Tenant not keeping house clean

TheChizler

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think this was mentioned anywhere. The rent hasn't been raised in 3 years, maybe you read that?

It would be surprising if a place had not deteriorated in that timeframe if it was not being maintained.

They're talking about physical dirt and grime that can be cleaned, not the place looking shabby.

DrPhilG

Yeah I have inspected twice now in just under 3 years. I realise it should be more often but this was my first house as a landlord and only second tenancy so I'm learning from my mistakes.

This guy isn't a bad sort. A bit scatter brained but a decent guy and I've no problem accommodating him, probably more than others would do as I'm sure there are far worse tenants out there. I'm of the belief that you treat others as you would like to be treated.

Respect has to go both ways though.

the_syco

DrPhilG wrote: »

Toilet stained and dirty, shower tray grubby. Cobwebs thick in the corners of the ceiling and that kind of thing.

End his lease, and maybe the next tenant will stop paying rent after two months, and smoke inside, dropping butts everywhere on the floors.

TBH, you don't seem to realise how good you have it now.

pilly

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah I have inspected twice now in just under 3 years. I realise it should be more often but this was my first time as a landlord and I'm learning from my mistakes.

This guy isn't a bad sort. A bit scatter brained but a decent guy and I've no problem accommodating him, probably more than others would do as I'm sure there are far worse tenants out there. I'm of the belief that you treat others as you would like to be treated.

Respect has to go both ways though.

Take it from a fellow LL, you could get a lot worse.

And don't take this the wrong way but you do seem to be looking down at him a bit. You started by saying he was a decent tenant and the place was just a bit dirty and you're saying worse and worse about him as the thread goes on.

As others have mentioned there's a few things here:

1. I've never seen a modern toilet that can not be cleaned. Unless it's cracked or damaged it will not need replacing.

2. Cobwebs? Most men I know have no idea how to tackle cobwebs and certainly won't look after them. Besides, again, cause no permanent damage.

3. In 3 years it doesn't sound like you've had the place painted. You're getting off lightly there, I have to have my property painted at least every 2 years.

It's no harm mentioning it to him but also look on the good side of things, there are tenants out there who are over-holding for 18 months or more and not paying any rent.

DrPhilG

the_syco wrote: »

End his lease, and maybe the next tenant will stop paying rent after two months, and smoke inside, dropping butts everywhere on the floors.

TBH, you don't seem to realise how good you have it now.

Dead God, did you even read the rest of the thread beyond the first post?

DrPhilG

pilly wrote: »

Take it from a fellow LL, you could get a lot worse.

And don't take this the wrong way but you do seem to be looking down at him a bit. You started by saying he was a decent tenant and the place was just a bit dirty and you're saying worse and worse about him as the thread goes on.

As others have mentioned there's a few things here:

1. I've never seen a modern toilet that can not be cleaned. Unless it's cracked or damaged it will not need replacing.

2. Cobwebs? Most men I know have no idea how to tackle cobwebs and certainly won't look after them. Besides, again, cause no permanent damage.

3. In 3 years it doesn't sound like you've had the place painted. You're getting off lightly there, I have to have my property painted at least every 2 years.

It's no harm mentioning it to him but also look on the good side of things, there are tenants out there who are over-holding for 18 months or more and not paying any rent.

I don't mean to be sore on the guy, I just had to explain in a bit more detail about the dirt I'm concerned about because people thought I was losing my mind over a little dust. Trust me I know how much worse it can be. The previous dirty git left a shed full of rubbish that I needed a skip to clear, and a fireplace full of half burned dirty nappies.

1 - I was recently tasked with helping to clean up a house that an elderly guy had moved out of. The toilet probably hadn't been cleaned in 15 years and the buildup of scum, limescale and dirt was impossible. I hired a professional cleaner and they barely made a dent. I don't think this one is anywhere near as bad but it's better to spend 5 minutes cleaning it now than a few hours later.

2 - I'm sorry I mentioned the cobwebs. It adds to the shabby look of the place but agree it isn't relevant in the bigger picture which is why I went into more detail on the loo.

3 - I have had the full exterior and walls painted last year. The inside walls were painted a week before he moved in and are still looking well but I will be planning a paint job in the next year.

I totally agree that there are worse out there, which is why I've tried to be lenient with him over late rent etc and the recent issue with a buildup of rubbish outside that the neighbours complained were attracting rats.

I've had a polite word, hopefully that's all it takes.

pilly

DrPhilG wrote: »

I don't mean to be sore on the guy, I just had to explain in a bit more detail about the dirt I'm concerned about because people thought I was losing my mind over a little dust. Trust me I know how much worse it can be. The previous dirty git left a shed full of rubbish that I needed a skip to clear, and a fireplace full of half burned dirty nappies.

1 - I was recently tasked with helping to clean up a house that an elderly guy had moved out of. The toilet probably hadn't been cleaned in 15 years and the buildup of scum, limescale and dirt was impossible. I hired a professional cleaner and they barely made a dent. I don't think this one is anywhere near as bad but it's better to spend 5 minutes cleaning it now than a few hours later.

2 - I'm sorry I mentioned the cobwebs. It adds to the shabby look of the place but agree it isn't relevant in the bigger picture which is why I went into more detail on the loo.

3 - I have had the full exterior and walls painted. The inside walls were painted a week before he moved in and are still looking well but I will be planning a paint job in the next year.

I totally agree that there are worse out there, which is why I've tried to be lenient with him over late rent etc and the recent issue with a buildup of rubbish outside that the neighbours complained were attracting rats.

I've had a polite word, hopefully that's all it takes.

Yeah, hopefully it does. I think 15 years of build up on a old style toilet is a totally different matter.

I'll be honest if the interior walls still look good then you're doing very well, if you had a family with 3 kids in there they certainly wouldn't be so there's an advantage.

The rubbish I get you on, I honestly don't get what the issue is with tenants and rubbish.

I've had this problem so many times in the past where the tenants just didn't keep the rubbish under control. To tell the truth in the end I decided to pay the bin charges myself and build it into the rent. I think it's just the first thing to be neglected when someone is under pressure. When new people move in I immediately tell them that I'm paying the bin charges and I expect the bins to be left out every single week.

Is there a local bin company or is it a very rural area?

Sam Kade

TiltedBrain wrote: »

I'd be telling you where to go

Then I'd kick you out

DrPhilG

pilly wrote: »

Is there a local bin company or is it a very rural area?

There is a bin company locally. He just never leaves it out.

The previous tenant had resorted to piling it up in the shed and I mean you could barely get in the door of a 12ft by 8ft shed.

Never thought of building it into the rent mind you. Just kinda annoying that I would have to.

freshpopcorn

pilly wrote: »

I immediately tell them that I'm paying the bin charges and I expect the bins to be left out every single week.

Is there a local bin company or is it a very rural area?

I've a relative and there very environmentally friendly and they generate about a fruit and veg bag of rubbish every two weeks. Which we put in out rubbish bin. I think it would be very unfair if there land lord charged the about €400 a year for this!

Dial Hard

Anyone who thinks that a toilet can't be irrevocably dirtied has clearly never dealt with one. It can and does happen.

pilly

freshpopcorn wrote:

I've a relative and there very environmentally friendly and they generate about a fruit and veg bag of rubbish every two weeks. Which we put in out rubbish bin. I think it would be very unfair if there land lord charged the about €400 a year for this!

Maybe but families with kids tend not to be able to do that. I've had 3 previous tenants and not one has managed to leave without leaving rubbish behind.

freshpopcorn

pilly wrote: »

Maybe but families with kids tend not to be able to do that. I've had 3 previous tenants and not one has managed to leave without leaving rubbish behind.

That's a different situation tough!

DrPhilG

Dial Hard wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that a toilet can't be irrevocably dirtied has clearly never dealt with one. It can and does happen.

Damn right.

To be clear, the toilet in this case isn't beyond help. But I'd say it would take a heavy bleach job followed by a few hours of serious elbow grease.

But give it another few years without a clean and we're into serious territory!

pilly

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That's a different situation tough!

No sorry, not tough for me anymore. I do regular checks on my properties now to make sure there's no build up of rubbish. Tenant has no excuse because bin charges are paid.

freshpopcorn

pilly wrote: »

No sorry, not tough for me anymore. I do regular checks on my properties now to make sure there's no build up of rubbish. Tenant has no excuse because bin charges are paid.

That's fine if your tenants are happy!

noodler

I've been harsh at the suggestion of the LL taking money from a landlord to bring a property up to his own subjective level of cleanliness but rubbish in the shed is an absolute travesty and shouldn't be put up with for a multitude of reasons.

Gatling

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jaysus what is this country coming to - This whole culture of entitlement is getting out of control but demanding the right to live like a fúcking pig in someone elses house, are you actually serious!

It's not entitlement it's rights ,

And as long as they are paying rent it's their house to live in as they choose fit

TheChizler

Gatling wrote: »

It's not entitlement it's rights ,

And as long as they are paying rent it's their house to live in as they choose fit

Within reason. The whole debate is about whether the request is reasonable or not.

Id be ashamed of my life, if our landlord, had to ' have a word' about the state of the house.

Bottle of bleach is less than a euro ffs. No need for a limescaled scummy toilet.

Gatling

TheChizler wrote: »

Within reason. The whole debate is about whether the request is reasonable or not.

Personally I don't like the sound of it,
But if the rent is been paid and he's not causing a major issue ie hording or similar with waste he should be left in peace ,
Cob webs and a shower base can be easily sorted but there may be issues at hand we or the landlord isn't aware of ,
If people want cleanliness inspections where do you draw the line

davindub

I don't think its unreasonable to ask a tenant to keep the property in better condition, it is hard to clean away a years worth of grease etc. Better for the tenant and LL to keep on top of it.

Macha

As long as the property is returned in the state it was handed over, minus wear and tear, what is the problem?

I rent in Belgium and in 5 years, I've never had an inspection/visit by any of my landlords and I even have the right to paint the whole apartment a different colour if I so wish. Why no visits? It's stipulates in the contract that it has to be returned in the state it was given to me, minus reasonable wear and tear.

DrPhilG

Macha wrote: »

As long as the property is returned in the state it was handed over, minus wear and tear, what is the problem?

That's what I've been saying, there is no problem in that case.

The problem is that at the rate of muck accumulated do far, another few years might make that unlikely/impossible. So it's in my interest and his to have a quiet word and sort it now.

inforfun

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jaysus what is this country coming to - This whole culture of entitlement is getting out of control but demanding the right to live like a fúcking pig in someone elses house, are you actually serious!

If you hired out a car, or a suit or anything else for that matter - you are FULLY expected to take care of it and give it back in the same condition you got it in. If you don't they WILL charge you for putting it back in that condition - and rightly so.

Nonsense
I rent cars a lot.
When i return it with a couple of empty bottles and empty bags, no one ever has charged me for getting rid of them.

If i bring it back as dirty as if i have been doing some off roading, i am not charged to have the car washed.
If i bring it back driving on 3 wheels... yeah... then i will have a problem

Macha

DrPhilG wrote: »

That's what I've been saying, there is no problem in that case.

The problem is that at the rate of muck accumulated do far, another few years might make that unlikely/impossible. So it's in my interest and his to have a quiet word and sort it now.

Then that's what the deposit is for if it turns out to be the case. You really can't interfere in your tenant's day-to-day life like this.

pilly

inforfun wrote:

Nonsense I rent cars a lot. When i return it with a couple of empty bottles and empty bags, no one ever has charged me for getting rid of them.

inforfun wrote:

If i bring it back as dirty as if i have been doing some off roading, i am not charged to have the car washed. If i bring it back driving on 3 wheels... yeah... then i will have a problem

Simply not true. I worked in car hire for years and a cleaning charge is quite regular.

inforfun

My approx 100 rentals without ever being charged extra after returning a car say it is true.
Now, that said, it were only 3 or 4 different rental agencies, with 2 of them rather sporadic.

DrPhilG

Macha wrote: »

Then that's what the deposit is for if it turns out to be the case. You really can't interfere in your tenant's day-to-day life like this.

I get what you're saying but isn't that a bit of an overreaction?

I dropped him a text saying that he might want to give the bog a scrub as it could end up causing him bother in the long run.

No demands, no ultimatum. If he doesn't bother his arse doing it then fair enough and I won't ask again. But if the place is rancid when he leaves, he has been politely warned.

Hardly what I would call "interfering in his life" in fairness.

davindub

inforfun wrote: »

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jaysus what is this country coming to - This whole culture of entitlement is getting out of control but demanding the right to live like a fúcking pig in someone elses house, are you actually serious!

If you hired out a car, or a suit or anything else for that matter - you are FULLY expected to take care of it and give it back in the same condition you got it in. If you don't they WILL charge you for putting it back in that condition - and rightly so.

Nonsense
I rent cars a lot.
When i return it with a couple of empty bottles and empty bags, no one ever has charged me for getting rid of them.

If i bring it back as dirty as if i have been doing some off roading, i am not charged to have the car washed.
If i bring it back driving on 3 wheels... yeah... then i will have a problem

The practice in residential property has always to hand the property back clean. Dust is one thing but grease, body fats in shower areas, mould can be extremely hard to clean.

Car hire is irrelevant to property. More akin to hotel hire than renting.