Sonic Mania, Informed Opinions!

CiDeRmAn

While I know there's a thread in the General gaming forum on this one, and much discussion over on the Nintendo forum, all praises be upon it, I think the game is pretty significant for the Arcade & Retro enthusiasts (see what I did there).
I reckon it represents a massive change in the way classic games are represented, not some cold cash in of a games compilation or via VC, not some update/reboot with reimagined HD visuals and zero personality, it demonstrates a respect for the source material and an understanding of what made it great in the first place, in that time and on that hardware.

So, I'd love to hear others opinions, especially if you've bought and played it, regardless of format.

I have it on the Switch and it's simply gobsmacking.
Not to lay on the superlatives, but it's hard not to when you've played it, it's really better than I could have possibly expected.

But I'd rather hear your views, pro or con, on the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEfKC4sxTG8

Shapey Fiend

I'm waiting on the Steam release. But yes, it's great to see this new trend of throwback games where they're playing around with retro graphics like 2d sprites, or more lately even low poly models, warping textures and such rather than making everything bland super HD redrawn graphics as a selling point. Instead they're tweaking gameplay to come up with new flavours and making THAT the selling point.

I think the last 5 years or so have been the golden age with all this indie game influence bleeding into everything and it's only getting better all the time. Only thing that's really going to **** it up at this point is if people stop paying for content.

CiDeRmAn

Thanks for posting, I was sure that this release would have attracted more custom from this forum's usual posters.
I think it contrasts strongly with the release of Crash Bandicoot trilogy on the PS4, in terms of how to capitalise on a classic franchise.

CiDeRmAn

sugarman wrote: »

Played in my mates and wasnt overly impressed, its just a rehash of everything before and not really anything new or improved IMO.

I would/prob will buy it, but certainly not for €20.

Well, I bought it for a tenner, just changed my Nintendo account region to Russia, bought the game and then switched back.
Game downloaded and I'm playing it since.
I'd have paid the €20 though, I find it to be pretty impressive.

And the whole point is that it is inspired by what has been before, act as a tribute, rather than the ropey efforts by Sonic Team, their "tribute" amounting to Sonic Generations.

Shapey Fiend

I've heard a few people mention they'd prefer if it was a totally new game rather than blending old stuff with new. If it's a critical hit and sells pretty well I'd guess that's what Christian Whitehead might do next.

eddhorse

Well they tried the new 3D one and fast running and it stank so stuck to what they are good at.

CiDeRmAn

eddhorse wrote: »

Well they tried the new 3D one and fast running and it stank so stuck to what they are good at.

And yet they are releasing a 3D Sonic game as well!
No lessons learned at all.
For the price of developing a 3D Sonic game they could probably fund a whole franchise of classic Sonic games for the next 6 years

Shapey Fiend

Until young children lose interest in hedgehogs with 'tude we'll keep seeing flashy looking new 3D Sonic games. He's still a licence to print money and one of the main reasons Sega are still in business.

Just finished it now. Very impressed overall although I found the final zone a slog and a half.
Now to go back and collect all the chaos emeralds as I finished with the grand total of 1

WeleaseWoderick

Enjoying the game so far but the lack of save after Act 1 in each zone takes a bit of getting used to again compared to modern games that autosave every little bit of progression.

I am absolutely brutal at the blue sphere levels (completed 2 of probably 50 so far).

It's a great throwback title and should be a good reboot point for the Sonic 2D games going forward.

Ultimately though, it is still Sonic at its core and whilst I enjoy playing those games, I do still prefer Nintendo's style of platformers (Mario/DKC/Yoshi).

CiDeRmAn

I suppose, with particular regard to the Mario series, especially the 2D titles, we haven't seen much in the way of innovation in a decade.
The New Super Mario Bros series has been the only real go to place for 2D Mario games and they've really been on a repeat cycle, with more or less interesting results over the years.

Mario Maker is a fantastic idea but was under-seen, living on the unpopular WiiU, and the 3DS version was hamstrung for, well, reasons.
I can only imagine that a new Mario Maker title is incoming and the promise of that series is a near infinite array of Mario levels to be played, in the styles of every major Mario 2D iteration over the decades.
But, while I appreciate the efforts of women and men who possess more creativity than I do, it is still no replacement for a Nintendo original title with surprises and innovation in every corner, as long as it's not NSMB!

So, yes, I would agree that, for many, a Mario game is more attractive prospect than a Sonic one, but I think Sonic Mania gets more things right than NSMB2 did, in terms of preserving what made the series brilliant in the first place.

Perhaps NSMB (DS) and the Luigi Bros title (WiiU) encapsulate the magic effectively, as references to Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 2 respectively.

WeleaseWoderick

Agreed that the NSMB series has gotten a bit "samey" although I'd argue NSMBU is the pinnacle of that particular series.

DKC Tropical Freeze and Yoshi's Wooly World are (in my eyes) better platformers than Sonic Mania. That's not to say there isn't room for all of them, as there most certainly is.

The Super Mario 2D series definitely needs a new graphical style but the core platforming has still been absolutely top notch (I haven't played NSMB2 which I understand is the weakest one).

Retr0gamer

I found NSMB Wii and WiiU to be excellent. Really well designed levels even if the art style is ghastly. I much prefer what Nintendo did with Woolly World and the weirder Kirby platformers.

Nintendo are just the kings of level design, they have a great mentality for introducing mechanics into their levels in three steps. Introduce it in a relatively safe manner, add a bit more danger then really test the player.

Nintendo introduce ideas in a single level that most indie platformers would base an entire game around.

Sonic doesn't really gel with that kind of level design, it's a lot looser and freeform. Sonic is a its worst when it follows the slower Mario formula, think the boring sections of marble zone. It kind of means Sonic will never match the greatness of Nintendo's best but it also means it's a different beast to what Nintendo do and I'd rather that than something half baked like Crash Bandicoot.

Also.... can we get a sequel to Sonic Rush that isn't spoiled like Sonic Rush Adventure was.

Inviere

Never really felt Sonic & Mario were comparable, despite the marketing and rivalry. It's like comparing Doom & Half Life, they're both excellent at what they do, and despite both being fps games, they're wildly different (speaking of Sonic as in the traditional, classic lineup...not the scutter that's come since).

CiDeRmAn

I quite enjoyed the Sonic Advance titles, not the same as the MD originals but still fun.
The Sonic title on the NeoGeo Pocket Color is pretty good too.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I quite enjoyed the Sonic Advance titles, not the same as the MD originals but still fun.
The Sonic title on the NeoGeo Pocket Color is pretty good too.

I found them very mediocre. I'd bundle the Neo Geo Pocket game in with them as it was made by the same team at Dimps and feels like a proto-advance game. I feel the advance games are really lacking in level design, they feel like Sonic CD yet remarkably even less memorable. Plenty of really poor level design and dickmove trap/pit placement.

o1s1n

Was all excited to download this on Steam last night and it's not out yet. Boo!

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Was all excited to download this on Steam last night and it's not out yet. Boo!

Yeah, you 'd have to wonder what that's really about.

Retr0gamer

Probably too many platforms launching at the same time for a small team to deal with. Better to launch on the early at the same time on the platforms with the whining man babies than the platform with the whining man babies that are too busy playing Battlegrounds to care that it's late.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Probably too many platforms launching at the same time for a small team to deal with. Better to launch on the early at the same time on the platforms with the whining man babies than the platform with the whining man babies that are too busy playing Battlegrounds to care that it's late.

Wut?

Half of me is wondering were they hoping pc players would say feck it & just buy it for a console, to massage the console sale figures for whatever reason...maybe because it'll undoubtedly be cheaper on pc sooner rather than later

Retr0gamer

Inviere wrote: »

Wut?

Half of me is wondering were they hoping pc players would say feck it & just buy it for a console, to massage the console sale figures for whatever reason...maybe because it'll undoubtedly be cheaper on pc sooner rather than later

Releasing on a platform requires more administrative hard work than you think and there's also unforeseen issues like gamebreaking bugs you have to account for. Launching on a handful of platforms piecemeal makes it easier for a small team to support that work.

Lunching late on PC is the lesser of two evils. The delay is a pain in the ass but there has been no uproar over it. Now imagine if it launched on Xbox, Switch but was delayed a month on PS4. The platform holder also would not be very impressed.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Releasing on a platform requires more administrative hard work than you think and there's also unforeseen issues like gamebreaking bugs you have to account for. Launching on a handful of platforms piecemeal makes it easier for a small team to support that work.

True true

Lunching late on PC is the lesser of two evils. The delay is a pain in the ass but there has been no uproar over it. Now imagine if it launched on Xbox, Switch but was delayed a month on PS4. The platform holder also would not be very impressed.

Ah yeah, I'm not put out by it (poor o1s1n is though ) as I wasn't going to be buying it on launch anyway. I'll pick it up nearer to Christmas regardless.

Retr0gamer

I went looking for it yesterday thinking it would be released, didn't realise I'd already bought it! Still a bit peeved its not out. I mean what do Sega expect me to do in my free time! I went back and played FF12 and Atelier Meruru in protest.

DinoRex

It's a good but suffers from being a Sonic Hedghog game, and those games have always been a bit naff. I just hate the lack of control you have over your jumps, especially when you're stuck down in a pit and can only move slowly to try and get out. It does some fun stuff with the bosses and the bonus stages though.

The Switch version is a little bit janky. All the system buttons like home, power and screen grab all become very unresponsive. Also the scrolling sometimes jerks into position disconcertingly.

Hopefully the slight delay for pc will help clean up some of the bugs in the game, I've come across two glitches on the ps4 version that forced me to restart the entire zone.

johnny_ultimate

PC gamers can entertain themselves with superior fare such as Fidel: Dungeon Rescue instead

Mania is grand. The new levels have lots of cool stuff, but I don't really get how the game benefits from more or less directly copying existing acts though, minor remixes or not. It adds filler to a game that would be much stronger without the straight copy acts. Outside of empty nostalgia, what's the benefit in forcing players through content they've played before? Then Act 2 arrives, and the game sings again. It's an odd dynamic.

And yeah, it's still a Sonic game, for better and worse. Great when it's sending you on a spectacular rollercoaster, a pain the hoop when they slow you down. There's one part in Flying Battery zone that simply requires you to jump from platform to platform... and moments like that are where the limitations of the came come into view. In some ways it feels like the new levels are as good as Sonic can be... but there's fundamental limitations with the design school that it feels like designers can't help but run into frequently.

PaulPriest

My son still creates with Mario Maker daily. He'd rather do that than play Minecraft (though only just!).
It never ceases to amaze me the creativity of some of the stuff he does, and the diabolical levels. Shame they aren't much fun
It was through this that he got into NSMBU, and is just at the end of the Mario now (and working his way through Luigi bros).

SMM has seen a new lease of life via CEmu on PC - people are reskinning it (SMB2), and building tooling for uploading packs outside Nintendo's walled garden.

CiDeRmAn

Leaving out slopes on the title limited it, perhaps they wanted to hobble the tools do you couldn't make an entire have campaign it of it.
Perhaps they'll do better next time.

Shapey Fiend

Been playing this for about an hour and I love it already. It's got the semi-sprawling level design of S&K/S3 but the two act structure and how different each act within a zone is really helps to reduce that sense of trudge and disorientation I experienced with those games. Having a boss on every act seems slightly overkill but most of them so far have been nicely designed so I can't really complain. I was expecting to be a bit annoyed at this game because I like Sonic 2 and can't really stick the other games for terribly long but the level design, level gimmicks and graphical flair really is hitting all the right buttons right now. It's tricky enough too, but in a fair sort of way.

Josey Wales

I've put a few hours into it now and I think the only thing it has going for it is the art style. I think they did a great job on the art direction in this game. Some of the environments look great and so do the characters.

I just don't enjoy the game itself at all and I find myself forcing my way through. It makes me think I must have been deluding myself in my younger days to think Sonic was a good game. It is fun when you are going fast but it happens so rarely and you find yourself having to do lots of subpar platforming.

There are so many points in each level where you could never see an enemy or environmental hazard coming and you end up losing your rings. Plus one of the bosses just seems flat out broken and the only way to win is pure luck. It is buggy too. I was playing against the boss in the ice environment and he froze me and I slid out of the screen to Eggman. The game froze and I had to turn it off. When I turned it back on it put me on the next level. Weird.

I'm glad I got it cheaply on the Russian eShop.

WeleaseWoderick

Josey Wales wrote: »

I've put a few hours into it now and I think the only thing it has going for it is the art style. I think they did a great job on the art direction in this game. Some of the environments look great and so do the characters.

I just don't enjoy the game itself at all and I find myself forcing my way through. It makes me think I must have been deluding myself in my younger days to think Sonic was a good game. It is fun when you are going fast but it happens so rarely and you find yourself having to do lots of subpar platforming.

There are so many points in each level where you could never see an enemy or environmental hazard coming and you end up losing your rings. Plus one of the bosses just seems flat out broken and the only way to win is pure luck. It is buggy too. I was playing against the boss in the ice environment and he froze me and I slid out of the screen to Eggman. The game froze and I had to turn it off. When I turned it back on it put me on the next level. Weird.

I'm glad I got it cheaply on the Russian eShop.

Exact same thing happened to me on that boss!

The boss on the 2nd Act of the oil level is beyond frustrating and I've kinda given up on the game now after having to restart from Act 1 of that level so many times to try beat him.