SURE - startup funds for entrepeneurs

G-Man

Hello - I am in a position where I will have to take advantage of this and get some of previous paid tax back.. I read through the leaflets and it looks ok.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/initiatives-for-startup-businesses-and-smes/startup-refunds-for-entrepreneurs-sure.aspx

However has anyone here used it, has any accountant you know familiar with it as its now time for me do it.

duffysfarm

i have just made an application for some one for this. to be honest I think that the feed back so far is very poor. there is a number to ring on the website or form and it gets through to a voice mail. I rang revenue to see if they received the application form and they said they hadn't (first time they have ever not received a form from me)
I think that there has not been a lot of take up of this scheme and the revenue are not entirely sure how to deal with it. Also IMO there is a trend of Revenue becoming more and more difficult to get money from as opposed to you owing them money and having to pay within a certain time frame.

G-Man

It sounds like a some revenue things - come up with a scheme and leave the practitioners to self assess it.  Looks like I will have to do the legwork with the accountant.

The biz idea and finance would want to stand on its own two feet before depending on this finance.

duffysfarm

dont get me wrong - its brilliant scheme if it was well implemented.
it reminds me a bit of the R&D scheme that revenue brought out for companies where they were giving companies refunds for research and development activities. applications were made and refunds made or offset against other taxes. then claims were investigated and applicants had to pay back tax and interest and charges for some allowed claims......

dbran

Hi there

I do have some experience with dealing with it and I understand that at present there is a 3 month backlog of applications that are needing to be dealt with. As mentioned by duffysfarm there is an official telephone line that does not appear to be monitored. I have left a lots of messages and none were replied to.

There are also some conditions which need to be adhered to in order for the scheme to apply and I have come across some situations where the set up of the company structure has caused issues.

You also have to convert the money invested into shares which effectively locks it into the entity for the long term and may not be the best senario in all situations.

Best of luck with it.

dbran

G-Man

>>>  ... You also have to convert the money invested into shares which effectively locks it into the entity for the long term..
Yes - the owners money is locked up in the company- but within the company - that investment would be used for legitmate r&d, and other expenses...  Indeed I see a specific clause,that the money must be spent by the company.. It cannot  be retained and liquidated back to the owner after four years...
Now what must be retained, is that the founder who invests the money , must retain ownership of the shares for four years..

duffysfarm

would the investment in shares represent a cost for the purpose of cgt in the future? eg i invest €200,000 in share capital, run the company for 5 years at which point there is €250,000 in the bank. if i were to liquidate the company would the proceeds for cgt purposes be €50,000 (250-200) or would it be €250,000?

dbran

It would be a cost. But the real question is whether it would be subject to income tax or CGT and that would depend on the circumstances and what the rational behind the liquidation was.

But why not leave it as a directors loan and repay the loan when necessary instead of paying a salary.

dbran