our full backs. Our center mids are all attack minded and none are in any way defensive. Our center backs are exposed because our full backs are overworked from tracking wingers while needing to get forward.

I mean FFS any team in the world would have defensive issues with his set up. We need a defensive player in midfield. A defensive mid would allow our back 2 to become a solid back three when on the back foot. This would ease pressure on our full backs to come in narrow to help in the box(usually over crowding the box and causing havoc for ourselves anyway. Moreno and Lovren getting in each others way last night for example).

Of course we also need a real captain imo. We currently don't have one.

Moreno and Lovren are the two weakest defenders in the back four.

Picking out isolated incidents with an 18 year old TAA do not compare.

Moreno and Lovren have consistently been poor over a long period of time. You have to look at their play in general and problems they cause and not just conceded goals as no defence is not going to concede goals.

I'm sure if they were upgraded then the defence would be more organised and this would help Matip as he'd be able to focus on his own role better. He is definitely the best defender we have at the moment.

I just don't get why people persist in defending Lovren and Moreno.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

..............

I just don't get why people persist in defending Lovren and Moreno.

Klopp said he's back 100% ......... that's why folks defend him IMO
Moreno is clearly utterly sh1t as a defender but Klopp has done a bit of a U turn on it.

brevity

I think people are fed up of seeing the same defence make the same mistakes.

People are obviously happy Liverpool won but it can be hard to be excited for the next game.

I'd image it's a bit like being an abused partner. There is hope that they will change but then Lovren and Moreno end up running into each other, Mingolet attempts to clear the ball but it hits Henderson in the face to go out off the crossbar for a corner.

murpho999

Augeo wrote: »

Klopp said he's back 100% ......... that's why folks defend him IMO
Moreno is clearly utterly sh1t as a defender but Klopp has done a bit of a U turn on it.

To be honest that comment and his comment last week about the owners deciding if a player is sold worries me.

It appears he does not have full control over transfers but appears happy to promote a different story to the media.

I do not believe that he can really be happy with Moreno.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

..............
I do not believe that he can really be happy with Moreno.

Once Robertson was purchased I presumed we'd never see Moreno at LB again unless both Robertson and Milner were unavailable to play there for whatever reason.

Robertson must be injured to an extent or not match fit. I do hope he's not behind Moreno in Klopp's mind.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

Once Robertson was purchased I presumed we'd never see Moreno at LB again unless both Robertson and Milner were unavailable to play there for whatever reason.

Robertson must be injured to an extent or not match fit. I do hope he's not behind Moreno in Klopp's mind.

Well, he was a "plan A" purchase apparently, thats currently behind what everyone in the fanbase thought would be either sold or the 3rd choice LB. You'd imagine he is not up to speed tactically or something.